the idol is the worst show of the year 😀 

I’m sorry but you CANNOT convince me that the intimacy coordinator scene wasn’t a direct response to Sydney Sweeney not wanting to be nude all the time. He *really* thought he was saying something deep, but he is clueless!!

The ending where they tried to twist the narrative and paint Jocelyn as this master manipulator who was in control the whole time is so damaging and belittling. They treated her worse than an animal the entire time and tried to pass it off as her being in control and wanting it. It's disgusting and gross. Almost like they are trying to gaslight abuse victims into thinking that they are in control and empowered

It went from a show about misogyny in the music industry, to a show of misogyny and the music industry.

some pictures were leaked when amy was still the director and it's safe to say it would've been a completely different show. jocelyn's bed room was pink and girly, life sized standees showed her in cute and colorful outfits very reminiscent of britney's baby one more time era. it's sad we'll never get to see what the show was actually supposed to be and instead got sam levinson's wet dreams come to life

This show is just an excuse for Sam Levinson to create his own fetishes and I can't believe HBO let him.

The false assault claims, Jocelyn allegedly lying about experiencing abuse, acting as if intimacy coordinators are a nuisance, saying rapey men are appealing and more is just exhausting and gross. It makes me feel grossed out by Sam and the Weekend.

I can’t imagine how devastated the original director must’ve been when she saw what the show turned into :(

Considering that Amy Seimetz’s version of The Idol was roughly 80% done before HBO shitcanned it, I think they should just give her the money to finish the damn thing. It’s the only good result that could possibly come out of this abhorrent mess.

They said it was supposed to be a critique on the exploitation of women in the entertainment industry but it's filled with the male gaze that it ends up being atrocious and going against what they intended to portray. And the ending of lily's character being the bad guy just shows how the plot had no clear direction at all

Insane how the behind-the-scenes drama is more interesting than the show itself.

this show is proof we need writers, honestly writers guild should use this as an argument lmao

This show romanticizes toxic relationships. It’s disgusting.

“Hurt people hurt people” is *such* a tired trope Sammy!! Like if you want Joselyn to be the bad guy all along, you need to *earn* it through plot developments.

I think the biggest criticism directed against The Weeknd is because he actually participated in the writing process so he did put a finger in every single gross thing we saw on screen, things that could be MUCH better handled but felt like a fetichized view when it didn't need to be

It’s funny how The Weeknd was talking about how different he wanted to be from the character but still chose to use his music and let them film in his house. Like sweetie, we see you👀

Being brutally honest: I don't think The Weeknd or Sam understands how satire works. The beginning scene isn't satire, there is no way it can even be validated as such. When we look at Levinson's history of exploiting actresses and combine that with the #MeToo movement within Hollywood, the scene becomes a place for Levinson to make insensitive commentary on the importance of intimacy coordinators on a film set. He makes the other characters join in on this weird group shaming. He writes the female executive to say a ridiculous line about nudity to validate the real dangers on set. It's disgusting. Intimacy coordinators aren't there to ruin the vibe - there are there to protect actors participating in these intimate scenes because people HAVE been uncomfortable, people HAVE been pressured, and Levinson hates that there is protection against that now.

I bet if they kept the original female director this show would be very interesting.

bro when they revealed chloe being underage RIGHT AFTER they had her fully unclothed made me genuinely sick

This show is a mockery of sexual violence victims, sexism within industry, and generally the most disgusting thing I've seen so far. It has really lost my hope for modern cinema. And the fact they scrapped the initial female director due to "too much of a female perspective" is so far the biggest step backwards for women in media this generation would've seen in contemporary pop culture. It has turned abuse and female suffering into the male gaze and fetishism. It also revealed to me the true nature and intention of Euphoria which I looked up to as a child, I now realise it's a disgusting portrayal of glamourised pedophilia. Whoever enjoyed watching high schoolers (For example, the character played by Sydney Sweeney) sexually performing even if it is acting, also happens to be excited by those ideas which it intends to portray.

No, people are not saying 'gross, that's actually what The Weeknd is like' because he's so 'private and mysterious'. We're saying that because he's a producer of the show and he literally fired the former female director because he said her version of the story was ''too feminist''. So he literally went on his way to write that disgusting character and make him a kinda love interest even tho that wasn't the original idea. And people want to say that's not reflective of his personal views? that's like saying it's just a coincidence that Sam Levinson usually writes horrible scenes about young women being explicitly (sexually) abused.

