on one hand I agree with you, not to mention that a big reason that this mod would be given to controllers is to make the boxx's legality case stronger. However, I think more power in the hands of the players leads to a more fun experience playing and watching the game and will overall improve everyone's smash experience. you also have to consider that making techs easier is already legal via controller notches, giving players advantages over each other by paying a lot of money to have it done. fuck that! leeeegaaaaliiiize! :)
your "making the game easier" argument doesn't work without addressing the fact that many people have perfect angle notches on their controllers already :P most people agree you can't ban them notches without banning shield drop notches as well, which would be pretty dumb imo
Eduardo Aguilar tbh he got bored of this series after Melee. He didn't even really want to make Brawl. He's not really a guy that likes to be held down by a series for more than 2 games. That, and he hates the majority of the Melee player base.
Roy Elibe more than just fighting games. melee inputs per second are almost as high as top level starcraft, and they don't have analog inputs to deal with
RiNChi・TaiRaa yea but its not just about the apm. So many possible scenarios you cant practice for them all and so many different angles to tackle a certain scenario.. idk i just think starcraft is more complex
This guys dedication to do anything and everything it would take to play melee again, including apparently making traditional controllers as reliable as the one he has to use, is absolutely incredible. This is obsession.
This is hands down the best news I've heard all year, and your presentation on the how & why is flawless. I'm going to be offering free installations in my local scene to try and boost this.
Abraham Hamidi I haven't gotten mine in the mail yet. If you're sure you programmed it right, double check you got all the solder joints right, including on the controller, the nano, and the cable. check to make sure your solder joints aren't touching each other. check to make sure you don't have a short somewhere along the wires. if it still isnt working, PM me, and put some pics on imgur. I'll see if I can spot anything.
Abraham Hamidi ah yes, I got one on amazon that had a bunch of pins attached which I also tried to remove, perhaps it's the same problem. Which nano did you end up getting?
Fantastic video Hax. Clean, thorough, but still concise explanations with perfect visual aids, all while presented in an objective, logical manner, despite how frustrated I'm sure you are with the topic by this point. Great work.
you're a legend dude. no other fighting game has the kind of nuances found in melee. you can say git gud but with inconsistent controller performance that point is moot.
YoYoNinjaBoy I still feel those fixes are a bit excessive. Here is my full stance if you care to read it. (if by some miracle you've seen this before, I do apologize lol) The TL;DR is that a lot of these fixes goes beyond the scope of controller fixes and start to become game changers in my humble perspective. The root of the problem is the excessive range changes in which ideal input is regarded. (There were changes which I did find truly viable*, I'll mention those towards the bottom.) 10:20 , you should make it that it is possible to hit 1.0 on every controller, but not stretch out that hit zone to all the values, just the ones dead in the middle. This is fine for the diminutive nature of the c stick. The same goes with 14:16. This goes beyond a controller fix to entirely new gaming implement. That mid range is also a bit excessive, it ranging all the way from the dead zone to the drop line. In my opinion it should only be a slight extended pad about a third of the suggested distance above the drop line, with perhaps a slight bit of leniency dead in the middle. I know it is unlikely, but if someone wanted to shield angle downwards whilst still on a platform, that is no longer a possibility. 17:17 The last solution was an elegant fix. However I still think the application is a tad bit excessive. While I will admit a single point for Perfection makes it unviable for any sort of practical application, I will say that that point is perfection for a reason. It has higher risks, but yields incredibly high rewards. It is a goal to strive for, and the closer to that goal you become, the more Awe inspiring the results will be. By making such a generous window for perfection, you compromise all the skill, effort, and dedication that usually warrents these results, this dedication being the soul of the game. This literally makes perfection easier to reach, which is a game changer, not a controller fix. ***There are viable aspects however that I do believe are practical. The dash back fix is not only a minimal and logical fix, it is an intuitive one as well as the the action of turning around is generally given a connotation of slower movement. (I wonder if you can make the game concider range as well for these given inputs to increase accuracy of intent? 13:47 I do appreciate the ability to recalibrate your notche positions. Instead of making Perfection easier to attain, it sets it so that that goal of perfection is unique and tailored to every individual, as well as every individual controller. (I also don't mind the extra pad of leniency, as it makea up for unaccounted controller degradation.) I believe these changes are a step in the right direction, but some of these change can keep it from becoming standard. It's time to dial back those changes, so that this mod can become what it always intended to be in the first place: a controller fix.
