The Great Rivals Debate feat. Samito, Spilo & AVRL 

nah, getting dived as a support sucks. i prefer anything but a hard dive meta.

Dive is the best meta since nearly all characters can be viable

Tipple DPS ball meta was actually the peak

@@sakitoshiget good ?

@@Doople I agree, honestly.

Yep. He already has literally 2000 effective hp. 800 natural + 800 from dmg reduction during vape + 400 that vape heals.

i knew the kids will find it funny

flats looks skinny in it

​@@jeffe2267It's because he doesn't lift, so his arms are skinny for a big guy

Downright funny too, just adds to his grumpy character.

I made a suggestion like this a while ago. Just make his alternate fire throwing both guns (40dmg each, about the same size and speed as a sym ball) and then he reloads like normal. Obviously it wouldn't have infinite range like sym though, maybe a bit longer than a junkrat grenade

or an emote where he opens up a shop and sells his guns to let other players use them once each.

​@@mrminiature11he should do a dark chuckle after bonking people with them

@@Real_MisterSirjust play echo lmao i like the idea though just don’t think i’d play the game because i’d be trying to sell at my shop💀

He's been gaslit. How every game is 5v5, tank is "problematic" in every game etc. All that shit gets to people. Even this time svb couldn't restrain from mentioning for the 50th time the same damn bullshit about tanks being bad in all games.

​@@garikekhe isn't gaslit he is legitimately ignorant of other games. Literally, all of them are because people who like mobas are an extremely niche group who are in total opposition with what shooter players want.

@@garikek what game has tanks as a popular role amongst its playerbase?

@@Shzl47 ow1 when sigma, orisa and hot aren't 10 times better than rein, zarya, monkey. Shills bring up that argument to stray away from the fact that tank as a role has been ruined by awful balancing in ow1 and followed up by removing 1 of them in ow2, and to just say that "tanks are bad in all games guys, the problem isn't in overwatch, it's just how it is", which is so wrong. October 2020 patch has shown that tank can easily be a popular role when FUN and FAIR heroes are viable. Ain't nobody wanna play fucking orisa, sigma, hog. Yet those 3 were perma op in ow1 ever since role lock came out. I don't play every single game that has tanks in it, and it doesn't even matter if the argument is right or wrong, it's used to gaslight and move away from the problem. Problem is balance, immortalities, sustain, and all these are yet to be addressed, in fact devs only add more of each of that stuff. As an analogy: you have a Toyota Prius and you have problems with your battery after 5k km. You're mad, but a salesman comes up to you and says: "It sucks, but every brand has cars that malfunction. It sucks man, but it's a universal problem". Instead of addressing the present issue that is solvable (you can fix the battery, you can fix tank role (as shown by October 2020 patch)) the sentiment is that the issue is universal so you just have to eat it up. Which is quite clearly bullshit.

@@garikek OW1 is a bad example because it was hard to get 2 players to play tank pre-role-lock. It's literally the reason they did a 1-3-2 experiment. Both Game Directors have admitted this.

Good it wasn't talked about because it's a waste of time. 6v6 discssion is irrelevant it's not going back. Get over it

The 6v6 thing was stupid to begin with. And many of the people who argued against it, would frequently bring up how the topic would crwate serious divisions in the community. It's nuts that it got to this point. And it's nuts that its even bleeding into marvel rivals now.

5v5 is what was stupid to begin with. When Overwatch was originally developed before any changes were made to the OG game. The devs tested several different formats and determined that 6v6 was the best one and built the game around that. Having role lock makes the format even more important than no role lock and somehow these devs thought 5v5 would be a good format. 5v5 only slightly works with no role lock and is a bad format with role lock. This never needed changing 6v6 has always been the perfect format for Overwatch.