The fact that The Weeknd got the female directior fired when her version of the show looked SOOO much better and wasn't just a gross make gaze parade makes me look at him in a much different light

After seeing the backstage pictures of Amy's version of the idol I literally want to cry. It was fun and girly and the perfect way to set up the way the industry glamorizes actors and musicians to interest people, when it actually destroys the people actually working in it and traumatizes them, turning them into shells as adults, while still having a cool set. But... here we are

The whole "plot twist" about Jocelyn being the true villain all along, and her manipulating everything, really just made me think, "Oh, this is how abusive men view the women they get involved with." If any of the writers beyond episode one had had two brain cells to rub together, they might have been able to do some kind of contrast between the reality of their relationship and Tedros's cognitively dissonant POV. It might've been a very unique take, too, showing how what Tedros perceives as some 4D chess-type moves on Jocelyn's part are actually just the unfortunately common back and forth of an abusive relationship. What a waste of Lily-Rose Depp's potential.

i saw a tweet that said: "amy seimetz’s version of the idol was going to include scenes that referenced jocelyn’s past as a child star. one of the biggest flaws in sam levinson’s version was that jocelyn being a pop star never felt real or authentic so it would’ve been nice to see that fleshed out."

I feel like the first episode shows you what the show could’ve been; it could’ve been a witty, parody on the state of Hollywood, but instead, it is just a convoluted mess of the male gaze.

Making the victim the "master manipulator" sounds a whole lot like victim blaming to me. Real life victims are subject to this narrative already and putting it in a show sure isn't going to make that better for people that already want to invalidate victims.

the problem with sam levinson is that s1 of euphoria grossly inflated his ego - despite also, lets all finally admit, not being consistent or well written, euphoria filled the empty space of raunchy, despicable teen dramas that 90210, one tree hill, gossip girl, and the OC left behind. now he thinks everything he does is ground breaking and "taboo", and I can honestly imagine the reaction to the idol is only going to reinforce this arrogance, he isn't going to care about the ACTUAL valid criticism of his writing and direction, but instead focus on how incredibly "shocking" everyone finds it. when really, at its core, the idol or euphoria are no more shocking that many shows I grew up with that also displayed sex, abuse, r*pe, addiction etc. the one smart thing he has done is he knows exactly who his audience is and markets his shows as such, the tik-tok, instagram aesthetics are undeniable and they obviously work. as for the writing - I've come up with more interesting and complex plot lines in my sims play throughs

The intimacy coordinator thing might have been funny with a different director. But with Sam Levinson it didn’t feel like satire. It felt like a “look how stupid intimacy coordinators are” the coordinator did not say she couldn’t get naked, but that it required 48 ho it s to re draw up her contract and also give her time to further think it through. Someone can talk you into something then you can regret it a couple hours later.

The part about the Idol sending a gross message about false sexual assault allegations is a large reason why I can’t stand Californication. Do we really need a show that says, “No you guys, really! The underage teenage girl came on to me! She’s to blame!”?

the cast of the show actually thinks they ate and did something revolutionary sends me. Lily saying how empowering the show and her character are and that Sam was the best director she ever worked, tells me everything i need to know about her. HBO should pay their writers instead of giving millions to Sam for every dumb idea that he has.

I feel like this invalidates girls who go through serious real life abuse. They’re trying to narrate “she knew what she was doing the whole time” “she wanted it” I hate that. Leaves my gut sinking.

Someone leaked photos from Amy's version of the show, which crushed me. It was very Y2K & colorful. It framed Jocelyn's character more like Miley Cyrus or early Britney Spears. There were more women actors & even children involved. And it pissed me further with Sam & Abel because they ruined something that had so much potential to be interesting. Instead, we just got torture p*rn.

There are a ton of plot holes too!! At the end, it’s revealed that the hairbrush she claimed her mother hit her with was brand new, but yet everybody on her team witnessed her mother being abusive towards her. So the point is she was abused, but used her abuse to manipulate others?

