Even though I don't really play him anymore, Potemkin will always have my heart for being the character that got me into fighting games. Seeing videos of people getting rolled by multiple busters, or heat knuckle wall breaks really hyped me up and was the final push for me to start playing. He was the character i won my first few celestial challenges with in the early months of ggst and I doubt I would be playing these games at all without him. He also opened up the gateway into heavyweights in general which i stay true to maining Goldlewis, learning Bedman?, robot in yomi, and undecided between starting with Marissa or Zangeif when sf6 drops.
Potemkin was also my gateway into Goldlews after seeing how unfavourable it is for Potemkin. It’s also funny how you can put amor on every thing when playing the robot in yomi
@@typhoonbh im mad that people like guilty gear its fucking ugly half made and all the players have deep seated mental issues. are you mad one person doesnt like potemkin?
its like you will put up with anything as long as you dont have to put your own work in and can just suck dick in discord and get the op tech on day 1, (0 intention of playing in tournament), 1 so u can exclusively use it on new players because you fucking dodge everyone your level or higher
Wow dude the YT algo is working overtime! Awesome quality video, very well explained and eloquent. The throw is gonna be even more hype when SF6 comes out. Now the throw is a real neutral reset with all the distance it makes between the characters. A real reward for teching a throw. The shimmy meta is gonna be crazy. Liked and subbed.
I disagree, meterless moves shouldn’t have cooldowns unless you’re saying Potemkin buster should cost meter but even then that’s his main source of damage
@@typhoonbh that’s the point i’m trying to make, it shouldn’t be his, almost , only source of damage the devs should make him have more moves maybe not to the point that he has a full arsenal of moves but maybe diversify his throws and grapples, (and frankly I’d love to see an instant kill version of the heavenly potemkin buster ). This comes back to the meter idea you pitched, making it use meter but it would be redondant with the H.P.B* but i thought on giving him a time where he can’t chain two or three busters in one combo , I was thinking of maybe giving him frames doesn’t enables chains of grapples but enabling him to start a new combo we his pre-exising moves coupled with animations that shows how his battles have impacted him throughout the years linking this impossibility of chaining potemkin buster after P.B** to his lore as he is a soldier, or if it’s not possible maybe make it harder to pull out. Note: H.P.B: Heavenly Potemkin Buster P.B: Potemkin Buster (don’t want to create confusion between Potemkin buster and princess bubblegum)
I don't play grapplers, but one time I was messing around with Jack-O against my buddy in Strive, and upon stealing a round with Forever Elysion Driver I felt a strange rush I had never experienced in a fighting game before
I think Tekken really diversified the simple rock paper scissors of attack,block or throw with throw breaks and chickens basically making it so every action has a possible counter but there's still benefit to performing the action even if it's just to gain a positional advantage. Tekken seems to have introduced comboing FROM a throw instead of always used having been comboing into a throw as well. Although sometimes they take it too far with things like Marduk's tackle which is basically a just frame 50/50 that will kill you if used in the right combo
Yeah Tekken throws are a whole different world, its cool that some throws have multiple throw breaks so that it isn't over if you miss once. Also the takedown mechanic is cool too.
Not every action has counter. Generic df1 into sidestep is i13 mid and -1 on block, makes enemy's jab whiff and too fast to be countered with homing move, you can just block homing and take the turn. Only possible option is mirror-sidestep on hard read and hope enemy whiffs. And it counters only df1 -> df1, there is unlimited options with df1 -> highcrush low CH launcher or df1 -> sidestep -> df1 -> sidestep loop that just bullies Kazuya, or df1 -> homing. And you are afraid of challenging enemy on -1 because those filthy frauds with generic df1 also has low CH hit confirmable launchers. Brainded stupid womans like Kazumi, Josie, Nina, Anna, Julia, Lidia, Miguel, Feng, Claudio, Lars, Lee.
@@typhoonbhit is, i love tekken throws and especially king, prolly the most grappler grappler to ever grappler As for tackles, maybe theyd be funny ton use at some point in other games
But do throws in Tekken even work? I watched a Rooflemonger video on Virtua Fighter and in one of the comments, he said that he prefers VF and DoA over Tekken because throws are actually useful in the former two.