​@@ducasse8473arguing for the healthiest format for the game is not stupid. Now of course it has to be done with respect to the other side

true, people really need to calm down. there should be nowhere near as much hostility between both sides as there is

No i think tanks should be like that to an extent

it's not hogs fault they buffed the tank passive instead of individual tanks(hog players did not ask for headshot damage reduction or less knockback on tanks making whole hog nuke tanks), nerfed orisa(his counter), went to 5v5(no OT to peel for hooked players) and Suzu exists which bails out hog when he gets anti naded by ana.

​@@bentocodI just want you to know you're wrong and I have no intention to debate further

I think it’s bc generalist tanks are the only ones that can survive in 5v5

I seriously hate Alec and think he makes the worst decisions and is 50x worse for the game than Geoff ever was. His decisions are absolutely horrible. Dude straight up is the worst thing to ever happen to the game he's in charge of balancing. For the love of God, put us back in 6v6 like we all know should have happened a year ago and spare us all from this hell

I been saying this man thank you. It’s a huge part of the frustration players express all the time and why some heroes can’t exist between the extremes of broken op or dogshit. It’s a big part of why counter picking is so powerful. These abilities deny interactions completely and create disadvantages that cannot be responded to at all, which removes skill as a relevant factor, which creates frustration. Ppl just aren’t connecting the dots or don’t care. And when you point out how harmful abilities like anti nade are for the game there will be people who defend the ability just because of hero identity bs or just because they don’t like the idea of change.

Completely agree! Biotic 50% less healing on tank 75% on others. Hack blocks one button for a little longer duration. Hinder slows cd recovery and movement speed a little. All immos should be reworked. Kiri step needs los. Suzu burst heal remove and only cleanses with a little shorter cd.

Its a good option if they force 5v5 to stay, cause its not gonna work with 3 roles or how tanks are at the momment

@@202adrit would probably make the game better but people who only play the game for tank like me would probably leave the game so idk if they would risk it tbh

Going back to 6v6 would be significantly better, however you have to grant him that in a 5v5 format making tanks squishier and closer to DPS characters would probably be a good direction for the role. Then of course I don't fully agree with it to the point of "getting rid of tanks".

@@user-cy6xl3vd3f like bro are you having brain fog they had to buff the tanks defense. Because tank player can't play tanks if they are squishy. What your talking about is just removing the tank role and before we get to that we should try to 6v6.

@@202adr but why force 5v5? They went 5v5 because they said it would be easier to patch. Clearly that was a lie go so lets go back.

Yeah but open queue isn't balanced. All tanks just have 150 HP deducted from their total. So junkerqueen gets super shafted while hog isn't really changed to much.

Yeah no one really thinks about open queue tho

HELL NO TO SAMITO. Man just insults anyone who disagrees and cries on about the 6v6 debacle.

@@CrippsyS okay Custa, lol. Every time Samito is on the pod he’s super respectful and contributes meaningfully to the conversation.

Fr, the logical vs emotional counterbalance

@@CrippsyS do you even watch these debates??? lmfao

@@reapfield8687 spilo has logical, samito has both lol

All because a bunch of delusional redditors with the shittiest movement and positioning died to Hanzo a couple of games and couldn't endure putting the blame on themselves. So sad to see a hero get gutted and turned into a tank shooting bot just because mentally disabled by choice people dislike it.

yup. i really don’t understand why they immediately went to gutting him. it means spam is the only viable way to play. they could’ve done anything else; nerf story arrows, increase draw time, nerf his health (like widow), but instead they made him less fun.

Hanzo being trash is good for the game, sorry not sorry

@@ForbidenXShadowI think you’re part of the reason this dev team is confused on how to balance. Something annoying you doesn’t mean it should get patched 😂

@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 FOR REAL, many annoying things have existed since the beginning of overwatch, they should only get patched when ACTUALLY too strong, we've lost so much identity over this "remove every annoying thing" mentality

Yeah I agree their answer felt very lackluster and looked like they were trying to avoid answering that question

This is literally what all mercy mains say. Even on this podcast. Repeatedly. There is no reason for these guys to be confused, it's so weird.

