Agree because he could play a Character from this Robin Hood Untold story that I'm writing where Robin Hood and Prince John were childhood friends before they grow to become sworn enemy and Lee could play the villain again who also has long blonde hair like The elf king of mirkwood .
I agree. But I agree more that Lee Pace will be even greater if he play Glorfindel. One of the most powerful elves ever lived. Sadly, that character wasn't showed in LOTR movies.
@@wolf3104 would you not have the same reaction when the elf could have literally given the dwarves some food? Supplies? Help them when their home was taken? But they didn’t. They didn’t help.
Bruh, these films aren't bad like I've heard. They're not as iconic and masterful as Lord of the Rings, but not everything is. They're enjoyable and tell a coherent story, which is more than what most films these days have.
they're not horrible, but too much filler (dwarves or Legolas scenes where they're running around cheating death like they're Jedi). the CGI overkill also hurt.
@@darth254I couldn’t get past 30 minutes each time I tried to watch the first film. The CGI made it look like a video game. So weird. And the tone - it’s like it couldn’t decide if it was a comedy or a dramatic piece.
They are definitely not bad movies and I never understood the hate for them. Scenes like this one are brilliant. That said most of the action sequences are dumb and goofy and drag on for way too long imo.
@@TigerPrawn_The Cgi should definitely be improved but I think the tone is as faithful as the book itself. Since it is a children fantasy epic adventure, it's fine to be both comedic and dramatic. The same thing actually happens in Lotr books and movies too (the tone of the books, especially Fellowship of the Ring, is in fact more cheery than the movies.)
@@codywalsh2075 House of the Dragon is perfectly fine and they cast all of house Valerion to black actors the Rings of Power is just god awful in every way possible from terrible acting to cheap looking outfits and blatant disrespect for Tolkien's original work and visions all I'm saying is I'm glad this movie was made before all the inclusion madness and toxic Me to movement destroyed every movie series or animation in existence
Everyone talks about thranduil here and how great his performance was but man Thorin gets to me here. The emotion and passion he displays here is moving. I don’t think it’s as prideful as some people see. He rightfully distrustful of the elves not just because of ancient history but recent history. At least in the movies it’s clear thranduil is no saint. His heart holds a greed far more subtle than the dwarves but it’s there. “You turned away from the suffering of MY people.” That line always gets me. You can see in Thorin’s eyes how deep the trauma goes. It’s like it was yesterday for him. It’s a more selfless outburst than prideful, because he feels he’s advocating on behalf of his people. It’s not smart. It won’t really get him anywhere. And there is some pride behind his reasoning. But it’s emotional and real. He’s also in the right. They admitted how utterly desperate they were and begged for help but were turned away. What’s more is that those who were turned away other than thror himself had nothing to do with the dragon coming.
Thorin is the reason I wanted to rewatch this scene. He really has been through a lot. I'm not saying that Thranduil isn't amazing in this scene, but Thorin is just as outstanding.
And right afterwards, he instinctively switches from English to Dwarven language. Even if we don't know the meaning of his words, we can feel the emotion that causes someone to reflexively go back to their native tounge.
Well, Thorin was not without the reason. Thranduil had turned his back to the Dwarves when they needed the help most after Smaug's violent attack... all because Thror had greedily stolen those White Gems from Thranduil earlier.
So true, I love this scene because theres so much more detail to it. For example, I felt like it was a tough decision for thranduils ego to offer Thorin his help, Aswell as revealing a scar to him that hes probably ashamed off.
Thranduil witnessed the end of the first age, when the victorious host of Valar fought for FORTY YEARS to cut through Morgoth's armies and even managed to destroy the Balrogs - only to be almost wiped out when Morgoth released the winged dragons in a last attempt to turn the tide. Having lived through that, one could see how petty, ignorant and stupid Thorin's quest to rouse Smaug from his sleep would seem to Thranduil. If anything, Thranduil has shown a remarkable restraint here.
He still could’ve offered aid to them without trying to destroy Smaug. He could’ve at least have tried to give them shelter and food, but he merely walked away and left them to fend for themselves. I don’t agree that they were obligated to fight Smaug, but he could’ve done more to assist them in a time of need.