@@MelloCello7 I know this old but if you can be a year late I can be two years late! While I agree that nigh unattainable perfection can create incredible moments and reward the most daring players, there's a difference between hard and jank. Pretty much all the changes seem to be stuff that was already achievable with SOME controllers (except the huge shield drop range which I admit is questionable) , as long as you're willing to pay. There's a big difference between messing up a risky angle because of skill and messing up a risky angle because the notch wore out or because you couldn't afford to get notches. I think every controller should be as good as the best controller (this would require controllers to be better than any existing controller for example UCF gives 100% dashbacks even though no controller could do this so that everyone was on a level playing field) otherwise there's a paywall to the highest level of competition. Controllers should have a minimal effect on the outcome of games. Hot Take: Melee will eventually stop using Nintendo GC controllers. If Melee is in it for the long haul controllers need to be consistent, cheap, and readily available. I don't think Nintendo can be trusted to offer this in the long run.
Great project and stance! I would have liked to see Magus' code become adopted, and I had been predicting that if that doesn't happen, there will inevitably be electrical mods to emulate it. There are people in our community who refuse to have ever any changes done to the game's code and to our controllers, but if this conservatism gets to the point where it hurts people through increased hand pain or frustration and money loss from hunting controllers - and we have been at that point for a long time already - I don't think there's any other fitting way to describe these people than as backwards. Since I haven't seen any TOs except for me adopt Magus' code, I'll also be using this mod in my main controller so I can smash turn consistently even at other people's tournaments.
1 way to support it I guess is that once the infrastructure becomes available just stop producing Notch controllers for players. If the notches dry up professional players may all shift over to this better solution.
once he did the shield drop spiel, I was a little iffy, "what if I wanna just move my shield", or "this might mess up me wanting spot dodge", then he said this will only be taken into effect when L/R are depressed; HAX YOU GENIUS, always thinking about every option 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏. Although it should count for Z as well, I'm fully on board with this, amazing work
I was thinking the same thing, that each fix would make some weird ass changes that might mess with other tech. Instead, all the solutions are so elegant that I doubt any of them could provide any sort of disadvantage to other aspects in melee. Literally a 5 dollar controller upgrade. Hopefully tournaments adopt a clause to testify to this mod's legality quick instead of people going on shitty rants againt cheating and trying to disallow it.
this is a total life-saver. gamecube controllers are getting pricier and pricier, and just the general treasure hunt for a good one is nearly impossible for an average player. this makes your crappy controller into a tournament worthy one, without having to spend 60-100 bucks for a mod. even while it runs the risks of easier tampering through arduino, i believe it does more good than harm. thanks hax!
I do really think that this controller would be amazing for the community as a whole, but the one thing that stuck out to me in your talk was that the controller would be legal if and only if it did not allow macros. I think that is a very reasonable rule and should be enacted but I think allowing such controllers to be spread throughout the community along with people personalizing their own coded GC controller I think things could easily get out of control. I mean if say this product did catch on then before a tournament match people would need to have their melee controllers checked to make sure their personalized code meets the no-macro specifications. That being said I truly would love one of these controllers since I can only shield drop on the right side and because I too have had to go through a struggle to get my hands on GC controllers in the past. I think this is the right step for the SSBM community and i believe that this controller issue NEEDS to be taken seriously so that we can begin to evolve our own game, what we have now is absolutely ridiculous.
Recommended video: Ancient Technology So Advanced We Still Don't Understand It I mean, that's related I suppose. Also, this is a wonderful idea. Please push this.
You’re the man Hax! Love watching you in tournaments and all you’ve contributed with 20xx in general. I have bad arthritis and a bunch of health issues and really appreciate you working and everyone working on adaptive controllers that both offer just a fair playing field for everyone looking to be competitive regardless of their needs. Not sure if you’ve looked into Microsoft’s adaptive controllers at all but they might be interested in investing in helping to create better controllers and mods like these for just everyday users and people who need other features to help with disabilities. Might be some money in it for you too and better fixes for the box and future remotes with their help.
