The Ice Type is not Balanced. Here’s How to Fix It 

Tbf Aurora Veil would be bonkers if any weather that wasn’t the worst had an equivalent

@@DrGandW But aurora veil is on so few pokemon that if there was an equivalent for another weather with similar distribution, I don't think it would make much of an impact.

@@ngmonster1017 not really fam other weathers are so strong that otherwise horrendously bad pokemon became meta simply for getting a weather setting ability ex: pelipper bumping into relevance with drizzle. Other weathers have always been dominant and had to have complex bans every single meta. a rain equivalent of aurora veil for example would break the meta.

@@ngmonster1017 imagine a rain team with greninja,and mega swampert/scizor But with aurora veil

@@neyo231 as a Gen 1 fan I strongly dislike when someone says things like "break the meta". It's not breaking, it's changing, redefining, transforming... It, hopefully, always be that way that some pokemon are stronger than others. More rain teams? It's fine! You don't complain how all teams have Intimidate, don't you? And isn't it more interesting to play when every new generation you deal with some new OP thing? Like in Gen 8 it's intimidate, in Gen 9 it's rain, in Gen 10 it's Normal types, In Gen 11 it's Mewtwo and Gen 12... who needs Gen 12 if Mewtwo is OP in Gen 11? (I know it's restricted, just kidding)

It’s actually kinda true though- ice is considered a mineral geologically

@@nutbustulon well, you learn something new everyday.

@@nutbustulon there is something called Ice 7 that never melts

@@nutbustulon that doesnt really prove anything, as water itself is a mineral as well

Ice, Rock and Steal are all some kind of rigid more or less crystalline based structures, so I think he has a point.

It should resist grass, ground, and dragon as well. Since ice does super effective damage to those three.

@@Momo-xs8mo at that point ice would be way too overpowered and it wouldn't make sense thematically

@@sahilshaji5709 if you take out the changes to the fire and water interactions those changes are reasonable

Scald shouldn't do as much damage as fire but shouldn't do as little as water types. So scald doing 1.5x to ice types makes sense. It's boiling hot water which melts ice at a rate slower than fire but faster than water. And idk about resisting ground or dragon types but resisting grass does make sense.

@@Momo-xs8mo Grass type doesn’t need to be made even weaker.

good news

you got your wish

And the DOT is removed so snow teams don’t force mono-ice! :D

great news for you

@Michael Harris useless. The first comment said it

Please don’t buff Scald. If anything, nerf its base power but make it SE on ice, so that it’s only used for that situation instead of just being a really good move anywhere

Scald being super effective on ice but having its burn chance reduced or removed would be good, IMO.

what if ice types couldnt be burnt since they're made of ice cant burn ice

@@phealtalk I mean water types can still be burnt so probably not.

I think it would be better to just make a different move that functions like freeze dry for water types rather than touching scald or steam eruption

I agree. There are very few steel pokemon that are just static solid steel, most involve moving parts or at least parts of the body are steel-y. The only exception I can think of is Steelix where the tail is just one metallic mass.

Ice actually makes steels much more brittle. Not just because of the mechanical properties but the shear temperature of ice will make steel harder but much more brittle, therefore more likely to crack. It's the reason the Titanic sunk, its a combination of the low temperature and then the fracture from the impact from the glacier it crashed into. I never understand why ice is weak to steel, it should be the opposite.

@@foxmccloudizsexy *sheer

what if hail made it resist both, but if hail wasnt set up it would be weak to both

I’d actually make Fire and ice super effective against each other cuz that just seems so interesting

Yes! I'd love to see him come up with his own type.

Agree! What's the best new type that could fit into the chart, and maybe add balances to some of the types that could get a buff from that also

milk gang

I’d like to see him tackle the concept of Sound type. It could give the Whismer and Noivern lines something more interesting in their toolkit.

I wonder how he'd deal with a Glass type. There's much potential there and he's not stuck to just Pokémon that look extremely glass like. It could also be ceramic or brittle rock or whatever else. It could give us an interesting dynamic and maybe finally give us another type that's strong against Electric types.

One of the worst is probably Avalugg... And if it's not the one from Kalos hisuian Avalugg definitely is the one you looking for...

@@cannabishornliu6119 "Hey, how do we make Avalugg better?" "Double it's weaknesses and give it 38 speed." "Brilliant!"

@@alibekzholaman2923 Yeah, hisuian Avalugg is a downgrade to Avalugg.

@@cannabishornliu6119maybe that was the point. Idk

​@@alibekzholaman2923"also make its pitiful Special Defence even worse lmao"

I've always thought the exact the exact same thing, a complete rework and renaming of the Freeze stat would be perfect. I always thought of the name being Frostbite too, since it'd make no need to change the current icons for the status. Only difference is I thought it could work as a reverse burn in that it'd reduce Defence instead of SpAtk. This way we'd have a status condition for crippling attackers and a status condition for crippling walls, not to mention it'd also compliment Ice Type's offensive nature.

I disagree, I think the frozen status should be able to happen more often (in terms of moves that can inflict the status) and the actual state of being frozen should be less RNG. In other words instead of treating the frozen status like the burn status treating it akin to the sleep status. There should be a chance each turn to unthaw but a guaranteed on turn 2 or 3 similar to sleep that way a player can't be frozen for 10+ turn but there's still counter play with fire moves, scald, etc.

I like that change for freeze, although it'd certainly be too much with the hail change suggested in the video

I don't mind Freeze (though I'd make it a single turn status, as in you can only be Frozen for 1-2 turns if inflicted by it). I do like the idea of a Frostbite or Chilled condition affecting SPA the way Burn affects ATK.

Sounds interesting.

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Yessirr, was gonna comment sth like this but u summed it up pretty well

@@yukotrey9422 I have. I’ve been subscribed for a few years now.

@@averytubestudios lol I was being over the top. You good

Just make ice resist Dragon and water.

Ice really ought to resist grass. Water should lose ice resistance, but this one might make ice too powerful offensively.

@@attheratehandle bruh grass is already a very resisted type (seven types) , no need to give ice a useless resistance.

@@attheratehandle yea offensively, ice isn't lacking, maybe in the physical department but certainly not the special department. Defense is the issue for it.

@@rabeechowdhury ooh yea thats true, would certainly be a bad change.

How does Fire doing neutral damage to Ice make sense? Low temp is vital to Ice's nature fundamentally. If you want to get rid of Ice, wjat do you do? You warm it up. That makes thematic sense to me and I can't think of a way to explain to children why this wouldn't work in game 😂

@@friendlyanomaly6109 they meant ice to fire, not the other way around

@@rudywilk100 Even then. Try explaining to a kid that Fire doesn't resist Ice.