@@acrazysheepdog1555that was my only problem with thranduil. Just give them aid at least. That is enough. Also keep in mind he was still willing to awaken it for some gems. So that doesn’t matter.
@@BlackDiamond2718 Remember that Thranduil was still holding a pretty big grudge against the dwarfs due to their king at the time (forgot his name) for not only refused to give Thranduil those gems that meant so much to him, but he also smirked after letting him see them and shutting the small chest closed right in his face. It doesn't get more disrespectful than that. It's also heavily implied we brought his army to take the gems by force, but since the dragon beat him to the mountain, it was deemed a lost cause. As dark at it may seem, to him it probably looked like justice being served to a bunch of greedy dwarves.
Efectivamente cierto los enanos también son bastante vengativos y burlones y todavía el rey 🤴 elfo 🧝♂️ Thranduil los iba a ayudar . . . Todo cansa y cuando ti también tienes el poder de de ir no . . . Ahí las consecuencias, se ganaron a pulso el desplante del rey Thranduil 😮😮😮😮😮😮
@@vermicelledecheval5219 No Thorin was telling a half truth. Thranduil was already betrayed by the Dwarves. The King was corrupted by greed and didn't honour their agreement for the white gems.
Btw, speaking of the greed that the Dwarves got, you can thank Sauron for that. After Sauron created the One Ring, he thought that he was gonna be able to control the minds of the 7 dwarf lords who received their rings. The Dwarves weren’t so easily broken. However, the rings did give them an insane lust for gold and treasure. Thus, the term Dragon Sickness was created.
Not really true, it made the kings greedier, not the entire race. And the king's greed fueled the dragons of the north, like in erebor. Without the ring erebor likely would have never attracted smaug, since their treasure horde would be lessened and they would grow wiser
Nope, They were greedy before the rings ever came into being. It just amplified their already existing greed as seen when the dwarves killed the elf king setting off elves- dwarf feud.
@@mihaimercenarul7467 Well yes and no. Sheer and utter devastation in physical form, but an essential deus ex machina made him a joke with dying right after he showed up
@@razorsharpview9090 The dwarves completed their work and demanded to be paid, but Thingol tried to leave them out of any pay. Thingol could've send them off with something else as payment (Thingol had plenty of loot from late Nargothrond), but instead denied dwarves any payment after their ludicrous demand for the necklace itself. Those Silmarils turned everybody greedy. Only those who didn't seek them for themselves kept their sanity. I blame the Silmaril for the first conflict between dwarves and elves. Dwarves' desire for it made them make a ridiculous demand and Thingol's desire for it made him give the insulting reply to that demand. Wanting to send the dwarves away without any payment got himself killed, and Thingol keeping the Silmaril caused the destruction of his kingdom of Doriath.
@@connarkent282 but only toward the ores and gems they dug up themselves. Rings of Power gave dwarves more energy to dig, therefore more lust for earthly loot. Khazad-dûm dwarves had no way of knowing that they shall eventually dig up a Balrog. Dragons were pests to any settlement with vast amounts of treasure. Smaug was the only one too powerful for dwarves to deal with, but all the other surviving dragons they had killed by the time of Lord of the Rings.
@@Real_Meeeee yup same with Galadriel.... the in in the movies... is fair, gorgous, gracefull.. made me a gimli in realife...the current one is guyladriel 😅😅
Ironically as flawed (but still decently enjoyable) as the Hobbit adaptation is, comparing it to the Rings of Power makes the Hobbit adaptation look like a once-in-a-lifetime masterpiece
Dwarven greed. It gets overlooked a lot in the films, but it is why they took the rings, why they died from it, why Erebor fell, and of course, why they murdered an elf king and stole his jewels. They really should've covered this better in the Hobbit, rather than a slap-dash attempt to make Elves look like jerks.
I mean Thorin was a complete moron, he didn't have to trust Thrandruil. The deal was Thranduil releases him and his company FIRST and LATER thorin gives thranduil the jewels. What an IDIOT!
@@martinsleight321 but you see, not ALL Dwarves are greedy. The line of Durin only became so after their king (whose name I don't remember) accepted the ring of power from Sauron.
