The KingKiller Chronicles | Fantasy Series Review 

And Bast!

@@johaneriksandberg and tempi

'Auri,Auuuurriii!' Soldier boy voice.

@@cloudbloom is that the one in rogues? If so not yet but I already got the book it's waiting in line

@@cloudbloom thanks! Just had a look though it was from the anthology book "rogues" , it's 20some short stories with different rogue characters, I don't recognize most authors myself outside of Rothfuss and George RR Martin but looking forward to reading it, look it up!

Exactly. I've always assumed her to BE the name of the wind.

Glad to read I'm not the only elder reader of the serie.

change name to dorian gray, you'll live to see the day

Keep going my dude! You got this!

Yeah I understand how sometimes it almost seems like kvothe does to well, but I really dont think so.

Thank you!!! I don't get where people get it from that he is perfect and never fails. Did they not read the book?

Yeah but he also you know- is a savant musician, singer, songwriter, alchemist, invents some stuff to deflect arrows, kills the giant drugged dragon thing, gets money, gets good in fighting in a short time, gets good in magic in a short time, gets it going with some people and gets friends, his biggest problems are some noble men and a door. He even killed a chandrian or at least fought and drove them away. Idk. It gets a bit tiring. I still love the dude and story though.

Thank you! I don´t know why some people overlook his constant struggle with money and the fact the he´s bullied by Ambrose, and that he does a lot of stupid things, most of the times because he overestimates himself or underestimates others.

One of his other points was the no one had entered the university at a younger age, but that’s simply incorrect: Elodin was 14 when he entered the arcanum and 18 when he got his gilder.

Yeah, he was kicked out at a younger age than most were allowed in. But Elodin was younger when he came to the University.

Exactly, this struggle also plays so perfectly with you as a reader I feel, you really want him to succeed it makes you hold your breath wondering if he will and everytime he does and finds some stability and security he almost immediately loses is on some level and you really feel that loss, atleast that's how I experience it. Love these books so much I started reading name of the wind in a swedish translation then couldn't find one for wise man's fear so I read that in english and I don't even notice switching languages cause the story has me so captivated.

I would add that the author is shooting at us that this story will end in tears. Also, this series is probably not the main story, it's the explaining of the world and the actions that lead to the stage of the main story. even PR has said something along the lines of "I´m an author that has convinced you to read a million word prolog"

I think that's intentional, people in love always overestimate how great the person is, and others may not see it.

To be fair, Kvothe is a 15 year old having his first crush. Shit's intense.

@@rogerfvb I agree. Rothfuss makes that clear when Bast said that Denna was beautiful, but she wasn't as flawless as Kvothe made her sound. People throughout the book also say that Denna sounds cruel when described, but Kvothe brushes that off. He has some serious blinders on. He can only speak vaguely because he has created his own image of her. Just like everyone else.

@@sarahmchugh4169 Exactly, that's why I love Denna. What we know about Denna is really more information about Kvothe. Like... that's a unhealthy relationship but is it THAT weird that a guy with Kvothe's closeness issues (which Fella points out in the end of WMF) would go for a the most aloof girl and put her on a piedestal rather than a real relationship? I think he is protecting himself from a real relationship by focusing on Denna instead of connecting with girls that suits him better, because he is still traumatized from the loss of his family. A relationship would mean that he would have to talk to someone about that someday, and at 17 he is just not there yet.

@@pairot01 agreed, that is the only redeeming factor, but also the people he is with, he is basically in new york. a place like that would be much more savage.

No Devi would still beat him, she is said to be better than Elxa Dal, the master sympathist and she can do 8 sympathetic binding while Kvothe limit is 5. You misread the fight, Kvothe first goes to an inn to collect ashes, so he can use the energy of the fire to do his binding, then he takes one of Devi hair to put it on his doll, to bind Devi and even if Kvothe has a doll and a source of energy he is not able to prevent Devi from moving, Devi who has no source of energy and is under Kvothe's binding is still able to reach her pocket warmer and once she does Kvothe gets destroyed

FMA and jojo bizarre

Get LIT I’ve never agreed with a post more

Get LIT it’s taken from a different series, Rothfuss admitted he took it

Wow... just wow. This comment is just blowing me away... Like this is EXACTLY how I feel.