Am super in support of this. Actually impressed with addressing the difference between a proper advantage and an unfair advantage (like a hypothetical multi-shine macro).
Damn, a nice step in the road to people accepting the B0XX, keep it up! Ill support this in the effort of increasing hand health, hats of to you! PS: Hope this and the box are legal, I would love to install this in my local scene, maybe Ill start.
Hax Money, Who art in Melee Hallowed be Thy Shines; Thy perfect ledgedashes come, Thy tech skill be done, on Earth as it is in 20XX. Give us this day our daily chaingrabs, and forgive us our tech flubs, as we waveshine those who play Brawl against us; and lead us not into Tr4sh but deliver us from ZeRo. Battlefield.
I never knew the specifics of shield dropping before. funny enough, I can only shield drop straight down; performed by moving my control stick at a certain speed downward.
The only change I would suggest is allowing for some room to tilt your shield straight down before shield dropping. Maybe 50% of that area. I think it would still be pretty consistent.
Lol I never knew that backdashing was more or less random. I got super lucky since my controller has a ~ 95% success rate after testing. I had always noticed I've had issues backdashing when using other people's controllers but I always was told no johns as per usual.
I wonder how people would feel about using it for improving powershield, diagonal c-stick to force nair (disable greystick for a frame), disabling the center stick region for moonwalks, a delayed jump to allow hand travel for perfect aerials, and other misc. stuff like that. Nothing stupid like upB cancel macro for doc, rapidfire SDI, or rapid pika jabs, but where to we draw the line?
I don't have notches and I can shield drop by barely pressing down while on a platform. I don't have to use any notches or anything, I just press straight down a little.
You solved one of my two problems with mod controllers - still a little fuzzy on how this is legal since there is no controller in existence with all of these. I might do this to my backup controller though.
Well my problem then is what is to stop you from changing the code on the Arduino to give an unnoticeable advantage over the B0XX? This would kind of do exactly the opposite and make cheating easier than it has ever been if we just allow Arduinos without being able to check the code, which would make the anti-cheat process even harder. (That is unless we want to set up 60fps hand cams, which we should if the Arduino mod is legalized)
The TL;DR is that a lot of these fixes goes beyond the scope of controller fixes and start to become game changers in my humble perspective. The root of the problem is the excessive range changes in which ideal input is regarded. (There were changes which I did find truly viable*, I'll mention those towards the bottom.) 10:20 , you should make it that it is possible to hit 1.0 on every controller, but not stretch out that hit zone to all the values, just the ones dead in the middle. This is fine for the diminutive nature of the c stick. The same goes with 14:16. This goes beyond a controller fix to entirely new gaming implement. That mid range is also a bit excessive, it ranging all the way from the dead zone to the drop line. In my opinion it should only be a slight extended pad about a third of the suggested distance above the drop line, with perhaps a slight bit of leniency dead in the middle. I know it is unlikely, but if someone wanted to shield angle downwards whilst still on a platform, that is no longer a possibility. 17:17 The last solution was an elegant fix. However I still think the application is a tad bit excessive. While I will admit a single point for Perfection makes it unviable for any sort of practical application, I will say that that point is perfection for a reason. It has higher risks, but yields incredibly high rewards. It is a goal to strive for, and the closer to that goal you become, the more Awe inspiring the results will be. By making such a generous window for perfection, you compromise all the skill, effort, and dedication that usually warrents these results, this dedication being the soul of the game. This literally makes perfection easier to reach, which is a game changer, not a controller fix. ***There are viable aspects however that I do believe are practical. The dash back fix is not only a minimal and logical fix, it is an intuitive one as well as the the action of turning around is generally given a connotation of slower movement. (I wonder if you can make the game concider range as well for these given inputs to increase accuracy of intent? 13:47 I do appreciate the ability to recalibrate your notche positions. Instead of making Perfection easier to attain, it sets it so that that goal of perfection is unique and tailored to every individual, as well as every individual controller. (I also don't mind the extra pad of leniency, as it makea up for unaccounted controller degradation.) I believe these changes are a step in the right direction, but some of these change can keep it from becoming standard. It's time to dial back those changes, so that this mod can become what it always intended to be in the first place: a controller fix.
