The Incredibles Saga - The Very Best & Worst of Pixar 

The best thing in Incredibles 2 is Bob’s “math is math, why would they change math”. It’s the most relatable thing in the film. I feel at least someone was trying in that scene at least.

Not a plot hole. Edna knows the kids sizes because she is exceptionally thorough at her craft. She's a passionate wildcard with connections across the globe. Of course she knows the family's sizes. Do not fuck with Edna Mode, she knows where you live.

On a sidenote, I love the detail of Helen stretching to tower over Bob when she finally loses her temper in the argument scene.

"Animation isn't a genre; it's a medium to tell a story." Somebody better let the Academy Awards know! 😂

this scene from the first film has stuck with me for awhile: Lucius: “Remember Gazerbeam? he had trouble adjusting to civilian life too.” Bob: “have you seen him at all?” Lucius: “I haven’t seen anyone from the old days. just you.” they haven’t seen anyone from the old days cause they were being wiped out including Gazerbeam.

The sequel is definitely a result of Disney meddling with the product. The deleted scenes show a whole different plot/aspect, that it’s clear what we got was *not* what the director wanted, but what the *execs* wanted/approved of. Damn it Disney.

Something I noticed rewatching Incredibles recently is that when Helen tells the kids, "These aren't like the bad guys on TV. They will kill you," they're learning something we previously saw about this world when Bomb Voyage put a bomb on Buddy's cape.

Helen: “Everyone's special, Dash.” Dash: “Which is a way of saying no one is.” Later in the movie Syndrome: “Everyone can be super. And when everyone's super...no one will be.” The way forshadowed and set that up throughout the movie.

I think they destroyed Elasti-Girl's personality more than anything. She was really wise and smart, and did prioritize her family above heroing stuff, so it is really strange for her to leave the family behind to play hero. I could see her doing that as a family thing, but a lone career, for me, is a direct contradiction to what she showed us in the first movie.

they really wrote the best scenes in incredibles 2 only to cut each of them out

Something you didn’t mention is that in the opening scenes of the first movie, the color palette is vibrant, but after the first time jump, the colors are nurtured a bit. Then starting in the middle half, the colors brighten up again. It really shows the downfall and uprise of Bob’s life.

I'm surprised you didn't bring up Luscious talking to Bob about a bad guy who starts monologing about "how feeble I am, and how the world will soon be his! Yadda yadda yadda" Then Syndrome doing that exact thing.

Incredibles 2. Still better than Ralph Breaks the Internet.

Syndrome is such a well written villain. While his motives sound lame on paper, it’s twisted and utilized into a wonderfully written character.

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1178">19:38</a> yeah, Dash running alongside the car makes perfect sense. We see in the principals office scene that Dash can run faster than a camera or human can catch. I don't doubt could have followed the car and ran onto the plane without Helen noticing. His sneakyness was set up earlier

i just love the "fast paced" in the first movie, the characters are not just waiting for their lines to speak, they are actually answering what comes to their minds, and the way their voices comes out, is like they are in an actual room, not just voice actors records put in sequence of each other, a master piece, not to talk about the enemies or danger scenes, where u actually fell kinda scared, u can sense the adrenaline the family is on, it's overwhelming and u start to ask yourself how are they gonna pass through it

In the documentary they also stated they cut the pilot out because the mother piloting and pleading over the radio with the attackers and bringing up her children is so much more intense than if it was just some random pilot.

The Incredibles 2 is Disney, The Incredibles was Pixar. One is an instrument for money and the other is art.

the incredibles 1 was unforgettable. the incredibles 2 was... unmemorable.

My biggest issue (besides all the other glaring issues), was that the characters just didn't feel like they were same characters from the first film. None of the growth, character development, etc carried over. Everyone became flanderized. Hell, they're all worse off than as they were at the START of the first movie.

I think a BIG problem between these two films is this... They lost the spy flair. You go back and watch the movie and you realise it's both a superhero adventure and a spy thriller, much like classic James Bond. From Syndrome's volcano island lair, to Helen's sequence for sneaking in, to even the soundtrack. Its all there, whilst the sequel lacks this element.

