Interesting fact on day two Abby and Ellie are both in the hospital. You can hear the rat king roar right as ellie beats Nora. Nora was protecting her friend while Abby was fighting the rat king in ground zero.
I thought this but question the timing. Can clearly hear the rat King, but you also hear talk of Abby having already escaped these contradict each other
@@mikeplayer5208 i totally get you but none of the wolves know exactly where abby is. Remember Nora helped her escape and then sent her to ground zero and for all the wolves know she is gone but don't know where.
So many people think this but it isn’t true, when playing as Abby after leaving the hospital you can clearly see the guards on the walls are still alive showing that Ellie hadn’t arrived yet.
Also another fact they were both there - the power gets turned on while playing as Ellie. Right after her and Nora fall into the pit containing the spores. The only way for the power to be turned on would be manually. Meaning Abby was in the basement turning on the power to get through those doors. The soldiers even get startled on the top floor with Ellie when it gets turned on.
You forgot the tapes Joel finds on the hospital. The cure was not a 100% thing, others immune test subjects like Elly, died without a positive result and cure....Part 2 writers didn't even mention those facts or simply ignored to put some drama and blame Joel.
They didn't mention this because it has no bearing on the plot. It's the players needing justification that Joel saving Ellie was the right thing to do, who want this to be brought up again. But for Joel saving Ellie was a no-brainer. Even if the vaccine was a 100% thing, at that point Joel needed Ellie to live, and there was very little that would have stopped him. In Part II there are only a handful of people left who knew Jerry. Abby, Mel, Owen. So you have the former fireflies who trusted a vaccine could be made and mourn the loss of opportunity and hope and, on a personal level, the loss of Jerry. And you have Joel, who probably would have chosen Ellie over a cure anyway. So what authority should Naughty Dog have invented to step on a soap box and be the judge of who had more of a right to go on a killing spree?
@@ruthiekest3218 His death is hard to watch, I certainly don't enjoy that. But despite his death, he is very present. There are awesome, lengthy flashbacks that give some insight into their life in Jackson. The gameplay and visuals are amazing, and the story is really well told. It may not be the story some people wanted, but it's an unusual challenge to be playing as the killer of the previous main character. Quite the twist,and a risky move by Naughty Dog. The backlash is not pretty.
@@ruthiekest3218 Lol people forget how big of a POS Joel was dude was killing and robbing and possibly eating people he also killed the doctor for no reason he could have knocked him out
My only concern when it came to the last of us, is when everybody seems to forget about one other aspect of the events taken place in the last game at the ending. It seems everyone forgot that the fireflies where going to kill Joel regardless if he had tried to save ellie. You find a voice recorder of Marlene talking about how all the other fireflies wanted Joel dead and Marlene caved in and allowed them to carry out that plan. I wished that it wasn't a collectable and was given to us in a cutsecene because people keep missing out on that important fact. Like yeah Joel did save Ellie for his own personal conflictions but he was also forced in a situation that would force him into fending for himself as well. And I believe no one here would just simply agree to die just so some group of people can possibly botch up a possible chance of mankind's survival. I say this because many people believed that Abby father was tremendously stupid on the fact that they have to kill ellie just to see how her body can naturally protect her from the fungal infection, eventhough his idea was that the spinal fluid surrounding the brain is what's protecting her but he never does a spinal fluid check which would have been a much better option as to not loose your only chance at a cure. I just think that the second game didn't help with clearing things about Joel and the fire flies causing these misconceptions of how people viewed them.
"They asked me to kill the smuggler. I'm not about to kill the one man in this facility that might understand the weight of this choice. Maybe he can forgive me." Why you lying, bro?
@@krasmasov6852 my mistake, I interpreted the recording as she if she was going to let the others do it for her. The part when she hoped that Joel can forgive her sort of sounded like it was the go ahead to kill him, but it was actually ment towards her letting ellie die. That was my big mistake, but I still stand by the other things I did say about the doctor rushing into this and the second game not clearing Joel or the fireflies very well
That's a really good observation, and while I haven't played the games myself--I've just seen play throughs--I do see your point. I still sympathize with Joel either way, and definitely hate Abby.
37:01 Thank you. I noticed that many people kinda overlook this important observation. Part of the reason why Ellie is so traumatized after torturing Nora and this is exactly why Ellie later tells Dina “I don‘t want to lose you“. Ellie was terrified that she might suffer the same fate as Abby. Losing (more) of her loved ones. I am pretty convinced that Nora not only revealed Abby‘s location, but also the exact reason for what Abby did: that the surgeon was Abby‘s father. And that happened off-screen. That‘s why Ellie later replied evasively to Jesse when asked “why they did it“ referring to Abby and her friends.