I hate when dark and raw-esque projects like this and blonde are labelled as "satires" or "critiques" of the Industry cos unless you handle it with a lot of care and thought, it just ends up being exactly what it's critiquing with no substance or anything to say It becomes just as exploitative

The intimacy coordinator scene made my blood BOIL. I hated how they acted like her locking him away was empowering. I feel like it was written by someone who completely misunderstands why they exist and why those rules about what is and isn't going to take place are a thing. They aren't telling someone what they can and cannot do with their body, they are doing their job protecting someone from having their body exploited. It is incredibly common for people to give in during filming/photography shoots to what they want to not seem "difficult" or because they are told it will help their career. While intimacy coordinators are also there to make the scene (in the case of shows) look good they are also there to make sure that no one is doing something they genuinely don't want to do. All the coordinator knows is that Jocelyn (not going to look up how it is spelled) or her team agreed prior to the shoot what she would be doing. For all he knows, someone pressured her. In my eyes, it is roughly the equivalent of someone getting mad that her best friend isn't letting them leave the bar with a guy she met. They are there to protect you in a mental state and place where it is easy to exploit you and countless women have in the past. I personally find Sam Levinson a gross person so I genuinely think he is the kind of guy who wishes that their important work didn't exist so he could get away with more.

I feel like eventually we are going to find out terrible things about the people involved in this or things that happened on set.

One of the worst things about this ending is the fact that they’ve drawn so many parallels between Jocelyn and Britney Spears, and even directly referenced her in episode 1. The implications of that are just vile.

We could have had an entire show of girls being their girliest girly possible but then they had to ruin it. We can never get anything good.

a lot of actors, especially women, have spoken up about how intimacy coordinators make sets much safer for them so i found it gross and not funny that the show was poking fun at the whole thing, and i also have never heard of intimacy coordinators being on set so someone sticks to their contract. that's a manager's role, not theirs, so it also seemed like a misinterpretation of their actual job. intimacy coordinators meet with the performer and ask them what their boundaries are and then makes sure that the set environment abides by that

I didn´t watch The Idol (fortunately) but when you talked about the r*pe framing part I instantly thought of Maddy in Euphoria. Wtf is Sam Levinson trying to say? Not one but two women who are falsely accusing men of r*pe? It´s scary cause this type of shows have proven to influence narratives in the real world, and this message is really dangerous. This man hates women, he portrays them as s*x objects who like being tortured, manipulated and abused and then calls them empowered. It is disgusting that HBO approved this show. Does it even have a trigger warning for r*pe survivors? Like do they even know how hard it is to watch that on TV. It is already hard to be taken seriously as it is, but how horrible must it be to watch it (again not one but two characters) being portrayed as if this type of allegations were only made because women have something to gain. It makes speaking up ten times more difficult. F*ck this show, f*ck Sam Levinson, f*ck HBO.

And we all thought Riverdale was the bottom of the barrel 💀

You’re right, Tedros is already poorly written so I could only see an immensely charismatic actor pulling him off. Like the actor would have to ooze natural charisma and magnetism to make it work and well..that’s not what we got so as viewers, every interaction with him just feels cringey at best lol

i absolutely am not judging her for who her father is but it feels a bit odd having lily rose depp as the main character in a show where the final message is "the woman was actually the abusive and manipulative one!!! 😱😱"

I’ve got to ask… why would Jocelyn approve the expose about tedros if she was always planning to present him as the love of her life to the entire world? She’s literally just exposed him as a cult leader! This would ruin her career! It goes completely against her motivation of saving her career!

Someone needs to put Sam Levinson on a watchlist. I won't expound on that, you might know why.

am i the only one who is now terrified of the Weeknd 😔🖐️ (chill, i know its acting but i just can't shake off the bad vibes yk)

I’m so sad we didn’t get the original version of this show… the pictures of Jocelyn’s room just showed how much more depth there was to this character.

