I mean yeah effectively people think that cows are just standing there, eating grass and giving milk. Meanwhile wolves are seen as man-eating monsters, even though in reality they probably just observe and run away or don't care about humans. I see the problem with that though, cause lets be serious: No one would play a cow, a wolf is cooler and more interesting and much more fun. Or playing a lion over an antelope.
My parents got chased by a cow once when I was a baby HAHA Cows r no joke tbh. All large herbivores are quite dangerous since they’ve evolved to defend themselves, since they’re larger and stuff. I wish they get more respect, cause people usually fuck around and find out unfortunately (cuz they don’t really expect large herbivores to attack them fsr..???)
You mentioned hadrosaurs' beaks not being sharp in the traditional sense, but a lot of herbivores today can still do some serious damage by biting. Imagine Maia being able to bite and drag Utahs in the same way that zebras can bite and drag people.
Not to mention some recent reconstructions show the outer keratin layer of the beak may have in fact, been sharp. A Hadrosaur bite could probably take a serious divot out of an attacking predator just like horse bites today, maybe even snip off a T.Rex's arm.
When i remember correctly, they do not have front teeth? Just the beak to rip off grass? Then if the grass in the past was just as hard to rip as today (especially dried up grass) their Beaks propably where as sharp as teeth, because the front teeth are often designed to grab, hold on to or slice the grass. I know a horse that lost his front teeth to an illness and ripps the grass with his lips, but even with the rough lips he only gets the long, soft grass. Just imagine getting grabbed and squeezed and even cut into by massive beaks that are designed to rip off grass all day. They propably really had a very nasty bite, even when not dragging something. And if they have a similiar design to bird or parrot beaks (sharp and hard), could be even worth. Maybe they couldn't do much to the scaled body, but to weak spots definitely. In the end their biggest success, beside some of them growing huuuge, was propably the size of their herds. Just like zebras, wildebeest, gazelles etc. if one gets snacked, it doesn't matter much when you have such a huge herd. Even raising the children is much easier when you got the cover of your herd and a high fertility rate.
@nerihyuga Grass didn't exist where most hadrosaurs lived, but your point still stands, especially given that they likely also ate rotten wood on occasion.
There's a ridiculous carnivore bias in paleo-media overall, but hadrosaurs definitely get the worst of it. The most offensive example I can think of is in the first Jurassic World Evolution where a Velociraptor could single-handedly take down an Edmontosaurus with basically zero effort. I don't play The Isle myself but I'm glad the devs are taking care to not play into the established stereotype of hadrosaurs being completely and utterly helpless against carnivores.
Hadrosaurs would literally be so fucking busted irl, it’s insane how edmontosaurus specifically gets downplayed so much while being bigger and heavier than T.Rex lol
I think the anti-hadrosaur bias idea is kinda outdated now, I mean post 2020 most hadrosaurs in games are proper powerhouses: BoB Para has one of, if not the highest burst damage in the game, at least out of herbivores, PoT’s herbivores can have insane damage output whilst being great damage soaks, and in Jurassic Workd Evo 2, hadrosaurs can actually fight back against small things and although they’re weaker than they should be, it’s JP so we’ll take what we can get
@@ahumanoidtroodon1074the thing with jp is that they basically never could brand the herbivores as powerhouses or else it'll make the "big bad carnivores look weak" Which is basically what they've been earning off of And BoB in general is quite questionable in terms of balance but yeah the para is great PoT hadrosaurs are busted as they should be. And isle........ 𝙔𝙚𝙖𝙝 All the more reason to erase dondi from the community
Jurassic World Evolution was offensive in so many different ways ... Especially towards it's player's intelligence. It's baffling how bad this game was T-T
I don’t think The clip of prehistoric planet with the Edmonds being hunted was the best clip being shown. First there were 2 Rexes and which ambushed it and I feel it was pretty realistic.
It's worth mentioning though that Prehistoric Planet does still fall victim to this trend The dromaeosaur hunt in Ice Worlds has 3 jackal sized dromaeosaurs somehow terrifying a massive herd of elephant-sized hadrosaurs I personally think that scene could've worked better if there were more than just 3 dromaeosaurs, maybe a disorganised gathering of about 10 individuals, that way, it could've been more believable that the hadrosaurs would treat them as a threat to their young
@@OlivierMunir Yeah ik the t rex hunt is easily one of the best and most realistic scenes in there, I think the dromaeosaur hunt should've been showed *instead* of the t rex ambush
@@thephilosoraptor8565well I’d say it’s (Somewhat) realistic as the younger members started to panic, which could have startled one of the adults and made the herd panic.
