And now for the big battles! Movie info: www.imdb.com/title/tt0903624/ Credits goes to: Warner Bros. Pictures, Warner Bros, New Line Cinema. Monetized by owner/s. #KimerLorens #Kimer #Lorens
3:25 To this day, I just...I can't even. WHAT? Elves, the WHOLE idea of that formation is to take the brunt of the charge. Pinning the enemy in place, allowing an easily outflank. Phalanx formations have been doing it since antiquity. It's like that for the same reason shields are broad and heavy armor is thick - to take the hit. By jumping over it, you merely demonstrate incompetence. And probably get some of your own number skewered on Dwarven spears in the places where it becomes a crush. I can't help but imagine the Dwarven officer's grunt of frustration at 3:42, because they now have to break their own phalanx in order to charge forwards and join the melee...with spears. Probably losing more soldiers, trying to save the Elves from themselves and their inexperience. **Edit** - Imagine you're watching a gritty war film on the Second Battle of Fallujah. And during the climax of the film, the music swells, and the soldiers charge out of their positions to run across an open courtyard to start clubbing the enemy with their rifles. And rather than simply shoot them, the enemy do the same, getting up and having a melee, for seemingly no reason. Then the tank crews do it. Followed by the helicopter pilots, who land their vehicles, dismount, and get stuck in with fisticuffs. It's not played for comedy. The Hans Zimmer music is blasting. And the director is filming this completely straight. Expecting it to look epic. But all it does is shine a spotlight on the directors lack of understanding. Lack of even preliminary research. And it makes the characters (particularly the losing characters) look like fools. THAT is the Battle of the Five Armies.
Yeah, same thing with the stupid Holywood idea, when all archers releasing arrows at the same time. Its like yeah lets waste our best skirmish weapon by shooting in volley so the enemy know when to rise the shields and take cover. And they do this in every damn movie
Ah I see you were also brought here today, nice. To be fair, I imagine Thranduil's call was something like "Don't let those dwarf fucks outdo us, rush the orcs!" But also, the battle direction is really bad and silly.
Womble apparently you don't get warfare, it's all about how epic you look while your fighting. When you do something epic, everything will turn slow motion, giving you valuable time to assess the situation. I mean if not that, than why wouldn't they fall back into erebor and dale or fall back to the high ground instead of charging an outnumbering opponent on a plane fucking field!
Lucky that the elves are dumb enough to fire a volley rather than just expending the same arrows in a withering rain. Even luckier that having seen it spectactularly fail once they immediately repeat the same mistake.
To be fair, the dwarves had too much plot armor to make not only such a ballista possible, but also have the elves be stupid enough to fire simultaneously two times instead of making a ranked volley, simply to make their ballistas effective. I mean, I am a fan of the dwarves but the whole scene was too set to make them look good
@@FckPooTN they survived the jump and were fighting, the wall opened up and joined them in battle right after their jump. They broke the tide. It wasnt a complete waste
The dwarves are so brave in this scene when the orcs arrive. No questions asked, they go straight to their death to deal with the Mordor army. God I love them
Pls don't misuse he Lord's name by just saying it for exclamation or with a curse word, Exodus 20 7 says that we shouldn't take the Lord's name in vain (in emptiness, worthlessly or to no good purpose), that he will not hold guiltless any one who take his name in vain. May peace and God's blessings be with you all and remember I and God love you all! Repent of your sins and turn to God, believe in Christ with all your heart, that he died for our sins and God raised him up again, put your faith and trust in him and not on our works because no matter how many good works we do those alone won't save us but remember that faith without works is dead faith. Live a new life for God, for Christ, TGBTG! ( To God Be The Glory).Romans 3 23 says that everyone has sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and Romans 6 23 says that the wages of sin is death (hell). Let's spread the Gospel with love for God and for others, sorry because this is a lil bit out of topic😅, love ya guys.
@@vaterix4202 499 B.C. is after 500 B.C. He is referring to people before Sun Tzu so that's 501 B.C., meaning that before the writing of the Art of War, people did not know how to fight, like in this Lord of the Rings scene. Terrible battle tactics.
