The Imitation Game (HD CLIP) | Keeping It a Secret 

wait until you find out how hard it hits Peter

look and listen - then think carefully !

Too bad this movie is bullshit for being historically inaccurate.

guy got arrested for a crime and got consequences.

@@reneprovosty7032 Alan Turing's only crime was being a gay man at a time when the world didn't understand that no person can choose their whether they're homosexual, straight or bisexual, it is in their genetics from birth. He was issued a posthumous pardon by Queen Elizabeth II in 2013 along with the British prime minister at the time giving an official public apology for what happened to Mr. Turing. He should NEVER have been convicted of the supposed "crime" because of the fact that he was a human being. Please do not make assumptions without knowing the actual facts of the incidents in question.

@@reneprovosty7032 What a shitty fucking perspective you have there

@@Scytheslinger you just don't understand wat I am talking about sir.

Friendly fire will not be tolerated.

And he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal. Because he invented it! And then he perfected it. And then he beat the living crap out of every single one of them.

@@leonard_9500 o7

@@souswodaem1 Press F

@@souswodaem1 friendly fire have always been tolerated if its for the betterment of the war

This scene is pure fiction though. Turing played no part in how the intelligence was utilised, and it was used very extensively. The Allies just covered their tracks very well by concocting plausible alternative ways they would have gained the intelligence (e.g. by sending a spotter plane over the nazi U-boats to 'randomly' spot them before attacking).

One point that I would like to make about the above mentioned and its basic reality as it applies to us humans today..😢 Take for example the idea that we are not alone in the universe?! If ordinary people believed that life existed on other planets and they were to be revealed to have visited here? Todays society would revolt because it would betray everything that we have come to believe. Once that's happened it's a culture shock from which we may never recover! Keeping that a secret would also be utmost paramount, just for our own survival! It's no different than the reality that they faced in that situation. Think about it?! Would you not feel unsettled knowing that something else was far superior to our abilities! People already feel that way towards those that they already see as elites!

@@lawrencebrenton3365 Hope there is, there's very little intelligence here; Our 'grate' leader is bored so goes to war, the male herd of lemmings follow him to hell.

@@Youbularbells Do you know why that is? Because someone had the bright idea to keep the code breaking a secret

*enigma

WWII was won on 25th August of 1940. Everything past that was slow decline of Axis into nonexistence without any hope for victory. And that was a year before these events.

@@TheArklyte No, actually. Nobody would ever argue that date ever.

Not really a dilemma. It just seems that way viewed through history.

@@prospero4183 it always is. We look at that era with bias of afterknowledge. Look up how many people call german/french/british/russian/american/japanese/italian/etc. commanders and politicians dumb or something along those lines.

Imao

lol :)

I see you're a man of excellent taste, Will.

@Aidan Bavinton ^

Who else here could pass a Turing test?

Wow great quote

Wow, amazing leader he was

Bodyguard of Lies: Written by Anthony Cave Brown.. A great book..

Dont think so... He needed the guy to get his anger out. He punched him because he knew, he knew that he could save the boat but it was the wrong thing to do.... He knew Alan was right. Alan mentions it... you punched me, with anger, cause you knew, Anger is not out of your body, you can think logically now.

It's plausible since he's suppose to be autistic, and explaining yourself clearly to others don't come natural too him, and their urgency isn't his urgency. He has cold logic and emotion's don't play a part in his decision making. This is just very typical for any one with any form of autism. :)

Ragna R this

In real life every one of them would have know this long before they cracked it. Only in movies is there a single genius and every one else is a blithering idiot.

Yeah, but elephants can't swim upstream.

And Sherlock

@@sushantgoswami9149 and Smaug

@@sushantgoswami9149 Scherlock is cool it was my favourite in Netflix cheers from Poland 🙂

And Dormammu

Benedicts prtrayl of Khan sucked big time. Ricardo Montbahn will always be Khan.

Unless that convoy was transporting refugees there were no civilians in that convoy. Merchant navy men were armed and equippped to defend their ships.

@@florinivan6907 They can be as armed as you like, they aren't going to shoot a submarine.

@@hobbso8508 Makes no difference the moment you pick up a rifle on the battlefield you lose your civilian status.

@@florinivan6907 No, they were civilian volunteers.

@@hobbso8508 Their deaths are included in the official military casualty list. And even if they weren't the moment you're armed you're a combatant I don't care what your 'official' designation is. Bullets are bullets. I'm a pragmatist legal niceties are for lawyers to sort out not soldiers. For me what matters is your contribution to the war effort not how you call yourself.

"My friend, you would not tell with such high zest, To children desperate for some ardent glory The old lie: Dulce Et Decorum Est Pro Patria Mori." - Wilfred Owen.