As long as dmg boost exist + dps chars like sojourn / ashe / pharah / echo. The pocket only 1 person playstyle will never die. U can choose to not pocket them and fly around instead but dont cry if u have 40% winrate then.

I feel the same way about Brig. It's sad for me to see my girl become more and more of an AFK shieldbot/heal dispenser. I want to bash around the battlefield brawling.

@@xEmjey if anything too many mercy's hyper focus on pocketing even with a good pocket, they'll let their entire team die just to heal up a pharah or echo behind cover with 10 hp remaining

@@zc8673 I think one way to achieve that would be to decrease her ult charge needed for her rally. I find rally to be kinda mid in regards to ults since it doesn't give armor anymore to her team so I usually use it to make myself a tiny tank when the fights getting hectic. Works pretty well for me cause I used to play a lot of rein so my shield management is top tier lol. But it would allow her to have more moments of stepping up to make a play or stepping to save someone. I feel like it would help a lot with her gameplay loop

He's even a DPS player tho, it's a shame we don't have more tank mains speak out as well

Agree

@@P-39_Airacobra Hes mainly a DPS player, but hes top 500 on all roles, he plays all roles nearly equally and understands them all well.

@@P-39_Airacobrathe OW community is too soy for Samito. It’s funny bc he’s not even some raging right wing lunatic either. Just someone with a strong and well-versed opinion

@@soccerjedi69 you dont have to be a right winged lunatic to be a raging dumbass. his last 20 vids are ragebait and hes just farming overwatch frustration for money. its mega cringe

Hanzo, genji, rein, mercy: "am I a joke to you?"

Junk:can i join?

it’s funny how by the fact that all of them concurred that he was a problem in overwatch 1 and it was the exact same problem that your comment is factually incorrect hahahah lmfao

@@nidoqu33n Hog was never a problem with 2tanks.

@@bradhurtz9173yea i’m glad you clearly didn’t watch the video but hog has always been a problem, problem doesn’t mean OP

@@bradhurtz9173 nah I mean he was but only cause they made him more forgiving, the 50% damage resist wasn't needed while he could 1 shot, and when he couldn't move while healing he was totally fine

Because overwatch is bad and most overwatch players know this so legit competition is dangerous

​@lordmew5 that's good because it means the devs will actually have to try

@@lordmew5 lmao dangerous?? who cares bruh, let overwatch have reasons to change for the better, we know a LOT of people haven't been happy with overwatch 2 for a little while now

​@lordmew5 competition is good for the space look at xdefiant because of its success BO6 is talking about making SBMM weaker

And nerf his projectile size. It's super silly. Every time I shoot I can clearly see it's 30 centimeters away from the hitbox but I get the hitmark... Should also remove more of those random oneshots.

Don’t do this bullshit. Just him his original one shot power and make his shot hitbox smaller than everyone else’s

@@garikek Without his projectile size, he's got nothing. Taking it away would require giving him something.

@@Highstar7331 yeah, his oneshot headshot and twoshot bodyshot. But regardless of whether he has it or not, his current projectile size is braindead. It literally hitmarks when you clearly miss by a mile. Imo that's just boring.

This has been a talking point for Hog in 6v6 too buddy.

​@@AbbyOW2 It's a bad point is the important thing there. A DPS won't exist with hook. It's just outside the fundamental design philosophy for Overwatch. So you're basically saying kill the character.

It’s annoying when people say roadhog feels out of place in overwatch because they’re forgetting to imply, “out of place in overwatch 2”. Of course roadhog feels like shit because he’s the only tank. Roadhog wasn’t as problematic in overwatch 1 when we had two tanks. Yeah he had high damage and could punish people out of position but he had many downsides. He was a ult battery for the other team and his heal and ult can be canceled easily. Now he can do it all and is not fun to play with or against It’s just 5v5 that’s the problem not roadhog

@@ziggy2metalx720 This is true but lets not kid ourselves, Roadhog was 100% problematic in OW1 as well, not as much because counterplay was much better there than it is in 5v5 Hog.