Amazing recap....... Just my two cents here: Everybody didn't forget that the military killed his daughter. Even the guy that killed his daughter told his commanding officer, they are not infected and it's a little girl. The commanding officer still confirmed the shooting and the guard still shot anyways. Is Joel a bad guy? Yes and No, but he's angry. He's angry that a human being murdered his daughter. It wasn't like his daughter was killed by a runner, stalker, etc. Now this doctor comes along saying he can create a cure that isn't guaranteed and this is to save the future of humanity. Humans took the life of his daughter and he wasn't going to let another human take the life of Ellie. Again this is my opinion - but in his mind he doesn't give a shit about humanity bcuz they killed Sarah and were going to kill Ellie. NOT ON HIS WATCH. I also wish Abby knew the story of Joel and how his daughter was murdered by the military. In Joel defense, the doctor could've gotten out of the way and let him take Ellie. He did pull a scalper on Joel. Joel didn't torture Abbys dad like Abby did to Joel. BIG AND... Play that part again where Joel kills Abbys Dad... If you do nothing, the FireFlies come in and dump a whole mag into Joel.... BOOOM 🙂
I thought in the game you were playing as ellie when she sneaks in and sees Abby killing Joel. There's no choice she kills him in the cutscene. So, if ellie does nothing, then fireflys come in and kill Joel? So either way he dies?
@@DoorsToHideBehind156 I was talking about TLOU Part 1 - the hospital scene where Joel gets to the operating room. If Joel just stands there in front of the doctors long enough, the fireflies will run in and kill Joel. Part 2 - Abby brutally murdered Joel based on emotion for her dad. Of course she pissed and we now understand why Abby killed Joel. However, she totally negates the part that her dad wanted to murder Ellie. Even though he was torn about doing and Abby said if that were me I would want to die as well. However, the dad was incompetent... Didnt even want to take the time to study her. We all know vaccines and cures takes time to develop after testing soo many times. In this case - he just resulted to, lets open up her brain and kill her to "try" and make a cure... He's already failed with a bunch others and its safe to say he will fail with Ellie.
Harry, Long time viewer here I just usually keep quiet. I can’t begin to say how much your videos mean. It is so wonderful to hear and see someone take the time to dissect these games in the way that their fans feel they deserved to be. I have a recommendation for a game I think you would really like: Twelve Minutes. I think this would be an excellent addition to the channel, if you haven’t played it already. That’s all I have. Please keep up the great work. ❤️
When Joel confesses the truth to Ellie in the second game, all he says is: "Making a vaccine would have killed you. So I stopped them". Except, no, this is a retcon and that's not what happened in the first game. And this distorted re-telling is an inferior version of the story, which strips away a lot of the human element and realistic nuance to the whole picture, to try and make things more black & white and deliver a more bleak, depressing and pointless message, which I personally find offers a lot less value to us (as the audience, I guess). A great narrative or story is a gift to those it reaches, which can teach us so much, just by being authentically human. It often holds a lot less value when it tries to give some subjective commentary on certain values, or thinks it has a message for the masses etc. That's tricky ground for a writer, in my opinion. The best stories are relatable, and what makes something relatable is it being a 'human' story, even if it's set in a fantasy world, time, or place. A story could be set on one of Jupiter's moons in the year 1 billion AD, with alien dolphin creatures and still be a human story. Making a story more simple, one-sided, or without enough context makes it far less human. So here's my recollection of what Joel did at the end of the first game: The fireflies acted stupidly, knocking Joel out whilst he was obviously no threat and just trying to resuscitate a young girl. He awakes to find them rushing her immediately into surgery, to perform a procedure which definitely will kill her. And they refuse to allow either him or Ellie to be offered a proper explanation, time to breathe, or the ability to CHOOSE for themselves whether or not they want to make the ultimate sacrifice for THEIR mission. He is treated with literal violence and contempt and is threatened with death once he voices the briefest of protest to what they're doing. On the other hand, the fireflies obviously feel their mission is altruistic and of great benefit to what's left of humanity. They have suffered and sacrificed a lot for this mission, even though a significant amount of their losses was purely down to their own incompetence and one-sightedness. The "one person who could have made a vaccine" was killed by Joel because he chose to pick up a scalpel, point it at Joel, and state clearly that he wouldn't allow Joel to prevent him from carrying out his work on Ellie, which let's remind ourselves WILL KILL HER (a 14 year old girl). What I enjoyed so much about the first game's plot was that it was an interesting, complex and nuanced situation, with opposing perspectives and totally different experiences of life tragically coming into conflict with each other. You see the fireflies side, with their high mission, the obvious potential benefit of their goal, but their far-from-perfect ways. And then you feel simultaneously how Joel, with many of his own flaws, didn't really have much of a choice, and how the decisions of the fireflies railroaded him to act with the extreme measures he took. There were no easy or clearly superior solutions to the conflict. Neither Joel nor the fireflies have clean hands in the situation, and neither is a passive passenger helpless on the ride. Nothing is distorted black and white, and everything has a deep context to it. This makes it real and therefore, human. This makes it a worthwhile story which doesn't leave you feeling empty, hollow and depressed afterwards (like the second game does) even though it's a tragic and dark story. There, I finally said what's been on my mind about it. Now I can stop spouting so many words like there's no tomorrow haha
Thanks for your comment! Really good reading. Yeah, I mean ultimately I would've liked to have had that porch scene happen about 2 years earlier, not the day before Joel was killed. I would have been really invested in seeing Joel expand more on his justification for saving Ellie from the Fireflies, and really wanted to see him and Ellie repair their relationship. I (personally) feel like fans were robbed of that in a sense
@@GamingHarryYT Thanks for replying! It was quite the long preachy rant I went on, and I got majorly carried away by it haha. It was just bubbling away for months and I was trying to understand why Part 2's story left me feeling empty and fatigued afterwards, while the first game stuck with me for a long time in a good way, and made me reflect a lot on everyone's actions, and what would I do in the shoes of Joel, Marlene, or the fireflies etc. Yeah, I agree with you and really felt something big was missing how Joel never explained to Ellie what really happened, or gave his own justification. They even had the "God gave me a second chance" line from him, which seemed like such a cop out and weak writing when the first game already made the original situation deep and multi-sided...Anyway, I really have to step away from the keyboard now! Thanks again!