In times of desperate war & fighting, sometimes, the needs/survival of the many far outweighed the needs of a few. Must be a mentally heartwrenching decision to be forced to remain a bystander to the loss of lives that you alone could've saved, but had to sacrifice.

Reminds me of Robb with the 2,000 men he sent to die to beat Jamie Lannister.

But it didn't happen

Churchill had to do the same thing with Coventry.

Yeah cause in reality would code breakers really make a call like that? Their job is to crack the codes it would be their superiors job to decide what to do with it, to withhold potentially life saving information would not be their call to make,in fact, wouldn't that be treason?

That is a call above the Admiralty, however. It's a National-level asset so they were right not to tell the Admiralty first. The correct decision is to tell the Prime Minister/War Cabinet that 1) Enigma has been broken 2) the implications/extent of it 3) give recommendations based on their analysis of the situation This would all take longer than the ~30 minutes until the convoy was attacked

@@a.m.s6611 other code breakers are not turing who invented computers and decided world war.. comparing dirt with diamonds/

@fed1up quite possible. but im sure the people tasked with cracking enigma where more than smart enough to know that if they don't use their ability to read german communications and anticipate their moves with caution and farsightedness they would sacrifice their most powerfull advantage in this war. so i think when they presented their strides to their superiors they will have emphazised on the caution with which their decoding ability had to be implemented into a longterm strategie to gain the upperhand in the longrun. and i guess it's just easier to show that dilema in the way showed in this scene. but.. yes i too think that a decision like that most likely would have been made on a higher level.

They simplify it here but that's kind of the intent - coz they start sharing the results with the spymaster who then decides what action to take.

the only problem with this sort of movies is that people start to take it for reality, at least those who don't get in deeper on it. Thereby simplifying reality and historical facts and context as it was a movie. In the long run people don' t get their facts straight anymore, and, as you see everywhere these days, start to think history, science and current world affairs are as simple as a romantic plot of some hollywood entertainment.

@@yottagram Its not like it matters to them anyway, so what?

It could be debated that, while this was a great scene, it was limited by an understanding of filming at the current time. I’m not saying I have such an understanding (I don’t), but if cinema were to continue to develop, perhaps there would be enough breakthroughs and revolutions on filming technique and philosophy to capture the debates and 10,000 people within the decision making process in such a way a laymen audience could understand (laymen simply meaning average person, not an insult, more of a neutral term… ironically I’m oversimplifying laymen here) The categorised limitations of the now could very well be opportunities for the next-in-line.

@@yottagram getting the simple version is better than getting no version at all.

@@yottagram getting the simple version is better than getting no version at all.

Im not sure why they chose to change the first point you made. It is just as dramatic to have them relay the info and have everyone excited and tense and then have Turing say something along the lines of 'in his case, it doesnt matter. They can't change course, they have to protect the information etc' and then have him defend that decision whilst everyone else feels sick. Sacrifices none of the tension, keeps it more true to reality. It's a good movie but not sure why they don't work within the parameters of the true story, especially in places where it can work as well or even better.

@@justiniath The stakes are greater if they are the ones that are deciding what to do, so I'd argue a little of the tension is lost. It's harder to imagine Hugh (I think his name is) punching Alan for example when they don't have direct control. Personally, I'd have much preferred as you've written it and think the punch is silly anyway.

@@justiniath it just doesn't makes Hollywood if it's not simplified as a concept. Also, there's no show in having them telling someone else _("show, don't tell" technique)_ there's a reason why novels adapted for the screen always say “based on”; sometimes what works for written, doesn't work for the screen.

@@PrograError I understand the concept and I get why they did it but I think it is lazy. I think the punch is forced and there are plenty of ways to show and not tell here. Plus, this is already a scene with a lot of tell and not show. Also, the idea that they were cogs in the machine and that in the moment that they feel like they can save lives that decision was taken away from them is so much more impactful. I get what you're saying though.

@@justiniath IMO this scene is very much show, don't tell tho... it shows likely different reactions of the Admiralty when they got told they have cracked the code (even if they are behind the walls of compartmentalisation)

You’re full of tricks wizard

lol...

While working with Veidt.

And how long they kept it secret after the war. 👍

People can surprise you

Really what makes you say that? Horrible shit is happening around the world as we speak

Maybe we should stop putting ourselves in positions to have to make these decisions in the first place.

What are you on about? We lifted lockdowns knowing full well people will die as a result to help the economy. LMAO

like ok a lot of people are awful and that makes me sad but you know if I thought the only people in the world were the bad ones Id probably give up on life... like what's really the point at all if there's no one of any real character or morally upstanding to even hang out with? truthfully a lot of humans are fucked up and cold but it's not everyone.

It was cracked in July of 1941. Germany surrendered in May of 1945. A total of 75 million people died in WW2. 58% of which were allied civilians. That would be about 43 million civilians. take that and divide by the number of year for the war (rounding to 6). So potentially about 30 million allied civilians died from July 1941 to May 1945. I think we can safely argue that 10 million lives were sacrificed to protect this secret.

