Great video thanks, and what an awesome collection you have. My 1974 Series three isn't too keen and I use the E5 with reddex and lead replacer, have changed all the lines and added a metal fuel filter and a big magnet to the bottom of my metal fuel tank. Did have to retard the ignition as you advise, and found this fuel if left in anything goes off, even forms gloopy stuff too😱. So on my garden tractor and mower ect I keep them empty, unless being used daily. So many green initiatives are actually not very green it would seem ! Thanks for your take, please keep on making your common sense vids 👍
Funnily enough I just finished a University report about synthetic fuels in historic motorsport. I found your channel because I wanted more info on SU and Webber Carb tuning, so I could describe how the engine must changed for optimization for different fuels. I linked your videos in the Bibliography of course. I agreed that ethanol is definitely unfavourable for classic cars, and any exhaust emission inprovements from it are negated by its polluting production process. I suggest that methanol fuels cluld be a much better alternative
Adding ethanol to to fuel is in fact an eco disaster, with ethanol added a vehicle is less efficient, so uses more fuel for the same journey, in fact all the company has done is added a liquid which mixes with the fuel to bulk it up, but adds very little to the efficiency of the engine, the other fact that you did not mention Steve,(or I missed it) is that ethanol is hydroscopic, and the amount of water that lays in the bottom of your fuel tank is proof of that, the good thing about that is it can be used to remove the ethanol from the fuel we put in our vehicles, I will not put ethanol fuel in any of my small garden machine engines, and a worrying fact is that even relatively late vehicles are now suffering fuel line leaks due to the effects of ethanol , it is revealing how much ethanol can be extracted from pump fuel, this varies quite a lot from batch to batch, but it must be done to preserve our engine systems, significant is the fact that aviation fuels are not contaminated with ethanol, that should indicate something to the public. Stay sane! Chris B.
Good suggestions for us all. Thankfully, enough time has passed here in the US and Europe that proper replacement carburetor gaskets, fuel lines, and seals are easily found at any good auto parts store. Retrofitting my 1950 Chevy truck with a 1960 6 banger for ethanol took less than a day to complete. Tuning was by driving feel, so that took longer. On track days, I don't know anyone running ethanol additive fuel in their race car.
A great video yet again. U neaver fail to amaze with ur vast knowledge and the spread of things u can do. I would love to more about and how u gain so much knowledge and skill.
This is a very interesting discussion and thank you for sharing your point of view and explaining it all. There is also the question of valve seats with lead replacement fuels. Is it doing what lead use to do? Now on classic cars, Can you get replacement mechanical pump diaphragms? The original ones are hard to find as it stands. Regards, Paul
Steve, Thanks for the info in this video but do you have a company name or source were we can buy rubber fuel line that is ethanol resistant🤔👍. Cheers Dave
In regards to replacing the fuel lines; you can't trust the new rubber lines you installed either so check them regularly! We had replaced the rubber lines on 3 cars from different retailers/manufacturers and they all started bleeding fuel after 4-6 months, all from dry rot around the ends presumably caused by the ethanol ...
what do the modern cheap motorbikes use for the hose materials? mass market hondas, yamahas etc are fine with e10 even in extreme heat. or perhaps it is that it never gets below zero that helps here.
@@453421abcdefg12345 mine are way older than 5 and them going bad in fuel injected(pump in tank) or carb is not a common failure around here(thailand). the rubber for the tank lid on one of them did perish, yet the hoses are fine
A problem I have had with E10 fuel is its short shelf life, at which point it goes stale with a tell-tale foul odor when stored several months. The fuel goes bad even sooner when mixed with oil for my 2 cycle lawn equipment. That's probably why ethanol free fuel is available at most boat marinas. I experienced a ruined carburetor on a new Lawnboy push mower after stored its first winter, and small engine repair shops will confirm the damage E10 has caused. The key is keeping a fresh supply and using an additive like Sta-bil if ethanol free gas is unavailable in your area.
Ethanol has a slower flame speed compared to gasoline, and also it's more knock resistant. If you hear detonation in your race engine tuned for non-ethanol gasoline, is only because ethanol is making the air fuel ratio leaner. Also... A higher flame speed doesn't cause knocking. Knocking is caused by a slow burning rate mixture (like a lean one), since a slow burn rate gives time to the external area of the combustion chamber to detonate. The faster the flame speed, the less time the peripheral area of the combustion chamber has to develop detonation.
