The most humble comment I ever heard was: "Because... in the minds of Chinese people, we believe that a loss is a loss." "We, and the Chinese community, felt that we lost because we weren't as good as the others" -Banana #Respect
I was glad he shared that sentiment because dota has never been a game about fairness or balance, and it’s sad that monetization forces them to change things people are too stupid to work around like getting hooked into a fountain teleports. Everyone just wants to run and scream and cry “imba” or “op”, and anyone who disagrees simply can’t hang and needs to excuse their shitty playing ability by deeming in game mechanics that have been there for the longest time as unfair. There’s always a workaround, and the mechanics from Warcraft 3 are what made dota what it is by virtue of being held with in the boundaries of an old ass map making tool on an outdated game. Half the abilities and the reason they act the way they do are because of wc3 game mechanics, which newbies who have only played dota 2 are will never be able to grasp
@@MetalFaust no it wasn't a bug. It was the way hook worked. Pudge hooked, and the hook would come back to the pudge no matter where the pudge is. Hook was returning to PUDGE, not to the location pudge initially used the hook first. It's not a bug, that was how hook worked back in the day. it was changed cus navi did something amazing not something buggy. Remember that this trick was pulled by the best chen and the best pudge in the world ( by far) at that time. It was NOT an easy thing to do, if it was easy to think and to do, then everybody would do it. Top players like loda ( who was crying like a baby cus he was too scared to face navi later on) tried this and failed.
@@syndrosevibritannia3983 it was Notail Idea to make it into a carry hero. Ana only said the heart on Io was broken as he had been playing it as a support with his friends.
@O K I wanna add on! Topson's Gyro Diffusal to counter Bristleback was such a surprise too. In hindsight it's perfectly logical, but that was out of nowhere.
Loda won a whole international abusing the heavy rat element of that patch. Moment ratting was no longer viable he faded into obscurity. He doesn't get to complain about shit.
@O K they cant afford to just focus bully on ana IO tho, topson at that time was a far more of a threat in team fights if he gets fat from the space created by liquid bullying ana io.
@O K bruh you were talking about the ana io carry in the grand finals in TI and now you reply me with Topson tiny? Topson was Gyro on that last match in the finals with Ana as the IO carry and even with ana as the pos 1, topson can still be a formidable main carry in that match with ana io supporting and boosting topson's gyro dps while still be able to dish out a great dps with io's spirits against liquid.
TimboStyle_CNWY Loda was probably mad because he didn't want to face Na'Vi again for the grand finals. Alliance still won, but it only took them another 5 games against Na'Vi, and boy was it a grueling grand final.
@@AlienMax95 Loda didn't lose though? It was more the fact that Navi only won because of the fountain hook, which was as Dendi and Puppey said, way too strong. Still gotta hand it to them, they tried something new and it worked out well. If they perhaps practiced it before and knew of the bug itself, it would be a different story.
Yeah I lose to a Io and that only destroyed the mid lane towers with sniper when it was late game because my team was toxic and didn't want to push when we could have won😓
I love the mentality of Tongfu. They took the defeat like champions. They panicked that's why they lost. If you miss the hook it's a 4 vs 5 situation you bound to lose the fight and probably the game. It was dangerous to use fountain hook, Navi still pulled it of. Bravo.
He uses a service to get likes on his comments that no one actually cares about. SImilar to mg-likers or something. You can speculate from there what kind of person would need such a thing... youtube comment likes... heh...
+Andrei Diana No, its not sarcasm. The thing about the chinese pride is; if they fail, its not anybody else's fault, it just means they need to get better. I listened, there was no sarcasm in his voice.
Then why isnt your shitty island fighting against china? Your island is a 3rd world failure, you wimp. All your countrymen are wimps for not fighting for what is theirs. China: We take your shit. You + your people: You take our shit. *cries to the rest of the world how "unfair" it was. Typical 3rd world logic.
I love how dota doesn't try to hide or forget its bugs and mistakes they understand that these things are a part of the game and they cherrish and memorialize it.... and it is beautiful❤️
That’s why Icefrog was never mistaken for choosing Valve to develop Dota 2. If it was another company who may have handled the game, it will be a game that is made to spoonfeed crybaby players’ whims and whines. Gigachad Dota 2 is different from the ripoffs though.