@@SophiaAphrodite No. 1) Half of the civilian deaths were in Russia. Those lives would not have been saved in any case. 2) If it had been known that the Allies had broken the Enigma code, a lot of other lives would have been lost and the war would almost surely have gone on longer.

@@SophiaAphrodite "A total of 75 million people died in WW2. 58% of which were allied civilians. That would be about 43 million civilians. " it's impossible to know how many lives would be lost without enigma.

The lives lost by keeping the cracking of that code and machine a secret was way less than we could have lost if the Germans had figured out we had broken it. Just look at what happened in the Battle for the Atlantic when the German Navy went to the 4 Rotor system. Instead of being able to miss the wolfpacks as we had been reading their mail almost as fast as they got it we had about 4 months of shipping losses about as great as during the so called Happy Time for the Germans.

@@williamzame3708 even though most of the civilian lives lost were in Russia we still saved lives there by being able to avoid the German navy's attempts to stop the polar convoys that went into Murmansk and Archangel. By being able to keep those 2 northern ports open and supplies going into them we shortened the supply line with the Russian army fighting around Leingrad and Moscow then on the push back west into Germany itself. We still supplied 10 percent of all materials used by the Russian government in WW2 in combat power not including the food and medical supplies. We sent over millions of tons of food.

Still it says something about the moral responsibility. The scene is over simplifying things, but yet it shows us how overwhelming this knowledge and inability to use it must have been. They were all people after all... This says something about the terrible dillema someone somewhere had to face. Whether it was the team or some high level officials, still the weight of the information was the weight of human lives. This is the worst thing a person can ever experience... Responsibility and the knowledge that you could have saved innocent people but you didn't do anything because of the wider picture of events. Awful... War is awful...

@@marta9127 A little bit like Triage on ER

well yes, thats why after this scene they went to someone who specialised in secrecy, who did have proper plans set out for this and was already doing it. but the military at Bletchley was not privy to those kinds of plans. The military at Bletchley was tasked with an impossible task and hoped to decode bits and pieces that would help them win fights and battles. It's not just that they didnt have plans, they didnt think it was possible to even need them. Turing and his team were the only ones with the right to make those kinds of strategic calls, they were the ones who broke the code after all

Yep. This whole part is complete bullshit, to put it lightly. Peter Hilton didn't even have any such brother, and wasn't working at Bletchley Park until after the machine was built. The Allies had plenty of ways to act on information leaks, and fool the Germans into how it leaked. For example, they used their double agent network to convince the Germans they were tracking U-boats by detecting the submarine's anti-aircraft radar systems. Enigma was the one place they never suspected they had information leaks. The military had been working with this kind of thing as far back as World War I. And Commander Alistair Denniston was not some obstructive bad guy looking to fire Alan any chance he got - he supported the team and viewed Alan as one of the best. The military and government officials would decide what to do with this information, not low ranking cryptographers (a little thing called the chain of command).

They should have had a scene before this where the group is running past the security checkpoint (but verifying their identities so the guards don't tackle or shoot them), then going into this room and doing this scene. However, when they pick up the phone, they slowly realize that there is no dial tone (or other 'connected' signal). Then at a critical moment you hear a voice at the back of the room, and it is Commodore Dennison saying "I don't know whether to hate you or admire you Professor Turing, because you made the right call by insulting my intelligence." Dennison then leans outside the door and says to someone standing outside, "leftenant, if anyone leaves this building before I do, shoot them." (cue the sound of running footsteps surrounding the building, to give the impression that the building is surrounded) Dennison then explains that very little happens on his base without his knowledge, and having the main team of codebreakers suddenly running onto the base caused the officer on duty to call him, and he was able to get to the base in time. He was standing outside the door, listening to the group, and decided to intervene at the right moment. He explains that his job is to win the war, not just one battle, and as a result he would not have passed on their warning. Their job is to gather intelligence, to crack Enigma, but their job is NOT to act on the information they receive. Dennison then knocks on the door to leave, tells the lieutenant to stand down the ready platoon, and to reconnect the phone line. (Basically, I didn't like how Commodore Dennison was portrayed in the movie. This would remind people that Commodore Dennison was placed in charge of a top secret strategic location because he could be trusted to make long-term decisions while keeping the civilians under control.)

I was just thinking about it

That's what they based this off, although that story is actually a myth, we didn't let Coventry be bombed to save enigma because we didn't know Coventry was the target, since those pesky Germans never referred to locations by name

It is Coventry from Sherlock. That is what he was referring to

It is just amazing that Turing himself thought of it first and he is also played by Benedict Cumberbatch.