@@Aspir7 but still that is what happened tho, the cure woulda killed her and he stopped them...joel is not a man of many words and would never really open up to some big explanation of his feelings and thoughts anyway...his way of handling it was to just lie to her so she could move on with her life without needing to think "what if" or ask him "why" (because he also knows deep down, a big reason why he did what he did was due to his own selfishness of losing another baby girl)...there was no explanation that would satisfy her drive to be the sacrificial lamb that saved millions, and he knew that too. When joel does come to in the hospital and marlene is in shock that they survived the trip, he credits it all to Ellie because he even tried to convince her they should just go back to jackson instead of going through with the unknown of finding a cure....she was determined to get there, and it couldn't all be for nothing
There’s no “retcon” dude. A retcon is the game literally rewriting an established event and they NEVER DID THAT. Joel never doubted that they could make a vaccine and what you’re doing now is itself robbing the game of its nuance by trying to paint the Fireflies as unsympathetic and incompetent as possible in order to dismiss the possibility that they had any moral justification for their actions.
even if you took the Fireflies side in that conflict, it would still be a nuanced experience, because the guy you’ve spent a whole game growing to love and empathize with is doing something horrible and yet you can’t blame him for it because you know what he’s been through and he’s backed into a corner where the only way for him to save his own soul is to doom millions of people to die. You don’t have to pile on heaps of accusations against the Fireflies to make them look like evil bastards, they’re obviously not and if you care about nuance I know you’d acknowledge this.
Not going to say I hated this game, but I wasn't fond of it. Maybe my high expectations for the story based on the first game had something to do with it.
Yeah I get you. For people to say they full on hated all of it, well that's a bit extreme. It featured some of the best gameplay I've seen in a long time. But yeah, story? 5/10
What really pisses me off, is how TLOU 1 built an amazing relationship for Joel and Ellie, only for this relationship to be tossed in the trash. I know in the apocalypse, these things happen, but Ellie in TLOU 2 wasn't giving Joel a proper chance to understand why he did what he did. Let alone they made Joel stupid by making it where he and Tommy told a group of strangers a brief description to where their base was. This game honestly gave me Feminism vibes, and it's mostly because of Abby. Her body design looks like a mans, and it's shown that some men are weak in this game. I also didn't like how we played as Abby, the one who killed a beloved character, and how Naughty Dog lied to us in the trailers, when they never even mentioned that there would be changes in the story. In the end, TLOU 2 was not worth the 7 year wait, as well as the 1 week it took me to beat this game. I'll give TLOU The Remake a chance, but if they change the story and make it bad, I'm gonna be pissed.
The relationship wasn't tossed in the trash at all. It's literally the entire foundation for Part 2. Also, Ellie did understand why Joel did what he did. She just doesn't value her life the same way Joel does, and that's what Joel was trying to do after the hospital. He wanted to help Ellie find meaning in her life beyond her immunity. Ellie's survivor's guilt got in the way of that. Also, Joel and Tommy did everything right. They just never had a chance. Also big lol that 8 people would pose a threat to Jackson. Well, yeah. Probably because women characters in the story are depicted as people with agency. That's pretty feminist. Why is that a bad thing? And no, Abby's design looks like a muscular woman because it was based on an actual real life muscular woman. Also, some men are weak in reality. What even is that critique? Oh no the game's realistic! Playing as Abby was cool. Love that it challenged players' emotions and preconceptions like that. Misleading trailers make the story more surprising, but marketing is ultimately irrelevant to the quality of a game. Yes, it was. It was easily on par with Part 1 if not outright better.
Killing the one and only doctor who can cure humanity, and it was my father. I'd be enraged too. It's a matter of perspective. Both Joel & the Fireflies have their own objectives and choices to make.
@@log7029 So many people dislike that about Part II. They feel like the game need to validate their feelings when the story about being uncomfortable with emotions and seeing the other side as human/flawed.
@@BlindedBraille I definitely understand that, the game was obviously so hit or miss. Some people think it’s a masterpiece, some people think it’s a failure. I think it falls somewhere in between, the story has its major faults, but the gameplay is amazing. (In my opinion)
@@friedby4 Tommy is alive, when Dina and Ellie have JJ and have a farmhouse he visits to tell them that Abby is in Santa Barbara, he cant walk properly and he is 50 percent blind.