@@rrb_9574 It was a fair offer. But unfortunately Thorin was distrustful. Plus he reacts badly to implied blackmail. That (and not the "dragon sickness" bollocks) is why he refused to give any of Smaug's treasure to the army besieging Erebor. In the book he makes it clear that if Bard can get rid of the elf army he would consider his claim as dragonslayer. Unfortunately Bard was in no position to do that.
@@alanpennie8013 Consider his claim ? Thats like i`ll think about it. Thorin was a hot garbage of a guy. And no yelling and bravery at the end ex machina style would convince me he was a good ruler material. Tranduil on the other hand i hold in much respect for the character.
Take the offer to be released? They could just escape, Thranduil was being to egotistical to offer any real help. Thats what set Thorin off, because yet again, the Elves were sending the Dwarves away without anything to show for it.
Thorin meets Elrond, Thorin is nasty to Elrond, Elrond feeds Thorin and translates his map and gives him a nice place to sleep. Thorin leaves without even a thank you Thorin meets Thranduil, Thorin is nasty to Thranduil. Thranduil throws Thorin in jail. Thorin wanders what he did wrong...
@@puggy7282 No. But he is in HIS land. So technically he is trespassing. And he hasn't the good sence to acknowledge this and put his pride away for the benefit of his group. Its Thorins pride that matters not the other dwarves he dragged into this and are now at the mercy of Thranduil who Thorin has literally just told to go f*** himself. Yea thats a real king right there...
@@MegaJacko4 Thranduil literally showed up at erebor with an entire army and then refused to help LMAO Id tell him to go f*ck himself too if i were dwarf. i get ur point tho
Thorin trespasses on Thranduil's doorstep. In the book, he even interrupts their Forest Feast several times. Thranduil has enough, arrests him, and promises to let Thorin and co go if they tell him what they are doing on his land. Thorin mouths off to Thranduil so Thranduil considers him an enemy and locks him up until he answers the question. Basically, if Thorin wasn't a prick then they wouldn't be in this mess.
This scene is epic, I wish the lines were executed differently, "I know its wrath and ruin...." should have come after the scar reveal. Definitely one of the best parts of the whole series. I wish they could expand on Thranduil!
Everyone complains about how selfish Thranduil was. No, he wasn't selfish; he warned Thror, Thorin's grandfather, of what his greed would do. He also knew what dragons could do, he faced them. His people went to the same thing and he knew Smaug would cause destruction to his people as they had once faced. He must have lost his wife to the dragon, explaining why there wasn't more than one throne. The look on his face showed damage, mental and physical, rememberance.
LokiLovesMe123 He lost his wife in the siege of Angband. The orc desecrated her body and stole her gems. Years later in the siege of Azadnubakhad, the dwarves won the battle and among the spoils of war, the armies of Durin found the gems and delivered them to Thror. He paraded them in front of the elves.
What about the people of Dale.What about the fact that you could throw a rock into a crowded room with elves and the chances are it would hit one that knew healing magic. All those innocent people from Dale didn’t deserve what was coming to them.
@@Degamer422 Thranduil has Sauron on his doorstep. I think Morgoth's greatest servant, so foul that the Sindar named him Gorthaur the Cruel, is quite a bit higher on the scale of Evil than one of the Uruloki.
@@sweetdream-2200 Thranduil fought the Green Serpents of The North (dragons). Merry and Pippin sing the Green Dragon song in LOTR. Edit: so apparenty Thranduil says "great serpents", not ""green serpents", but whatevs.
Their creator was told to destroy them, when he raise his hammer to smite them. The great father creator felt pity for his child creations and granted them life - but not immortal.
@@Nicole_Auriel I didn't care for them when they came. Now they have grown on me. Especially the pure dialogue scenes. The action scenes however are mostly junk, even if they are entertaining.