they even forgot about how their MAIN character is feeling, she said in episode 1 she thought pop music was superficial and she hated world class sinner because it's not her, only for her to end up with three even more hornier songs and her show just strip teasing, so world class sinner wasn't her because it needed to be hornier?? wha- 💀

the entire show just serves to be torture porn for abusers. i have become jaded towards the fetishization of violence on womens bodies at this point, so i was not surprised at any of the first four episodes, but the ending made even me scream. it is so sick and clearly comes from a place of women hatred on sam and weeknds part. to frame the woman as the evil one who knows what she’s doing when we were watching the dude be the most vile piece of trash of the humankind all along? this is why tedros looked sad at the end when he found out she lied. because he realized he was never abusing her since she liked it so him torturing her served no purpose for him because she enjoyed it. power to the woman and tedros is sad. oh those evil evil women and their manipulative ways. taking the power to abuse them from men by enjoying - allegedly - the abuse. stupidest bullshit i’ve heard all month (bar is low for me)

watching mina tear apart awful pop culture is what i live for

The idol and euphoria both having a scene of women accusing men of SA is such a gross message

The original concept pictures of the idol was leaked on Twitter and it made me so sad. it looked so fun and girly but Sam and the Weeknd ruined it :(

"I have to separate myself from the character" you mean like how an actor would when performing a character?

That whole monologue about how “mental health problems are sexy” because only hot girls with emotional damage will be into you, felt very pointed at the Weekend’s ex’s… and yeah it’s supposed to come across as distasteful when she says it, but then the show exploits that exact same thing throughout the rest of the season!!!!

It irritated me how with Tedros and the other guy saddled with the false assault accusation, it's portrayed like they instantly lost all of their their power, money and credibility the second the news broke. When in reality, rich and powerful people get away with that behavior all the time and their careers do not suffer from it. It usually takes an especially horrible offense for these powerful abusers to be held to any account, and even THEN many people will STILL cast doubt and derision towards the victims and support the abuser.

Leia and Lexi are the same character and you cannot change my mind, both brown haired quiet and innocent types who get shit on by everyone, even down to the fact of being on the back burner while their friend rue and Jocelyn / sister Cassie in lexi’s case ( I don’t think I have to explain the similarities between Jocelyn and Cassie) goes absolutely nuts

The only character who acted like a human being was Leia, but even she sat idly by and let her supposed best friend Jocelyn get harassed.

Wasn't it implied at the end that Jocelyn was the great manipulator who lied to the 'poor' Tedros about the domestic abuse ("the brush is new" scene)? If so, it shows that creators wanted to sell a story where the creepy abuser (The Weeknd) is a victim of cunning, manipulative and psychotic female who in reality orchestrated everything to experience the abuse he subjected her to, further perpetuating the notion that women like 'r4pey' guys, actively searching and planing their torment because they enjoy it.

Based on what the weeknd has said about this show, and on his music (vapid, misogynistic, objectifying, manipulative), he didn't really act. He just played himself as far as I can tell.

The Wkend truly went "It is too much about women, can it be about my character? Oh and I know he did all those horrible things but in the end, can he be the victim? Ok thanks!" and they just went with it.

Anyone else feel like The Weekend read “I’m Glad My Mom Is Dead” and went “that’s hot” and then had someone write him an even more fucked up script???

Sam is nasty and I want him blacklisted but Abel is not blameless. I have always loved his music and followed him closely through the starboy era. He makes mall pop music now but I immediately thought of trilogy when watching this. Trilogy is very dark and downright evil in its lyrics sometimes, but I always loved that album because 1. It’s beautifully produced and 2. it seemed clear that trilogy was a drug fueled persona and a wild, probably exaggeration of his life experiences with Hollywood/fame/nightlife. Now I don’t think I can listen to it without feeling very VERY gross. It’s clear that he’s got some very demented views on women and sex. It just gives me major ick. Lily rose is her own person but I felt like I was just watching herself and her character being traumatized. Especially after seeing the photos of production before we got the foul male fantasy that made it to screen. It sucks man, because I think this means I’m done with Abel’s music. His viewpoint was not favorable and it seems like he’s shown us who he really is…or wants to be. So much ick. I hope this show flies into obscurity after we are all done dragging it to filth.

If Levinson didnt have that conversion of exploiting women's bodies and consenting nudity swirling around him, maybe then I could see the intimacy coordinator scene as satire. But given Sydney Sweeney's interview, and the rest of the vibe of the show, it feels too on the nose. I don't think it was a hidden gem of satire in a show full of the male gaze and sexualization, I think it's likely just more sexualization

What annoys me the most is that in 2023 there are still these pedophiles directing series or movies aimed at teenagers and very young people, how is it possible for this to be approved and that's why hbo also annoys me because it doesn't have any criteria and shows cheap soft porn disguised as "art" for young people, normalizing or glamorizing abuse .