@@emojest18 Yep, the difference was in hooking to Pudge's current position, not when the hook was casted. Same thing was fixed with Shackleshot (WR could blink to guarantee the shackle) a bit after.
Probably the biggest reason they got so far. They're willing to reflection how they could have played better instead of blaming the tactics of the other team.
like it or not.. fear or not... bug or not...imbalance or not... the navi fountain hook still the most fenomenal brilliant and biggest strategi on dota professional tournament in history... and the important thing is the audience enjoyed that match
They don't understand the fact that the match was a Captain's draft - meaning that both teams have the chance to ban the heroes or pick the heroes to use for fountain hook. It is indeed one of the best strategy besides the old Earthshaker's fissure crep stacking at the radiant top lane.
Yeah, waste a very important first ban for a bugged hero which is not in the meta and get outdrafted from youre oponents... 3k players... You don´t have to ban chen for doing this by the way, it also works with other heroes like kunka for example.If Navi would have lost that way, the community would have a totally different opinion. I flame Valve for allowing this, not Navi. When you can win so much money, they should take it more seriouse.
but PPD also have point, if that "bug" is unbalance. people would have done it but its not. That "bug" have a very high skill cap (its just that dendi and puppey made it look so easy) . I mean, of course i can see that its pretty bullshit to literally kill a fat gyro with aegis twice with just one hook but it is only fair to give navi that win since they didn't really messed the game, it just one of those loopholes they found in the game due to the fact that dendi plays a monstrous pudge and puppey play an insane Chen. Besided, lulda also tried this strat and didnt even succeed.
+John Anthony Arcillas An imbalance inside of the game would be Sniper and spectre during the 6.83 era. Fountain hooking on the other hand is an error or flaw inside the game, which results in an unexpected result. The intention of the developers was the fact that an affected target would be pulled towards pudge. If their intention ever was to get the target into the fountain, they simply would give him an global hook. So in someway it fills the criteria of a bug. I mean, at one point in the history of Dota, you could get up to four enemey heroes to your fountain. It was never done in a pro game, but you could do it. And it got removed for the same reason. In was an unexpected failure of the software, which in other words means "bug" Hell even today, the same ability, who could achieve that, sometimes bugs out and teleports both the caster and the target to a certained point on the map..
it aint a bug. If you want to be exact, game mechanic abuse is the word. I mean, sure the developer didn't intend to make that available in the game, but because of very special circumstances (Dendi being the best pudge in the world and Puppey being one of the best chen players in the world) this game mechanic abused is formed. Besides, i doubt people would start winning games because by copying it. In fact, i could say that this has much lower winning percentage than a sniper in 6.83.
I think it was partly just because the fact that it was the 3rd of 3 games and that Na'Vi was loosing really bad early on, thus when Na'Vi won in a way that wasn't entirely possible to counter, other than just map awareness and positioning, it felt like an unclean win. But the fun stuff like this, it makes some of the best memories for almost everyone. :D
ITS not bug noob its skill , the hook fly and chen tp pudge home and hook is still there and get a hero ,where the hook will go to pudge because its not Bug . IF they say that a bug that mean normal hook to lang is bug and . The point is that pudge hook should go back to pudge or what dude those noob . They know Comback is real . Kk who say bug tell Comback is bug ?
I still don't understand why Loda is the only one so worked up about the fountain hook. Even Banana, whose team lose to that strat, says it's mostly their fault for 'not playing good enough', and ppd even knows how hard it is to pull it off, especially in a such important match.
Devin1pm That's one possibility... Fountain hook is unreliable, though, and it can be countered by supreme vision and map control, something which is Alliance is good at.
I understand how loda felt, I woulda felt the same way If I was watching that as a pro player, but as a fan it was insane to watch! Really love the Chinese community to about the situation, very humble!
@@Ike92240 not saying it was but it was fucking unbalanced because back-door protection wasn't a thing back then. Imagine you're about to win and you haven't lost a single tower then they just take your towers using np tp and relocate
No matter if the fountain hook was bug-abusing or not...it made Dendi the immortal player he deserves to be and it was one of the iconic moves that went down in Dota history...well deserved!