@@friendlyanomaly6109 jeez. Show them this video then

@@rudywilk100 Nah g nah.

I don't think I saw one change that involves making a move more inaccurate. To be fair, having some more reliable moves is always nice, and lowering the accuracy is a downgrade, which goes against the video topic, but it would be neat to see more unwieldy yet powerful moves mixed in with the more reliable ones.

...and I completely agree with that. There are plenty of additional effects an attack can have to make it more unique or weaker. Plain random misses are not the best way to balance a move, so I think lower then 100% accuracy should be rare. Think about Overheat or Flare blitz for example.

l think it's not necessarily trying to make all moves more accurate (although more accuracy is always more better obviously), but l think it's important to have at least one well-distributed 100% accurate stab-move with good (80~90) base power in both the physical and special category. It's fine to not have all moves be 100% accurate, but you should have the option to choose whether you want perfect accuracy or more power, and physical-ice types were kinda forced to choose for inaccuracy,, same thing with physical-rock moves :]

I liked that initially, but then I realized it would buff water defensively more than ice, and water doesn't need that it's bulky enough.

i live in Alaska, and have had batteries drained from the cold itself(i didn't know this was a thing until it actually started happening)

pure water is actually a good insulator, it's when you have impurities and electrolytes in that water when it begins to conduct electricity

Kumamon/Korikakumon/AncientMegatheriummon Is The Best Ice Digimon!GREAT SNOWPLOW!😁😁

by that logic it should indeed resist fire; why are igloos made of ice? it has a really poor heat conductivity. its true that flamethrowers are commonly use to melt ice/snow but even then it can take a long time wich would not happened in the middle of a battle

that would be pretty broken

@@kxngrxse1562 not really, -1 speed is 66%, so it would be like a worse version of sticky web

@@deadlyviper_ and ice types normally canon glasses, they're already fast and hit hard, their enemies being a little slow, isn't going to make to much difference, unless u are up against another glass canon, than ice maybe should be in advantage being such a bad type.

We can make another move. Icicle trap. Does 1/16 HP damage and lowers speed by 1 stage upon switch in. Does 1/8 HP damage under hail. Ice types will absorb the icicle trap upon switching in and heal for 1/8 of max HP. Wolfey doesn't talk about moves like this because entry hazards are almost never used in VGC, but this might help out ice types in singles.

@@90Rush That's also a super toxic entry hazard. Hazards in general are mostly unused in vgc and overly centralise the meta in singles. Something like that wouldn't be terribly healthy

You can justify running an ice pokemon for the end game of gs/hgss. They still have the same weaknesses, but Clair and Lance both being dragon give them a use. Weavile, in particular, can be built to sweep both of them in hg/ss with ice punch, surf and steel claws (or steel type cut if you're running one of the popular romhacks)

I agree. Little kids are never going to understand or accept that change.

I could see a grass and bug resistance too and even a normal one but I feel like we're making bad types worse at that point also to add to this under his assumption fire also has to be immune to flying so we're just nerfing flying

@@manguy01 eh anyone can learn. I've just come back to the series (last game was Platinum) and the fairy typing still gives me issues, it feels so... arbitrary. Like 1/2 damage to fire wtf? So honestly you could justify it by asking kids why there aren't forest fires in the winter (tldr it's snow)

flying resistance? no, i prefer ghost type resistance, since ghost more dangerous in attack, while flying attack can be replaced by fire and pyschic

@@richard35791 ghost would make zero sense and if Pokemon was realistic ghost types would be immune to everything besides evil (dark) type and ghost and then maybe fairy is neutral everything else couldn't effect it well besides the fact that psychic should be super effective against ghost (psychics can supposedly talk to ghosts and therefore probably know their weaknesses)

be better for pure ice type to get a heal when hit by water or ice type pokemon the duel type do not really need that advantage due to having more help from second typing.

That is also a nerf to Ice though, I'm not sure I like their STAB move getting an immune type is a good way to buff the type

​@@natstar7864 That would be crazy hard to understand, being the only type with an interaction that impactful and the only type interaction that doesn't apply to multitypes. I'd give it something more in line with Dark types being immune to prankster moves, perhaps Ice types can freeze themselves in place so they are immune to phasing moves like roar, whirlwind, or dragon tail. Or the opposite may work, if you hit an Ice type with a pivot move like U-turn or Volt Switch you don't switch out.

They can do that as well as add Ice type version of Stealth Rocks. That will kill some dragons on the ranking.

@@everretwavince1843 bro that's a good ass idea

Would love an evolution of jynx that is a Medusa type that has an ability to freeze when hit with a physical move. And this would make Magma Armor and the other abilities like it actually usable.

Oh hell no keep that away from me

#gen1

How to balance this: Make the Frozen status last at max two turns

@@ExcalibeonSwordofEeveelutions So, make ðe Frozen Status last less ðan ðe Sleep Status?

Water dilutes poison, making it literally less effective

Yes to be honest. I would assume that fire just melts ice.

@@kasper7250 Yeah, but then the ice turns into water and, well...

@@VultureSausage Not in this case because we talk about creatures not objects.

Yeah, the fire thing was the only thing I disagreed on. I was thinking ground would be a better choice and would fit the hail-defense buff better since ground has a lot of physical moves anyway, versus fire's more special bend. Maybe even shift rock down to neutral damage, because that one seems a bit odd too.

@@VultureSausage Ice is a lot less dense than liquid water so the amount of water that'd be there after melting the ice wouldn't be anywhere close enough to deal with the fire. Wolfy's thematic point on fire and ice was fairly scientifically flawed, which is fine because he recognized that and it was a valiant attempt.

It’s unfair that it’s not there already

It's the only weather in the game that does not modify stats or damage income/outcome, like sunny day boosting fire damage, rain boosting water damage, and sandstorm boosting S. Def. I have no idea why Gamefreak haven't decided to balance this out, the only thing I can think of is Aurora Veil, but even that has very sparse distribution, really only A. Ninetales can use it reliably now.

I guess its big selling point is perfect accuracy blizzards. But then again rain gets both thunder and hurricane on top of a water buff.

Your wish is gamefreaks command

Its in the game now :)

Ice is less dense than water, so it can theoretically never penetrate a water types defenses

@@ryanoak9 it can also theoretivally freeze the water

@@ryanoak9 Wouldn't this go both ways tho, I would understand it if both had a resistance to each other but only water?