@@highkingthorgrimgrudgebear7468 Мany Russians too hate Russia, but when some little yankee says it -in us a bear wakes up. Don't forget, we Russian don't fucking care how many us die, but we take win
This has got to be the most satisfying and frustrating battle sequence throughout Jackson's adaptations, from a tactical and C2 perspective. The "twirlie-whirlie" countertactic employed by the dwarves was ingenious (artillery whose only doctrinal shortfall would be its niche operational utility), and then - although captured in only a few seconds - the column formations dynamically taken by the elves to "herd" the dwarven cavalry charge into a spear enclosure has me thinking of the Battle of Zama, 202 BC. The way the elves immediately begin to interoperate with the dwarves by forming up into small sections, opening up lanes for the dwarves to maneuver through. The orc's use of the banner to issue battlefield commands is likewise very cool. BUT THEN THE ELVES PARKOUR OVER THE DAMN PHALANX!! WHY?! Sure- break up the orcs' charge, but that phalanx was perfectly set up for them to hold the orcs in place, while you did LITERALLY ANYTHING YOU WANTED TO! Reposition archers, or the dwarves their twirlie-whirlies, up onto the embankments and provide fire support; maneuver your swords to the wings of the dwarves' centre, so as to secure their flanks; maneuver troops around to the orcs' rear to neutralise the nydus worms (Starcraft 2 reference), cutting off the flow of troops- LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE WOULD PRODUCE A MORE COST EFFECTIVE BATTLEFIELD EFFECT!
Well, we all know Grandpa Elf, hates Dwarves all his life after his "precious" gets taken away, it's quite expected that a king would order his men to suicide just because of pride, think about it, the Elves probably hesitated to charge because of the fact that their king would send his men to the front of the phalanx, I mean they know a phalanx themselves so it's basically insane for someone to go over the phalanx when they know what it does. It's cool and it has some benefits like the element of surprise but yeah, suicidal and non-realistic but I will repeat it, it's _cool_ Btw that SC2 reference got me lol, you and I have the same thought on those worms everytime I see them after Starcraft
I remember seeing that in theater and facepalming. This could have been cool. Elves should have had a few volleys of arrow fire to break the charge. But looks like,e they just sacrificed two lines just for them to die.
@@Lucifer-we5mc I believe that the elves are immortal as long as they don't get killed. So they have an immortal natural life, but they can be killed by others.
@@Lucifer-we5mc immortals in general in fact, the Elves last as long as the world lasts. But their bodies can be destroyed and they are reborn in Aman, the Blessed Country, from which they can never leave. So it's as if they disappear forever from the world. I do not know how the Dark Elves take the fact of being stuck there but I think they should not be happier.
To be honest of all the "good" races of Tolkien, the godlike beings not included, the dwarves are the one I'd be most afraid of fighting. While individual elves are far superior to dwarves, the dwarves in general are a very physically powerful race that's been forced into a warlike culture and who has the most difficult towns to conquer. Wanna beat humans? Level their towns and fields. Wanna beat the elves? Burn that forest. Wanna beat dwarves? Now.. How the shit do we dismantle a mountain while having an army of tiny roided dudes fighting in cohesive units sallying out. (this especially holds true for the movie version, since the unit formations presented by the dwarves are VASTLY superior to anything both elves and men present. The typical elven formation we see seems to have a focus on mobility and skirmish power, while the dwarven legions seems to have a massive focus on tactical flexibility, to clarify they show technologically advanced field artillery, roman like formations made up of infantry fully armored and with tower shields. An army like that would be nigh on impossible to beat for the typical elven or human armies we've seen in all the movies combined. Bows are typically useless against full armour, especially when said armour is accompanied by tower shields used in unison. All a dwarven army would have to do in a field battle would be to hold their ground and wait for the enemy to run out of arrows, a charge is unlikely due to the combination of their stature, shields and spears and even if anyone were to do so - they'd die.) Edit: It's heater shields, my bad!
I watched this scene back when I was a kid and I couldn't think of anything more epic. Now it feels like a one of those cinematic teaser for World of Warcraft. All flashy and good for marketing.