The first Incredibles is just like Classic Thomas. Not speaking down to kids, and understanding their intelligence and emotions. Absolutely brilliant.

Violet's powers *seem* a little scattered at first, but you COULD put that down to her personality and being a harried teenager... but, sci-fi buffs could also put it together and call it all 'Light Manipulation', thanks to the concept of Hardlight, making the more obvious reference of her name, Ultra-violet light, make more sense.

20 years later and the plane scene from 1 still stresses me out. it's so well executed!

Did you know Disney rushed Brad Bird to complete Incredibles 2 quicker so they could spend more time on Toy Story 4? A movie that no one wanted vs a movie we all wanted. Talk about unfocused...

Why does it feel like the deleted scenes in classic Pixar are unnecessary and work better when removed and yet in new Pixar the deleted scenes feel better than the actual movie?

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1096">18:16</a> “it’s not a genre, it’s a medium”. I have said these exact words for so long. You have no idea my happiness in hearing these words.

Tug: There will be no Trains in this video. The Training Montage that takes place in a Marshalling Yard:

Honestly, Incredibles 2's biggest crime is not making the Underminer the main antagonist. Edit: The "Underminer got undermined" joke isn't funny anymore. Stop using it.

I'm surprised you didn't mention the superhero interviews in the setup and payoff section. Early in the movie, the superheroes are interviewed individually. Mr. Incredible said that a civilian life would be ideal for him, when in reality, Bob resents every second of it. Frozone said that he will never settle because he doesn't want to be tied down when in the end, Lucius ends up married anyways. Elastigirl told the interviewer how she won't be settling down anytime soon when in reality, Helen's probably the most well adjusted super in hiding. Every single bit of this movie is setup and payoff and I love it.

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="150">2:30</a> I had no idea Iron Giant bombed, that was one of my all time favorite animated movies

Man, those deleted scenes really made me realize how much this movie was missing.

The first film felt a lot smarter (and more genre aware) than the second. Like Bob and Frozone talking about the cliche of villains monologuing, or how breaking down the walls of a burning building will bring down the whole structure, or watching Bob sneak around the facility on the island. They really felt like people who had been around the block as supers and knew what they were doing. The sequel lost that. It seemed to rely on the same tropes and cliches that the first movie subverted (or least used more inventively). The sequal almost felt like a Flanderization of the first movie (and the characters). Like it was trying to mimic the intelligence and "adult" themes of the first movie, but couldn't do so substantive way.

What I didn't like was how Incredibles 2 negated the entire point of Incredibles 1. The entire ending of Incredibles 1 is ruined when you know the family goes back to the doldrums immediately afterward.

I have never seen either of these films. Listening to you describe the first one really makes me feel like I missed out big time during my childhood.

You absolutely hit the nail on the head with every issue I had with Incredibles 2. Same exact plot, weird story choices, no furthering the plot etc. I wanted to see the kids aged up too. I wanted to see new issues with all the characters and their current states in the future. The ending of the first film suggested that supers were no longer illegal (Helen being the first one to don her mask when the underminer shows up solidifies this for me,. She never would've done that otherwise, so making her first line in 2 being "should we be doing this?" Just made my eyes roll on first watch) I also wanted to see one of the kids turn to the dark side. Imagine the conflict of that, plus it would've made sense, given the suppression of the kids gifts in the first movie. Specifically I wanted it be Dash. He's the middle child, he was the most eager to show off and could've been most susceptible to that type of rash behavior/immaturity. I dunno, but I agree 100% with what you've said here. Thanks for putting this together.

When you were talking about how adult this movie is I was surprised that you didn't bring up the scene where Bob figures out Buddy has been luring super heroes to the island and killing them. And Bob once realizing that many of his friends are dead immedititly checks to see if he has information on his family and best friend.

One thing I love about the parents’ argument scene is that if you listen to the literal words they are saying, it’s not quite connected. That’s because the characters have had this conversation many times, and they’ve developed a shorthand for talking about the real issues without actually bringing up certain things. Bob complains that dash isn’t getting the attention and respect he deserves for his abilities, and what does Helen say? “This is not about you”. Bob isn’t talking about Dash, really, he’s using Dash as a stand in for himself, and propping his son up as an example because deep down he feels that if his son gets what he himself wants, then he can get what he wants too.

