I agree. Degrom specifically throws max effort every pitch. His sliders are near the standard fastball velocity while throwing the fastest fastballs for a starter consistently. I knew that wouldn’t be sustainable
I was just thinking about this. Strider was throwing fireballs last year with his average 4 seam around 99 whilst hitting 101-102 at this peak. He also almost never threw under 98. These past few games, his velo has been sitting around 95-97 which is far lower than usual.
It's not the velocity, it's the pitch. Throwing curves and sliders really torques your arm. When pitchers rehab, they throw straight fastballs to build up velocity then eventually they'll start throwing the other pitches.
@@adotintheshark4848 That's not true. You don't have to torque your arm in any different way when you throw a breaking ball unless you don't know what you're doing. If throw curves or sliders properly there is no twisting or torquing involved it's the same motion as throwing a fastball with a different grip.
As a NY Mets fan I always held my breathe when Jacob deGrom was pitching. I believe that the Mets managers and pitching coaches should have managed his pitching style. deGrom didn’t need to be throwing so many 100mph pitches in a game. He should pick and choose when it was needed. He is still one of my favorite NY Mets, very humble, very professional, great teammate, is revered and love in NY. Praying for his speedy recovery. deGrom may not be a starting pitcher anymore but he can be a closer like John Smoltz.
The problem is also the nuances of pitching being overlooked with the over-glorification of analytics leading to the approach of using velocity-high spin rates. Old-school wisdom always knew that this led to injuries and no surprise that is what is happening in the game today. Degrom is just one of 30 pitchers that have gone down with ligament problems just this season.
@@yankmyass How old are ? You definitely don’t know anything about baseball .How hard do you think Nolan Ryan was throwing ? Sandy koufax? Pedro martinez?roger clemens? Tom seaver? Bob gibson?Dwight gooden? Bob fellar? Randy johnson? And the list continues.
@@emmanuelwood8702 Can't even spell Feller correctly 😭 Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson were freaks of nature. But can you say that they were the norm or the anomalies? No, throwing 100 still isn't common in the league today, but comparing it to the league even 20 years ago there's a mile's difference. For a lot of the others you mentioned, it sounds like you're speaking out of your ass. Koufax wasn't particularly close to 100, and neither was "Fellar."
@@yankmyass Aah. You know cause you were holding the gun right? The average velocity was less than today in the past but it wasn’t by much. But you wouldn’t know that cause you weren’t even born when they played. You're just coming along now and thinking you know everything from the narratives you hear on TV.
Jacob deGrom has gold on his baseball reference. That means he has the best Strikeout to walk ratio in history….and this injury cost him Cooperstown. He throws too hard, and it doesn’t just hurt his elbow.
They should of moved him to closer position 3 years ago. His arm and body can’t handle throwing that hard for all them innings. Pitching 1 inning a night he could become the most dominant closer in history.
As a NY Mets fan, I have been saying this for the past 3 years. He needs to throttle it down. There's no reason to throw that hard inning after inning when you can get hitters out with 94 - 97 mph and with other pitches.
Oh my gosh he has said for years that the way he throws is natural. Every other pitcher gets hurt and they say they're hurt he gets hurt and it's cuz he throws too fast
Sad that he was effective before he ramped it up. His “worst” season was a 3.54 ERA but before that he was a 3.00 or below when his four seam was averaging mid 90’s.
He came up as a short stop ,to go from that to a pitcher who throws almost every pitch high 90s .he’s arm ,shoulder etc probably didn’t develop like other pitchers who have been doing it longer
Someone once said that the order of importance in throwing a pitch is: 1) Location 2) Movement 3) Velocity in that order. That somebody was Tom Seaver. Today's pitchers all blow out their arms throwing harder and harder combined with more breaking balls. Many of them also lift too many weights. This is recipe for injury. Everytime. If Jake is going to make a successful rehab and comeback he's going to have to learn how to make his out pitch in the mid 90s. Lots of other successful pitchers do this.
It may be too late, but someone needs to sit him down and tell him Sandy Koufax’s story. Koufax didn’t become the Koufax we all know now until he learned to control and dial down his velocity.
i doubt it exists but i would be curious of Nolan Ryan's average velocity on his fastball throughout his career i wonder how high it actually was on average
He was max effort all the time by his own admission. He set the Guinness world record for pitching velocity in his day which was a little over 100 mph when radar guns underrated speed. His last pitch in the MLB was 98mph, so that gives you an idea of what it probably was.He also pitched in 4 decades and never had Tommy John .
@@emmanuelwood8702 Yeah, Ryan was a genetic freak. OTOH, Tom Seaver talked about throwing mid 90's and dialing it up for 8-10 pitches a game at times when he really needed a strikeout.
@@jimmyddddd He wasn’t special he was only 6-2 170 pounds. What was special is that he pioneered modern training methods that weren’t used by others in his time . He was lifting weights and worked on biomechanics .Strength and conditioning which no others were doing at the time.
@@emmanuelwood8702 He pitched with his lower body. His arm was mainly a delivery device for the ball. All the pitchers brought up in the Mets organization back then were taught to drop and drive. Seaver, Koosman, and Ryan all had 20+ year careers with only minor injuries. If anyone would take notice of this today it would be gold, but not for the orthopedic surgeons.
If you look at how any pitcher's arm is severely deformed while making each pitch, it's a wonder they all don't have broken arms let alone damaged ligaments. And DeGrom going down yet again? It's absolutely no surprise. I'll bet Vegas had money on it..where, and when.