It’s honestly sad though how so many games, movies, etc. just absolutely disrespect herbivores and ESPECIALLY hadrosaurs, edmonto and para are some of the largest most powerful creatures ever to walk the earth and in games like JWE or Ark (ark trike is freaking insanely underpowered) or even JP itself they are so useless in combat, now of course predators could still hunt them but the way we just pretend they were just lumps of food for predators is ridiculous…
You didn't mention how Ark Para is undersized and portrayed as early game fodder. Also, Ark Trike is actually somewhat oversized, it's just that all and every Carnivores have been oversized to no end (except Dilo)
@haumea2097 the para point is very true, and for the trike it may be oversized but it’s still incredibly weak compared to things like raptors let alone apex’s like rex
I mean to be honest I always knew that the devs in the isle would make a dino like Maia fight back and be pretty powerful unlike many other games and movies typically would do It's not hard to look at Maia from legacy and remember what a unit that thing was
Herbivores can be worse than carnivores. As a mainly Omni-raptor player, i currently fear the Pachy the most. They are often the most aggressive players, and it only takes one good hit to break a leg and make the Omni almost defenseless. Carnivores mostly kill for food. Pachy's just kill for sport. They are relentless. It's the only dinosaur that i kill when they are small even if i don't need the food. They are a menace once they are grown.
hard agree. it's much much easier to convince a carnivore you're not worth the effort, and far more difficult to convince an herbivore that you're not looking to eat them. pachy is in its own class, though. they KOS everything under the sun, including *other pachys*
Hadrosaurs have zebra and hippos syndrome, they don't look dangerous at first sign but at closer inspection you realised that they are far from defensless.
Hadrosaurs probably function similarly to deer and horses do today, running when they can, and fighting when they have to. With the biggest being quite capable of fending for itself against the bigger threats.
This is ridiculous, large hadrosaurs like parasaurolophus would be atleast as capable as therizinosaurus in combat if not more. Modern ungulates continuously outmach all other in terms of the impacts force of their strikes. Just because they use the same overdeveloped muscles that are needed for running, to kick with. Many ungulates hit hard enough to kill animals their own size in a single blow if they hit the head or neck, but even a kick against the flank or abdomen usually causes horrific internal injury that can easily cause the animal to bleed out internally. Heck even a camel that doesnt have have hard hooves can kick hard enough to easily rupture internal organs. And in Hadrosaurs part of the tail musculature connected to the femur giving them significantly stronger hindlegs than a mammal of simular size. So in the isle hadrosaur kicks should do decent damage but inflict fracture or some kind of internal injury mechanic, that forces the predator to abandon the chase if it carelessly took to many hits. This would allow hadrosaurs to severely punish careless attacks and make carnivores unable to head on charge and murder a hadrosaur without any resistance like they did in legacy.
1:39 I don't think Prehistoric Planet was a good example of Hadrosaurs being shown as weak, because here, the T.Rex pair is going against one Edmontosaurus, they also have the advantage of an ambush at night. That's why I think it's the opposite, they are implying that it's too risky to attack a herd of Edmontosaurus in broad daylight even for the largest land carnivore known.
Not at all. There is only a handful of herbivores even alive today that actively protect each other. Herding is an innately selfish behavior, playing a numbers game. Very few animals will risk injury or death to protect another, ESPECIALLY one they're not related to. Hunting at night gave Tyrannosaurus the advantage of surprise in Prehistoric Planet. They had superior night vision and could close in while the hadrosaurs were blind to where the predators were until the attack was launched. Most terrestrial carnivores don't hunt in broad daylight for that exact reason.