@@ThatSpiritMystic Exactly, that's why Wolfey said that ice resisting water makes sense, since water resists ice. Which thematically, makes sense if one has more mass than the other. Sort of.

We don’t need to get that scientific, because I’m sure there’s a lot of type interactions that don’t hold up in that manner, or require great stretches of the imagination. Can’t we just accept all the common examples in media where ice freezes water without any issue at all, and say that making ice SE on water just follows common public perception?

Maybe a move called Ice Edge that works like Stone Edge

They actually have now added a proper physical attack for they type: Ice Spinner.

I feel like you can't buff poison too much as it's already a pretty good defensive type, has immunity to a status effect and is one of two types that hit one of the strongest types in the game super effectively.

Make it strong against Water and maybe buff a physical move or two

@@BlackPenzo Gunk shot being more accurate would be great

@@hairmonster This makes me wonder how poison/dark combination would be combated if poison is strong against ground as well lol, idk even

Make it super effective against Bug again because pesticides.

There should be one for every type that would provide a resistance to Ice simply because that would be a neat way for some Pokémon to fight back. The most effective would be one affecting Steel. Now Corviknight and Skarmory are no longer safe against that Ice type.

Have now finished the video, I like the flying resistance, though I think the fire type stuff is bit too far. I’m glad I’m not the only one to think that ice types should get a hail buff!

What I did for a ROM hack I'm playing is remove Steel's resistance to it (as well as resisting water). Steel can get brittle in the cold.

It should resist grass and ground because it hits them for 2x damage The cold can freeze the ground solid, making it impossible to dig The cold can also freeze plants straight through, killing them

@@Momo-xs8mo Exactly, grass and ground make sense, also Poison optionally. But that'd mess up Grass even more...

Aww that was my idea.

mayhaps...

ZACIAN USE CLOSE COMBAT does 2% to avalugg under hail

Yes, they should have implemented that alongside the sandstorm sp def buff

this is such a great idea, shame game freak refuse to listen to fans

We need this!

a mimikyu like could work were the first fire tipe move that hits does a base amount of damage and transforms it

That’s a really cool idea, and would make a lot more ice types viable if they add this to already existing moms. Something like changing it’s type to water on a super effective move or harsh sunlight, which would counter both fire and rock Type-changing abilities, while probably niche, is such an interesting concept that it’s a shame we haven’t seen much of it

@@xdelbarrio like a regional form of mimikyu, that would be sick. Maybe a Hisuan DLC for the snow biomes where they discover a cave or sm and find hisuan mimikyu with this exact typing. Could be sick

Please someone do this

Only up to stage 2. Up to that point I always agreed, but both in this vid and Bug one I think Stage 3 changes are bad both thematically and gameplay wise.

That would be immense

@@TheSpartanS196 Yeeeep. Stage 2 makes the types powerful without making them completely broken or stupid sounding. Ice type would benefit a lot with a Water, Flying and maybe a Ground resist, hail buff and that's it.

@@TheSpartanS196 Bug's stage 3 didn't seem all that powerful- but yeah. As he said in the video- he went a bit too far with stage 3 on ice types

Definitely. Maybe Brine too

Not really sense water naturally resistant to changes in tempature Water actually melts ice faster than ice freezes water Ever wonder why people run water over frozen food to thaw it

@@ethribin4188 Eehh, can you explain why out of all moves, Brine should get such treatment?

@@TunaBear64 Brine is salt water, and salt is commonly used to melt ice by lowering its melting point.

Either that or make them resistant to each other anyway. If you throw ice at a big enough fire, the ice is just going to evaporate and not even partially mitigate the fire. Similarly, a fire attack needs to be constant pressure in order to melt the ice, as opposed to the short Poguminz attacks I'd expect. I ... can't quite justify making Fire and Ice _immune_ to each other based on that rule. It kinda has its limits.

@@RaceBandit Ice isn't always literally ice, it's sometimes coldness. It makes sense to fire to resist it and fire to be effective against it.

Hence, Neutrality...

Yes, this is really interesting

No ,steel shouldnt be resistance to ice

Yeah. It always felt unfair in my opinion that basically every water mon is able to know some ice moves

Plus there's already a bit of precedence for this with how they've greatly reduced the number of Pokemon able to learn toxic, from nearly every Pokemon in the game to now mostly poison types plus some others, which is much more fitting

Or make more moves mutually exclusive in general (not through breeding). Or maybe limit the number of TM/Tutor moves every pokemon can learn unless it's a very special pokemon like Mew so more of them are forced to use their level up moves. Gen 8 already removed Hidden Power so many pokemon needs to look for coverage moves elsewhere, this one might also be a good change.

@@silverkyrie4714 spot on, i suggested the idea of toxic/toxic spikes and stealth rocks becoming exclusive moves to their typings but people said its a bad idea, it would boost their usage a ton. Why the F does Blissey get stealth rock?

This is so huge. A change that doest mess with anyting but the movepool, This is something that gamefreak could actually implement without it being crazy

Same. Steel is my favorite type, but it's a more defensive type. Losing super effective to Ice type would not ruin steel at all

So the tiny offensive damage Steel has is removed because Ice is a bad defensive type. doesn't make alot of sense, even moreso considering fire beating ice is just logical sense.

I disagree because you destroy ice with metal No thanks for this change I do agree with wolfeys changes except the hail bonus which should be plus 25 percent to defense n special defense That way it gets its own identity n not a carbon copy of rock

In addition, the Fire weakness still makes a lot of sense due to fire's heat just melting through the ice.

@@nautgamingnautgaming9949 the carbon copy is needed because it's the polar opposite, rock get SP.DEF in sand, while ice would get DEF in hail.

I would make it super effective against water. I know it’s not defensive but still

@@dominicbyron5944 buffing water type Pokemon isn't really a wise idea.

Add more resistances

Ice should resist flying because if a bird tries to crash into an iceberg... it dies.

I’d start by fixing the lack of an apostrophe in the video title, jk. But seriously I’d agree with Dominic but add one more thing, make it SE to both Rock and Water. Leave the rock weakness, make it a symmetrical weakness in acknowledgment of freeze cycles breaking rocks. I don’t mind it being a purely offensive type, much like Bug being a decent defensive type but garbage on offense. Also, make Aurora Veil not need hail as another defensive buff. Resisting Grass is also only natural too

Agree with all of this. Maybe a few Ghost types could learn it too because ghosts give shivers to people.