I can’t believe so many people were involved in the making of this show and they thought this was good enough to put out into the world.

If you want a story about a female musician struggling with mental health and it's portrayed in a sympathetic and sensitive way, I recommend The Unraveling of Cassidy Holmes. The book is about Cassidy Holmes(as the title suggests) who was a former member of Gloss, a 90s-2000s girl group that's based on the Spice Girls. She commits suicide and the members who haven't spoken to her after they disbanded attempt to process the loss and what they should have done to help her. It's a much more interesting story than The Idol.

and you'll still see fans make excuses for all the actors and actresses involved, as if they're not grown adults

The fact that photos of how the idol was supposed to be before Sam took over looked so much better. Like a combination of perfect blue and black swan literally shows the consequences of wasted potential when a man comes and decides to make it their own

Another thing I'll never understand is how the hell Jocelyn's career (the only thing the show reinforced that she cares about) wouldn't be over after her showing off Tedros, the dude who was EXPOSED in a prestigious magazine for several crimes few weeks prior, as her boyfriend. It just doesn't make any sense at all.

and those 75 million dollars could have been donated to a charity

I love that Mina still makes the occasional timely video with no sponsor like she really cares about her channel’s quality more than anything else!

I like The Weeknd’s music too & was a huge fan of him back in the day. But you can’t excuse the damaging effort he made towards making the show more misogynistic. I mean hes one of the reasons why the script was changed in the first place and was made less “female-centered” plus besides how good his music is, his earlier work is FLOODED with misogynistic, themes and lyrics. Like I remember going to one of his shows back in 2013-14 for kids land and he literally had a presentation of naked girls in the background as he sung. I don’t think his personality/ past actions are too far off from those of Tedros …..

the original plot of the show with the female director actually sounded SO interesting. i saw some photos on twitter showing the original direction of the show and would have loved to have seen it. i feel bad for lily-rose depp… sam levinson im at your door…

Honestly I don’t think Euphoria is going to come back at this point. It’s already been pushed back to *2025* which is absolutely insane, these actors will be 30 and supposedly seniors in High School? But now with all the backlash, none of Euphoria’s cast has been supporting Sam, and I think they are ready to move on.

I don’t understand how we’re supposed to believe that she made up the hairbrush thing... earlier episodes showed at least one friend admitting that he knew about/witnessed the hairbrush beatings. And he got tortured because he didn’t say anything to anyone about it. I just don’t get it

what gets me about the “twist” is that it feels like they’re trying to compare it to the Amber Heard situation. it feels pretty direct where the woman is portrayed as the victim but is actually the abuser… as if they were trying to say hey guys Amber isn’t the victim. just driving the knife in and setting up that framing of abuse accusations against famous men all over again.

i love it when ppl say “i just made the show of the summer/song of the summer” and then it just becomes the most hated, diabolical, and impetuous thing that has ever been shown to mankind

Exactly! The most annoying thing about this show was the characters having conversations about what had happened instead of it being SHOWN to us the viewers. It almost feels like they didn’t have the budget to film everything on multiple locations giving we rarely ever left the house; so they put dialogue to contextualize and give us some of the important details that where missing.

Haven’t watched the show, looks boring and repulsive. I find it pretty gross that they make obvious references to actual women who have been abused and exploited in the entertainment industry(Britney Spears, Jeanette McCurdy, Miley Cyrus, Amber Heard) and try to spin the story so that they were actually not just involved in their own abuse but planned and enjoyed it. Like it may just be a coincidence but it seems like a personal dig at Amber Heard to hire Lily Rose Depp to play a manipulative starlet. The whole show seems like a thinly veiled response to criticism the writers have received about their misogyny.

There was also a whole tiktok about the paralles between Jocelyn and Selena Gomez. This show was objectively so bad. I am also disappointed at Jennie for choosing such a misogynistic and problematic show i hope she knows how terribly this flopped. I would be mad if she got awards for her role its so weird. I hope she saw all the backlash and chooses her next project more sensibly.