Just gonna leave this here, If a edmontosaurus could do the tango with a tyrannosaurus, Mind you by a landslide the largest and most powerful land predator to ever exist, You know hadrosaurs are still mighty mighty animals
@@GEK0dev still counts as a terrestrial predator.... it hunts purely terrestrial prey, is able to traverse land, and doesn't live exclusively underwater, it checks all the boxes it can just swim too. Thus D. riograndiensis is larger and more powerful than T. rex (not to diss on Biggie T tho, by far the strongest carnivorous dinosaur)
glad that path of titans doesnt seem to be going this route with it's hadrosaurs, despite oth catching a nerf recemtly. Barsboldia is one of the strongest playables in the game and lambeo is very good at it's role. lamb's been excellent for a long time and is still very viable excited to see para and maia in TI :)
I would NOT get my hopes up if i were you. Remember, Kissen also said “why would para ever try to fight a predator as big as allosaurus?”, she is talking out of her ass. It will honestly be a huge surprise if hadrosaurs aren’t trash in Evrima, if they don’t even want a para to be able to stand up to a predator smaller than it
I've never played the Isle - just find it a fascinating game. I do wonder if the developers ever considered emphasizing the herding behavior of these big herbivores as a potential defense boost. Like a bonus to defense and damage when within X amount of distance to more of their kinds.
The state of para in legacy gives me crippling depression. Any dino smaller than yourself is a serious threat, and all they have to do is avoid being brake checked. Such bull. Please, game, I just wanna headbutt the carnos and ceras one time before I die Y-Y
This is punishment to all hadrosaur players (particularly Shant) in the early days when they could run down their predators and bonebreak with their headbutt.
Hadrosaurs are exactly that pure mass, and that's terrifying, look at cows, Horse, Bison, they are pure mass and muscle. Just being pure mass is enough to survive sometimes
I mean in the animal kingdom today most carnivores have a pretty mid successful hunting rate. Most sit at around 50-60% success rates, the literal best hunter on our planet today is the Dragonfly clocking in at around 90% success hunting rates. Predators have ALOT of work to do to stay alive and there's alot of days where they have to go hungry or get injured/die from the attempt. Donkeys killing Mountain Lions is a good example of how large prey items easily kill large carnivores. Hippos vs Crocs is another one. The truth is that herbivores get LARGE and size and weight mean EVERYTHING to the animal kingdom.
Yeah. They are some of if not the most underrated Clade of Dinosaurs ever lol. Edmontosaurus and Shantungosaurus both surpassed T Rex in size I believe, especially Shant. And would obliterate any Modern land mammal excluding Humans and would destroy most of carnivorous Dinosaurs. Hadrosaurs like Shant where like Small sauropod size and would crush a Rex most of the time if it wasn’t careful. It’s truly sad how Hadrosaurs are so mistreated.
Hadrosaurs could literally use their entire body as a weapon, "They could kick, bite, stomp to death, use their tails as weapons, lunge and fall on their attacker."
Heyyy its nice to see that the devs, SPECIALLY kitten are in favor of maiasaura, they sure love them hadrosaurs! What?, that kitten said like a year ago that a single allosaur could take on a parasaurolophus? Oh...
Tbh tho in the big 3 dinosaur games. Even though in the movie carnivores are portrayed as blood thirsty killing machines and the herbivores are helpless. It’s the direct opposite in games, for example in PoT ye the herbivores are OP asf killers.
I hope that over the years, hadrosaur dinosaurus in the paleo-media won't be so defenseless. You showed JWE 2 footage, and I'm glad in that game the hadrosaurs don't die to a single small carnivore like in the previous game (even though they still get one shot by medium to large carnivores), that was just unfair and so dumb. And I'm very happy that, unlike the previous game, my beloved Iguanodon can fight against every carnivore, although it is very likely it will die easily to large carnivores thanks to carnivores having higher stats that herbivores.
i mean, in legacy hadros are pretty strong in pvp, shant is litterally one of the strongest apexes, maia is fast and can run down anything, and para used to absolutelly demolish allos and other carnis, unfortunatelly its hitbox has been glitched for some time now
Well ... Maias ans mainly shants, were absolute units. Will be so cool and fun use them, in case our devs do it good. The problem, is what they plan to Para. Come on, we know no even a Para on crack win against a rex. But they can't be serious when they plan a solo allo overpower a Para, as kissen mentioned. Legacy Para, used good, could clap ceratos and allos. And now Para would be stronger than ever, so why limit it to be just noisy sack of meat?