@@Maver1ck101 throws in tekken work depending on game, if its any game before 7, then its a really harsh execution check, in 7, they work fairly well online unless youre fighting very experienced players Otherwise, king and armor king have throws with different breaks but with the some animation, so with certain set ups its literally a guess into a lot of dmg n oki I never played VF or DoA so i dont know how they work
i actually picked up ggst sol as a pure gimmick instead of actually learning a full toolkit i almost exclusively use dp and command grab which uses the same input so it's by far the fastest i've ever picked up any character extremely entertaining character to whip out against your friends because as soon as you win an interaction with it you just put them in hardcore rps; truly the ultimate strike/throw
I distinctly remember one day I had a bunch of extra time in class, so I downloaded Fantasy Strike on the computer. The game where you tech throws by doing nothing. I throw looped like 5 people.
Author most likely already know this but for those who don't, only Strive grabs are 2 frame. Older GG games had frame 0-1 grabs (so like SF2), meaning that being in close range to oponent at any time was dangerous. Pressure and oki had to be altered to avoid this. Grabs also had built in OS's with buttons like 6P but this was usually character specific
Coming from DBFZ, where the universal throw is 26 frames iirc to Strive where it's 2 was pretty crazy. It went to a pretty useless mechanic without heavy conditioning to one that's important in most matchups, always an option on defense or offense.
The street fighter 2 example is interesting because the original version had no throw teching whatsoever. They added it in later because the mechanic caused so much salt.
I have seen a heavy increase in Grappler content, and I am pleased because I foresee a good future for the grappler archetype with these new installments
Great video! I think throws are in a pretty good place right now. I'm fine with throws being comboable as long as resources are spent to do it. I don't tend to play grapplers, but as a refreshing break away from my usual fast mixup nonsense I have enjoyed Potemkin in XRD/Strive; and Kanji Tatsumi in Persona 4 Arena
Throws dont always need to require resources to combo, for example in blazblue throws are slow(7F) and you can still tech out during the throw but if it lands you get hit by a devastating combo
I think throws being comboable without resources have their place. Benimaru could combo off his normal throw in KOF 13, and I feel like throw combos would be appreciated in XV where the defense is pretty strong
I live Incineroar from smash, super fun and rewarding but if we’re talking traditional then I have to go with Pot, high damage high reward is my type of play style so he fits me very well
An interesting point to add as a Potemkin player in strive, Okizeme after potbuster is almost always fake unless he has 50 meter, by the time potemkin gets into range and recovers from hammerfall break a 5 frame or faster jab will stop both potemkin buster and close slash, he could stop hammerfall sooner however this makes potemkin buster a non threat since he cannot delay it to catch backdash and far slash/2p oki is nearly completely useless, the only exception is if you kara cancel into hammerfall the first frame after pot buster's animation ends then hammerfall break on the first frame Close Slash will connect, which will counter hit 5 frame jabs but will still lose to 3 and 4 frame jabs, needless to say probably under 5% of potemkin players can do this double frame perfect input with any consistency
if you want to be a total nerd for the sake of getting an advantage you can actually tell if he hit the first input by seeing if he lurches forward immediately after he puts his hands down, if his movement into hammerfall is smooth it is 100% safe to mash a 5 frame normal
I'm not a Potemkin main, but I know that garuda impact is crazy disjointed and beats short ranged buttons. Can't you call out most fast buttons with that?
@@doughnutboyo6922 Only after close ranged knockdown, after potemkin buster in full or midscreen potemkin doesn't have time to garuda, getting hit by 2d, buster in corner or slide head in close range are all very bad news because garuda is basically a very annoying guess for game situation obviously this is all assuming no meter
Makoto is my favorite fighting game character because of how she tips the strike/throw dynamic on its head. Giving her the opportunity to get an attack's worth of follow up off her command throw means "take the throw" is actually really bad advice against her, and opponents are always forced to play the 50/50 as though both outcomes are the same. In that way, she's kinda the truest half-grappler in fighting games, because she gets identical reward off of a command grab vs off of a strong hit, and is equally incentivized to go for either option
@@videoclunk4731 what???? dude I was literally her age (in SF4) when I first started playing her and fell in love with her, and she's an adult in third strike anyways
sf3 hugo is my favourite because the system mechanics just kinda favour him so hard that despite his horrible matchup chart (look it up) he's still getting tournament results fairly often
sol badguy is my favourite grappler. also, did you know in guilty gear Xrd and previous games all regular throws has no whiffing since they were on 6H. if you missed, you would get 6H or 6(any button) if you option selected. they were also frame 1
Guilty gear always had 1 frame throws until strive Edit 2:most anime fighters allows you to combo after throws even without the RC mechanic such as blazblue and every guilty gear before strive
@@typhoonbhnot only that but since its the same command as heavy slash whiffing throws is essentially just throwing out heavy slash so technically there is no whiff animation, characters like raven abuse the hell out of this Also new edit
I can easily counter the throw in tekken and soul calibur. Because there's a purple sphere, that shows when I should be counter throwing. Other games give no such luxury, and animation for throws is different character to character anyway. So - I just cannot deal with them, at all.
command grabs can be broken and some have multiple hits where you have chances break out of them, you need to know the corresponding button though. There are also takedowns that can be reversed onto the opponent.