Unpopular opinion, but I'm on Team Joel. Yes, I realize that maybe Ellie should've had a say in what would happen, but considering that Joel lost Sarah and that Ellie reminds him of her and is sort of a second daughter, can we really blame him for his actions? Maybe he was selfish, but it wasn't for the wrong reasons. Also, who's to say that if they did try to get a cure from Ellie that it would actually work? There's no guarantee of that and if they failed in finding a cure, it would also mean that they killed an innocent girl for no good reason. Why take that risk if it never worked? It would just be a waste of time.
A cure for a humanity, to bring back a species that ravaged the world. For the remaining few to hunt and feed on more people out of survival and sport. Yeah, I think I’d let the world burn for my remaining years and not risk a life on an off chance that a cure “might” work.
If it was my kid, I'd of done the same thing as Joel. Might sound harsh but, my son is my world. Yeah it's selfish but if you're a parent...you're conflicted. And yeah Joel is a bad guy but as you said is anyone that's left really good? If they're still alive most likely you've done some fucked up shit.
The one thing he did wrong, which also led to all this drama is that he didn't tell her the truth about saving her. a lot of the drama could have been avoided if he simply explained it to her "I lost Sarah, i couldn't lose you". She would have understood.
@@siddharthbhat2365nooooooo she knew he lost his daughter she’s very aware of the fact that he lost a child but she was unaware that she’d die in the surgery but only said that if it meant saving the world she’d sacrifice herself but she didn’t know that Abby’s dad & their group basically was gonna perform the surgery no matter she was informed & agreed or not informed & rebelled, what Joel should’ve told her is the real truth: I saved your life against your will because they ambushed us the way they did to do the surgery before u could change your mind & were willing to do it against your will if it meant possibly saving the world, & they wouldn’t let me see you one last time
Bruh I swear I only saw the other day that you'd just finished the first draft of the script? You smasshhhhhh these videos out for real! Respect for the grind haha! Class content as always
Wow what an incredible video, this helped me understand so much of what those “gangs” were actually trying to do. Props to you for finding all this information, you must be very smart
This is my first time hearing the story in full it’s not great not bad either I wish it was written less like a soap operatic episode of walking dead and more like an old man Logan style story (if you’ve read that story you got good taste)
Huh. Now you mention it, I do see the similarity. I haven't read Old Man Logan (or whatever the title is), but I've seen Logan a couple times. Joel is like Logan and Ellie is like the girl, X-23. Though X-23 is more of a clone of Logan whereas Ellie is no relation to Joel, but that's beside the point.
Joel was selfish but Joel was also a little psychotic. As someone who's survived some harrowing experiences myself I can tell you it takes something from you. The man had never had a moment of emotional resolution in his life. He was so bad at addressing his feelings his own brother walked away from him for a huge part of his life. (also something I've experienced in reverse) He couldn't hardly say goodbye to Tess. A man constantly collapsing under unresolved trauma can't plant his feet to make good decisions. A man plagued by loss is going to fight to hold onto what they feel they have left. By the time he woke up to hearing he was going to lose Ellie without even getting to say goodbye he was reacting like an unthinking machine lost to emotion. I always thought this part of his character was really well written and it shows intention in having the second game be about the effects and repercussions of that trauma.
Thank you for sharing your interpretation and explaining it with your own empathy. It seems like you are able to unpack the consequential effect it has on loved ones even though it isn't unpacked in the game. LToU p2 does something to make us work on that. Joel was unwilling to open up and this resulted eventually in sacrificing all that got in between himself and his closure, albeit an external substitute (or surrogate daughter) for family. Thanks again.
To be honest with you, if the world takes away the people you love from you, you will never have empathy. His wife, His daughter, His smuggling partner (Tess) Why would I wanna have empathy for the world?
I dont think Joel undermined Tess's Death, When He Was Talking To Ellie You Can Clearly See How Upset He Was, He Just Didn't Want To Talk About It, That's Just Joel's Personality
@@jnthn.mp3 yea they were pretty much wiped out, not sure if it was Ellie's and Tommy's actions that shifted the tides or not but either way the WLF are gone
@@briantariq1313 Its not that selfish, considering the fact that the world was too far gone for the vaccine to even matter at that point. Infrastructure gone, rule of law gone, roaming bands of bandits, the existing infected... the vaccine was a pipe dream. Something to chase and give their existence some meaning. It wouldnt have changed a thing.
Being put in Joel’s situation in real life, I would do exactly what he did. It would be very morally wrong, selfish and monstrous but I would do it out of love.
As much as it isn’t the story I wanted them to tell-and they probably could have told it better-it’s still clearly a really good story. I really wish it could’ve gotten the universal appeal the first game had
Yeah, I mean, I still love the fact that they didn't go with the whole 'virus escaped from a lab and destroyed the world' cliche. The virus was a literal accident of nature.
Then there's Ellie having a problem with killing Abby after she's killed a bunch of people just to get to her. I mean come on, where's the consistency?!
It’s a good story, except it’s a horrible sequel, cause it misses all the things that fans loved about the first game (which was mainly the father daughter relationship of ellie and joel) - and the tone of the first game, though dire, was hopeful, whereas as this game is much sadder and tragic (which is fine, it just doesn’t match the tone of the first)
@@stanleylee3329 I wish they would have just released like a 5 hour dlc with Ellie and Joel in those years. Would have made so many people who were disappointed with the second game happier.