@@YourBlackLocal I have to point out that sympathy is from Egyptian Mythology

Captured in Words I'm a fan of both you guys. I got a lot of reading recommendations from both of you.

I'd rather his blind spot be denner resin. Lord, Denna sucks. I can't find much to like about her. She's supposed to be very pretty, she sings incredibly well, and has musical talent. Beyond that though, she's the furthest thing from a catch. I can list many ways she sucks but it can all be boiled down to the fact that she lives in lies. Her relationships, her actions, her many names, etc. She exists in falsehood. When you meet someone like this, you run. You GTF away from them, as they are toxic. Rothfuss tries to get around this by having her be more open and true towards Kvothe and has him play the male girlfriend operating their relationship on lies as well {ie "we're just friends") but this just adds to the disaster. If they some how end up together it's going to feel so phony.

@@KUNTAR I think that was the point. Kvothe is blind to her faults.

@@KUNTAR She IS denner resin! His fleeting moments with her, the high, make him feel so good he chases her all over the place and missing her is worse than actually being with her ever was good. Names are gigantic in this series and hers is damn near heroin(denner). They even have that whole subplot with the denner resin in case it wasnt clear enough yet. At the end Kvothe is literally chasing a dragon on a path of destruction. (Draccus to be fair) The question is does she do this knowingly to ensnare him? She had the yllish knot in her hair for lovely and was embarrassed when kvothe could read it, like she was found out.

@@jschoma11 I believe you about the analogy. I'm just saying she is toxic and not a catch. Anyone who has ever known someone like this has experienced the downward spiral such a person will draw you into. If that is how the story plays out, that will be fitting. But if the story takes a "she is just misunderstood and has always been good" turn, that will stink. It would play out a male girlfriend's fantasy rather than have any ties to how real world toxic relationships work out. I am sure there are plenty of "Knight in Shining Armor" type teens that would love the story taking a path where Denna is just misunderstood and by Kvothe unfailingly worshipping her she is redeemed but with how people in abusive relationships predominantly work in reality she will only spin Kvothe down a tragic path.

Oh absolutely she isn't healthy for him. I'm not sure she is inherently wrong or malicious but the way he obsesses over her only hurts him. One thing that's certain is the Cthaeth uses his unhealthy obsession with her to manipulate Kvothe and into continuing seeking Cinder. If we believe the Cthaeth is evil does that mean the chandrian arent? I think eventually we end up with Kvothe either learning that the Chandrian are not evil and/or he kills Cinder and has to take his place among them. I think what breaks him is either learning his whole life has been a lie or becoming what he set out to destroy.

I agree to a large extent, and what's funny to me is that he is amazing at so many complex and difficult things, but then we see his "weaknesses" when he fails at something that should be far beneath him. Like math, or Yllsh knots, or alchemy, or the Yllsh language. But then he succeeds to a level almost as if he were one in 10 million in so many other things, like Singing, his Lute, his Sympathy, his Naming, his Lethani/Ketan (they said in one year he'd be as good as Tempi), Songwriting, etc. I don't mind hero's with talents, but there comes a point where you're like, "Okay, you're the best at that too?".

@@KUNTAR I agree completely, it really dissolves all of the tension in what should be nerve-racking scenes. His weaknesses are like if someone made a character as strong and perfect as Superman but realized how ridiculously strong he is so they say, "well I'll make him bad at math and have some difficulties in social situations. Problem solved."

Dude he's not a prodigy at the Adem martial arts... he trains for months just to sometimes hold his own against a 10 year old girl.

yeah, & she has a lot of ' sugar dad's '....kvothe completely friend zones himself in the first book.

It’s probably those knots/braids in her hair. They’re enchanted I’d wager

To be fair, thats only because kvothe waited to apply. His knowledge didn't improve at all while he was in Tarbein, so he could've just got in when he was 12 of he had went to the university immediately after his troupe was killed

@@williamdavis671 That's very likely true, but the fact remains.