All these sounds very good. Only thing I would add is that I feel a lot of Ice Types need better stat allocation, as many Ice Types have weird or bad stat allocation for what their alleged gameplay design is going for

​@@GoinGreninja I like 'shiver' as a status name

These buffs would be perfect. I would add that frostbite should reduce the power of special attack moves, just like how burn reduces the power of physical attack moves.

I like the frostbite effect. But i do think it could be added as an extra effect next to freeze. Maybe instead of burn like (atk drop) it could be an allround stat dropper (ATTACK + DEFENSE + SPEED). Seeing as your whole body is affected being below temperature. I also think fire should do neutral dmg. And ice should deal neutral dmg to fire and water. Seeing as fire and water can be put out and get frozen by a strong amount of cold. And a glaciar doesnt melt due to a campfire. In this sense the greater value of the element would win a conflict hence the neutral status

Plus it would be neat to have more options to deal with Shadow Ball spam.

Ghosts are gaseous, and gases condense under cold temperatures.

I'd give it a heavy resistance to water, outside of one. Scald. Because that move would function more like a fire move, with it being burning water. Therefore causing that move to deal neutral damage.

Fair, and it would also be a real nice counter to shadow rider calyrex if it was done since astral barrage would doil much less

@@Zynet_Eseled That sounds like a cool concept, but I think Scald needs nerfs, not buffs. It's already the most spammable move in the game, and now it has one more type advantage compared to every other water move?

idk about being super effective against bug types. From a competitive stand point, bug type is already pretty bad so it is a uneccesary stab at them. Also, you'd be surprised how many bugs either are not that affected or even use the cold to their advantage. True, bugs are not often out in the cold, but that's because it leaves them vulnerable, not because it hurts them.

Antarctic midges, one of the only decently sized animals to live full time in the frozen wastes of antarctica:

i wouldnt nerf the bugs

Bugs will be nerfed a lot then. Problem is Ice type pokemons ar few and they arent strong so their base power should be increasing. Types and there weakness that I'd be giving(copied fron notepad)- FIRE- Water, Ground, Rock, Air WATER- Grass, Electric, Poison GRASS- Fire, Bug, Ice, Air POISON- Psychic, Ground ICE- Fire, Rock, Fight, Steel ELECTRIC- Ground GROUND- Water, Bug, Ice, Grass STEEL- Fire, Electric, Ground, Sound, Fight GHOST- Dark, Ghost AIR- Rock, Ice, Electric PSYCHIC- Ghost, Bug, Dark, Sound FAIRY- Steel, Poison, Dark, Sound BUG- Poison, Fairy, Rock, Fire, Air FIGHT- Air, Psychic, Fairy, DARK- Bug, Fight, Fairy ROCK- Steel, Water, Fight, Ground, Grass DRAGON- Ice, Steel, Fairy NORMAL- Fight, Dragon SOUND- Water, Grass, Rock [REASON: Changing the name of Flying type to Air type, Fighting to Fight type. Air should be super effective(SE) against Fire as strong Wind can blow fire. Steel can conduct electricity more than Water. Poison should be SE against Bug and water coz people use insecticides in the field and home to keep away bugs. Poison also means pollution, water can be polluted. But not giving Air pollution coz all creatures take breath from air not only birds. Sound moves 15 times faster(5150 m/s) in steels than Air, so sound is SE against Steel. Sound is SE against Psychic & Fairy. Coz psychic's cant concentrate due to noise and Fairies have a weak nerves. Sound weak against water coz water muffles sound. Also nobody can create sound underwater coz if u open mouth to create sound, water will get into your mouth. Grass is SE against sound coz cotton can isolate sound, trees can block some sound and trees are quiet. Rock should be SE against Sound becoz hills and walls can reflect sound. Also Poison will be immune to sound coz generally poisonous snakes hearing range is too low(10 - 600HZ only). Dragon should be weak against steel instead of dragon coz at the end, the knight slays the dragon. Also there is no strong logic for dragon weak to dragon rather dragon vs dragon rivalry ends so early in battle which doesn't give fun. Giving dragon SE against Normal just to give dragon strength. Dark and Fairy both should be SE against each other coz angels and Evils both works against each other and wants to harm. Also "good will always prevail" this already applies for fighting so no need fairy again and this is not correct everytime. Fairy SE against Bug coz fairies also means light (angels are created by light) and light attract bugs. Also bug should be SE against ground coz bugs dig holes in ground to make colonies.]

Well about that agreed but i think they should nerf the moveset of some water type pokemon. Because most water type mons can use ice moves while it can't be the same for ice. So Starmie uses Ice Beam and Blizzard while Jynx can't use Surf or Hydro pump. So Water basically has a coverage for grass while Ice doesn't have coverage for Fire. And water the way it is now just nerfs ice to its second, like Steel does to Rock, Fighting does to Normal, and i have to say Grass to Poison since Poison moves can't be used against Steel while Spore or Stun Spore which are Grass can do damage, and Toxic can be learned from any Grass Pokemon plus Grass can recover. Electric are also nerfed that way since thunder wave can be learned from many pokemon. And i think this is the main issue some types and some pokemon have too extensive learnset which comes at a cost to other types.

shit you right i never thought of it that way lmfao

well, most ice types aren't literally ice, while most rock types are made of rock for the most part.

Ice should resist Water, Flying, Dragon, Ground, and Ice imo. It shouldn’t resist grass just because of how bad the grass type already is.

You can apply this logic to every type. Normal just becomes the worst type in the game.

@@galarstar052 Okay yeah but if Lycanroc can resist Normal, then Avalugg _absolutely_ should.

I never got why water resisted ice. Surely it would be the other way round, since cold temperatures freeze water and not many sea creatures live in cold temperatures?

@@ahumanbeingfromtheearth1502 Wolfey even made the analogy. If you throw a cube of ice in the sea, it would melt and just turn into more water. Water and Ice should be like Bug and Fighting where they both resist each other, since water in cold temperatures would also turn into ice.

@@Koenig_Luiz yeah, I like his explanation for why both should resist each other, but if only one could have a resistance to the other it would make far more sense for it to be ice than water

Yea, to me the ground resist makes more sense than ditching the fire weakness. With the Hail buff, Ice Types could tank so many EQs

That double contraction is revolutionary

could add a move like Aqua Ring, which restores HP during Rain

@@coebaltraizure6137 aqua ring dont need rain to restore hp

Pokemons with ice body = double leftovers? idk how much ice body heals

@@user-nq4ng1ul1q Ice Body is 1/16 HP recover every turn

Nice one

Seems so

Poison gang rise up!