He also had perfect mechanics and focused on efficiency, pitching to contact and not for strikeouts. He was a workhorse and pitched a lot of innings. He averaged 5 complete games a year compared to pitchers today who are lucky if they can complete 1 and still, he never got hurt.
Strikeouts get u paid in todays game. DeGrom Schrezer, Rodon recently till this year he hasnt been good since his spring training injury, Gerrit Cole. These pitchers got big contracts becaue their strikeout rates
I don't know his metrics, but is deGrom's pitches hard to hit because of spin and movement or because of velocity? I understand that velocity makes it harder to hit, but maybe deGrom was making up for his lack of movement on non-Fastballs with velocity. deGrom was good enough to win cy youngs without sitting 99mph which makes me wonder why he started doing it and continued to do it when he saw the injuries it was causing him. Also, hes so lanky, compared to pitchers like Scherzer and Verlander who bulked up throughout their careers, whether intentional or unintentional due to age, deGrom has always been lanky despite forcing his body to throw harder.
His fastball moves crazy. Ive watched like two full games by him. His fastball looks like its coming at u straight but it sails up as u comng to hit it. Hes a great location thrower. Thats why he cant strikeout like 8 to 10+ every outing
They just need to put guys that throw this hard in the pen, to go and start every 5 days, throwing 100mph+, and like 5-7 innings a start is just wayyyy too much
I don’t think the Hall of Fame is impossible for deGrom now. It’s certainly going to be hard, but if he can be good for several years after returning from this surgery, he can still make it.
Id you look at the metrics he is way behind every standard. His number of wins and everything is just not enough. He needs to pay another 5 or 6 years full years.
@@hmmmmmmminteresting I know, it’s going to be hard, but it’s not impossible that he will find a way to be good for several more years after getting the surgery. Verlander and Scherzer have both thrived even as they aged, though the odds are still certainly not in deGrom’s favor, which is a shame.
Degrom will never have the counting stats like strikeout totals or wins. But there comes a point where the rates are just so ridiculous that he might make the hall on that alone
I've been saying this about DeGrom for years. The greatest fastball pitchers of all time -- Bob Feller, Nolan Ryan, Sam McDowell, Bob Gibson, etc. -- threw their hardest fastball only when it was necessary. The rest of the time they mixed fastballs of varying speeds and breaking pitches. That's how they managed to have long careers and pitch nearly 300 innings a season. This modern idea that a pitcher has to throw in the high 90s almost every pitch is insanity. The human arm can't stand up to that kind of abuse. No wonder they all end up needing Tommy John. DeGrom's first few seasons he looked like a true pitcher as opposed to a thrower, in contrast to Harvey and Syndergaarde. But then he too fell in love with his high-90s fastball, and his career basically came to an end. Even before the arm problems emerged his innings per season were taking a nosedive because he could only go five innings.
He will never pitch again.. his arm has more scar tissue than Frankenstein.. he was a part time player at best before this anyway.. the g..m of Texas should pay the organization back all that money.. lol
He is throwing faster and he got injured so often but I'm not too sure if its related, maybe he is meant to be a flame thrower bc thats what makes him so special and too bad he just can't stay healthy he's like a shootingstar of a great pitcher. Wjsh him best tho
I agree deGrom has been punching above his weight for a long timr, too long. He's the victim of his own success - his own endeavors to be the best in the sport. An overachiever.. He'll pay the price, has already. He wont make the HoF or win another Cy Young. But he'll be rich.
This is a stupid take. It's not velocity that leads to ligament problems. It's bad mechanics combined with overuse. Nolan Ryan through as hard as he could in 4 decades but never had Tommy John. Tommy John the pitcher after whom the reconstructive surgery was named was a very soft thrower, he threw less than 90 mph.
Mechanics are tied to velocity, especially when guys who aren't built to throw 100 are abusing their bodies through mechanics to do it. Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson were freaks of nature. The exceptions prove the rule.
It's also training too. More guys Throwing 100 now, trainings gonna have to evolve so guys can maintain that velocity and help their body handle all that force
It would be amazing if you could get surgery and be better in a day all that happens is they cut you up put things back together and then your body has to heal naturally and it takes a super long time
deFraud was a SS in college, and he pitched. But in ramping up to become a pitcher full-time in the Minors, he blew out his elbow. That is to say, it all fits the so-called “narrative”, or as I like to call it: “reality”.
@@tkillcoin he wasn’t throwing 99 in the minors, so the velocity didn’t cause the injury then. BK said the injuries were a cause of him throwing hard, you can’t come to that conclusion based on the fact he got injuried prior the the velocity as well. Again, didn’t fit BK narrative so he excluded that information.
@@jayjayfrmstatefarm9363even if he did include it, the non-velo related TJ wouldn’t necessarily disprove the injury history as a whole being correlated.
We used to throw javelins/spears to kill animals much bigger than us The problem isn’t trying to throw 100, the problem is that our life habits cause us to compensate Sitting in school or at a desk for 8-10 hours a day has compounding effect more so than throwing a few weighted balls or long tossing 2-3x a week To all of the people that don’t play baseball or have never thrown a ball over 80kg at minimum, STFO
Pro athletes don't sit at a desk all day though and no one I know has been throwing spears or javelins to catch their dinner. What ball is over 80KG???