Did everything as the instructions said and my arduino light from the controller lights up but the controller just doesn't work it seems. I am using an official Wii U adapter too.
@9:45 when he's talking about getting the elusive 1.0 on the joystick, it looks like the 1.0 is only achieved because it is already being compensated by starting at .0125
This is amazing, I'm usually dead set against the box, for three reasons : Not everybody can get it / It's expensive ; it requires to relearn everything on it ; it breaks physics laws due to the stick being, well, a stick, meaning for example you can't repeatedly input down up down up on it with your finger at high speed. This solution addresses all of these problems. I think it should be noted however that SDI will be significantly easier to do, since "continuous SDI" sideways is alternating the up and down perfect angles in this direction. With this perfect angle mod, I believe SDIs will be more numerous and lengthier, and it might affect the gameplay. Although this could be easily forgiven compared to the positive aspects of this solution, especially since an opponent with the same tools will have better wavedashes and a slightly better dash.
would it be wrong to basically make one of my L/R buttons a digital input with this? people already do this anyway by removing the spring in the L/R button to make power shielding a bit better
The only thing I can get behind here is the dash back thing.... For everything else in terms of shield drops, angles and so on... It's just a matter of learning your controller... I've gone through something like 7 controllers since I started competing in 2012 and I've learned to reliably shield drop with all of them.... Some were easier to do it with than others, but then they would be bad at other things so it kinda balances itself out in that way....
I like the ability for the user to rewrite some minor things to their own preferences too, and accounting for shield drop gate degradation by updating it. Really well thought out. Hopefully this helps to legalise the B0XX. I personally have an acquired hand injury that kind of necessitates the use of something other than a GameCube controller for extended practice, so I'd love to use one of those to get back into the grind.
Great video. I'm completely behind you on this. This really has me thinking about how competitive melee can be improved without altering the game. I personally think the hardware solution potential is amazing and might be less frowned upon my nintendo but I really have no idea. Would it be possible to program UCF into adapters and use those for tournaments? I was so inspired by your videos and wish the best for you at summit!
9:54 it's worth noting that the controller's dead zone is much closer seems either like its a controller thats been modded (it's possible) or a controler with an off center neutral to begin with
Amazing. Always well-articulated and well-thought out arguments. The current solution may not be perfect, but the idea of standardizing the performance of GC controllers is something that needed to be at least talked about. The scavenging and upkeep/maintenance fees of just being able to play at a competitive level (for controllers/mods) is ridiculous and hurts the game's accessibility.
Took me about six tries and many flea market treasure hunts but my controller must be godlike. I can sheilddrop every time and I never do the lost my wallet dash dance.
worth putting it out there that you can also shield drop by going straight to the side and going down slowly over the exact angle he was saying this is how armada and axe do it which eliminates a lot of searching hax claims is mandatory
Regarding perfect angles for wavedashing (14:32), I think this point is actually demonstrates some of the beauty in the GCC: If you want more, you'll have to risk more.
I know this is quite old but I'm considering getting into the competitive melee scene and finding a "good" controller seems impossible to me and it's almost to the point where im considering giving up before I even start. Either this project or someone creating reasonably priced custom controllers (sub $100) is a must for the future of melee and heck even PM.
My shitty, yet really comfortable, MadCatz controller hits 1.00 on all four sides and I believe hits .6875 on the diagonals. I know next to nothing about Melee, but this mod looks interesting. I'm down to soldering one of these up. What I'm curious is what replacement joysticks (not the caps) are recommended? I've seen 360 & PS3 recommended, but that seems strange.
using hax's code I have issues with shield dropping in netplay when I join a game. back dash and wavedash is fine but shield drop (both axe and straight down) have no effect. If anyone know what cause this and possibly a fix lemme know
Someone needs to design a metal clip in stick casing. So we can grind back the plastic then slip in a metal face with perfect notches for your character. That way it will not ware off. Thats something someone should do.
Does this mean if I use this type of modded controller, I can't ever use an unofficial adapter? I have a mayflash 4 port so.... I just need clarification