This part confuses me. As Ellie beats Nora. I’m gonna assume Nora knew where Abby was gonna go, so she told Ellie the aquarium even tho Mel and Owen are their. Did she think it through so when Ellie gets there, it will be a 3v1 and Abby has a more chance of surviving?
Or maybe Ellie just tortured Nora and she just caved. I mean, it's implied by how shaken Ellie was afterwards that she had done something absolutely heinous.
Honestly if the fireflies could be single handedly taken out by Joel (and other forces yes), the I doubt they had the man power to mass produce a serum, to save an entire country.
I like the story and universe of The Last of us but I am not convince people can survive the fungi outbreak at all in areas where there are spores or you have to fight off the infected. The game made it look like there is a way by not getting bitten and spotting the spore clouds and wearing a mask to traverse through it. In reality it should be very hard to do so when you are in frantic combat with infected and they are trying their best to bite and scratch you. Not breathing in spore clouds is even harder when there isn't enough light and masks on hand.
I hate that Joel died, but he did deserve to die. He made so many enemies along the way it was bound to happen that they would find him and kill him. It's just the way the world in TLOU works. It wouldn't have made sense for him to get a happy ending considering all the damage he did.
“He deserved to die” eh not really. If we go by that logic, then everybody deserves to die since they all killed someone to stay alive. Among other things, this plot was laughable to say the least.
@@464588 Dude, when Abby killed Joel it didn’t stop her nightmares and in her pursuit she ruined her relationship with Owen and Mel and all her friends were killed by Ellie and Tommy. How is that a “win” exactly?… It’s like saying Ellie’s revenge quest was a win because she eventually let go of it and made peace with Joel’s death. Revenge caused nothing but suffering and death.
Top 3 stories I’ve ever played. The connections they make to the first game, and how the characters’ and their backstory all interact with each other is just simply amazing.
Yeah, I personally don't understand the majority of the fanbase slamming this game, as if they've been personally attacked by Naughty Dog. Yeah it had its flaws, but people got WAYYYY too emotionally invested
@@GamingHarryYT thank you man. I don’t understand it. If you don’t like it, don’t play it it’s as simple as that but being so emotionally invested in Naughty Dog will benefit you in no way shape or form.
@@GamingHarryYT The thing is, the majority of the fanbase isn't slamming this game. Most absolutely love it. It's just the haters are so loud with this game. Also they did a hell of a lot of reviewing bombing, like A LOT. Also videos on youtube will get more views if they are critical or something instead of enjoying it.
@@GamingHarryYT: Believe me, those who hate the game are not a majority at all, but a minority that is very loud… maybe most of the big gaming youtubers or streamers hate it, but then again, many of those people show heavy signs of egomania, delusions of grandeur, and on top of that, a huge lack of intellect…
@@cineastik8220 yeah tubers going on a hate spree was kinda crap. I get you need views but it definitely felt like they were jumping on the hate train for clicks
The main difference is that Abby killed Joel out of grief and misguided revenge, while Negan killed Glenn to make a show of force. Negan killed to ensure that things went his way from now on, Abby thought killing Joel would be the end of things.
In this game I have never understood why Ellie cant forgive Joel like they were going to kill her at 14 at 14 u havnt even started life yet whether life is going shit or great thats part of life they didnt even tell her that she would need to be sacrificed for it if she knew at 14 that thats what was going to happen I bet she would of declined but aftewards she actually wanted to.
You have to wonder if a back and forth approach doing solely days would have faired better. I kind of think it would have played better and avoided the i have to play through Abby fir 20 hours to get back to Ellie
Yeah as cliche as it sounds it would work for this game. The game is constantly switching climax and rising action. That was my main problem with the game's writing, alongside some OOC moments, but that's what they released.
The way you explain it makes me not hate this game anymore my cycle of hate has ended well done mate still not what I wanted from this I was hoping for more father daughter adventures but this helps easy my mind
3 года назад
I love the game specially Abby's redemption arc. This game is one of the best games ever made, Story is 10/10
I love the game personally Abby’s story was the worst part but I’m glad you love the last of us to. It’s good to see more people fall in love with the series’s no matter what the differences
I love Abby as a character but honestly I think her “redemption” arc was really just poorly done. Like she kills Joel, right? Shows no remorse for it. So we dislike and even hate her. All well and good for when you’re setting her up for a redemption arc. But here’s the thing: She never learns. She never expresses guilt or regret for any killing she does, even when she has to start gunning down the very people she was fighting to protect just a few days earlier. And then she gets to Ellie and Dina, finds out Dina’s pregnant, holds a knife to her throat and says, “good.” Then Lev says her name, gives her a look, and somehow that convinced her to stop? I understand the two had gotten close, but up to that point there was nothing to suggest that Lev has that kind of effect on Abby. Quite the opposite, in fact! As mentioned earlier, Abby shows no remorse in killing her old friends after they’re pitted against each other by her old leader. Why? Because Lev is her priority now. Keeping Lev safe is what matters to her, and if that means she has to kill those she used to be close to? So be it. At that point, Ellie had proven that if she leaves her alive, she will come back and kill her. And if Abby is dead, how is she supposed to protect the boy she’s bonded with? Given Abby’s priorities, it doesn’t make sense for her to suddenly be okay with not killing Dina and Ellie. But she is because they have plot armor. And, again, it just doesn’t make sense to her character or her story. Also, and this is more just me nitpicking now, if you’re (“you” being the writers) trying to give a character a redemption arc, maybe don’t have that same character knowingly have sex with someone who is in a relationship? Especially when the person they’re sleeping with’s significant other is pregnant?? Like that’s not gonna get people to be on their side.