@@AbbyOW2 that’s why I said as problematic . Yes he had problems but like i pointed out, he also comes with many weaknesses. Now he has almost no weakness besides Ana nade that can be negated by kiriko. The difference between roadhog in ow1 and ow2 is so extreme that ow1 hog feels like a saint balance wise in comparison.

If only this was the direction they're taking the game.

That's a hilarious observation 😂

I think it's supposed to be another tank debate, but decided to title it as a marvel rivals debate for some reason.

He is very unbearable alot of times so idk

truth hurts ​@@kayanono

@@mckookie2967Naa Samito is condescending, angry, wrong half the time. Remember when he “quit” OW2 and was back 1 week later? 🤣 man just says whatever makes the most views.

@@mckookie2967 LMAO😭 Im talking about his constant insulting of people and his ragebait yt stuff, not his 6v6 opinion. Respectfully, stf u

​@@CrippsySdont think he's been wrong about a single thing💀

Overwatch lost its moba identity years ago

It was. . . but the devs sucked at balancing it, and less invested players didn't//don't care for it. I honestly think the abilities and strategy were what made it so good.

@@Highstar7331 That sucks cuz that was the main reason I got into this game. I was and still am a moba player and liked the fact that there were characters that catered to everyone but it's a shame they're slowly losing their identity and flexibility all moving towards the same healer/ dps/ big dps archetypes

Yeah idk why but this episode in particular has very poor audio mixing

So you’re saying make him a bitch to play? And remove his one shot entirely? This sounds like an avoidant fix that will gut the player base because it lacks the identity of the hero that people loved in the first place. He never an issue before

What did I just read?

Hanzo feels trash in every rank😂

One format is definitely better than the other.

@@nahaight1373 not objectively.

@@KlebinDaBoca I would argue 6v6 is objectively better than 5v5. Having two tanks instead of one allows for more variance in how certain tanks are played. It also allows tanks to have certain weaknesses. These weaknesses can then be mitigated by the other tank, leading to a balanced comp that still has individual weaknesses. A duo of Rein and Zarya is a perfect example of this. Rein is great for frontline protection, but weak at filling in gaps. Zarya is bad at frontline protection, but great at filling in the gaps that Rein can’t get to. If a genji is flanking, instead of putting down his shield and leaving the whole team vulnerable to take care of the genji, rein can defend the team from the front while Zarya bubbles the person genji is flanking and deals with him. Individually, they have glaring weaknesses, but together they mitigate it. 5v5 forces tanks, especially tanks like Rein, to be in two places at once. If you stay in the frontline to defend your team from the bulk of the damage, you can’t peel. If you peel, you can’t hold your shield. It is up to your teammates to peel or each other or themselves. And the tanks have ridiculous amounts of hp, and now even take reduced headshot damage and 50% reduced knock back. Blizzard can’t make another tank like Rein who has a glaring weakness because no one will play a tank like that when you can play tanks that are decent in everything. Less uniqueness=more stable but more boring. I am interested in what advantages gameplay wise you believe 5v5 has over 6v6.

@@arshnoorsran9191 I'm not arguing for which is better. I'm arguing that both are flawed and will still be until they address what they expect roles to do. Arguing that 6v6 is objectively better than 5v5 and vice versa won't move an inch of this discussion. People prefering the flaws of one instead of the other are a whole other beast. Without a clear vision of what each role should conceptually be/have/do anything on a role locked setting will fail. Best regards.

@@KlebinDaBoca You are right in the flawed aspect, but its not with just the tank role, supports with immortality abilities, and insane cc abilities which are easy to use the negate ultimate's with no skill. Brig Bap and Kiri. But 6v6 is better because the biggest flaw of 5v5 is 3 roles which mean 1 role , becomes a game of which is the best stat character and then the rock paper scissor counters that beat it. Which then forces that 1 role to be buffed to oblivion or get blown up, to then buff aspects of other roles to reduces the impacts, (dps passive heal reduction) while increasing hp for all heroes, after all the buffed healing done to support the one tank. Even if they fix the design, the fact that the roles are uneven makes any kind of attempt of what you are trying to get conceptually in a role locked setting will fail. They either remove tanks or add a tank, its not a 5v5 and 6v6 argument its a tank or no tank argument.