I agree with major buffs to poison like defensively it's really STRONG but offensively it is garbage and needs significant buffs Like GEN 1 had it right when poison nuked bugs but it should also HIT WATER super effective too We'd also give bugs the change to hit water super effective and immunity to dark I'd also make it a tier but have a high skill cap to compensate

Team Koga since day 1

they would need to add a new move to mirror Stone Edge then

Yeah making it a spread move is kinda a double edged sword because of the damage reduction. You'd need a good single target physical ice move first

@@deadlyviper_ Ice Spikes

The main issue with lighting a fire in a snowstorm has more to do with the high wind speeds

Fun fact in Gen I fire type didn’t resist Ice

Like someone else said, I dont think it would be THAT crazy since Fire type didnt originally resist Ice anyways, that was a Gen 2 change. Setting that aside, while its true that its a typical game (especially RPG) convention, I dont think that necessarily makes it obligatory to follow, Pokemon already kinda does its own thing sometimes, if they followed every other common RPG element rule Electric would be weak to Water too.

@@Begeru to be fair tho, gen 1 was super broken lol

Ice pokemon also need cold to survive. Fire is just heating them. It should actually damage them. Pokemon are not huge icebergs like he was talking lol. But i can see why fire can be damaged with ice but it's a game water already is the fire weakness. We don't need another one.

I'd love to see that. Poison is my favorite type

How about making Poison-Attacks super effective against the Fighting-Type? No matter how strong your body is, a terrible sickness withers it down from the inside out.

IMO poison should be strong vs fighting and dragon types.

I think it should beat water. Pollution, chemicals, all that jazz destroys water and fish. Plus it would make one of the worst types beat one of the best types. That change alone would be amazing.

Was looking for this. I really like poison types, the only competitive team i ever made was a mono poison team (Gengar, Nidoking, Drapion, Weezing, Tentacruel, Toxicroak) but it is an underwhelming type for sure

I would have ice resist electric, flying, ground and water

@@majesticgothitelle1802 would be pretty cool if it did.

@@rabeechowdhury I do like the frostbite static in legend Arceus. If they replace frozen with frostbite it would give the game a much needed special attackers Nerf the game heavenly needed.

I might be biased do to my love of grass types, but I don't think ice should resist grass. Not only is grass tied with rock for the most weaknesses, but it's already resisted by 7 types. Not to mention there are plenty of plants and trees that survive and thrive in cold weather.

@@Falkaisis you right grass and rock have way too much things that are risist after conversation with others people with buffing ice - type. We all agree with ice should be resistance to electric, flying ground and water. Plus removing frozen do to how lackluster it his as a status condition and pretty rare to activate. Frostbite work perfect as a Nerf too many special attacks pokemon that are being played. All there left is to make a special version of intimidate.

Another problems that Ice types seem to have is that a lot of Ice Pokemon, outside of the likes of Mamo, Weaville, Kyrugem, have really bad and weird stat allocation

@@theimpersonator7086 usually spdef

How common do you see the ice type weekness is like a big pain... once it's got a dual type, many time it overlaps into a 4 time...

The main problem is that the majority of ice types have bad speed stats, usually around 50-60 which needs major investment for slush rush and doesn't even work that well on trick room

Yea, theres weaviles whos fast but if its get outsped it cant do anything

Yeah then it could be like a reverse freeze-dry

too bad now only volcanion can learn it.

True, but at present there are no Pokémon which can have both Technician and Frost Breath except Smeargle, who's not exactly hurting for options.

Like the other commenter pointed out this is an argument that I actually agree with you on in theory, but disagree on in practice. You aren't wrong in the broad sense, but in the specific case of the proposed Freeze-Dry change and its association with Technician then the actual functional changes that would happen are literally as close to zero as it's possible to get since only one Pokemon would be affected in any way. That said, I also think there's a good argument to be made for increasing the variety of, as you call them, "primary attacking moves" available. As an example, one of my favorite changes they ever made was removing Return because it was such an obvious "best choice" as far as Normal physical STABs go. With it gone now there's more variety in who uses which moves since, even though none of them are as good as Return was, now the options behind choosing which one to use are more interesting. As it stands I think Ice is in the same boat as Ice Beam and Blizzard really are the only two options used as core special attacking moves, so adding in just a bit more competition there with Frost Breath I don't think would be a bad thing.

There are no Ice types with Technician and very few special attackers, so I don't think it would matter that much.