Steve, as a 40 year Toyota Master Tech in the US mid West. I've never seen alcohol issues at E10. Unless..., fuel systems have sat or years. Then we've seen carb fuel system corrosion in atv's that get little use. But for bi-yearly vintage car runs, nothing. Power equipment, cars. We run E10 daily. If I store a piece; chainsaws, etc, its gets Sta-Bil. But then I have a 1960's mower, that gets run ever couple of years. I don't treat the gas. It start every time. I've questioned my Austin Owner's Club in England about alcohol fuels and they have regular issues with alcohol. Maybe its the materials. For me, I just walk out and start my tools and cars. Now saying that, three years of gas in my friend's Corvette, no start, its game on. Maybe the rubbers in Europe are poorer. Dunno. In the US, ethanol doesn't affect much.
We're lucky in New Zealand that so far only one brand has 10% Ethanol in it as far as I am aware. It's worth nothing fuel blends are not the same everywhere and it even changes from summer to winter in some places (like NZ) to account for different temperatures affecting the volatility. In NZ there are also regional differences. So petrol from different regions can vary. I am not sure that difference is noticeable in any way to the driver.
I have a 1963 Ford Galaxie with an original 427. Where I live fuel with no ethanol is readily available and I add some 110 octane racing fuel too the mix.
@@D3Sshooter I am just starting to use. Will let you know later this summer. Got the recommendation from experienced user and his FE engine builder. His mix is 20 gallons of non ethanol to 5 gallons of 110. Yes 110 is very expensive $ 14.00 gallon. I also add lead. The 427 Ford FE is very high performance engine for its time.
Doesn't ethanol actually increase octane rating of the fuel and not decrease it? So I made few searches. *E85 ethanols octane rating is 103. It is used to increase octane of "bad" fuel. So more ethanol in your fuel is not bad, but having high enough octane is important. There is a reason why people (me included) use e85 as cheap race fuel on turbocharged cars. Other points in the video are still correct. *fixed a word
yeah pure ethanol is at 110 octane or so.. But here in the 95 octane blend its 10 % Ethanol to boost that cheap fuel. I did not wanted to imply that 10% ethanol reduced the octane . Its cheap fuel and the added 10% Ethanol brings it to 95... Note that I refer to classic race engines. That is why I stressed the point - classic cars-...Of course the E85 fuel is a type of ethanol-based fuel composed of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. Boosting the octane... thus yes makes sense. Its all a matter of %
I think people confuse octane with power. Octane rating refers to a fuels anti knock properties only. Octane has no effect on power other than allowing for higher compression which can raise horsepower. The actual amount of “power” in a gallon of fuel is actually dependent on its BTU rating. And alcohol in fuel does lower the BTU content, so you actually get less power per gallon. Many people think they save money by using higher ethanol blends, however you actually don’t save anything as you get less mileage per gallon. So you end up using more fuel to go the same distance, and you really don’t actually save anything.
ethanol “dries out” the friction pairs in the fuel system, the fuel pump, the injector needle, detonation, another important and depressing point is the rate of degradation of fuel with ethanol. Hydrolysis - fuel exposed to water for a long period of time begins to chemically degrade. Microbes - Microorganisms can live in liquid fuel under certain conditions, and they will multiply rapidly, eventually destroying the fuel. Oxidation - Excessive exposure to oxygen results in the formation of acids as a by-product. With all forms of deterioration, the result is that the liquid fuel turns into a sludge or sticky compound that can no longer be used and can damage engines. Excessive exposure to temperatures above 30 degrees Celsius will accelerate the deterioration process.
I understand that ethanol fuel burns cooler, gives a little more power and a little less Co2. As its the only thing available at the pump we have little choice but to work with it on a classic car so I will have to make those mods you talk about
Any thoughts on LPG or propane? It has a high octane rating, it is a very cold fuel, as it is a gas not a liquid there are no surge problems ,it does not degrade with time and as it it is delivered under high pressure so no fuel pump is required.
lpg or cng is fine if you can get it cheap. but not ideal for a race car of course you need a larger engine for the same power and tech inspection well you'd need to study the rules very carefully before committing I suppose. there were some local pollution reasons as well for why tuktuks were mandated at some point to be lpg in some places of the world besides the cost. it's a fairly simple system.
I believe that this products handles the lead replacement that is in old gasoline products for value greasing. And mainly protects cylinder heads that are build for leaded fuel when using unleaded.