Incredibles 1 is SO cleaver that I get teary eyed as you explain all the little things the movie does and makes feel so natural and effortless.

I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, some shows and movies just need a complete remake. Movies like Cars 2 and Incredibles 2 could have been brilliant sequels but were messed up. It would be great to see even a fan made movie which solves these issues

I remember always liking the quieter family scenes, even if I didn’t fully understand the adult contexts. Getting older and understanding that helen thought bob was cheating, bob having a midlife crisis, and the heroes actually getting killed off made it feel like a new movie.

I love how realistic Syndrome's actions seemed. In order to commit, essentially, mass muder if super heros, he "hired" them undercover to do something that society didnt want them to do, giving the people they knew and loved no leads as to their disappearances. A lot of movies leave you questioning why a government isnt doing something about a villains huge scandal, in this film they tackle it in a clever way

The scene on the original where Bob is cutting the meat, whilst praising the amazingness of Dash's speed, is nothing short of magnificent writing. Because he's so proud of his son, regardless of the superpowers, as it is so secondary. They are grounded as people, before superheroes, before even full individual characterization, as they are set up with real moments together, their dynamics, as if we are a fly on the wall. That dinner scene has so many abstractions that deserve its own analysis.

I remember sitting in theaters watching that opening of them explaining why it took so long for them to make an Incredibles II and just shaking my head. “Y’all made two more Cars movies and a Monsters Inc prequel in that time. You have NO excuse.”

Honestly, the idea that Bird was basically forced to make the sequel doesn't sound that far fetched at all considering this is Disney we're talking about... based on the deleted scenes, I strongly agree with that theory.

I feel bad for Brad Byrd because I KNOW he wanted this movie to turn out differently.

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1081">18:01</a> same could be said about videogames; despite the popularity, the vast majority of the population still think videogames are nothing but Mario stumping on Goombas and that’s all, and that couldn’t be more wrong.

I love that part about working with your constraints. It forces you to be creative and intuitive. It's the reason why a lot of old games with unique styles hold up graphically: Stylization never goes out of style.

something i really like about the incredibles 1 is that bob is shown like a smart person, when he recieved the message of mirage he inmediately start looking for a pen to write down what he is hearing, is a small detail but adds a lot to the character.

Edna is a family friend. I’m sure she’s met the kids many times and I can definitely imagine her taking their measurements for clothes everytime

Honestly the 2nd movie just screams "Women empowering" and "Feminism" Not only did they take a well established female character and give her personalty a 180° and dumb her down to better suit the plot but also coincidentally the villian a female character too. That and how the female character gets all the spotlight and fun meanwhile the male character is just in the side and mostly just "jealous" Honestly it feels they were trying to meet a quota rather than tell a story.

This was a fantastic video! Very well made in both script writing anr visual presentation. Subbed!

I just noticed this not that long ago but it really goes into depth about how rather insane Syndrome is. In the beginning of the movie, when Mr. Incredible confront and restrains Bomb-Voyage, he tells Buddy “Fly home, Buddy. I work alone.” You can just take in how dire the situation is for Bob trying to control Bomb-Voyage while also telling Buddy to leave. But later, when Mr. Incredible confronts Syndrome on the island and we see the flashback to before, you only see Mr. Incredible , with dramatic lighting over his head, looking down at Buddy, telling him “Fly home, Buddy. I work alone”. And leaves. You can tell, that that was from Buddy’s perspective, meaning he was only interested in being Mr.Incredible’s sidekick and wasn’t interested in the danger that could happen. I never noticed that until a little while ago, it just shows how corrupt Syndrome had become.

That deleted scene of Bob being supportive after Helen had a rough day was the biggest loss in the entire movie. The worst part of Helen's section of the story is that they wanted her to be as perfect as possible while still having the movie happen. She had to be able to show Bob that girls are better at being stay-at-home parents AND being super heroes, while Bob had to work to be good at both. They SHOULD have had both parents facing issues with their new situations, not only letting both have a bit of character growth, but also allowing them to be supportive of one another in a new way we hadn't necessarily seen before. This situation is in hundreds of sitcoms and family movies across decades, and somehow Incredibles 2 STILL managed to screw it up for seemingly no reason other than perhaps some cheap "girl power" message that the movie really should have been above. What a massive mistake, both characters would have gotten so much more out of such a short scene.