@@connaeris8230 They can just give them that ability and those moves

@@CodenameJD @Connaeris Actually I thought of that fact. But that only accounts for the present, not the future. And more importantly (and I didn’t phrase it well so my bad there), technician isn’t the center of my comment. My argument is that 60 seems to be the threshold between primary attacking moves and moves which’s primary use is its secondary effect. Moves over that threshold usually have a secondary effect that you don’t count on in your gameplan. If you’re using Ice beam, thunderbolt and flame thrower (or blizzard, thunder and fireblast) in your moveset, you aren’t counting on landing a status condition. You don’t run psychic or shadow ball or moonblast or muddy water only because of the stat drop chance. Meanwhile if you’re using electroweb or nuzzle or icy wind or breaking swipe or snarl, or rock tomb or mud shot or bulldoze Or heck even fake-out, especially fake-out, you’re counting on the secondary effect. I haven’t seen aincent power very often, and the Pokémon I saw it on I don’t think had any other rock-type coverage. But I’m pretty darn sure that ancient power wouldn’t have been in the moveset if it didn’t have that slim chance of the secondary effect activating. And If you’re using frost breath, generally it’s because you want to self-activate anger point. There’s a trade off between power and utility for moves that aren’t exclusive or rare at around 60 base power(and then there’s Kyrem’s signature move wich is somehow just a worse icy wind). Past 95 there’s generally a trade off between power and either accuracy (unless the move is a signature move, and sometimes even if it is(looking at you groudon and kyogre) or stat drops or loosing a turn. If you make Frost breath reliably do the same damage as ice beam, you effectively make ice beam completely irrelevant on all Pokémon that get frost breath. Which again you do you, but there’s a reason some moves are capped at the base damage they are. But by moving the base power of frost breath somewhere in between 60 and that other number, suddenly its in the weird tier of that 65-75 range: moves that have a cool but low-chance not-always-helpfull utility that you would rather just have a more powerful move. If you’re using smart strike, you’re generally not using it because of its accuracy negation, but because you don’t have Iron head. If you’re using cross poison, you’re generally not using it because of it’s higher crit rate but because you don’t get poison jab, or don’t want to risk your luck with gunk shot. And then there’s skitter smack. You don’t use skitter smack. I tried once on a support charjabug(using its battery ability to boost Kyogre) but using bug bite to steal my enemies’s health berries was more useful than lowering their spattk(partially because of how slow charjabug is). And while chargabug doesn’t get this move, the move struggle bug would have likely been more useful on another Pokémon, as this lowers the spattk of both opponents. Even infestation traps tour opponents in. And all of these other moves? 60 Base power or less. I really wish there were more moves in the odd 65-75 range like scorching sands and burning jealousy, wich seem to be added to teams for their secondary effects almost as much as they are for damage and coverage. Secondary effects that strike a middle ground but aren’t kinda worthless most of the time like other moves. Parabolic Charge is unique. Problem is the Pokémon that gets it is very frail but has a gameplan where it hits so hard that you really really should use moves with a higher base power. Sucker Punch is I guess also in this range but executed well. Priority move that’s really used because it can actually do good damage, but with a trade off that sometimes it wont work. Freeze dry is also a good example in this range. Giving up 20 base power for the ability to hit water types. Suddenly Water types that thought they were safe aren’t. Gastrodon, Dracovish, *4 get outta here! So I could probably keep going for a good while, but mainly, Technician is an ability that is supposed to exploit that existing system- a system that I believe raising frost breath above 60 Base Power would not agree with- but I recognize that my assessment could easily be wrong, and even if my assessment isn’t wrong, that having a few moves outside of that system isn’t going to break the game. In fact I think signature moves like fiery dance or rare moves like extreme speed that break this system are good because they break up the monotony and make each Pokémon just a little more special, so long as they’re not easy to come by. And while a move that only one type can use is kinda rare depending on the type (looking at you, water and normal) I don’t feel like it’s rare enough to justify breaking the system for. So my argument isn’t about technician specifically, not only because singling out one ability for a single move is a stupidly not-impactful problem even if technician Pokémon did get frost breath, but because the underlying power balance of moves is important and something I never really thought about as hard as I did today And for my last thing I’d like to mention is that frost breath has a fighting type counterpart. I think it’s called storm throw. Always crits. Methinks that these should remain parallel. So if the base power of FB is increased, than ST should also be increased by the same amount. I don’t have an appealing reason I just think so

Not necessarily as it’s not a mineral based structure

@@jmurray1110 I've had this debate before, it is a mineral

@@jmurray1110 It is a mineral

Considering both Bug and Ice was covered, it would be fun to see Frosmoth as the starter. I mean, it would get benefits from both bug and ice buffs! Depending on which stage of buffs are applied, I imagine Frosmoth could go anywhere from "pretty good" to "hilariously powerful". Bonus points if the rom hack somehow implements the different stages as a difficulty setting!

Lol came here to say this. Might be a really interesting change competitively as a lot of ice/water dual types would appreciate the change.

Well, that would also open a new electric move, that would bypass that. As far as I know, every insulator also have breakdown voltage point, from which would allow conduction. Supereffectiveness of this move on Ice (and probably Steel) would make sense, if the Ice type resisted Electric. There also this Supraconductivity thing that I don't know how to apply (don't quite understand how that works: Apparently, no electric resistance and levitation on a smaller scale, while close to absolute zéro. Feel free to correct me on that). Anyway, I'm in for an Ice type resistant to Water, Ice, Electric and Flying. Would do just fine for me.

@@NerdHerder545 Yeah, finally ice as a secondary type for waters wouldn't just be a sentencing to little competitive use. It would at least remove one weakness where it adds two others.

@@luxiwayfarer369 Superconductivity (supra- in many languages) is a cool idea to use, for sure. In nature, it would require a specific type of material (usually a metal or a particular type of ceramic). It's a bit harder to think of a move that would fill the role; it feels more like a passive ability that a rock and/or steel type would have. Especially a mon like Probopass or Alolan Golem. I imagine it would be like motor drive but when hit by ice moves. Maybe the electric move that would be super effective against ice types would involve melting the ice or ionizing it to make it conductive.

Yeah but no chip damage :(

Given that a lot of the defensive ice types are Ice/water types, having a 4x resistance to Ice and water and an extra 50% defence in hail is probably going overboard on top of their base stats.

@@bigfudge2031 Hail doesn't give any boosts tho? Unless you're talking about Aurora Veil

@@brucewayne8550 you could figure out what they're talking about if you watch the video

@@blissfulstatic2563 I thought he was replying specifically to my comment, didn't know the context was the video since I think Wolfe already explained it so I didn't make mention of it. I had a completely different concern which is part of the Ice type's overall problem, not just the typing itself but even the kind of stats Gamefreak pairs with it. Two different contexts, since this vid IS about fixing the Ice type

Yeah, give me my ice type kartana gamefreak!

Can we please just cut the realistic bs and make ice SE on water types? Water can more than handle it, and plenty of games use the fire/ice/water relationship. I’m wondering whether ice having a defense buff in hail is the best thing that can be done for it, assuming it doesn’t get any new resistances. It’s a bit crazy but I kinda wish they could universally get a speed or evasion buff (and axe the abilities that otherwise grant those buffs) in hail. Might be too OP though, especially on dual types that don’t suffer some of ice type’s usual burdens lol

@@emblemblade9245 Haha, well I have good news for you about hail!

Ngl I think Ice should resist all 4 of the types weak to it but then again I don't want to gut Grass even further lmao

The same applies to having defenses against the cold. Since heat and cold are the result of how much energy is in an area then whoever wins is the side that has the greater energy difference.

It's often said though that a bunch of ice-types make ice that doesn't actually melt as easily as it's supposed to, and can easily and persistently create extremely low temperatures or flash-freeze things. Cold is really just an absence of heat, so in slightly more scientific terms, they're not simply "making cold", they're doing that by being very good at getting rid of heat. Also, to look at the line of "the ice pokemon is just a target, and independently has no defenses" Then by extension of that line, most water mons wouldn't resist fire, since they're mostly not literally water, they'd all face a major danger of dehydrating, and many real aquatic/amphibious creatures are in fact not good with smoke inhalation or pollutants either. However, I still don't treat any stage 3 stuff as being "I think GF could get away with actually doing it now", in either the bug video or this one. At that point, to me it's more like "stuff that would be fun to consider if Pokemon were remade from the ground up"

maybe not remove the fire weakness of ice, and just make ice moves super effective against fire. right? better yet, going on about how ice is similar to steel and rock. let's make ice resistant to bug, additionally we can make ice resistant to grass, maybe even normal types too.