I feel like a lot of this scene makes more sense with the context that Thranduil's original home was destroyed by dwarves in a war that started because of greed(on both sides. Those silmarils were shiiiinneeyyyy). He was around to watch Khazad-Dûm fall to greed, and and then again with Erebor, after (and this part is solely movie based) the dwarves denied him his commission and kept the starlight gems. He gave Thorin a chance to not be greedy, and in his eyes Thorin failed. To him, dwarves are just greedy little warmongers that have pretty much just got what they've had coming(and he's also being a little petty because he's Thranduil and he can)
When you realize that the dwarves showed this guy the last memento from his wife, whom he has no body or grave to mourne over, and then they close the box in front of him and say "pay up", his bad attitude here makes total sense. It's like if the Russian mob were supposed to deliver that dog to John Wick after his wife died, but instead kept it for themselves.
the part everyone forgets is it was not just the dragons that he abandoned them to. They went to him for aid and shelter in his kingdom and he turned them away.
someone else said that in the book he actually did helped the refugees. but he refused to send an army to fight smaug (which would enter a period of inactivity) because he sees no point for that (exchanging the precious elves lifes for treasures really isn't his style).
@@MekkaSGthat is why i felt his anger. Other than that, fuck dying for gold. If they succeeded then they better get at least half. Good luck getting paid.
In the books Thorin’s family had nothing to do the theft of the jewels and as the dwarves who did pointed out they only took what Thrandual promised too but did not give them in payment for helping to make that really pretty underground palace/ stronghold.
@@ahmet_10 this one was made purely by the elves, I think the poster above is talking about the elven city of nagothrond which was made by the dwarves.
Thranduil comes up as mocking and arrogant while Thorin comes up as angry and stubborn. If both parties don't try to agree with each other then it's no wonder than the negotiations failed so quickly.
Thranduil and Oropher should have been explored by Amazon. They would have been great characters to add in the Rings of Power. But instead we have such a dumpster fire
If they do Battle of the Last Alliance, then you'll see Thranduil. I would hope if they do that though they bring Lee Pace back because he gets the character and Thranduil's complexity.
Imagine Thranduil when he finally gets a hold of Bilbo's book. He's just casually reading through and then they get to Mirkwood, with Bilbo saying remaining invisible and stealing things was the most boring part of the journey. I think Thranduil would be more offended that Bilbo wasn't entertained than him stealing from the elves.
The movies usually seem to portray Thranduil as an opponent to the dwarves, to the point of outright contradicting the book e.g. in the book he and his armies did actually help the refugees, particularly the poorer men in and around Laketown, instead of just marching back straight after arriving. Yes, he could have launched an immediate attack on Smaug, who would be inactive after acquiring such treasure for many years; but there was a good chance this would have just ruined Thranduil's kingdom as well, and gotten many of his kin killed, for nothing - and even if they won, what would it be for? Elves do not hunger for treasure in the same way that the dwarf kings (afflicted by dragon sickness/greediness) do. Having seen the battle already lost and the place in ruins, Thranduil didn't charge into the former kingdom. This can be contrasted against the near-opposite decision made by Thorin's people (then led by his grandfather) in their attempt to reclaim Morea, an attack which got many of their people killed for nothing. Trading lives for territory and/or possessions is usually a poor exchange indeed. The likelihood is, if the seven dwarven armies had rallied together, instead of bickering over what to do, to challenge Smaug, that Thranduil would have given military support at that time. Remember, it wasn't just the elves who didn't come to the dwarf king's aid that day, for their own armies failed to come for days, weeks, months, or years. Its easy to blame Thranduil for not throwing away everything in haste, but he was clearly willing to play the long game and stand at a time when it would be most effective. There's a line to be drawn between prudence and recklessness, the lack of the latter often being construed as cowardice The dwarves saw Thranduil as a coward by that one act. They did not understand him, nor did they try to. Yet, Thranduil was prepared to commit an army to aiding Thorin in raiding Erebor/Smaug's horde (distinctly different from actually fighting to kill Smaug and taking the treasure in its entirety), greatly aiding Thorin in his goal, and already recognised him as a rightful king. With the Arkenstone in Thorin's hands, as Thranduil foresaw, it would be very likely that the dwarves could have been unified once again. But instead of accepted this aid, which came at a relatively tiny price (Thranduil wants his wife's jewelry back, nothing more - and that's only if the expedition succeeded), Thorin chose to spite him to serve his own pride; for that pride, he pushed a possible powerful ally into needing to oppose him to save face in front of his people. Thorin is often his own worst enemy, a family trait at that.