IKR these crazy rabid guys, just arguing about fountain hooking is a bug exploit and shit. and im just sit here thinking. isn't that puppey sitting next to dendi?
its unfair or bla bla u can talk anything, BUT its HISTORICAL moment of dota2 like notail said "u can win the game even in a weird ways" I agree with him. THIS IS DOTA DUDE!
@Jebaited LUL yeah most likely. The stress after Fly, Cr1t and S4 left OG then finding one more player to fill in for mid role. Glad they found Topson and Ana came back then Ceb took the offlane role.
just letting you guys know there was a match where loda tried the fountain hook just before this happened and failed so miserably. I forgot who was matched up against them though.
I actually think that Loda is on-point here and justified in making a scene (although he didn't do it in the most dignified way). Keep in mind that Alliance play Na'Vi after this. The fountain-hook is a carry-over mechanic from DotA 1 days where the hook would mimic the movement of the pudge and the end-point trigger in the original skill was to pull the target to Pudge's location right at the moment of impact or max hook extension. It is not technically a "strat" in itself, although it *does* require skill, planning, timing and nerves of steel to pull it off. The reason it was removed was because it was deemed unfair to a team that had played well, been ahead the whole game and had the advantage (a big chunk of it) removed with little-to-no cost for the other team. Two fast-cooldown skills with no risk to the heroes using them do not merit the takedown of an Aegis carrying, semi full-slotted hard carry. When a fountain hook hits you, there's almost nothing you or your teammates can do to save you. It outpaces buyback cooldown, goes through BKB, has crazy range and completely destroys 1-core strats. The reason Na'Vi was allowed that win was because it was such a crazy move to do that nobody had thought of utilising it prior. The sheer creativity was mind-blowing. The crowd *loved* it, this had never been done before. Much less on a professional level. Valve had no precedent (although them removing it was the right move). And let's face it, this definitely makes the top ten list of greatest things to have ever happened in DotA. This was fucking cool. Hats off to the attitude the Chinese players have here. They look first to themselves for areas where they can improve and take the loss in their stride, never complaining or bitching about this OP (yet fucking cool) mechanic. They just look for ways to overcome it and blame themselves for not being better. Imo, this was what made Chinese teams so great.
Edit: I could be very wrong about the carry-over mechanic. In DotA 2, it seems more like the hook drags the target back to the position of Pudge while the hook is still extending.
@@just_some_bigfoot_hacking_you Have you ever seen the dirt calling itself" Europe" or "Asia"? Go figure you smartass-wanna-be dumbass. I am not talking about territory but occupiers.
@@Todsor Calm down Teroph is probably just some ignorant American or something similar since he speaks about Europe as if it is a country even tho it contains 44 countries with all unique cultures.
+EMPEROR HAN Chinese peeps are literally one of the best players in Dota if you ask me. I played in a Chinese server once, and I lost 247 mmr in 3 days
It was not easy to pull off, yes, but the effort is not equal to the result. Is it balanced for 2 underfarmed heroes to kill 1 carry with full item that easily?
@@okkydirgantaraohara126 if it was THAT easily, everyone would've been doing it. Loda even tried that, and failed. But instead only dendi and puppey had the balls to go for it in the middle of a TI losing match and pull it off, making them win the game. Hats off for that.
Ahh, yes... The time of Pudge wannabes and the Dragon Claw hook's stock price rose through the sky. I'm in tears. Dota was the biggest part of my youth.
Fountain hook requires precision and trust both to your teammates perspective as well as focus.That can't be perfectly be just a bug. Those timing became one of renowned scenes in the game
Fountain Hooking isn't 'Wrong' Is Animation Cancelling Wrong? Is Creep Blocking Wrong? These tactics are all things that was discovered by the Community Yes, they were unintentional but we made them part of the Game
The US has 46 gold medals, UK has 27 and China 26. Also Europe has 500+ million people not 65 million. Also on a per capita basis Bahrain beats all three in gold medals.