Ok so? He absolutely should be punished for misplaying lol It’s thinking like this that is leading this game going to shit 😒

@@vape42069 He should be, but the way he was counterable were also ultra easy to pull off, making him hardly playable. And i'm of the belief that a simple cooldown like Flashbang shouldn't cancel a whole Ultimate.

​@@SekundesCCFFVIIthat's 5v5 for ya, where the tank endures every single ability in the game

@@garikek It happened before 5v5 too

@@SekundesCCFFVII you didn't eat literally every single ability though. Only as a rein if you had a flanking hog as your teammate, but even then hog would eat either sleep or something else.

He was already good against doom anyways. And the 4 nerfs he got are more than enough to bring him down so you're complaining about nothing.

@@BeastMode-bw2ry he was good against Doom anyway, so let him counter him more... Balance professional. Do you work at lizard?

​@elhubro2386 genius brain dead character counters doom we are nerfing him so let's make sure he shits on doom more before we do

Well, putting counterswapping aside, support role can just dumpster every single cooldown and take ridiculous positions because support passive makes them unpunishable for their mistakes. And DPS can take ridiculous positions because there isn't a second tank to cover those angles, and it comes down to your DPS covering your ass on the sides. And as a tank most of the time you just anchor point or hold highground by existing there. 6v6 + removing role passives removes 90% of that shit from the game. Also I can just tell you, peak counterswapping that I did and that I've heard of in ow1 was going hog against monkey or ball. Other than that you just go whatever tank, DPS are usually the ones pressured to swap to counter. Like reaper vs monkey or Hanzo vs shields. And also in 6v6 it's way more about the whole team composition rather than isolated counters because every role has 2 players that can cover for each other's weakness. And if your team is running rush into poke at least 4 people need to swap, it's not as easy as in ow2.

I think you might be the dumb one the point is literally that it isn't balance at all

It looked hella spammy in serious comp matches where everyone ran Groot strange Hela punisher racoon loki. You just had to stand in choke until your Hela got a random 2 tap or an enemy overpushed. But I think it comes down to Loki's ridiculous healing and punisher's and hela's stupid up close damage that destroys any magik/spiderman/black panther (when those heroes are already shit 😂). Just really gotta hope balance devs in rivals aren't as delulu as ow devs, because if they are then the game is fucked in half a year.

What does this achieve? Really seems like a lot of random changes paired with a couple of voiced opinions.

@@garikek I partially agree with this because it's sort of a rework to his identity now. My opinion was always that hanzo should keep the one shot, but if not, this is the other route they can experiment with. Making him do less damage, faster fire rate, and less movement penalty when charging an arrow to make him less of a sniper character more like a Cassidy with bow. This is also a bit problematic because it means he will always be worse than Cassidy because he is projectile but that's one thing they can try if they don't want to revert one shot to him I guess.

@@garikek just makes him funnier to play. If he’s gonna loose his oneshot just make him fun

@@Hsjackow another rework would be to give him his one shot but with range fall off but I think he’d be complained about too much so I doubt that would ever happedn

@@haku4841 I understand the draw speed and movement penalty buff. It makes him kinda more dynamic. But what's with the damage buff to dragonstrike, ult cost nerf and dmg nerf? Because in ow every time you change damage you're looking to change the breakpoints. But I don't see how 120->115 changes anything, why does ult need more damage when it already kills squishies fast (they just need to revert stupid speed change), and ult cost when the ult is that bad also seems unnecessary. And if I also wanted to make Hanzo more like Cass but projectile then Hanzo should do 125 dmg, but fine, if you don't want the oneshot, just make his crit do 1.9x dmg or something instead of 2x.