The Floodgate Drama 

That's what chargebacks are for.

The real drama.

This is what concerns me about these promo codes Yugitubers. Never know if the company they're working with is actually legit and or worth the risk

Tbh generic floodgates aren't even an issue, it's quantity and the impact of them. Legacy of the Duelist is a generic floodgate for example. The problem is that they see play when floodgates end up doing too much for too little. You don't play floodgates when they are doing fair things most of the time, you play them when they just shut down your opponent, or they have a large impact in other ways. When Jinzo came out, Jinzo was great for the game and what Jinzo did was fair in large part because the game was slow enough and removing Jinzo wasn't some difficult task, but he did stop a ton of impactful cards.

Crimson dragon is fine. Stop being a cry baby the card is balanced and can easily be disrupted by imperm/veiler.

@@HotRed00you’re not going to Veiler on your turn.

Nah the problem is calamity. If it gets banned what do you use crimson for? Shooting quazar?

⁠@@Roado_ you are right i don’t really use veiler i always assumed it was on both players turns

See a lot more bbs and hand traps aren’t spell pops in most deck I know it’s tuff but it’s the truth

Barely anyone is saying that though. Both floodgates and all the shit Snake-Eyes has been up to is toxic and unhealthy for the game.

Sideboard

@@JeffreyGaynor-kj4smbrain dead reply. There is no sideboard game 1, game 1 is bullshit and uninteractive because of the floodgates. How much backrow removal do you need to put in the side deck for you to counter floodgates? It ur answer is “not that much” then that just means you have EVEN LESS of a chance to draw the cards you sided in

Tell me you know nothing about game design without telling me you know nothing about game design... Floodgates don't need to have massive downsides for the one playing them, nor should most of them honestly. Floodgates should absolutely not have worse penalties for the one playing them than they do for their opponent. The one playing them is using their resources towards do so and already had to deal with the deck building cost of them. Floodgates should not effectively read that you win the game as the norm. And the VAST majority do not in practice as dramatic as people are about them, most floodgates in any meta are bad, and you don't see them. The reality is most can be reasonably removed, when floodgates become meta it's usually because of problems in the game making them good, while sometimes the card was made for a different era. The barrier statues were HEALTHY to exist for a long time for example. They offered a reasonable compromise, if you want to swarm the field this turn back when such a thing was rare you are going to (likely) need to first go to combat and thus you can build a scary board but you cannot kill me with it. They became a problem due to the game being much faster and based on swarming than when they were initially made. Floodgates don't need any extreme penalties, they need to be proportional. The problem is people expect damn near everything to basically say you win the game. If a floodgate doesn't destroy your opponent... You probably won't run it in the modern day because of how fast the game is and. Jinzo is a floodgate, Jinzo has no maintenance cost or anything... But its from an era when the game was slow enough that you could wait for your turn to remove it. Like the reality is a lot that are problems are only actually problems because how fast the game is now and deciding that boards having several negates after the first turn is fine ... Which are actually problematic.

​@@nykthosacolyte5710 No, floodgates do need a cost if players are just going to build around them. The whole point behind them is BOTH players were negatively effect by the floodgate, not just the one who is having it flipped on them. Jinzo doesn't carry a cost because it was implied both players would be using traps and that was true at the time. It's a two way street that hurts both players. If someone is playing a floodgate today like TCBOO, Skill Drain, or Rivalry, it's because it has little to no downsides for them. If that is the case then they need some kind of unavoidable downside or maintenance cost. Also for the record, multiple negate boards are just as bad as floodgates.

No it doesn't 😅i

Duel links ban list system is awful

I'm curious, how? I don't see how this works at all unless you limit every floodgate to one, but at that point banning them is just easier.

Floodgates serve a legitimate purpose, the problem people actually have is when floodgates become meta. Take the statues for example. Once upon a time, they served a very simple and fair function. Making it so decks like Black wings or Six Sams couldn't immediately kill you. If you wanted to combo off you would almost always have to do so after using your battle phase. Floodgates weren't autowin for most of YGO. They were meaningful disruptions that didn't even always make the cut. Summon limit served a real purpose back in the day, and many decks could play through or around the majority of them. Anti Spell Fragrance, Secret Village, etc were all fine or even good for the game. Floodgates are a balancing mechanism. There is a reason a lot of old ones are what becomes popular. There is an aspect of game design a lot of people don't realize exists... Contingency design. If you make a new mechanic, you want there to be at least one card that effectively counters the design if it ends up being too strong. Yu-Gi-Oh had to repeatedly do that in different ways over time. And most were not good when printed... They kept their potential to be insane in the future. The consequences of YGO being non-rotating is contingency design will always risk being a problem... But not making such cards risks YEARS of mechanics being an issue or having to ban an astronomical amount of cards because by the time you see a new design direction is causing a problem, you have several sets with it already made they just aren't known to the public yet. So you include a card in an early set that looks bad but has a niche to counter the issue. However, overtime the niche card eventually might become problematic if the mechanic becomes stronger than initially intended... And then it's only 1 card you need to hit after it did it's purpose, and also unlike with designing an answer which can take years, banning an answer that became too good with time can be done relatively quickly.