The behind the scenes photos of the FIRST version of The Idol showed a VERY different show. The version Amy Seimez was directing was 80% complete before being completely overhauled. It was gonna be more of a Britney Spears type figure fighting to control her own image, and the set photos had a more 2000s girly pop vibe. There would have been flashbacks to Jocelyn's time as a Miley Cyrus/Selena Gomez like child star, and they even had two young recurring actresses who were gonna play Jocelyn's younger sisters.

If anything good comes out of this, let it be that entertainment executives will stop assuming that recording artists can act.

Don't forget that Sam Levinson is the guy that literally wrote the line "Which in retrospect seems kind of rape-y and weird, but honestly, she was the one in control" in Euphoria and HBO thought it was ok. So I'm not surprised that him and Abel could join forces in their creepy endeavor

The Podcast "You Must Remember This" talks briefly about how when Madonna started her acting career, people had a hard time separating her star persona from the characters she played in movies, which led to them judging her by the types of characters she chose to play. I think this can happen a lot when artists choose to branch out into acting, especially if their character seems similar to their star persona.

KennieJD tweeted that the series makes it look like Sam thinks that he’s Paul Verhoeven when ‘Showgirls’ came out and she’s so right. Sam and Abel made a series that wanted to give off the same vibes and controversy as Showgirls but their shitty writing and constant objectification of their female characters led to an absolute shit show.

I would rather watch 100 videos ABOUT The Idol then watch the show itself. And I've been doing the same with Euphoria ever since it began. And I'm a happier human bc of it.

LOVING the set and the lighting !!!

my only question after watching the idol was "what were they trying to say?" the shots were beautiful but they couldn't make me believe there was any valuable meaning behind them

I kinda hope they give Amy the opportunity to finish her version and release it. Not only because it seems far more interesting, but also just as a slap in the face to the weekend and Sam levinson

What drives me crazy about the hairbursh plot twist is that she literally didn't gain anything from this "manipulation"! Like if we are to believe that she was in control all of the time, why did she do it? what did she get? She got beaten with a hairbrush and abused. I guess maybe we're supposed to believe that she got a creative boost from it or what? But if that was the goal of it all, surely she could have gotten there without subjecting herself to this horrible treatment. It just makes no sense and they play it like this deep plot twist.

they should have made this show a mockumentary

I also wish it went more of a cult route because the whole “idol” concept being a double entendre was super interesting to me. Not to even mention the fact that literal K-pop idols and groups have now been exposed to being related to and funded by cults in real life (E’last) and this show had a literal K-pop idol in it like,,,, it could have been so good and they flopped so hard 😭

While they might have set up the intimacy coordinator scene to be a joke and "satirical" the fact that they were really rubbed me the wrong way. Intimacy coordinators are a fairly new thing in the industry and I feel like they already don't get the respect that they should. They are integral as being that first line of protection for the talent on set to make sure they are comfortable and not taken advantage of. They exist to make sure both talent and crew are on the same page of expectations and comfortability on what's being filmed or shot. Like it feels like bad messaging to me and it was an opportunity to shed light on something positive towards women and men's protection in the industry and went in the opposite direction because maybe the writers themselves don't respect them. That's what it feels like.

YES MINA so glad you made commentary on this

The line isn't blurred. It is obviously the weekend's fantasy too. His comments say it all.

What I hated about this show is that they did SO MUCH telling and not showing! (Tedros’ past, Jocelyn’s childhood and experience as a child star) + they skipped over so many compelling plot points like the 6 weeks she had until her tour

Both the Weeknd and Jennie were terrible actors. Jennie had a much smaller role and doesn't affect the show that much. Tedros had a main role and I can't believe the Weeknd didn't at least do some actor training or something before going into the role. I'm honestly surprised by Troye Sivan's acting. That was amazing.

The biggest issue I have with the show is that Lily Rose Depp’s character is so close to Selena Gomez, who The Weekend dated. And then it feels like emotionally manipulating knowing he changed the story line to then center himself on a story that was about a woman who had similar fame to his ex’s and friends. It’s feel like an excuse to make some type of therapy for him and Sam.

I’ve been WAITING for this one.. turn it up!

I would say The Idol is the result for yall keep defending Euphoria💀💀