The Lost Zone Engine Explained Very Quickly and Easily - Pokemon TCG 

like a couple of sets, but yeah, you summed up it perfectly, I'm looking forward to the last few sets of the scarlet violet so maybe we can get anything cool like the old HGSS lost zone cards

It's even weirder that every wave of Lost zone support has done something drastically different with the mechanic each time. Heartgold/Soulsilver had 2 Lost Zone waves, which created 2 decks; one for sending your cards to fuel Lucario and give Mew Prime access to cheap attacks and the more successful counterpart that sent your opponent's cards to obtain the first alternate win condition the game has ever seen. At the very least the other 2 waves are close enough that you could use them both in Expanded, though Jumpluff was always a wee bit too squishy for the deck's own good. It is really crazy that dumping cards into the lost zone has gotten so efficient that you can power a card like Sableye in a single turn

Lost Zone wasn't featured in the Gen 5 era at all.

@@shinyflygon8883 Neither did Gen 6. Gen 5 had the Team Plasma "disaster" stuff and Gen 6 had BREAK as their "other dimension" stuff.

I guess it s too risky to make it evergreen?

I think most people know of the lost zone with the Prism Star cards because when those cards are used up, they go directly into the lost zone.

I agree, I've been a collector of pokemon for over 20 years but have never played the TCG. I was doing research on a competitive deck for playing in my first tournament this weekend.

guess it's his background as a YGO player, as banishing is a lot more common than it (Lost Zone) is in Pokémon

I never noticed that until you pointed it out! :o that’s such a cool design choice

Even though it's about to rotate out at the beginning of 2023, the Inteleon engine (which has shady dealings) would also be worth talking about, too, due to it's prevalence in the format

Many times, you use Comfey and get the Colress's Experiment from Flower Selecting.

No

That's not necessarily true, I'd argue. Colress's Experiment just has the stronger effect by itself, as when you compare it to Comfey, it's obvious that being able to add 3 cards to your hand and 2 to the lost zone off of your top 5 cards gets bigger results on it's own over being only able to look at the top 2 cards and add 1 to your hand and lost zone the other. But you have to remember that you can use Comfey's ability multiple times per turn as long as you can switch them in and out of the active spot, and it should also be mentioned that Colress's Experiment takes up your supporter for the turn if you wanted to play something different instead

Cramorant is nothing special in the main series games, but in the TCG and Unite it’s a menace, which is kinda hilarious.

I feel like the problem with the first idea is that basically all of the video would be “this Pokémon was good in the tcg but was not good in vgc/was good but just outclassed by ___”

@@alecbormia4523 No, the problem is more that certain Pokemon are better or worse depending on the generation you're talking about, as there are definite examples of Pokemon that get stronger due to recieving something such as a new move or ability or potentially even an evolved form that were previously not as good. Otherwise, if you're talking about smogon specifically, the tier also comes into play when considering how good a Pokemon is, as just because a Pokemon is in a low tier such as PU or NU doesn't make them completely bad since they might actually be some of the best choices in their specific tier, since each one has it's own metagame that disallows players to use other Pokemon from a higher tier

@@matthewkuscienko4616 well also smogon mostly just focuses on singles. VGC is a whole different beast where most Pokémon are out classed by a broken legend or amoongus

Vespiquen LOL

and we won't either, as silver tempest is the last expansion in the sword and shield block, and any special mechanic is dropped on new generation block to flash out newest mechanic

@@TheVictor126 Kind of unfortunate because the last 2 times they've tried this haven't been nearly as successful, yet still feel a lot more unique than this version. I'd really like to see someone print a new version of Mew Prime because attack copying is a great way for certain stage 2s to see play where they otherwise wouldn't

Sableye is a great late game attacker though

It became part of the meta at the time that The Pokémon Company released an official sleeve featuring those Mons in the art.

If I remember correctly there was a Raikou card that interacted with the lost zone as early as the GSC era. However I might missremember, it was however form a Raikou structure deck

The lost zone was actually introduced somewhere in gen 4! I don’t remember exactly what set it was, but there were several cards that used it both as a benefit and a way to balance card effect costs.

The Lost Zone itself was added back in Platinum. The Lost Zone _Engine_ specifically refers to these Lost Origins cards though, so I think the video is still factually correct. I don't think it indicated that the Lost Zone was only added with this set, just this particular engine that is popular in the meta currently.

the text on-screen said “reintroduced”. Hiru might have misread from the script there.