I guess they felt they had to change Thranduil since he would completely overshadow Thorin, one of the main characters. Especially considering the fact that Thorin was seriously unreasonable. So the fact that Thranduil made a complete 180 in the movie sort of justifies Thorin's response to him. But that was the wrong move. Thorin was a side character to Bilbo afterall, or should have been. They should have kept Thranduil as he was, and just made his role smaller onscreen, same with Legolas. Bilbo just seems to be present with the other characters.
@@joseph906 The Extended version should be longer after seeing the deleted scenes. Once again, a result of studio interference. New Line Cinema at least gave more freedom to the director until WB bought them.
The main reason to take back not only Erebor, but Moria is that they are massive strongholds and would have been helpful against orc uprisings. Leaving a dragon alive or a balrog is naive not just on the part of the elves but the wizards as well. Had they been more proactive in defeating these threats then their would have been two much more powerful kingdoms to help in fighting Mordor years later.
Lee pace should have blown up after the hobbit . I really don’t understand what happened . Why is he not as big as Adam driver or Bradley cooper?. He’s so underrated.
Thorin had to much pride, he ignores that the Thor insulted the elves earlier. So they were never friends to begin with and thus had no real reason to help them.
Probably the best line that could’ve been used against Thranduil in regards to calling it a burglary. “You consider the notion that I would be stealing from a thief; and you would call that injustice?”
In all honestly, Thranduil was right about the fact that Thorin really knew nothing about Dragon Fire. He was around during the first age, where there were dragons who would make Smaug look like a lizard in comparison. Those Dragons could destroy kingdoms with ease, and killed countless elves during the wars against Morgoth and his forces.
Please, correct me if i am wrong, but the dwarves did steal his jewels. I emphasize on the ''stealing'' part. Thus, the dwarves were immoral, unjust, malevolent and unkind to their ''friends''. And while Thranduil warned the dwarves about what their king's greed would accomplish, causing endless death, chaos and destruction to the innocent, they ignored him, stole what was not rightfully theirs, provoked a war between the races, disrespected the elven king, humiliated him.. and Torin had the audacity of speaking about honor!? Does anyone realizes he is the evil one?
I believe that Thorin truly believed in his grandfather and was thus blinded to Thror's wrongdoings, but Thranduil remembers everything as if it just happened, since they're immortal and, like Thranduil himself said, 100 years are nothing more than mere blink in the life of and Elf, which means that Thror's betrayal and the stealing of Thranduil's wife's gems were still fresh in his mind.
Thror likely was consumed by dragon sickness. But what about his people? That had nothing to do with gems or ignored warnings? They came to his door, homeless and starving, and instead of showing sympathy and mercy, he abandoned them, with a nasty "told you so, idiots". No wonder Thorin hated him, and rightly so.
@@abraham2172 You have just used illogical excuses to justify all the dwarves wrongdoings. Thror's family arrogance, their ignorance, their lack of morality and their malevolent nature. You claimed: "Thror likely was consumed by dragon sickness'' but if a driver is drunk, and he kills an entire family, his intoxicated nature justifies his actions? Excuses them? No, of course not. And as Thror was abusing his power, and the rest of the dwarves witnessed it, what did they do? They tolerated it, and through their inactivity, they encouraged his ill intentions. Σo, as the entire dwarf collective allowed such crimes, yes, Thranduil refused to help them. Exactly as he should. Cause and effect, action and consequences. If someone insults and provokes you, and steals from you, and harms you, the equal response it completely justified. Therefore, the ''holier-than-though'' Thorin should re-examine his perception, revalue his judgement and reform is priorities. Instead of an apology, he awakened a dragon that had already spread endless death, chaos and destruction, using the childish excuse ''we want our home back.. and who cares about our actions consequences''. A true heir to that mad king!
@@vardellsfolly5200 If Thandruil helped the dwarven refugees, they might have returned his jewels in goodwill. But no. He left them hungry and homeless.
I have to say, with all this trilogy’s issues, it carried a sense of epic distance that The Rings of Power just doesn’t have, thus far. It’s not the scenery (the Rings of Power is absolutely gorgeous at times) but more the dialogue, the writing.
Elves can just manipulate their image to hide scars and damage? No wonder they always look so fair but I then question who else has such damage or marks, or the extent of their powers