@@gesundheitoh814 fire and ice being neutral to each other makes sense due to the nature of temperature and isn't too disruptive. Ice resisting grass and bug honestly doesn't make much sense beyond surface level reasoning. There are plenty of arthropods and plants that thrive on cold environments and there isn't really a direct reason why ice would resist those types. Besides they don't need another type resisting them.

Ok but by that all of the above logic, water and fire should be neutral to each other then. Water can evaporate with enough fire, fire can be doused by enough water. Hell, make grass types neutral to water as well since water can drown plants! Make steel weak to it too since water can rust it. And hell while we’re at it let’s just make bug weak to water since most bugs drown in enough water. Do you see where I’m going with this or do I need to be more sarcastic? Sometimes it’s better to use thematic reasoning (fire melts ice, therefore it is both strong against it and resists it) vs scientific reasoning. It’s a ~video game.~

I'd like a .33 increase in special attack or something to help them offensively

I would be hesitant on adding too many weather effects to the game. We have 4, and those 4 already end up competing with each other's weather quite frequently. Adding too many weather effects reduces the strength of all of them. That said, acid rain is an interesting effect, so how about making it a weather modification to *existing* rain instead of being a weather effect itself. Perhaps when certain poison type moves are used in rain, existing rain gets modified into acid rain. Acid rain damages non-poison types and buffs poison types, no longer benefiting water. Trying to reapply the water with Drizzle or Rain Dance won't work. Acid rain otherwise behaves as normal, being beaten out by other weather effects, including Primordial Sea. As a result, I also have an interesting idea for a new ability, called purity. Suicune has the ability to purify dirty water, and so this ability would be either unique to Suicune, or available to a very select few Pokemon including Suicune. When a Pokemon with this ability enters battle, it purifies the acid rain, turning it back into normal rain. Additionally, while the Pokemon is on the field acid rain cannot be applied. The ability would logically allow the user to resist poison and become immune to the poison effect, but considering this would be on Suicune that's pushing things too far. There could also be a few moves that can purify acid rain. This would be powerful for a few reasons. It obviously benefits poison types greatly, but non-weather teams can benefit from this as well. Rain benefits only water, but Acid Rain benefits no one, so if neither side has poison types turning rain into acid rain will even the player field, and force the opposing team to run a purifying move simultaneously with rain to maintain their advantage. This could open the door to other weather modifications for other types, like perhaps a dark/ghost type weather modification on sun that changes it into solar eclipse. I can't think of anything for sandstorm or hail off the top of my head, but there should be something for those as well.

It would guarantee a normal Poison proc on any moves that have a chance to poison. But it wont do the second stage of it. So, you'll have to fight against the clock to win before it manages to chip away at your health at a consistent rate.

it probably fits Weezing to have an ability that creates like weather effect, but like poisonous gas, it helps poison types hit steel types with that ability and boost their hp stat

Run room temp water over ice and it melts faster.

@@scottbecker4367 That's fair. But room temperature is generally pretty warm though, especially compared to most natural sources of water

I agree with Scott, from a thematic perspective, Pokémon battles usually happen at room temperature, giving the advantage to water.

@@Dexuz But if we assume both types are room temperature, ice type by itself just commits suicide by melting, and fire types should be too cold to do any real damage. If fire types are hot, shouldn't ice types be cold? I dunno man, feels weird

@@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149 Ice types shouldn't melt as their bodies aren't made out of ice, at least not entirely; their moves however, are. In the case of Fire-types, flamethrowers are actual weapons, and they're used at room temperature.

Proposed Change 1: Remove Steel's resistance to Psychic type attacks Proposed Change 2: While not a direct change to the Psychich type, giving Steel it's resistance to Dark type back would make dark types worse and therefore indirectly make Psychic types better Proposed Change 3: Make Psychic type attacks Super Effective against Steel. I mean aren't psychics supposed to be able to spend spoons/metal after all? I know all of these 3 changes are all about changing the Psychic types relation to the Steel type but considering Steel is one of the best types in the game AND that out of the 3 types that is Ghost, Psychic and Dark, Steel losing it's resistance to Dark in gen 4/5 (not sure which) is the choice that makes the least sense to me considering that most Dark type attacks are really just foul play tactics you'd see in a street brawl (biting, sucker punching, feint attacking etc) which really shouldn't have much of an effect on Steel compared to Psychic and Ghost type attacks. I'd also just like to clarify that i'm not a Steel type hater. I like the Steel type and think it's pretty cool and i personally wouldn't even be opposed to Steel losing it's Fighting Type Weakness at least thematically or making the Steel type offensively better by adding more Steel Type Weaknesses to certain types. Though i do recognize Steel Type is in a good place and doesn't need any buffs.

agreed, this would be cool. it should be at least super effective against one more type

I think Psychic types biggest issue is that they are outclassed by Ghost types offensively, and that has become pretty clear with Pursuit’s removal in Gen 8

@@theimpersonator7086 Pretty sure it's in reality Ghost which outclasses Dark. There are only five psychic type pokemon that are better countered by Dark type coverage. Indeedee-F, Indeedee-M, Girafarig, Meloetta, and Oranguru. In a majority of other cases Ghost is a much better counter to psychic type pokemon. Especially the dual psychic - fighting/fairy type Pokemon.

@@rabeechowdhury Disagree, as Dark is far more defensive than Ghost( because of Ghost and Knockoff). Pshyics tends to be more offensive with Calm MInd, and are thus outclassed by Ghosts

cold snap

That move exists in Ice Hammer, but it’s Crabominables signature move. They really need to broaden its distribution

@@lukefilcek3020 imagine Kyurem with Ice Hammer

@@lukefilcek3020 Ice Hammer isn't that great though. Only for slower mons. It lowers speed. Great for TR, but bad for slush rush/mamoswine/etc

I strongly agree with this.