It’s pretty awful compared to the older movies but I won’t lie the elves jumping the dwarf pike wall was pretty cool didn’t make much sense tactical but still cool 😂
the high elves (although undeniably snobbish) are experts in hybrid missile infantry (much better than shown here) with good melee, armor and more importantly speed. their only weakness is artillery which coincidentally is the strong suit of dwarves so together they truly make the most formidable fighting force.
@@thegamingwolf5612 the differences are marginal and only appear in their magic and mounts (high have celestial magic and ride horses wood have earth magic and ride stags) so really not much diff in tactics or genetics. Another difference is high elves can summon the eagles but wood elves can summon treekin but that's about it
well those elves are all older than everyone on the battlefield so they knew them for hundreds of years... ugh this is annoying to see peopl comment without even bein a fan of the lore idiots actually say much but hear little
2:50 idk why but the way the elves regroup into squads while dwarves rushes to form a shield wall is just beautiful. aww man I hope there were others who noticed this. It was a small but nice detail.
i mean, no not really, you cant technically put the blame on the elves, when a "mistake" like this happens, the blame should be directed to the directors. Sure the elves are just fictional but its still wrong
@@elano5386 jumping over the wall wasn't really about tactics, it was about getting to orcs before dwarves. One person controls what elven army is doing, and that person is pissed and insulted at that moment.
I personally think they rushed too far up to place the wall, I don't know why they ceded more distance when most of the elves are ranged and a few hundred feet can be the difference between two volleys or none.. especially when the elves jump over the wall. I laughed honestly, I forgot this movie after I saw it and this makes no sense.
@@sl_ipper Eh being as nimble as they are they could probably jump far enough over the spears Seeing as one of their kind managed to parkour up a falling bridge?!
@@JACKAL98 It wasn't actually a thing because you can manage a lot more with CGI animation than you can with actual real world physics and mechanics. Like much of this trilogy, compared to LotR, they let rule of cool override logic. There's no way you could get a ballista (essentially a giant crossbow on wheels) to launch a huge spear like bolt with long tails, with a rapid enough rotation to maintain flight AND shred a volley of arrows. In reality, if you were to shoot something like that from a ballista, the tail end of the bolt would likely immediately drop and it would wobble slowly, vertically for a short distance, if you were lucky making it far enough that it didn't crash into your own infantry. The other reason is practicality. A shield wall, historically, was perfectly capable of standing up to arrow volleys. That is a lot more efficient than trying to design an artillery piece like this, and frees up your likely limited artillery selection for either better anti-troop or anti-building fire.
Those dwarven anti-archer balistas are pretty sick. Not only do they negate the archer volley but they can also attack at the same time. And shocking thousands of years old Elvish king is also a nice bonus.
Giving props to the people behind this and have subsequently given us this masterpiece. The production, the scoring, and just the overall layout is more than enough to immerse you in their world.
3:20, the moment when the Dwarven commander says, 'Rakan Bekar' and they follow by, 'Ai Ruse Ai'. And then the following music at 3:26 is so damn addictive.
I love how quick to adapt the dwarves are. Without hesitation, after the Goblins announce themselves, they all change direction toward the goblins and set up formation, all while the Elves are trying to make sense of whats going on lol. What a scene.
Seeing how the dwarves responded quickly to the arrival of the other army shows that they are naturally impulsive. Whilst the elves are more contained they do not move until they are told to do so. But above all both creatures fought admirably in this scene.
I wouldn't call it impulsive, I'd call it survival mixed in with good training (A phalanx-shield-wall is just about the best thing against charging infantry (and cavalry, too) - unless you have modern machine-guns, artillery, mortars and mines, but if you don't? Well shield wall and if you have time to prepare? Dig some pits with pointy sticks in them, works on Orcs, too :) - the Elfs shouldn't have jumped over (ruins the effectiveness of the wall!)
I like to think the dwarves are more aggressive and reckless because they are mortal, so they are going to die anyway, doesn't matter when. Whereas, the elves are immortal, so their lives are more costly and fragile as they could live forever, making conserving elven lives more of a priority.