It took up your rare slot for a reason! That said, it's a build-around in multiple ways and a terrible offensive and defensive piece on the battlefield so it's not surprising for this type of card to slip people's radar as a supportive competitive staple; I'm sure many competitive players overlooked it as well!

@@Hunted0LessShirt It took up my Reverse-Holo slot, really. I don't usually use my code cards, so I couldn't really use it online, but I could use it in person if I built a deck.

@@Hunted0LessShirt I can guarantee you no competitive player overlooked comfey

read the card

You're correct, each player's lost zone is separate, just like their discard piles, cards like this Cramorant and Mirage Gate only count YOUR cards put into the lost zone. It is possible that there are cards that account for both but if so, the ones currently in standard only count your own cards, luckily. That said, there is a difference between saying, "If you have X cards in the lost zone" and "If you have sent X cards to the lost zone". For example, in a Sableye deck mirror, using Lost Vacuum on your own stadium/tool is +2 in the race towards 10 but hitting your opponent's card accelerates you just as much as them; even though you were the one to put two cards in the lost zone, one of them was theirs and it wouldn't make sense to mix your cards with your opponent's so they go to their own pile.

@@Hunted0LessShirt Thanks much for the reply, that makes perfect sense now!

Expanded goes from Black and White to Current sets while primes + lost world are from HGSS which came before B&W so unfortunately you cannot.

@@rhinolake Whoops yeah, used the wrong term there for what I was thinking. Edited.

@@rhinolake Technically there is also the legacy format in which you could do all that wild s*** and so much more but big emphasis on "technically"; haven't looked into it but with how small even the expanded community is, legacy must be incredibly tiny as a fanbase. Luckily, the standard metagame is generally average at worst so most active players don't have a huge desire to explore/abuse the gigantic cardpool of an eternal format.

Kyurem vmax is actually a very good deck right now. Check decklists on Limitless tcg, it's a pretty good database for pokemon

Palkia VSTAR is the best way to play it right now, coming from a Kyurem main

Oranguru + Palkia Vstar along with some specific trainer cards like rotom phone can work quite well.

Viable? Nothing really gonna be shaking up meta, But you could use Durant Mill. Durant from Battle Styles has the attack Devour, which mills a card from your opponent's deck for each of your Durant in play. Pair this with cursed Shovel, which makes your opponent Mill 2 when knocked out, and you can chew through the deck pretty fast. Then you do some stalling strategies like using the Supporter Boss's Orders to bring a useless Pokemon into the active and trapping it with Galar Mine, a Stadium (Field Spell) makes all Pokemon's retreat costs 2 more, and you can do this turn after turn while milling your opponent's deck. Toxtricity from Darkness Ablaze is a more gimmicky mill deck. It's Risk Taker attack mills 5 cards from your opponent's deck on a coin flip of heads, and 5 from your own deck on a tails. You can use Glimwood Tangle, a Stadium that lets you reflip coins you flipped for an attack once.

For my mill, I prefer the Durant from Lost Thunder with Mountain Munch - slower mill, but more reliable than needing all of your Durants. Then Spiritomb from Ultra Prism to stop basic Pkmn from attacking and recover Supporter cards. Sandygast/Palossand from Rebel Clash + Cursed Shovel, then a bunch of disruption/discard supporters like TR's Handiwork, Mars, Roxanne, Marnie, TSkull Grunt, (can also run N). Then I have Trevenant/BREAKTrevenant from BREAKpoint, Sigilyph GX, and Marshadow (Cosmic Eclipse) for damage output if the mill isn't working. I admit I have a Shining Mew to get energy to my cards which helps with consistency. Then Double Colorless Energy x4. Used to run Delinquent until it was banned. Mill in Pokemon TCG is a lot less consistent than in MTG, but it's fun when it works. Edit: Also helps when your opponent keeps drawing cards and helping you out

forget durant mill, its not as fun as deleting half the opponent's deck with centiscorch mill

@@OswaldOrtensia4ever centiscrorch/ inferno fandango emboar/ mill moltres

I mean, pokemon tcg has a history of losing the lost zone mechanics, then it coming back for a couple sets a few years later, so not that far from it

It's a bit different, has fewer cards that work around it.

If you have ever played Magic: The Gathering, the lost zone is like the exile pile, it is basically another discard pile but any cards that go in it can never be used again, yet.