I undertsand Loda's point of being a mechanic abuse that can really break the game, but on the other hand it takes serious balls to pull that off and that alone deserves respect. First of all you need to draft Pudge on your team in such a big stage which was (and still is) quite unorthodox Hooking someone at a TI stage is quite hard because, lets be honest, we're talking about the best players in the world, they will be prepared and have cat reflexes to dodge the hook. Then the amount of coordination required to pull that move is insane. You needed 2 players to coordinate their spells in a 1 second window without counting the hook travel time and distance. I think thats why the chinese didnt mind about it, they recognize that they should be dodging those hooks in the first place and they know that dota always was an high risk high reward game., and tbh thats why i love this game. Im so glad i got to watch this game live.
Honestly, I never considered the fountain hook to be a bug. It was just another of those crazy and fun strats that you could use in DotA and it worked so well because Navi could actually pull it off in a tournament. Navi is still today remembered today as the team that could adapt to any situation. At that time they embodied what DotA is all about: everything and anything is possible in this game. And I´m glad that it didn´t change when they removed it. The difference today is that there are many more teams that have become as flexible as Navi was, to the point of surpassing them. Anyway, the fountain hook was a two edged sword, you could triumph brilliantly if you made it work or lose horribly if you failed the hook, so I don´t know what Loda´s problem is/was...
okay im playing dota again after 2yrs.. this vdeo always gets me back into the game.. reminds me what dota is all about... the fountain hook is one thing but what the players comment what moves me...damn i love dota...
I've been playing Dota for about 6 years now since Dota from WC3, till date only played 2 League games in my life. You actually don't even make sense. You're telling me a bug/abuse brings more people to the platform than TI2 wombo combos, TI1 enigma offlane, TI3 rats, TI4 deathball. You're funny, I like you.
Mark Chew In TI 3 Event Iam not Playing dota in that time then I hear a news about the fountain hook to my friends I don't know where but THE FOUNTAIN HOOK Is one of the reason why dota is popular and btw u talk like a pro huh
Arjim Banuelos It is really hard to explain what I'm trying to get across here. In my opinion Dota2 is popular because the game mechanics, it's more competitive, endless combinations, more reactionary gaming compared, and less grinding required (compared to league which you need to unlock heroes, and although my grinding phase is over). Fountain hook in my opinion is just a bug, a normal bug you can find in every new patch. A bug WILL not be my choice whether the game attracts me or not, and I don't think that applies to any game. If CSGO had a bug where you could see through walls, do you think people are attracted? Whereas if CSGO had a mechanic where certain materials can be wallbang, do you think they are attracted better?
@@guyinspideysuit7500 Huge gaming moment that made the news -> more sponsors -> more hype -> more viewers Same thing why OG is probably the best thing that ever happened to dota, long lasting games need interesting stories, just look at csgo and how many memorable moments it had
Loda too salty the fountain hook was actually a part of the dota physics plus it needs timing to be done. They didnt remove fountain hook because it was unfair, it was removed because everyone would focus trying to do it
More of a player interaction thing came in play. Like getting hooked and just dying in a combat is ok since it doesn't seem too bs. It's a player vs player thing. Even after you get hooked, there are options. But fountain hook made it seem like a player vs game thing where the only way to prevent it is either banning it or 'just dodge it' - 0 options. This kind of mechanic in my opinion is not so healthy for the game.
It is still using the regular hooking mechanism, but required incredible timing and skill on Navi's part to pull off. If you can dodge a regular hook, you can dodge these. Besides, with a fountain hook, you have enough time to teleport back to base while being hooked. It's not as unfair as it seemed.
I think its pretty unfair. But in navi's case i think it was fair cause they tried to come up with something for them to turn the tides. Creative even though pressured
NOt saying that lodad was right. But this is completely different. It was a BUG, you shouldn't hook someone to the fountain. Using NP to backdoor was just a strategy. not a bug abuse.
It was definitely the right call to remove the Fountain hook interaction, but I'm so glad this happened at least for a while. The memories are precious.
God bless Dendi, God bless Puppey, forever ethched in our hearts and we were lucky enough to be at the time when that happened, to witness it live... what a beautiful memory watching it over night in cybercafe with the guys.
@@DOZY69 I didn't say that I am successful. Just saying that such "legendary" stuff happening in video games, aren't legendary. Now try to pull such things off irl. Now THAT is legendary. P.S. Keep your petty attempts to insult to yourself, unless you are in the right.