I've never understood this criticism that Kvothe is so good at everything. He's not! Typically he is mostly shown doing things he enjoys or is a prodigy at, yes, but he is the one telling the story, and so he skips the stuff he doesnt like, which, he drops out of math and chemistry because he cant do them, he has a terrible temper that frequently gets him into trouble, he also falls off an inn breaking and entering, something he should be "perfect" at, and nearly dies and spends weeks recovering and desperately trying to protect himself and his friends essentially keep him alive, then collaborate with him in one of the best scenes of any of the books to help him succeed the second attempt. He makes brash and foolish decisions sometimes. We see him succeed and fail at things he does to varying degrees, it's not just win win win all the time.

I know what you mean, but i think he's good at a lot of things because of what he is. Kvothe's not exactly a normal person, like most other people in the book. I think talents like his wit/music/survival skills/language are largely due to an enlightened upbringing like Ben says.

Dude. My thoughts exactly. It's like rolling 18's down the board in D&D.

Something else to consider is that with Kvothe being the narrator of his own story to Chronicler, Patrick Rothfuss could be playing with an Unreliable Narrator. And that really makes this entire story fascinating. This is Kvothe's tale coming from his own mouth. We could very easily come to the end of the series,just to find out that a lot of this stuff was made up. That maybe he didn't pull off half of the things he's claiming he's done.

Alsooo, people FORGET that he is just a freeking fly trying to fight gods. There is a reason for why he is basically an emotional wreck in present and why he has become a weak piece of nothing. He changed his name, he caused the war, he killed, etc. We already know that he basically had a HUGE failure from the get go. Yes he is a genius, so he gets things faster and he is someone who can be in the ranks of selitos, lyra and probably even Iax. But there is also a reason why the chandrian let him live, he will do something wrong, he will serve them in some way or another, he is a huge victim here and there is ALWAYS the pressure of this behind all of his wins, always are those wins just stepstones of his life that is doomed to tragedy. There are also many many many falls that others mentioned and people just forget about those, because they cannot stand a genius. All of you should check out Berserk manga where the main character is VERY similar to Kvothe in a sense that he has many wins and is incredibly strong. The main character is basically the strongest fighter of the human race, but again, he does many many many mistakes! And for some reason he is not hated at all, he is beloved like no character ever! He is not a genius, but he is basically Kvothe that is a physique genius. Dont get me wrong, I love Guts, but people should give Kvothe a break!

You should!

And Half-Life 3

This comment is fire. Cthaeh and Rhaegar definitely had tea before the tourney at Harrenhal

yeah but kvothe stopped learning from ben at 13. and then had a 3-year break after, so he could of got emitted at 13.

1. I feel like while a lot of Kvothe's success comes from having a silver tongue, a lot is due from just being amazing at everything. LIke his success in sympathy, music, martial arts, naming, sygaldry, etc. And you can argue that this story in its nature is about a legendary figure so he has to be amazing at everything, but that doesn't solve any of the problems that accompany having a perfect character- not being relatable, blandness, lack of tension during important sections, etc. I pretty much never felt that Kvothe was in any serious danger during the books because of this and that is a problem. It's like arguing that "this movie was about an uninteresting event so it is OK for the movie to be uninteresting!" The logic isn't wrong but that doesn't change the fact that the movie was boring. Also, a book about Newton's life that only consisted of him being presented math problems and then successfully solving them would be a problem with the book- even if he was an amazing thinker. 2. All the failures you mention are superficial in nature and just set up for him to succeed in other ways. Yes, he falls off roofs but they never really impact the story or him in a serious way- he always gets patched up without any chronic injuries or lasting problems. Yes he runs out of money, but he always finds a way to get it back by being amazing at something else. Yes he has a bully, but always ends up finding a way to outsmart him. Basically all these "failures" are really just brick walls set up for Kvothe to smash through in impressive ways. I'm not saying that the books aren't good or that Kvothe won't eventually have to face some sort of serious consequences- since he clearly does as Kote the innkeeper, but you can't say that he isn't Mary Sue to some extent. He is pretty much the definition of one.