Watching this for the first time when Alan shouts no and grabs the phone I immediately (being a huge Sherlock fan) thought of the Coventry conundrum. Because of that episode as soon as he said “No” I knew exactly what the horrible situation was. There’s another reference loop in Sherlock 2x2 Sherlock’s famous quote “when you eliminated the impossible whatever remains however improbable must be the truth” And Watson replies “ok Spock” And in star trek 2009 Spock says that exact quote…..

if you feel he made the wrong decision then this movie isnt for you.

Technically, he was playing 5D Chess as Dr. Strange, when he needed to defeat Thanos; He had to look at alternate realities to find the one scenario where the Avengers could win.

Holy shit Mycroft mentioned this in Sherlock and it's the same actor. MIND BLOWN

Its theater. You want facts, you read a book. Doesn't take away from the point of this movie.

I always encouraged my students to go talk to those in the know. I ended up with a treasure trove of stories from people who worked in Camp X, the AVRO Arrow program, a Devil's Brigade member, a survivor of a German torpedo attack, a member of the Righteous, a Holocaust survivor, a York Uni volunteer in the Mississippi Summer Project, an internment camp survivor (Japanese Canadian) and so many others. I get it. I wish I'd had the courage to talk to the people in my neighbourhood growing up. So many stories. so much history.

FYI: In reality, Hilton had no such brother, and decisions about when and whether to use data from Ultra intelligence were made at much higher administrative levels. Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Imitation_Game#Historical_events

That is war man

I mean in WWII one side was mostly a group of people fighting for survival and the other was Nazis and groups allied with them. And Imperial Japan. It also just happens to be the most recent major war. Look at pretty much any other war in history and things are very much not so clear.

the idea of good vs bad is childish thinking, in world affairs, its evil vs evil and you have to side with the lesser evil

Not WW2. That was mass genocide by people who thought they were racial superior to those they were slaughtering vs people trying to stop them.

@@asahel980 I wouldn't say it's "evil vs evil" either, but rather nations committing atrocities because they believe it's the right thing to do, even if they're right, breaking some ethics is inevitable. Good and Evil are relative at that point.

More like Kahn.

It still would raise suspicion. And they really couldn't afford that.

If you're seriously suggesting they should've done that then you're just as idiotic as the people who had Alan Turing sentenced for being a homosexual

In this case, the Germans know the convoy's there and they know its course and are planning an attack which is due to occur within the hour. If the convoy suddenly changes course right before the attack, it looks suspicious. Too suspicious. However, Bletchley Park knew the movements of the Wolfpacks and they knew their reports of sighting Allied convoys. Convoys that hadn't been located could be steered away from the Wolfpacks. They could also arrange for spotter planes to locate U-boats they already knew about so that the Germans would think the plane did the discovering; not that their position was already known. Vital convoys could be protected while less important groups would be left to make contact with the enemy; sacrificial lambs as it were. Although the toll escorts took on U-boats meant that the Germans never had an overwhelming victory. On land, if you knew an attack was coming you couldn't have the troops making sudden extensive defensive preparations. But you could prepare a response to be waiting behind the lines, ready to counterattack. This would then look like an intelligence failure on the Germans part; failing to locate the enemy's reserves. In the case of Operation Citadel; everyone knew the Germans were planning to attack the Kursk salient. The Soviets knew the attack coming. The Germans knew the Soviets knew and were making huge preparations for it. It was an obvious target. What the Germans didn't know was that between British and Soviet intelligence, the USSR knew more about the Wehrmacht forces preparing for the attack than the German generals did. They knew which armies would take part, which divisions constituted those armies, how many tanks and guns they possessed; everything. This allowed the Soviets to tailor their defences to the coming attack. Conversely, as the Germans lacked this kind of extensive intelligence; they had no idea the Soviets had amassed a reserve force of over a million men, ready to counterattack if it looked like the Germans were going to break through the Kursk defences.

Well thinking of the possibility of the machine itself might be a factor but good question

Dont know if you noticed, but the whole point of redesining enigma is to make whatever method the allies used to crack the code obsolete. Them saving the convoy would have resulted in all their work being pointless.

i imagine the Germans would create more settings or change the design of enigma. Such a small change could render Turing’s machine pointless because he built it based on the original enigma machine and only got it to work when he found out that he should use Heil Hitler. The germans were EXTREMELY paranoid like get your children to snitch on you paranoid, if a convoy somehow managed to avoid a high skilled U-Boat everyone would ask questions and immediately change the machine. While 500 lives is a large number of people to be sacrificing you have to remember that this is war. Something that will cost lives and depends on strategy, in the end saving 500 lives couldn’t be justified when the machine could be used to save thousands and win the war

Unless they build a new machine that doesn't work on the computer. The Brits made a Type X machine that was like a more sophisticated enigma. The Germans never cracked.

@@nsn757 considering the Brits killed thousands of French civilians to prepare for D Day, this was nothing in the eyes of the decision makers