This is a neat idea - basically, you can “shatter” the frozen Pokémon for bonus damage. I still think it feels pretty bs to play against - you get frozen randomly, your guy is out for multiple turns, and now you have the (high) chance to take massive damage. Being able to completely remove a pokemon’s ability to act with very few counters (compare to sleep, which has at least a few counters/resists in various abilities and types and also is so strong that most battles are played with sleep clause) feels really strong to me, and if the goal is to remove RNG from frozen then by increasing the reliability of freeze moves you basically have this guaranteed 1-2 punch combo that will obliterate most pokemon. Maybe you could actually _increase_ the frozen pokemon’s defense to counteract this. There’s a thematic sense to this (chipping at the ice around the Pokémon isn’t going to do much compared to shattering it entirely), and the person who has the frozen Pokémon now has a two-turn brick - maybe they switch it out and send it back in later to tank a hit that wouldn’t shatter the ice, and then thaw on the switch. On the other hand, if the player who got the freeze is able to predict properly, they can shatter that Pokémon to deal massive damage and remove a threat. Then you can increase the reliability and predictability of freeze moves, because now the status actually has some counterplay on both sides. Man - now I’d love to see a Pokémon that buffs when it gets encased in ice, almost like an ice-type rest. What a world that would be…

@@snoozbuster i thought the original commenter meant replacing the "not being able to move" entirely with turning it into ice-type, but buffing its defense sounds intriguing.

​@@snoozbuster Yes my original thought was to remove the RNG element (save for the initial application); non-volatile status conditions rarely give the affected Pokemon an advantage unless that Pokemon has a kit that uses it to its benefit (Sleep Talk, Poison Heal, Trick Room, Guts) so I would assume if this were implemented, an Ability or move would benefit an affected Pokemon in some way (maybe the increased defenses would be used here) I will edit for clarity!

What if freeze reduced special attack like burn dose for physical attack

The point of Phase 3 isn't that it should be top tier, it's 'what if'.

The poison status condition needs a buff. Paralysis, Burn, and even confusion are more effective than poison is

@@JordanWindhamBenford I agree. On its own, poison is pretty lame. There are interesting moves that play with poison like venom drench or venoshock, but they are underwhelming considering steel makes these moves extremely unreliable.

Agreed the poison type feels very mediocre both offensively and defensively even after the introduction of fairies

@@JordanWindhamBenford I always thought that poisoned should have some distinction from just being a great value toxic, so what if poison halved special attack like burns do for regular attack?

@@galaxianinsomniac9953 It's not just the pokemon themselves though. Their moves are mediocre. Outside of attacking fairy types what reason do you have to choose stab poison move over non-stab anything else? To inflict the poison condition? Compared to attract, confusion, flinch, paralysis, sleep, burn, leech seed, ability destruction? Pokemon would rather get poisoned than anything else. Poison should be a death sentence like the other status moves.

Pokemon can't already attack while Frozen so I see now use of this.

@@CaptainNarwhal1997 he saying replace the freeze condition since as of now it's useless to build around and total RNG. Every other status condition can be built around (poison kinda sucks in doubles) and has many more chances of inflicting them than freeze. Additionally special attacks kind of get off easy with no burn or intimidate equivalent.

this. I've seen this suggested so many times I even implemented in a fangame. they really need to fix the broken status effects like freeze and sleep.

maybe even do something similar to poison: regular frozen pokemon have their special attack halfed and badly frozen pokemon can't move (how freeze works rn)

I am not so sure about this. When dynamax is removed, physical attacks seem much more powerful than special, according to base power. When we no longer have dynamax, having this special attack-reducing will buff physical moves too much.

Still a 2HKO and Abomansnow is very slow

@@TunaBear64 yeah, but just wanted to be exact.

I honestly do not think it makes sense, though. Why would it resist?

Yeah

@@jameskelly-smith1279 ground doesn’t really have a way to break ice

no, ice in the artic is actually melting much faster because it is covered by sand. the sand absorbs more sunlight and melts the ice faster. just keep them neutral

@@luladrgn9155 you need the heat from the sun for sand to do anything if you say that maybe scorching sands is super effective against ice but everything else is resisted

I remember way back in gen 1 assuming water was useless against ALL of Lorelei's pokemon regardless of if they were dual water. lol Even 6 year old me had that same logic.

Nope Fire DID hit Ice for super effective damage, is just that a Gen 1 oversight caused the battle text to IGNORE the second type. (Still properly calculated damage) So hitting a Lapras, Cloyster or Dewgong (oh look 60% of the Ice types) with fire would result on the message "It's not very effective" But yeah fire didnt resist fire back then (one of the reasons Charizard sucked in Gen 1 lol)

"Solid". I see what you did there.

How is dragon a solid offensive move? It only hits dragons super effectively. On anything but a dragon type pokemon (STABmove with few resistances) I'd heavily prefer an ice type move over a dragon typed one.

I don't agree with resisting dragon because it's whole thing is to hit almost everything neutrally except for steels and fairies (the type created to nerf dragons)

@@bigmonke3348 who cares, it's still broken

Based

I was comming here to ask about this. In his tier list the bottom 3 are bug as the worse and ice and poison as bellow average, and poison is the only one missing

One idea I saw is making Water-type weak to Poison attacks. The logic was based on pollution killing aquatic life. This nerfs Water defensively while buffing the viability of Poison attacks.

Not to mention since Frost Breath is always a crit, any sp.atk debuff or sp.def buff against the move is effectively meaningless. Snarl? Amnesia? Calm Mind? Absolutely useless against Frost Breath.

I wish Frost Breath was available on a Technician mon.

Wolfe used the Taurus Froslass combo in a battle vs Aaron Cybertron Zheng

@@ghengiroo4143 Breloom with frost breath would be great. Now it doesn't have to fear flying types besdies talonflame provided it outspeeds.

That's like super ultra niche

Have hail give a minor buff to ice water and rock

I definitely prefer the Rock change, since that's a lot more impactful given the existence of Stealth Rock, and that Rock is an overall more common coverage type (especially among mons that Ice is ostensibly supposed to threaten, like Ground).

Agreed what Ice needs most is to remove the Rock weakness that makes no sense so that Ice Pokemon can survive stealth rocks. You have to wonder why Stealth Rock doesn't come in more types? Fire, Ice, & Flying are all weak to Stealth Rocks.

I disagree with the Rock point. I think Fighting makes sense. Think about it, its almost impossible to break ice with bare hands without them getting pretty damaged and its a great way to buff them as theyre not weak to 1 of the best offensive typings. And Rock actually makes sense for it since u'd need an iron or stone tool to reliably break ice

@@skullerclawerbandicoot7966 ah yes, and chopping a stone or a *steel beam* in half makes perfect sense.

@@skullerclawerbandicoot7966 Fighting is super effective against both Steel & Rock which you establish are both harder than Ice.

As a fellow Ice-type lover, I too definitely said, “Whee!”