2:45 "The hordes of hell are upon us! Fight to the death!" I love the fact that the Dwarves immediately recognize the threat of the Orcs and waste no time in forming a DOUBLE spear wall and bailing on the Elves. Meanwhile the elves just hold until the last moment when they realize what is happening. This is why I love the Dwarves.
its not that they belatedly realize the threat, i believe that they were unsure of what to do, especially when they were invaders just then, and thranduil didnt issue any further order
@@reedpadgett9056 but where the hell were the bats or all the other bs that was a total rewrite it's a spoof movie in all honesty not very accurate to the book
“Eh, howdya like that? The ol’ twiddly widdlies. Haha ye buggars” I can just feel Tolkien’s influence in that line, truly capturing the how dialogue was handled in all of his books.
Imagine being a hobbit where orcs, goblins, trolls, wargs, men, elves, dwarves, gargoyles, and a giant ring worm all trying to kill each other. Like, wtf my species is back there smoking pot playing with mud and galabanting around
Best part of the fight and when the dwarves charge the elves on goats and the elves just spread out and easily kill the dwarves. Shows off their battle strategies. Wish there were more things like that.
I like this battle a lot because it shows the dwarves and elves, both studying and preparing for each other´s tactics but also understimating each other. First the elves, thinking that dwarves are only used to close combat battles in the mines, try to overwhelm them with arrows, but the dwarves were prepared and counter them with ballistas that were clearly designed just for that. But then the dwarves charge at the elves with goats, thinking they are only used to fighting at the distance in the woods behind the trees, only to be surprised by the elves´ incredibly organized spear formation, which traps and slaughters the riders.
Glad you noticed that because most comments only notice the dwarves anti-arrow defence and miss the fact the elves countered the dwarves cavalry charge.
1:50 The Strategy of the Elves where not good at all, they let the Riders in letting most of their army getting slaughtered behind, now the Elves with shield are also surrounded in both direction, with the Riders and the army pinning them, sure they got some of the riders, but what are they gonna do to those who breached through their second defense/offensive line of armies? The shields purpose is to block and prevent anything from entering, but they decide that its a good idea to just let the riders get behind the Backline Next scene on them being an Ally The Elves jumped over the Dwarves who’s position was already good and would kill and stop most orcs from getting past through, the formation they had was already good But the elves decided to jump out of those defenses through the spears of the dwarves right through the Orcs, now the dwarves will now have a hard time attacking and also avoiding on harming the elves that is infront of them 3:43 The dwarves charging with their shields and spears is very effective, tho the elves are infront of them still, which would or could get them killed or harmed, and also making it harder for the dwarves overall. The only good thing the Elves did here was shooting a barrage of arrows on the Orc’s, also the Elves seemed to be loosing when the Riders got through the elves defenses.
@@Zenith07 Your second point is true. The Elves jumping over the Dwarven Shield wall was stupid. But the first point is debatable. While the initial shield wall seems a little unnecessary, and suicidal for the Elves that composed it (I think it was intended as a sort of speed bump), the "pits" their army formed allowed empty spaces in-between that essentially funneled the Dwarven cavalry into kill-zones. On principle alone, that *will* obliterate any cavalry, as animals will prefer the easiest route and run into the empty space, surrounding themselves and their riders with Elven soldiers on all three sides. To prove my point: Do you see any more dwarven cavalry after the initial battle other than Dáin's pig? None, because they were obliterated by the Elves.
Can’t wait for Amazon to ruin the legacy. Sorry but I just don’t have any faith. Hollywood again not letting classics remain legendary and feeling the need to continue recreating them. LOTR is the best trilogy of all time. Period. What makes someone think they can “top” it?!
@@oraseus90 I thought it would be appropriate to point out that they, in canon, will be resurrected to fight side-by-side against all the evil forces of the world in Dagor Dagorath
Anyone complaining about the CG in this are just being spiteful haters to the core. It may not be quite as spectacular as LOTR, but this is still some of the most complex, well-done CG ever to come out of Hollywood. I watch this and it doesn't even occur to me that it's mostly CG. I'm just too involved in the story and the action. Just like when I watch LOTR, I think of Gollum as a real true character. It's absolutely amazing to me that people are that pretentious and spoiled as to complain about what is essentially some of the best effects they could have done given the scope of the project and timeframe.