Buffalo on North American plains does not have really any weapon aside their mass and herd. Their horns are short and more for visual than for laceration. This does not mean they cannot damage their foes with horns, but more that their main weapon is mass and numbers. On The Isle, i do not mind that Hadrosaurs are heavier and more powerful than equally growth carnivore, but i do hope that power comes with cost of speed to prevent large group of just hunting carnivores for fun. I do heavily hope they get released after they implement Life Circle, so all playables, aside Mercenary Humans, die to old age at some point. For adult Hadro will be one of hardest creatures to kill, but when they do die, even to old age, they provide huge volume of food and nutrients for their killer and scavengers.
I find it funny how people dont connect hadros with the absolute power of animals like horses, zebras and hippos. None of these animals have obvious defenses, but the force of their attacks is so great it can easily break bones, kill etc. Blunt force trauma. Also, beaks hurt! Get bit by a geese and you can see that
The anti-hadrosaur stance was made clear with the introduction of the parasaurolophus. It was a highly anticipated dinosaur, we got a screenshot of it in the swamp on old Thenyaw, then the very next screenshot of the para is it being eaten by Dondi's OC, the hyperendocrine rex. So yeah
A healthy adult hadrosaur would not have been an easy meal by any means, even for large therapods. People fantasize about the idea of the voracious carnivore which wipes the floor with any herbi it wants to eat, but people forget that in reality larger carnivores mostly prey on the weak, targeting animals that are injured, sick, young, or old. A full grown hadrosaur like para would have been an absolute tank that easily mows down anything dumb enough to stand in its way. I really hope they bring features into the game that will allow hadrosaurs to throw their weight around, crushing and bludgeoning predators that are too bold/stupid in their approach.
Basically There's a reason why even most humans don't fuck with Cape Buffalo (spoilers, it isn't because of the horns) For context, Cape Buffalo are massive, vindictive (as so far as human characteristics can be assigned to animals) and intelligent, they're nicknamed black death for a reason Now imagine that but a couple sizes of magnitude larger
I notice hadrosaurs go two ways in media. They either are absolute powerhouses, strong enough to kill any large predator with ease, or they are insanely weak and die to anything. In my opinion, it is important to remember these were animals that were hunted by said creatures in real life, and defended themselves from them. The fight can go either way, if a hadrosaur dies to a rex, that doesn’t mean the hadrosaur was weak. If a rex dies from a hadrosaur, that doesn’t mean the rex is weak.
I hate the carnivore bias and Hadrosaurus being bullied. More people need to watch this video and others that you make! And documentaries, prehistoric or not need to stop portraying carnivores as skilled killing machines, lions have like a 20% success rate in hunting? I love para! They are gorgeous.
But the isle handles this well so far? Tenonto is very strong if you are patient and able to hit your attacks and can easily beat a cerato or carno if the players had similair skill and seeing how they mention in the devblog that they will make their attacks strong and fitting I don't rly see the problem. Seems like this is more of a video on general paleo media than the isle lmao so why put the isle in the title? Since legacy also had powerful hadros and I dont think they will change that in evrima
the ultimate strength of these dinos isn't just their weight; it's their numbers. People may see them as dino-cows, but cows are dangerous in their own right. If The isle are going to be serious about making weight matter, trample damage needs to become a serious thing; stampeding hadrosaurs should be able to knock over any therapod and trample it to death.
think of giraffes or even moose(females) although they don't have any claws, horns, and stuff like that but still manage intimidate animals at the top of the food chain in that area
In metric tonnes: Maiasaura's somewhere around 3 tonnes Parasaurolophus walkeri is aroud 4 tonnes, 7 tonnes with P. Tubicen and 11 tonnes with P. Cyrtocristatus (thats as big as the 3rd biggest T. rex specimen btw) Shantungosaurus breaks scales at 15 to 18 tonnes, which is outright bigger than *Diplodocus* (the smallest species of diplo, but still fucking diplo) With that being said Shantungosaurus should be able to stomp the gut out of every member of the carnivore roster but T. rex (by proxy of it being T. rex) Parasaurolophus should be able to brawl with Acrocanthosaurus and Suchomimus depending on the species used, but im fairly certain The Isle uses P. Walkeri so it'd be having a close fight (still para favored) with the 5 tonne spinosaur but would have to retreat from acro (it shits on allo tho) And Maiasaura would be able to beat the living shit out of everything smaller than Allosaurus currently in the roster So i'd say the hadrosaurs shpuld be just fine if theyre at their accurate weights
@@SpindominusRex nah shant is 15-16 tonnes, and P. walkeri's safest max is 4.5 tonnes (derpystego) with a highest max of 7 and a half tonns (Fadeno). P. tubicen is 8.5 tonnes (also Fadeno iirc) and cyrtocristatus is 13.