@@D3Sshooter The newer Valvemaster does claim to reduce the bad effects of ethanol fuel. As well as the lead substitution they say it now contains an ethanol stabiliser which reduces the effect of corrosion and acidity. Not sure exactly how/what that means.
so I would be interested to know the differences to timing advance between a car tuned without ethanol fuel, and with ethanol (5 vs 10%). Would there be an actual risk to where you would need to decrease timing by a few degrees to account for possible pre-detonation? Would be fun to quantify
I wonder what kind of school you attended. Your knowledge is of 3 men combined or you lived and come back and live again. Wish you make video about your life. What you eat and what you ate as you grow up Your follower Moshitoa south Africa
It isn't the fuel that provides the increase in performance, rather the tuning of the engine. The higher octane just prevents the self destruction of the well tuned engine
Also, but Ethanol has a lower energy content per unit volume compared to pure gasoline. Therefore, E10 fuel typically has a slightly lower energy content compared to pure gasoline, which can result in slightly lower power output if the engine is not specifically tuned to take advantage of ethanol's properties.
I hate to break it to you but your rubber hoses are going to leak on you eventually anyway regardless of what fuel you're running. Hard to prove that the small amount of alcohol had anything to do with it. Can alcohol do damage if it is left sitting in a gas tank over a long period of time? Maybe, but so can any other form of fuel. Everyone knows not to let gas sit for a long.
Pure ethanol is close to 110 octane. Its not the ethanol affecting the octane. 95 and 98 octane is just that regardless of the amount of ethanol. However ethanol has around 35% less energy and it has a different air/fuel ratio. This is a factor in why the fuel doesnt work as well. But this could be tuned. But another issue with modern fuel are other additives that older cars can have a harder time with.
Indeed, octane values are what they are... and not the result of added Ethanol, what does make the knock worse on these mixes is the 10% added to the 95 fuel ... Low cost but not suited for high compression engines...
@@D3Sshooter Ethanol is poison to engines, try starting a chainsaw or strimmer after 6 months non use. Just remove the ethanol and there is no problem.
This time I slightly disagree with you. I think you are scaremongering about the dangers of ethanol. 5% or 10% ethanol does work in classic cars too. I don't think there is E85 fuel for sale in Belgium? Americans sell 4 barrel E85 carburetors. And that E85 fuel is also used in racing engines. In one test, old Weber DCOEs were converted to run on E85 fuel. The most important change is larger nozzles, because E85 fuel contains less energy. Finally.. Brazilians have been driving even on pure ethanol since the 1970s. That also proves that it can be done.
There is o doubt about the damage that ethanol does to engines systems, it is only good for 60 days, and is then unusable, it absorbs water, which corrodes everything it touches, it is less efficient than "petrol", if it is "good" why is it not allowed to be added to aviation fuel!
I didn't interpret anything he said as scaremongering or false. He said ethanol can be used in older cars but there is a good chance that it will degrade some components unless these are changed to material that can withstand ethanol. Many years ago, before I knew better, I had the unpleasant experience of fuel injector failure due to ethanol gas. I currently have a car from 1967 and I do not use ethanol fuel. I do this not only to protect the hoses and gaskets, but also to reduce the chance of getting water in my fuel since this car doesn't get driven often.
@@tkreitler Yes that is a very important factor, our classic cars do not get a lot of use, so the water attraction of this filthy ethanol fuel causes a lot of problems, I was surprised when the fuel injector hoses on my relatively modern car were perforated by ethanol action, a potentially dangerous situation with fuel squirting on a hot manifold, but of course for the government a big bonus, they get rid of an old vehicle, and a driver! Stay safe! Chris B.
Hi Mika, thanks for the comments.... so let me provide you an answer: of course E5 and E10 works on classic cars, but it will attack certain types of rubbers and it requires a later advance as it burns faster. In terms of RON Ethanol (pure) is 110, however the E5 and E10 (5% and 10% Ethanol) is mixed with poor gasoline RON95 + 10% Ethanol and RON98 +5%. So both fuels are ok for standard use but not for high compression ratio's ( as I stated) . In classic race cars... You can use it, but with a high risk of engine damage ( even when the advance is adjusted). Now, you don't need to take my word for it...I have had the experience of eaten up rubber hoses and a weakened polyester gastank due to the Ethanol. As for E85, indeed we do not have this... However , its a 85% Ethanol based fuel , so possible a fairly high RON. Indeed the webers do run on E85 and need adjustment as the AFR is very different . As you state, the energy value of Ethanol is far less then gasoline. So, its not a matter if it can be used or not. It can as long as one takes the needed measures and adjustments.. And for classic racing with high compression rato engines its a no go unless you want to risk your engine. So far my experience.