It was first introduced in the Platinum series of sets, then followed up in Heart Gold and Soul Silver, where there was never a lost zone card printed again until Ultra Prism introduced Prism Stars, which carried on through Team Up, and Lost Thunder introduced a couple archetypes before that, and now we have Lost Origin

@@novaninja729 makes sense

Yup

Yup

If Path to the Peak is a floodgate, then yea

The answer is yes and no, there are some very powerful floodgates but in the current game they typically get put on Pokemon that are hard to get into play or are attached to subpar attackers. The current best floodgate would be Path to the Peak, a stadium card that shuts off all abilities of Pokemon with a Rulebox. Typically "rulebook mons" are your best attackers and support Pokemon so many meta decks rely on those abilities and this stadium can throw a wrench into things. The biggest reason Path is so strong is cause it functions like essentially a YGO field spell to permanently debuff the whole field until your opponent can bump it with their own stadium, very niche attacks or item cards. It's not contingent or a whole lot other then can you get it into your hand, which is usually exceedingly easy. Many other floodgates in Pokemon are not this lucky or powerful. You have cards that stop your enemy from retreating or increasing their retreat cost so you can try to trap undesirable mons active. Problem is there are just so many ways to switch in the game like you saw in this video. You have item lock effects, attack locks, supporter locks, basically anything you can think of but they are almost always relegated to niche or rouge decks. Either the effect is too hard to get into play or the cost is too high to be consistent. I wish it wasn't this way but yeah Pokemon for a long time has been a game of can I beat down my opponent faster and more consistently then they can me. Sorry for the essay, I just thought it was a good question and I know a good bit about the game. :)

There was, hence it saying “reintroduced”

@@lilykoizumi I’m too stupid so I didn’t hear reintroduced; sorry for any inconvenience

...? Can you explain your comment? I just looked up Gengar Prime, and there is nothing that talks about an alternate win condition. In fact, its only notable feature appears to be the attack that sends your opponent's Pokemon in hand to the Lost Zone, which is pretty cool, especially since Mew Prime can use attacks of Pokemon in the Lost Zone... except Mew needs the required energy to do so, which may make it not possible to use your opponent's attacks. Gengar Prime can only do 40 damage if you opt to not use its first attack, which isn't that impressive even in the old game. I mean, maybe you could knock out a damaged Pokemon or a super weak basic, but that requires a fat set up. Also, the Lost Zone was around a bit before HGSS. It was introduced during Platinum era. I'm not exactly well-versed in the old game, but I know that because I had a Platinum Giratina structure deck as a child. That deck used the Lost Zone.

@@speedroidterrortop5391 believe the deck was dubbed LostGar. It was a combination of Gengar prime's poke-body to semi-reliable get mon via ko and attack that sends mon from opposing hand in their lost zone and the stadium card: Lost World (look this one up, win condition was on here). Among other cards like seeker and Mr mime Jr. Played the deck myself while testing for a regionals during hgss' format. It's wasn't top tier, being that it was a bit inconsistent but it was still a great deck that everyone had to keep an eye on at the time ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jE7PLLfCT5U.html Yeah, it probably existed beforehand. Didn't play dp format myself. Just noting that the lost zone mechanic has been around for a long while.

@@rjbourgeois5490 Wow, thank you. I have no idea why Lost World didn't come up on Google Images when I was looking up cards. Seems like a cool deck.

Fairy type was discontinued starting with Sword & Shield

Even I think removing fairy from the cards is stupid.

That's why the spider specified that it was *re*introduced

@@gingermcgingin4106 He could work on the enunciation of the term, because you can't hear the "re" when he says it, and the video itself isn't exactly something someone is going to pay attention to.

It's quite simple, actually: the tcg reduces the number of available types players can choose from for the sake of simplicity. There have always been at least 15 types in the video games to keep track of since day one, and that number has expanded to 18 as of gen6. I think the main reason this was done is because outside of the dragon type (which need 2 energies of different types) and the colorless type (which can use any type of energy), all other types have their own basic energy assigned to them, such as fighting Pokemon needing fighting energy or water Pokemon needing water energy, so having 18 total types that each require their own specific energy to play would get pretty out of hand when it comes to deck building. And this is without even going into each type being weak to something of a different type, and you can start to see why they want to keep things more simple

@@matthewkuscienko4616 I’m not saying I don’t understand it but as someone who is mostly a Pokémon video game fan the typings being grouped together just feels weird lol

there’s cards that can stop your opponent from using trainers / abilities to put cards into the lost zone, so it does in fact have counter play

@@griffin7206 If the counter is not in a competitively viable deck it is not in fact counterable.