@@nykthosacolyte5710 even then the statues still show what I mean, a mono attribute deck that corresponds to said attribute isn't going to care much.

I think Floodgates have a place in yugioh but only when they're awnserable with engine and not an auto-win button. Pachycephalo is a badly designed floodgate because the only way to awnser it is either through battle, non-engine or if you're playing one of the few decks that can out it without special summoning. And most of these are either too specific or too easy for the floodgate user to get around with supporting cards. But Thalia from MTG is a well designed floodgate. Yes it's annoying that your cards are more expensive but they're still allowed to be played if you're willing to take the price. (Yes the fact that i had to pick a card from a different game to make this argument speaks volumes about yugioh floodgate design)

@@nykthosacolyte5710 Then your argument has kinda pointed out they have lost their purpose, because yeah they used to be a disruption, but not aren't functioning as intended to disrupt the enemy, right now they act as many disruptions in one card the value is to high they are no longer a disruption they are the game itself. Meta or not a disruption should feel like a well that sucks not a guess I lose situation like how getting ash'd sucks but most modern decks can play through it, and interaction in general should be back and forth managing both sides limited points of interaction. my view is if they want these types of effects especially on generic traps, print them as none continuous traps that do that one type of interaction at the moment, such as for example a new skill drain that negates all monsters currently on the board when it's flipped so you need to wait for say a chain to activate it since those monsters get their effects back immediately after. or Rivalry of warlords have it do the check once then it goes to the graveyard a disruption one that can be really devastating if done at the right time but now it's back how it should be a disruption a annoyance that is interactive and users players skill and knowledge to know when the activate.

@@skormfuse I largely don't disagree, modern YGO has reached a point where the escalation has made it so many floodgates are either way too strong, or are seen as unplayable because they don't devastate your opponents completely. Like Legacy of the Duelist is honestly a FINE floodgate. It says extra deck monsters can still use their effects but can't attack the turn they are summoned and limits backrow set-up (and even does a good bit more)... There comes a point where a floodgate is too good and should get hit, and when a floodgate isn't a tech piece but a staple... Things need to be getting hit, sometimes it's what's making the floodgate see play because of ONE deck being a problem, but when it's because it ruins the game for many decks... It's the floodgate that needs to go.

2-3 turns is an eternity in modern yugioh, plenty of floodgates like d-barrier and shifter last 1-2 turns and are still game winningly strong with basically no outs apart from your deck choice just happening to not be weak to them.

If you're talking about master duel, it's because of the BO1 nature of the format, dam near every side deck has harpies or cosmic cyclone. Also people Hate the statues even tho they're monsters.

Literally every side deck for the past several years has allocated 3-6 slots for backrow removal and that's ON TOP of extra deck outs like Knightmare Phoenix style cards. You're unironically saying "just draw the out" when every side is on triple cosmic right now for Tenpai.

@@amethonys2798 and even tenpai themselves, an example of a deck that should just about be the absolute furthest opposite of a stun deck abuses floodgates like heat wave and shifter for cheap and sacky wins AND they are floodgates with few to no out even to speak

Imperial order have this plethora (self destruct floodgate) actually And its still more toxic than your average avaible floodgate

Oh and Knightmare gryphon

Nah floodgates are inherently cringe the only reason people think searchable ones are fine is because the decks that play them aren't common enough in this particular meta for it to really seep in how cringe they are the few times if any you face them. Colossus is "fine" now because thundra isn't meta anymore but that doesn't make it fair, same with protos, barrier statue, calamity, vfd etc. etc. Just because the decks that would play them aren't good anymore doesn't mean they should exist, rogue decks shouldn't need to resort to floodgating to compete it's just another lazy bandaid and konami's fault for printing them in the first place

​@@jimtsap04floodgates are an inherently necessary part of game design for card games. This is something that becomes apparent if you look at "logical extreme" examples, spirit reaper is a floodgate against beat down. But by the time it was made, it was already expected you weren't simply running vanilla beat down. Most traditional floodgates however, are simply contingency design given too much time. The barrier statues WERE good design, there is a reason they were considered trash for years. Over time their penalty became more impactful and "trade your battle phase" became a bigger problem. When most decks aren't special summoning several times in one turn, such cards are fine. During the synchro and Xyz eras they got to be okay and material if not needed... But with time they eventually became too strong.