@@TheChicoPapa But the book made sure to show that he isn't the best at anything. He is very intelligent, that is true, but not the best. He went to Adem and learned quickly, but absolutely every warrior there is still superior to him. Since he ended his training there, it isn't likely that he will advance in that regard. Also, even though he is a prodigy at binding, Devi is still better than him. She isn't even that much older than him. He doesn't catch on to naming magic as quickly as Fela. And he still struggles with it when he isn't in danger. He learned Tema quickly, but he struggles with other languages. He is smart, bit he isn't amazing at math. He has only really learned about a few subjects at the University. Of he was a Mary Sue he would have mastered everything and been better than the teachers. Finally, he always gets into trouble that could have been prevented if he wasn't so prideful. He constantly makes absolutely awful decisions. As in, major flawed logic. He is definitely very flawed.

​@@sarahmchugh4169 The fact that he is prideful (which leads to conflict he overcomes) and there are characters better than him in certain areas of expertise doesn't at all take away from the fact that he is a Mary Sue in my mind. A Mary Sue isn't necessarily someone who is the best in the world at everything they do; in fact there are characters in other stories who practically are the best at everything they do, but are not Mary Sues. A character becomes a Mary Sue when their extreme proficiency in many fields leads to a character that readers cannot relate to or identify with. This character then causes the conflicts in the story, which should be full of tension, to have a great lack of tension or anticipation about what will happen- which is exactly what happens with Kvothe. Also, the examples you listed, I think, perfectly illustrates how he is a Mary Sue. Sure he isn't the best at every single thing, but what other character you listed is even close to being comparably proficient as Kvothe in as many areas and in as little time? With the Adem, sure he is not the best warrior there compared to those who have dedicated their lives to the art, but he is pretty much the fastest learner and exceeds way beyond what would be reasonable for someone with no fighting training. They even say he would surpass Tempi soon if he keeps it up. He can't yet beat Devi yet but still completely surpasses everyone else in his class, and can outmatch people who have been studying it for much longer. Even the Fela example I would argue is wrong: while Kvothe wasn't as successful in the classroom, he utilizes naming in extremely powerful and more practical ways outside of it- like calling the wind, breaking free from the sex goddess, etc. I can name a ton of examples but the point I'm trying to make is that he doesn't have to be the absolute best at everything to be an unrelatable, unrealistically extraordinary protagonist. Kvothe isn't the best at every single thing, but he's the unreasonably good at doing all of the important things that, together, are central to getting through the conflicts of the story.

​@@TheChicoPapa The fact, that Kvothe can tell the whole story as Kote shows you that he will survive the whole thing. The tension is in how he does it. And he often does it in cool and extraordinary ways. It's never a deus ex machina moment. All his skills are well established. As when he succeeds with winning his pipes despite missing a lute string it's not magical. He learned to play that way for weeks, when he was a kid. Most of his skills resolve in being a quick learner and a good actor. As Ben said, he is an extraordinarily good learner. He rarely needs to hear things twice and never makes the same mistake twice. Of course he is extraordinary. By the time he is an innkeeper he is quite a legend. It is in fact fascinating, that all these exorbitant stories are based on events that were quite ordinary. One step leads to another. Nothing seems to come out of nowhere.

@@nerzer11 I don't think I said that he succeeds because of deus ex machinas, or that there shouldn't be tension because we know he lives through the story. I agree their should be tension for how he solves these problems too (though I don 't believe there is much of it). I didn't even say his skills weren't well established in the narrative. I also think it's interesting that these exorbitant stories are often quite ordinary. I don't really know why this comment was directed at me to be honest, we agree on most things. I do think it's strange to say his plethora of skills comes down to him being a quick learner, as if that takes away from the fact that he's amazing at everything he does? Of course people are good at things because they are good learners, that's the only way to get good at most things. I was really only arguing over one thing, not about most of the points you brought up. I did enjoy the books.

bard thief wizard. but in d&d terms bard is the last you acquire. it actually plays out poetically to the history of dnd, and he has the perfect skill-set to be a bad ass. i really hate that hes a liar and a thief tho, not only does it cause him all of his trouble, its only teaching to be a liar to impressionable minds. but considering him being taught performing, acting is basically living a lie anyway so i guess its fitting to a refined mind. now, when he performs magic music, he will have acquired bard, hes still just a thief wizard.

I almost share your view

BS is a great writer, but his writing is simple and straight to the point. GRRM has a much more complex story to write for more characters, and PR focuses on prose much more than the other two. At the same time, the latter two don't seem to outline their novels extensively as much as BS!