@@primroseprom you say Abby never has any guilt or regret for killing but I disagree she literally starts to have nightmares after killing Joel suggesting that it didn’t give her the peace that she thought it would that’s when it starts to click in her head there’s no point to killing Ellie’s friends because it’s not going to do anything for her emotionally and the only reason she went after Ellie again was for revenge but once she gets there lev acts a person that saves her from treading down a dark path like Ellie did by reminding her it’s not worth it and for the fact of her killing the people she used to work with, what else was she supposed to do in that situation let them kill her ?
@@sumyungho1727 Your argument about, "killing Ellie & her friends wouldn't help her heal and that's why Abby didn't kill Dina or Ellie," would hold up if she hadn't killed Jesse just a few minutes before she decided to let Ellie and Dina go. Not only that, she wouldn't be killing Ellie and Dina for closure this time around, she would be doing it because Ellie and Dina are coming after her and if they're constantly trying to kill her, she can't keep Lev safe. They've already traveled 1,000+ miles to get to her, there's nothing to imply that Ellie wouldn't do that again, which would be a correct assumption because Abby lets Ellie go and that's exactly what happens again: Ellie tracks Abby for another 1,000+ miles. The scene where Abby decides to spare Ellie and Dina feels like a parallel to Joel's scene with Marlene at the end of TLOU1. Both Abby and Joel are in charge of caring for a young child. Both Abby and Joel know that if they let the people who are chasing them live, they'll just keep coming. And both of them make the decision to kill that person. The only difference is that Lev was there to stop Abby. But Abby and Lev have known each other for all of 3 days and, as I mentioned in my original comment, there's nothing in their time together to suggest that Lev would have that effect on Abby. And the only reason Lev has that effect on her in the first place is because the plot demands that Dina and Ellie are alive in the epilogue. Like I said before, I love Abby as a character, but that scene and her "redemption" in general was just poorly done. I, of course, still fell for it because I'm a sucker for the Morally Grey Adult with The Child They "Didn't Want" trope. But I'm not going to pretend like it wasn't poorly written. Anyways: Abby has nightmares after killing Joel, but that doesn't necessarily mean she's remorseful about what happened. She never shows remorse in that regard. And even if she did, that still doesn't account for a large chunk of my argument in my original comment here about how she also doesn't show remorse over gunning down the same people she would have called family just a day before.
@@primroseprom "shows no remorse for it" Whoops, that's not it. Her guilt over Joel is the foundation of everything she does after Jackson. She protects Lev to do good to assuage her own guilt. And now you're saying it's bad she turned against the group who wanted to execute a 13 year old boy? And you really don't understand why Abby, a person who felt the devastating affects of getting revenge, didn't exact her revenge on Ellie and Dina? You do understand that Owen and Mel's relationship was failing, right? Owen said that Mel would be safer with the WLF after deciding he was going to Santa Barbara. He was planning on leaving her.
Dude, thank you so much. I played Last of Us 1 8 years ago and I completely forgot the plot. I've heard great things about Last of Us 2, so I bought it and jumped into the game cold. I was blown away by this game, it was so good. The whole time I was like "what is going on ? Why did the blonde girl kill Joel ? Why did [insert crazy scene] happened ? I was slowly figuring out throughout the game, but the whole time I was saying "Yeah, I definitely need to go to RU-vid to find out why some things happened". You completely explained everything and connected all the dots for me. Even though I just beat the game today, I had so many questions. I didn't even know this game's virus is based off of a real virus bugs can catch. That creeped me out man, lol. Good job and thanks a bunch !
Love this! You have a new subscriber here! Loved the game and did go through that whole "hate Abby" thing but when you step back and play again a second time her story is quite compelling as well! Do you think there will be a 3rd game? I know there has been talk of one! I would love a Tommy DLC or Joel and Tommy in the time between outbreak day and the events of the 1st game!
Yeah definitely, but I'm not sure whether it will be directly centred on Ellie. It seems that she has forgiven Abby (at least a tiny bit) and that chapter of her story is over. Maybe it will focus on Abby and Lev now. Or maybe even little JJ years later? Who knows where Druckmann will take the story
I don't think they'll make a third one, and I know if they don't it'll be because of the hateful dumbasses that tried their hardest to ruin the game and the personal lives of everyone involved. I would be really excited to see a third one, but I doubt Neil Druckmann will want to come anywhere near making a new game. I would be quite traumatized if I made a game and got that kind of awful backlash, especially if the game I made was as incredible as part 2 was.