@@Noold Billy Connolly was cast as Dain. A quick search turned up that the reason they did his character in CG is most likely because of Billy's Parkinson's Disease. They did actually do scenes with him in full costume, but his Parkinson's made his performance difficult and cause him to mess up his lines on set. So they had him do a voiceover with lines in front of him in the studio and replaced him with a CG character.
@@Noold Don't forget by the time it came for The Five Armies photography, Billy's Parkinson's had worsened. They really had no choice but to just use his audio and replace his acting for those scenes with the CG double.
What are them to think of orcs like tha, mate? Some kinda Hitlā? Like, literally Hitlā? Tolkin were so racist, that horrible hetero white man, yuck, the holy trinity of evil> Hetero.and.white.and... Man... I wanna see orcs making love, im so progressive
I should be more progressive then, and rewrite tolkien's work to be more fitting to today's societal estandards. You should read some really gooda articles about Tolkien being racist because his orcs are evil. theyre right there on google. Maybe youll find im shatter than that.
Most of them complain about Azog dumb strategy to interrupt enemy while they fight,but for real, Azog is a villain character inside this story and he is making mistake, i dont see the point of complaining about his strategy, cant we just enjoy the film and seeing villain making a mistake, just that evil character is making mistake to create a chance for good character, its pretty normal in film, even real life people make mistake, why do they even bother, right whatever maybe they just thought they are watching a streamer making mistake in game then so eager to point it out
The experts here think elves and dwarves who hate each other and have never fought as allies should know how to coordinate perfectly. They also think the berserking bloodthirsty monsters who even hurt and kill themselves in their rage should have the cool collected rationales of pro chess players.
You can't really complain about GoT's cavalry charge not making sense and simultaneously praise the Elves jumping in front of the shield wall 🤔 Both are prioritizing mindless spectacle over story and logic.
I dislike that the dwarves and elves actually deal significant casualties to one another in this battle. I liked it better when the elven king was reluctant to draw arms, and the dwarves are grim, set on making it through the barricade to help their brothers under the mountain. Then right as the dwarves try to break through the elven lines, Gandalf declares a ceasefire and the leaders hastily form a council to defend against a surprise host of goblins. This battle just treats both the dwarves and elves as cannon fodder for spectacle, and doesn’t portray the loss and grief of any good ‘man’s’ death in battle like LoTR battle scenes do imo.
Dwarves are forming a defence line, to let enemy smash on it like Spartans did. Elves jump over them and go into open fight, instead of waiting them to collapse and jump into their heads. TaCtIcAl DeCiSiOnS sUmMoNeR.
I think their intention was to lessen the blow on the Dwarf defensive line from the Orc onslaught, honestly it would have been smarter if the Elves reinforced the Dwarves as soon as the Dwarves took the impact.
The elves should have covered the dwarven flanks; which were wide open. The dwarves were asking to be enveloped. The dwarven cavalry should NEVER have been wasted on that head on charge into a spear wall. It is shown that the goats are easily capable of navigating in mountainous terrain. They should have been moved into advantageous positions in the mountains surrounding the elven army. A cavalry that is equally nimble as it has shock value... wasted on a head long charge into a spear wall. Good god. The dwarves had an overwhelming advantage with the number of cavalry they had compared to their own infantry. That was an insanely huge force of heavy shock. God I hate this so much. Thankfully for everyone though, the elves are significantly weaker in the movies than the books. 10 times better than a human man in every way. 10 times as strong, fast, nimble, intelligent, visioned, etc.. they do not fatigue easily either. They don't even need to sleep. This is not a people you want to fight.. they aren't your typical dainty little forest sprites from every other fantasy.
Don’t think he lost 1/5 of his army, it really just threw away a couple of archers, and in the next scenes, you can see how the army formation is complete, with no holes of dead soldiers, so it really didn’t kill that much