DSbro just dropped a new potemkin combo that has 4 frame perfect inputs back-to-back-to-back-to-back. He wasnt lying, some of those combos are tough as nails
2D fighter grabs often feel earned for the most part. Tho for some non-grappler characters i wish there was just a single grab button rather than a multi-button input.
Great video bro! Loved it. What is the song towards the end of the vid talking about pot's Kara strategy? I recognized it but don't remember what it's from. Take care!
As someone that has played Ken since I was but a wee baby, I love throws so much. Every game, I play the Ken-esque character because of how fun it is to run strike/throw. Letting an opponent naturally open themselves up because they're scared of the throw is awesome. That being said, I don't particularly enjoy proximity throws with no dedicated whiff animation (partially why I don't play earlier Gear titles).
I can't really say whether or not throws need to be toned down because most fighting game series (and sometimes even different games within a series) handles them a little differently. One of my favorite fighting games is Pokken, and throws have an important role there. The generic throw that every character has is a guaranteed way to cause a Phase Shift, and it also plays into the RPS mechanic by beating counter attacks but losing to regular attacks. They're also on average stronger than generic throws in other fighting games, so 'taking the throw' isn't always the best idea. At the same time, the attacker has to consider how their position will change after the throw, because one that results in a wall-blast will deal extra damage but also launch the opponent to the other side of the stage, effectively losing the advantage you could have had by keeping them in the corner. Also as a grappler player my favorite always has been and always will be Tager, but I've never played BlazBlue competitively so it's hard for me to articulate why I like him more than others.
I'm not great at fighting games, so I just annoy my friends by using throws whenever my friends whiff in Street Fighter, to make them regret their mistakes..... and I may or may not try to condition them into some bahaviour, only to then exploit it, later. Not sure if it's smart, but it's fun.
I may add to the Grappler thing: Android 16: The Fastest Grappler ever. He is an unique case because he breaks most of the standard Grappler things. His grabs are slow, at least compared to the Standard Grabs of Fighting games, and his grabs dont do as much Damage as your standard grappler, but his combos are centered around chaining Grabs mostly, he also has Ranged options in his 5S/j.5S too, unlike most grapplers, even alongside a Great Assist, and well, standard speed like the rest of the cast.
And then there's Tager. he's got a projectile faster than a Bugatti Chiron. 2 grounded command grabs that can link to his "no ukemi for you" button that puts you in an uncomfortable range to get grabbed again. An air command grab that's invul on start-up and a wonky hitbox. An anti-air grab that also links to his "no ukemi for you" button. And a delayable command grab super that deals damage comparable to my student loans. And did I mention that he can magnetize you so his motion inputs, drive, and command grabs pull you towards him? Yet Tager gets bodied by Jesus kick, Milf the phantom, Hakkymans, Susan, Paddle guy, The Sword sisters, Burakku rakku sutinngaaaaa, Drill guy, basically half the character select screen (no, Rachel doesn't count. And Carl, Carl dies in two grabs). BlazBlue is whack, I tell you.
Clark Steel... Calm, and with all the tools to stay chill, waiting for opponent to make a move (Except projectile dogde / reflect like Z "green hand"); yes, fan of big dudes doing big damage Superb editing, specially with the memes
Hawk in Super Turbo is only considered mid tier if played well... he is NOT the reason people hate grapplers; it was only around 2012 that the tech was found and before this point he was considered the worst character in the game. And, sure, if your opponent makes a number of mistakes, and you make a few good reads, and you get them to the corner, it is possible to throw loop them until they die. What isn't mentioned is how this is so insanely difficult to do that not even the handful of Hawk players in the world who can actually play at the highest levels are able to do so consistently. It has NEVER been a problem. The other grappler in the game, Zangief, is also not a problem and is low tier. Now, Honda's stored Oichio throw IS a problem. If you wanted to adjust the balance of the game, nailing Honda is the key to it IMO. Then there are also the most egregious things in the game, like O Sagat's fireballs (recovery is too fast, the fast one is too fast and the slow one is too slow), Claw's wall dive loops (WAY more disgusting than anything a grappler can do in this game), Boxer's rushes that are so fast it's almost impossible to react to, Chun-Li's stored super and the bug that makes here regular throw do as much damage as a light SPD, etc. Think of her head stomps that are a 50/50 guess and if you guess right it's still her turn, or O Ryu's 50/50 unblockable Tatsus on wakeup. As far as touch of death combos, most characters have them and not just Hawk... and considering top tier characters like Dee Jay or Boxer can do this I fail to see how it's a problem that Hawk can. So why don't we see them in matches all the time? Again, the execution is far too difficult for people to reliably pull off in a match. Here is a video showing it done on a lot of different characters: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-JSi85hai_-I.html TLDR: Most people have no idea just how difficult it is to execute on Hawk or Zangief in ST, I know I sure as hell can't, to the point where the skill needed is so high you need to just admit that person who beat you is a much better player than you. If you disagree go play one of these characters on fightcade and be humbled.