The tape recording is Nora. The person who confirmed Ellie's suspicious was subsequently infected and tortured by her. Such is life. The video is fantastic, really well put together, but it's the pinnacle theatre (Cassandra is what they are showing circa 2013) and the hunters after Ellie at the TV station are the WLF even though I think that's what you meant. I really don't want anybody to take this the wrong way it's just a reference point. Also, the scars win the war. Hang around at the radio as Abby when you enter the theatre. A soldier from unit echo radio's in, confirms Isaac's death and that no units escaped. I loved the video
Thanks for this in-depth story explanation. The one thing I’m missing is why people didn’t like the feds, what did they do worse than other groups like Fireflies?
Fedra collected people in rural areas to send the to the QZ's but if there wasn't any room, they killed them. Uninfected people. Instead of letting them live and potentially die from infection they just wiped them out. Fedra is also heavy military state militia similar to nazis which is why Bill called them nazis in episode 3
Old comment, but I figured I'd answer. The main reason people hate FEDRA is because (basically) because they are the ones in control, often being corrupt and brutal to keep control over the remaining American cities. Some of this brutality is necessary, with things like aggressively rooting out of infected and strict control of people's movements being needed to prevent another outbreak. For many, who lived in relative luxury and freedom in the pre-outbreak US, this is unacceptable. Most of them have forgotten how bad the disease is in the last couple decades, and want to get back some of the freedoms they had before the outbreak. It isn't helped but the fact that many quarantine zones are even more corrupt and brutal than others, with some falling to rebellion, infection, or famines. Due to this unrest, groups like the Fireflies and Washington Libration Front begin popping up. At first they are driven by their want for change, but over time they realize that things aren't as simple as they once thought. They come to realize that the rules imposed on them might have existed for a reason. They also start losing their fight, as their members are wiped out by FEDRA, which leads them to further desperation. It's not confirmed, but I believe that the Fireflies utter dedication to getting a cure by any means necessary is less about saving humanity, and more about their own self preservation. They are losing, both to FEDRA and also to the fact that their people's morale is dropping. Many Fireflies are abandoning the cause because they don't think they can make any sort of difference. Getting a cure would not only validate everything they've ever done, it would give their people a reason to keep going, and give them leverage over FEDRA. It could even give them enough leverage to topple FEDRA as people join them instead for the promise of a vaccine and the freedom it brings. Add onto this the fact they never tried to work with FEDRA, even once they had a probably viable immune person, and that makes me think that their entire goal was political in nature rather than benevolent.
Alls good like they should be. Story is great, everything happen what needed to happen and i enjoyed this video very much. But why people dislike TLOU 2 so much? Because Joel died? pfff.. i very much looking forward to part 3 if there is one in the future. Thanks Gaming Harry, you earned yourself a new subscriber!
people dont dislike tlou 2 because joel died, this is such an odd narrative that people like to spread, the dislike it because the story is very poor, its as deep as a puddle and acts as if its as wide as an ocean
For a lot of people it's not because Joel died. It's HOW he died. He used to be a killing machine in the first game, not trusting anyone that came across his way. And suddenly in the second game, he's doing the opposite of that, and putting himself right in the middle of a room, getting his ass surrounded. He was almost begging to get killed, which is stupid
@@tiagoviana263 I dont see that from that perspective. Time passed and Joel lived in society with others so long that he started trusting people and didnt assume worst from everyone, and it eventually got him killed.
That would be nice to see Ellie’s father tied into the Catalina islands ending and us getting flashbacks of Ellie’s mother and father and how deep that goes and also some new characters and backstories
Imagine buying batman the game and then batman dies in the first hour of the game due to batman giving his full name, birthdate and everything about him to some total strangers in a locked basement in the middle of no-where and then you gotta continue the game as young robin..... Nope, that is a quick uninstall for me. Else, graphic wise, gameplay wise, mechanics and accessibility wise, the last of us 2 is probably top 3 games of all time so far.
It's an excellent video and since I am on the second playthrough, it helps me wrap up things better and appreciate even more the story! Still, I want to make two clarifications: - Ellie does not know why Abby killed Joel. In their confrontation, she says “He did what he did to save me. There’s no cure because of me, I’m the one you want.” It seems Ellie thinks Abby is mad at Joel for taking away the cure, I don’t think she realizes she killed her father. In all of Ellie’s dialogue with Abby’s friends, it never came up. - The background after beating the game is actually the building with a round tower mentioned by the rattler when Ellie points the shotgun at him, not the future location where Aby and Lev went.
I think that when Ellie left the Gutair seen in the window, she did that in case Dina stopped by to visit the house she would know that she did come home; and wanted to come back to her family.
Even though at the time we hated playing Abby, Looking back it was actually a great decision. This game is so dark and grounded, it really makes you look at the perspective from everyones view point. The setting of this world is a catastrophe and I think they knew we needed to feel the emotions of these raw humans to fully appreciate this story.