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="2006">33:26</a> oh my god **SHARTS**

Don't forget, monologing was alluded before when Bob and Lucius where in the car

The Incredibles struck gold with my dad. Growing up, whenever me and my sister put on an animated film, he was completely disinterested, either falling asleep or leaving the room. He was very much under the impression that animation was "kids stuff". But when he saw The Incredibles, he was floored. To this day it's the one animated movie he will actively gush about and always sit down to watch, even buying the soundtrack on CD! He wasn't very impressed with the second film, but this alone showed me that animation CAN work for ALL audiences! The Incredibles deserved all the praise it got. Thank you Brad Bird!

Incredibles 2 has always felt like a high budget version of a 2000s direct to dvd disney sequel.

Found a new video essay channel that I’m going to slowly watch every single video from. I gotta stop doing this my brain can’t hold this much information.

I expected to hear "Bob's overwhelmingly joyful reaction to Jack Jack's powers almost feels like relief that he ISN'T NORMAL" as if Bob has been repressing disappointment in his youngest child. That is what feels most out of character and is easy to interpret from that scene after he has been struggling with normal parenting so much.

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="820">13:40</a> I love the Kronos reveal especially. Seeing Bob shocked from the murder of his friends and colleagues, accompanied by the eerie track and suspense if his wife and friend's location are known. So many years later, that scene still gives me chills

I love how they almost literally name their character "Evil Endeavor" and let the audience know weeks in advance, and yet are surprised nobody was fooled

Can I just say that Evelyn has one of the dumbest villain motivations in movie history? Like, she blames superheroes for the death of her father despite the fact it's her own father's fault for being too dependent on superheroes. That's like if someone said "My son wouldn't stop going to McDonalds and he died of a clogged heart artery for eating too many burgers and fries. DAMN YOU, FAST FOOD INDUSTRY!"

Talking about deleted scenes for I2 and how they're better than the actual movie... There's one scene, that was missing from the video - "The memorial Service", where Bob gives a huge and truly sincere speech about Gazerbeam and every other hero, who died in the events of Sindrom's plan. His speech continues through and we see how their family lives in a new house, we also see how superheroes are still technically illegal, but Bob hopes that someday the world will call for them once more. Not only it serves as a better opening rather than the one we have in a final cut with Underminer, but it also takes a very big reveal from the 1st movie and takes time to actually acknowledge it. In the 2nd movie, did anyone (excluding Bob) ever realized that Sindrom technically caused a "super-hero genocide"? For me, it's a huge deal. The writers know this, since they made this particular scene. Heck, even though this scene does feel like it belongs in some other (better) version of a movie, it could have worked for the ideas of the final version. Like, they already explained, that Heroes are illegal (- and they made it feel important). But also, in this deleted scene the family is basically at the same point as they are after the Underminer fight. But yeah, just as I said, the scene does feel like it's from a completely different story. Probably a more mature one, since they are starting from the acknowledgement of all deaths in the 1st movie. Who knows what paths they could've taken in this version? Only makes me even more sad. But the only good thing here is... well, if they do ever make Incredibles 3, maybe they could reuse this idea...? I really want to hope they will, because it's just so tragic and hopeful, dark and brightfull all at the same time.

My main gripe is about how the sequel did not respect the themes and character development of the first movie. Bob learns to stop going alone and appreciate the value of working with others. Has to be alone in the sequel. Also gets jealous because he's not in the spotlight. Helen develops in her relationship with Violet. At first she expects her daughter to hide her powers to maintain family security, then confusingly and harshly demands her to use them during the plane crisis. She then learns to encourage Violet to see the power within herself. Helen also learns to stop shielding her children from the harsher realities of superhero work, and lets them prove themselves capable. This is basically all ignored in the sequel. Violet learns to be more confident in herself and gets a date at the end because she took the initiative to ask. Gets it ripped away by Decker and goes back to hating her powers in the sequel. Dash starts out incredibly competitive and wanting to be the best, but grows as a character, so when he gets second place in the race, he's fine with it. Doesn’t really do anything in the sequel. Don't ruin solid character growth like that. The first movie did it brilliantly. The second one just had no reason to exist. The story was finished at the end of the first movie. Just because the Underminer showed up doesn’t mean it's a "cliffhanger" requiring a sequel. It just hinted at the future of the family working together according to the theme of the story. No sequel necessary.