I play Ky Kiske so i can say i'm a grappler player. Also you forgot to mention that in BlazBlue throws open for full combo without any resources. Anyway, top tier video, the editing is just.... it's mamma mia
Well as a Tekken player throws are fine. Marduk has some bs and the true 50/50 kings get is annoying. But like it's fine. Maybe the true 50/50 might be a good idea if it wasn't with GS and shining wizard considering how much gs does for you, but that's a very small thing in general.
Yoo idk why I didn't get notified for this one, it's gotta be one of my favorite video from you, great editing! Also when I look up "typhoon Brawlhalla" I find your channel soon, we'll be able to just search for "typhoon" and get the same results, keep going.
I understand now that without throwing, 2P can block until 1P whiffs In my teens, my friends and neighbors were not that enlightened (I throwed too so I sometimes escaped XD )
God I love Pot, mostly because while I can take away 90% of my opponent's health with one combo, I still dont know how to Kara cancel so I just do stuff and it works Heat Knuckle go brrr
My favorite trick is playing characters with minus-on-block jump-ins, spamming the move at the start of the match, and then just forward jumping into throw once the opponent is conditioned to hold block.
Seeing that intro (featuring my favorite grappler) reminds me of perhaps the most horrifying hard read RPS I seen. Cowboy: Jumps to avoid Bounds Check Robot with 7 bars: *hippity hoppity your win is my property.* For the non hustlers, Robot’s “KILL PROCESS” command grab hits only aerial and eats all your super, but when used in neutral deals 400 damage per bar… (You can also Whiff Cancel into it, which can make it ungodly levels of satisfying if you manage to catch a foe with it when they think they’re gonna get ya)
I like throws, cause I'm a player from the 90's where internet was not a thing and my only opponent was the PC so that's wht I learned to use the most, even though I don't play grapplers. Almost 20years latter I'm still trying to shake the habbit of grabbing ppl randomly in a match, but old habits die hard.
meanwhile platform fighter :shiek grab you can she tech chase ? if yes pray and change mixup . is the sheik Jmook ? let you controller down and enjoy the sick combo
I actually dislike the strike throw playstyle and playing against it despite loving Sol in Strive. It feels like that people are either just blocking everything to take the throw or getting absolutely annihilated for trying to contest, neither of which feel like I'm earning the victory. It really is just guessing when someone is gonna try to throw and blowing them up for it. For this reason, I love games where regular throws don't have an extremely punishable whiff animation or where pressure is oppressive but every throw is reactable, since it makes what's going on when someone does escape or open you up a lot more clearer.
You shouldve did it on the 2d mortal kombat throws. Perfecting that was akin to cheating. You can literally stop moves mid frame with a simple back or forward and low punch
I expected mention of grabs in smash. Super annoying and advantageous for some characters, like Mario who can turtle up until he gets an opening for a grab>throw>up tilt spam
Grapplers are my worst nightmare, i don't now why, but they tilt me so hard (i'm a new in fighting games complexity stuff, only play for fun when young)
I don’t like grapplers usually but i do love my command grabs Think about heavy hitting damage dealers that also have a command grab and advancing move Like sol ganon and geese I don’t like it when my gameplan revolves around throws But a sick command grab adds a lot imo if its not the main thing the character revolves around
i dont play grappler, im more of a rushdown high risk high reward characters. but that one time i tried using grappler i was like, holy hell that's awesome. but yeah, still wont main a grappler though 😂
Eh… I play characters that excel in zoning out the opponent from the safety of the other side of the screen… so…. Grapplers are kinda boring to me. Rush down on the other hand… those fuckers push me to be at my best.
Very solid video dude My Favorite Grapplers are Armor King/King and Pot due to the massive amount of emotional damage i deal to my irl mates on offline matches