Some offtopic question: Does anyone know why the devs are about to finalise trike and rex in the next weeks/months, while at the same time they will only be allowed on non-offical servers? Isnt that a strange kind of priority setting in regard to new creatures brought into the game? What are they "afraid" of to roll them out in official servers, when they took so much time to work on them in the past and present time?
The official servers are the Dev's version of the game that new players should interact with first. Balance is based on logic, the current roster has nothing to take on apexes besides the other two apexes. The only thing that could take them down rn would be an Omni pack. Dilo and Troodon have the possibility of their venom being unable to be applied to an apex for solely game balance but don't take that as fact unless it's stated clearly again.
@@AnAntarcticScotsman ok, thats an argument. May be they fear apex megapacks getting out of control as their servers are not watched by an admin instead of unofficials, where quite a lot have admins.
@@Dinoman9877 pretty sure you just have a hard time with pteras which is... understandable... but paras in bob are actually insane. they can run down wiehens. if you get the jump boost you can effectively fight megaraptor. if you were resting as a rex you are screwed. hell if the para gets behind you youll probably also be screwed. same with acro. the only things you really shouldnt be fighting as para are aquatics, sai, apa, maybe coah. but coahs turn radius is so trashy you could probably beat it up
The fact most hadrosaurs didn't have any sort of elaborate defense mechanisms, is a testament to how powerful they were. They didn't need them. Not only that, but I imagine they had tremendous bite strength, and with that, a beak doesn't even need to be extremely sharp to crunch and tear bone and flesh.
They didn't need them because they went all in on running from threats. No heavy horns or spikes to weigh them down, they could be speedy for an animal their size. If caught they could still be a real threat, but most herbivores are in real trouble once in the clutches of a predator and hadrosaurs would be no different. Best strategy is to not be caught to begin with.
Totally agreed! The only time I saw a hadrosaur defending against a theropod was in phil tippet documentary with reeves narrating depicting a mother hadrosaur kicking a tyrannosaur using her tail. Im wondering how corytho would be played to be different to para. Para main weapons are acoustic attacks.
I believe how hydrosaurs survived was that they were just “big”. Any carnivore that came to one didn’t know they had a special trait or not. They were scared and hesitant because just their size and how they could get outmatched in a fight between the two.
That's why i love how Beast of Bermuda and Path of Titans treat the hadrosaurs. With BoB, with a good skill tree, large enough size and handled by a skilled player, a Parasaurolophus can even go head to head with apexes like Acrocanthosaurus or T.rex. In Path of Titans, their 2 hadrosaurs the Lambeosaurus and Barsboldia are no push over either, Lambeosaurus at first glance look like a walking lunch box, but if get into a good hand, they will be a pain in the ass to deal with, meanwhile Barsboldia is straight up a Dark Soul boss, even if they are played by an inexperience player, it still take a lot of effort to bring them down, and if you fight an experienced Barsboldia unless you are heavily outnumbered them, if not then you are basically having a Dark Soul fight but in dinosaurs.
I never really liked the way herbivores felt until i switched from legacy Isle over to path of titans. Hadrosaurs are a lot more versatile and fun in that game, especially when you compare it to gimmicky things like shant's "land a stomp or die" playstyle
I have been getting in to PoT as well, while they still do have some mistreated herbivores (Amarga mainly) it doesn’t feel like it is made weak because its faction, some dinosaurs just happen to get the bad end of the deal in these games. The Isle lets their biases slip in to their game too much and that negatively impacts balance
tbh you’re better off just not interacting with this game anymore, I was very glad to see you decided to play a game that doesn’t suck ass (Monster Hunter), and discuss things about it
Don't worry, there will be content for both, if you're not interested in the isle that's okay I understand, monster hunter content drops every wednesday, hope to see you there 🙂
I hope at least the isle does them right, it was heartbreaking to hear in BoB that paras were literally food trucks and they couldn't survive anything 😭 heres to hoping theyre better here, hoping they might bring shant back also in this case