Something I really liked about the first movie is how Violet's character development is shown in her design. She starts with her hair almost entirely covering her face, she's always hunched over hiding even further behind it. But you'll notice that as the movie proceeds, it gradually becomes less obstructive to the point where eventually she has the hairband keeping her face completely exposed. It's a great visual progression to show how she becomes more confident throughout the film. Honestly the first movie is a masterpiece of a film worthy of study.

WOW I am impressed. I could've written this myself. You touched on every point exactly right, I couldn't add another thought. GOOD JOB!

I think Disney pressures directors by saying "If you don't do this sequel, we'll find someone else who will." Often forcing directors to make movies they don't want to make because if someone is going to make a heartless sequel and make money off of something they originally created, it's hard not to think "might as well be me."

The fact Incredibles 2 had a scene where they held a memorial service for the heroes killed by Snydrome/the omnidroids and they deleted it kinda speaks volumes to how much better it could've been. Glad that Spider-Verse kinda filled the void in 2018 though

In defense of "how did the kids sneak onto the plane?" we saw earlier in the movie that they were very good at sneaking around without being seen (both at school and at home)

I wasn't a fan of Incredibles 2, but I hated Wreck it Ralph 2 way more.

Honestly, I have an idea on how Evelyn Odenkirk could be MUCH more interesting as a villain, twist or not. Although, it is a little dark, and changes the plot of Incredibles II quite drastically. Instead of saying that the heroes took way too long to arrive and help her, say that they arrived in the nick of time to stop anyone getting hurt. They take down the robbers and stop the problem. But here's the real problem. These supers are corrupt. Jerks who misuse their powers and feel entitled to reward. And when they aren't satisfied, it leads to a fallout between them and their rescued victims. That's when Papa Odenkirk dies. And they probably leave the kid cause why waste more time in this dump? Evelyn grows up with the immensely fearful impact of corruption in the system, not just for superheroes but for all sorts of places. So when they get reinstated after the events of the first Incredibles movie, the idea of supers coming back scares her so much that it calls her to action and take a stand to ensure that they're buried once and for all. It will happen again if she doesn't do something. I feel as though this plot would also give a good thing for Ms. Incredible to have a back and forth with. If the twist villain card remains on standby, she could slowly find out more and more about Evelyn over the course of the movie, starting to try and reason with her and get her out of this before she goes a step to far. She's damaged and needs help and guidance. Maybe beyond fixing. But mitigating even more damage is good enough. (P.S. If I got something wrong lore-wise, I apologise. It's been a while since I watched either of these films.)

While watching Incredibles 2, I knew right away that Evelyn was the Screenslaver. However, I thought the real twist was that she and Winston created Screenslaver as a fake villain to give supers good publicity and make them legal again.

I always just assumed that rather than a giant check, Disney came to Brad Bird with a bill after he lost them a ton of money making Tomorrowland. I'm kind of heartbroken to see that the man has drifted off the radar since making the Incredibles 2. I hope he's working on something he actually wants to make.

FINALLY SOMEONE MENTIONS THE ACTORS INTRO FROM THE THEATERS. I legit wondered why nobody brought that up

I saw The Incredibles in a theater. Aside from my cousin not shutting up the entire time, asking questions about a movie none of us had seen, I loved it. It stuck in my mind for a long time. I was excited when it came out on DVD and got it ASAP. I watched it several times after and will still go back to it to this day. The Incredibles is easily my favorite movie to ever come from Pixar, and Disney as a whole. I watched The Incredibles 2... It took me days. I would pause to take a break, remember it was a thing, come back to it, and take another break to watch something that was legit entertaining, well written, etc. (I had the same issue with Cars 2, though that... that movie wore me down.) The only idea I found interesting was Helen being the main hero. It forced Bob to be the house parent while Helen went off to be the 'breadwinner'. Something he had no real idea how to do despite being a parent for 17ish years. It was neat... It COULD have been neat. But as you've stated in your video, as good as this movie could have been, it's just not. Though we did get a few swears, which both stunned me and made me chuckle. Rambling rant over. Enjoyed the vid great, my guy. You got a new sub. Now on to Cars. Forgive me if I skip 2. You know why.