@@nykthosacolyte5710 when I say floodgates the kind of cards I'm referring to should be painfully obvious and it's not freaking spirit reaper, you can broaden the definition enough to include all sorts of unrelated cards but that doesn't affect the root of my point about the specific niche of cards that come to everyone's mind when they hear the word floodgate being inherently unhealthy in a modern landscape. The barrier statues may or may not have been good design at the time, same with gozen, rivalry, tcboo and even maxx c, but like you said today as the game has progressed they have become increasingly problematic and it's clear they are neither wanted not needed anymore and their presence only/primarily serves to hurt the game. It's not like we must flip a switch and everything remotely considered a floodgate get deleted instantly but we should definitely have a more active approach of recognising when floodgates(and even combo cards for that matter) become unhealthy and weed them out as they present themselves cause it's clear right now there are way too many that cross the line of generic/powerful/one sided/non interactive/low-no counterplay floodgates that are legal to the point where almost every deck can and does fit at least one floodgate they can side in(or even main deck like shifter) that auto wins against a lot of matchups for minimal risk provided you luck out and draw it, in fact we just saw this happen with snake eye relying on auto win floodgates like summon limit and anti spell game 2 and 3 and konami recognised the problem and addressed them in the most recent banlist, we need more of that in the future.

@@jimtsap04 I did mention the "logical extreme" argument with things like spirit reaper for a reason lol my point is it's not really that floodgates are truly a problem to exist but there is point that they are fine and a point that they aren't. Legacy of the Duelist has two floodgates built into it, the card is fine. Honestly a LOT of floodgates would be fine if they were restricted to being activated at the start of your MP 1 and hit both players for a full turn cycle. Some decks could still leverage them, but it kills off the ability of decks to set up massive boards and then use them to further limit your ability to answer them.

@@nykthosacolyte5710 sure maybe that can work for some cards(tho heat wave is start of mp1 and symmetrical and still pretty busted so it's just a matter of a deck coming around that can abuse it like tenpai in this case) and obviously not eeevery floodgate is banworthy, but my overall point is a response to op and other people that defend the main floodgates widely discussed and played, so I'm saying every one of those floodgates in particular are inherently cringe and have no place in the modern game for all the reasons discussed. Explaining semantics can sometimes be a bit boring(like floodgates) but hopefully I got my point accross.

I think the major difference is that a combo with multiple negates at least presents the illusion of playing, rather than straight up telling you that you can't play.

Stun players after they find out people hate those boards too:

​@AllThingsEntertaining that is the major difference. It's actually why I hate it a lot more than floodgates because it's not as easy for some people to get that. It's why to extent I don't play modern with most friends because I feel like casual is dead and I need to be breathing down their neck every moment to be able to play so I only play with my friends who I know primarily testing for competitive.

In magic floodgates are very different, much softer and easier to play around, it’s like all your opponents come in tapped or something like that. Talk to any magic player when you hit them with any flood gates that affect lands like stasis and such and it’s the same reaction if not worse than yugioh lol.

Huh????

Its because Yugioh ends in 2 turns. You set up, your opponent either breaks it or doesn't. 10% of the time you go into a grind game. Repeat. Links accelerated the game beyond repair.

​@jefffregly20 laughs in Winter Orb Static orb. Thorn of Amethyst Chalice of the Void. Stony Silence And hatebears like Collector Ouphe, either Thalia. Ethersworn Canonist and many, many more. Casual players just don't play these kind of stax cards because they can lead to miserable nongames just like in Yugioh

@@jefffregly20 I mean that's simply not true. There's cards that a free that have a macro cosmos effect. Blood moon too. There's a ton of staxy blow out cards. Some are lighter and others are crippling. Same as YGO. Also since there's no mana in YGO the floodgates have to be more powerful.

Whats fun about them?

I never understood this take. Floodgates are good against midrange deck too and not just combos.

Man I love the strong ass combo deck of chemicritter.

You just proved your own point wrong, combo decks still run rampant so they're checking jack shit, like the tired maxx c debate, the solution to unhealthy combo decks isn't an equally unhealthy band aid that combo decks themselves often benefit from, it's the BANLIST

This is such a horrible take. This isn't even true because combo decks literally side in floodgates nowadays. In fact, most decks do to get a free round after going first.