This. During my first playthrough I was so angry after Joel died I put the controller down and didn't pick it back up for MONTHS. I was too upset to be able to give the game a fair chance, so I waited. And I'm glad I did, because I genuinely love TLOU2. Yes, it was controversial. I was absolutely pissed about what Abby did, and I was sure I hated her guts and would never forgive her. But as I sat back and thought about it some more, I came to understand why Abby felt that way. Joel took everything from her. Her dad. Her friends. Her lover. Her chance at a good life. Her community. And eventually, her conscience. Joel may have got the ball rolling, but her need for revenge is what kept it going. I think TLOU2 is about forgiveness. Abby couldn't forgive Joel for what he did, and that lead to the deaths of all of her friends. Ellie couldn't forgive Abby for what she did, and that lead to the deaths of her friends, the loss of her girlfriend & her child, and eventually, her last connection to Joel. Her ability to play the guitar Joel gave her. In the end, I had no choice but to forgive Abby. Because if I didn't, the cycle of violence would continue.
@@Lunabyes Well put. I agree completely. I think the story in the game & the show try’s to show us how people react when our past catches up to us and revenge overwhelms us. In the show the fungus came from humanity mistreating the environment. Joel is haunted by his daughters death & the lives of the people he had to kill so towards the end those emotions overwhelmed him & despite having the chance to save the world he wanted to redeem himself & save one of the few things left he cared about. In his mind he was getting his humanity back by saving Ellie. He knew if he lost her & let her die that way then he couldn’t live with himself. Sadly that part of his past came to haunt him in TLOU2. Abby’s past came back once she finally saw Joel. Then again after all the killing, it came back once more when Ellie found her. It’s a sad story about revenge, hard decisions, & living in a infected post apocalyptic world.
You are wromg about the shamblers since we can see some in santa barbara i think its something different if ypu look at them they seem to have alergies and also to be fat
Why would she? She never knew anything about him other than the fact that he brutally killed her mostly-innocent father, who was going to create a cure for humanity, along with many other of their fellow Fireflies, including their leader.
@@TheAgwon79 The cost of the cure was Joel's only daughter figure left. Joel was acting out of love and self defence for the only thing he has left. It's not what's good for everyone that made him a good man, it's his caring for his family. A family he wasn't about to lose.
@@aeureus That's your perspective because you know him. Abby didn't, and what she knew of him wasn't good, so no, she wouldn't know that for eternity. This isn't hard to understand.
@@TheAgwon79 That doesn't stop her learning about WHY he did what he did. Doesn't stop him being a good person; a good person who was taken by her without a second thought or care as to *why.* Plus, she'd probably be curious as to why Ellie was riding her ass over Joel, a reason she almost died to without Ellie's mercy.
Awesome job my man! Lol wasn't an easy story to document; especially because of the way the game told the story! But you did well! Keep up the good work 💫💪
For me there is no moral dilemma. They were going to murder and dissect a child for a medical experiment which may or may not have paid off. No consent was given and when her father, Joel, found out he did what he needed to to saved her. Had no interest in playing the game once the story was leaked. Shame as the graphics look amazing.
I wishing more people saw this story more objectively. Everyone was so upset about the big part that Abby played in the game and how Ellie let her live. Naughty Dog did a great job at showing us every character in these games as HUMANS, not heros, not villains, not good, not evil. Each major character did horrible things, as well as noble and compassionate things, regardless of the reason. I begged Ellie to not drown Abby on that final fight. After I experienced seeing through the eyes of Abby and her experiences, I realized that she was not an evil person, we see her show compassion, we see her show a little remorse for killing Joel after Lev asks her why she came back to save them, she wanted to do some good after the horrible thing did. I felt for Abby just like a felt for Ellie just like i felt for Joel. We had the opportunity to catch a ride and see through the eyes of these characters and their decisions some right, some wrong, depends on who you ask really, AND THATS THE POINT, thats what it means to be a human being. Thats why I think this story was excellent.
A story that I would like to see a explanation on is call of duty ghosts. Specifically the end. Like how the guy survived. I have played that game around when it came out and I to this day do not know how he survived. But CoD: Ghosts was just a bad game in the end anyway.
Even though I already know how the story goes and that I did not need any explaining of the story, I still wanted to watch this video because Gaming Harry is just so awesome at explaining any story. That is how much I like his videos. Keep up the good work Gaming Harry.
First of all, Ellie is not Joel's daughter. Second, yeah doctors don't know if it would work "for now", you need to give them time to study as Ellie is the first case who has immunity. It's just BS to say that it's not worth a try when the entire world is collapsing, people killing each other, people dying and feeling too much pain and sadness from the disease. Third, isn't the very reason that Joel's daughter died is because of the disease? now he got Ellie safely transported to people that might end the disease so it doesn't make any sense why Joel prevents this from happening.
Part of me feels the next game will be Abby hunting the female leader of the Rattlers, she might even pass by Jackson to enlist Ellie, although it might spark tension with Tommy and Dina ( just my theory)
honestly, i used to hate the ending because i wanted abby dead, and now i just want everyone happy because they’re all inflicted with such hate and revenge and the will to survive poking at their brain forcing them to do things they normally wouldn’t do simply to survive. i hope they make a third game and i sincerely hope there are more happy bits like dina and ellie and jj living on their farm, that’s all i want everyone to have is just some peace of mind and some tranquility in the dark world they’ve lived in for decades.