I’m so upset about the deleted scenes in the second movie. They would’ve genuinely made the movie better

Here's a fun fact: In Brad Bird's original pitch for the film, Syndrome was going to be a one off villain and the original main villain was called Xerek. However the team responded so well to Syndrome that he became the main villain instead.

I personally think picking up where they left off was a good move I don't like when there is a "all grown up" change to the movie it always feels shoe horned in just like the main characters having children that seemed to be in every movie in the mid 2010s to sell more merchandise other than that your pretty spot on. The biggest thing that really took me out of the 2nd movie was the villain motivation by far, not only could you tell who was the villain but, the motivation was pretty weak as well. When I was a kid watching it for the first time in theaters, it was a big plot twist because buddy was portrayed as a goofy wannabe side kick and at that point in the movie we weren't even expecting a villain because back then they didn't spoil the movie in the trailer, so when it was revealed to be him it made it so good. Then there was the mind blowing cgi for the time and elaborate camera chases in the action scenes that just weren't in CGI movies at the time.

Lightyear is still worse

As a kid I was watching The Incredibles thanks to my aunt who was taking care of me for a while. When mom came to pick me up after work, it was the cery moment when Mr. Incredible got covered in black blobs. Then my aunt just turned of the TV and for a few years I was just straight up convinced this is how the movie ends: Mr. Incredible just died in blobs, thank you and goodbye.

If they did a timeskip it would’ve been interesting to see a Jackjack who didn’t WANT to be a superhero despite having the most powers of them all - that would’ve been an cool conflict to explore

Loving the Pixar videos you’ve done so far!

I can't believe you cut out the part where Brad said that the next time someone asked him "Uhhh, what's it like working in the animation ✨ genre ✨", he's gonna punch that person. Smh. Jokes aside, this was a really great deep dive!

I was shocked at the villain reveal of The Incredibles 2, mainly because I tried to predict many different plot turns that would actually be good and this option was so boring that I didn't bother considering it as a possible twist.

Edna knowing about the kids' sizes and powers is not a plothole: according to the secret files in the bonus DVD, she's part of the NSA, so she has access to their files on all super beings. The NSA protects Bob's family, and probably keeps track of the kids' growth and power sets, and Edna being the little imp that she is, probably peeked at those data after making Bob's suit and getting inspiration once again.

The incredibles 1 was ahead of its time. It was a perfect film.

I'm now married with two kids and all of a sudden see the incredibles in a whole new light and relate to completely different characters now. I love this movie

One note about cutting Snug from the the first film: There was also concern that Violet’s inability to use her powers under pressure would ultimately leave her carrying a lot of trauma and guilt. Helen flying ultimately solved two problems - no need for Snug’s introduction and backstory and no unnecessary psychological consequences for Violet. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="951">15:51</a>

The first Incredibles had moments I never understood as a kid - like the prologue suicide scene, but as I get older this movie ages like fine wine with its maturity and style you don’t see in modern movies

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="2247">37:27</a> This applies to video games too. The recently popular Palworld has realistic environments and then you see Fortnite looking plastic characters. And what's worse is that many people think that's a plus. When to the intellectual it's like putting a Goku drip meme into a horror game (only as a funny gag and as a mod in Lethal Company), it gets boring to see after the joke is done.

In the first film, it was frowned upon for the acting hero to pursue their activities. In the second film the first hero was supposed to accept and support the second's identical activities, in spite of the precedent. It felt identical to Wreck It Ralph and it's sequel.

I'll give The Incredibles II credit for not betraying its predecessor as hard as Ralph Breaks the Internet.

Honestly the first moment I saw Evelin walk onto the screen I just thought “She did it.” I didn’t know what she did but I knew she was going to be the twist villain.

This is the first video I've watched from you. You hit every opinion I have so precisely it's almost creepy. Brilliant analysis. Incredibles 1 is my favorite Pixar film and it's not even close. Saw it in the theater when I was 10. Incredibles 2...I couldn't even tell you the villains' names until you went over them, and I was reminded how ashamed I was paying to see that bullshit in the theater lol. (one small request, respectfully...for the love of God, make your voice center-panned at all times and/or use mono input) Outstanding work, my dude👍

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1060">17:40</a> I love this speech he makes

I think the hardest part about watching this film was seeing Helen be so happy and successful while Bob struggled. Being a hero is so incredibly important to Bob and while he grits his teeth and reluctantly is a good sport about taking the backseat, the movies is seemingly trying to say, "LOOK AT THIS MAN STRUGGLING TO DO WHAT A WOMAN DOES WHILE SHE DOES HIS 'JOB' PERFECTLY." I know I am not the only one who feels like the movie was trying to make jabs like this. I don't think there is anything wrong with the roles being reversed, but it makes the family work seem demeaning while the hero work is made out to be pure upside. To that end, Bob wanted to be a hero not because it was fun, but because it gave him meaning and a sense of value and purpose. It gave him a way to prove himself. To this end Incredibles 2 feels like it misunderstands the first film. Hero work for Helen, as mentioned in this video, is just 'fun' and a way for her to show off rather than something which is a core part of what she needs to be happy. Being a caretaker isn't demaning and working a job isn't some easy pure upside either. Both roles have their struggles and thrills. Bob can struggle at home, but Helen should struggle at work and both should understand their experiences rather than just mocking Bob for having it easy and apparently never contributing at home with homework or school issues???

Speaking as one who was blinded by nostalgia when I saw Incredibles 2 in theaters, I liked the movie. But the more I’ve watched it since, the more I agree with you: it was a pile of wasted potential and rehashing. There’s a collection of good ideas and character moments that weren’t ever built into anything substantial. The disparity between the masterpiece of the first and the disappointment of the second is shocking.

I think the way to save it if they do an Incredibles 3, is turn the second movie into the aging parents rambling as they get to the end of the first movies story, forgetting details, spicing things up, etc. It could even explain the cut scenes as the two forgetting them, or not being aware of them until Dash and Violet cut in to remind them.

I think my biggest gripe of the second movie is how it completely retcons the message of the first movie. In that movie, Superheroes get rejected for constantly putting others in danger. Mostly at the hands of Mr. Incredible, but still putting people in danger. However, by the end, they seem to be accepted once they’re able to prove themselves that they’re not that bad once the family and Frozone defeats Syndrome and the Omnidroid. The ending is warmhearted, too. It seems everyone has come to accept superheroes for what they are… and then everyone goes back to hating them in the second film for absolutely no reason. Now, granted, I had only watched the film once so maybe there was some deeper message that I didn’t see in that film, but unlike the first film, it’s not really explained why everyone went back to hating these superheroes. At least in the first movie, there was good incentive what with always endangering citizens and the general fear that humanity could be placed in danger. However, that’s not mentioned in the second movie, and if it’s supposed to be a retelling, why does it start off right after the events of the first movie, where everyone comes to accept the superheroes and even praise them for saving the day? It’s counterintuitive to the entire reason why the first film even happens. That’s not to say retellings are bad. Super Mario Galaxy 2 is a retelling of the first game and it does it well. In fact, it probably does it just as good, if not better, than the first game, and there’s nothing to suggest the second game takes place after the first, either. It’s a complete rewrite that manages to capture what made the first game good. The Incredibles II, however… doesn’t do that. It’s very clearly not a retelling based on the beginning of the movie. It’s a lazy attempt at a rewrite that doesn’t actually work because it tries to be a rewrite while contradicting the first film entirely, despite very clearly taking elements FROM the first film. For a movie, it’s hot garbage. For a PIXAR movie? I’m surprised this movie didn’t get them into major financial trouble.