Hi guys, so as a few of you know I had to reupload this from Friday after there was a slight syncing issue. Those of you that are here again A) thank you for a second click! I know you may have already seen it but I would really appreciate a full second watch, as I'm expecting this to be a little hobbled in the algorithm now. This video could use all the help it can get! B) enjoy the new added section on Harry Osborn and the Phantom Goblin! :)
You’re welcome! I intended to watch it on Friday, but when it was taken down, I thought I was crazy because from my perspective, it was just erased from existence.
The decision to make Norman Osborne the guy who ruined two separate Spider-Men's lives was genuis. The decision ot make it the DaFoe Goblin? Utterly genius
Well yeah. For my money, I wholeheartedly approve that they didn't even try to find a MCU Green Goblin when - between the multiverse opening up, the nostalgia wave hitting its peak, and Willem being available - the perfect template was right there.
green goblin was always just the secret lovechild of the joker and lex luthor. kinda like how spider-man is just a young superman who swings around with gadgets like batman 😂
Okay… that King Goblin idea for Secret Wars is absolutely perfect, and I also like the idea of TASM Harry being his henchman/surrogate son. This needs to happen.
@@FullFatVideos Oh it’s perfect. The Goblin as the ultimate force of evil and chaos in the multiverse…sign me up, especially if Raimi is directing Secret Wars like the rumors are saying
So many kudos to Dafoe for NOT phoning in this performance. I may have been beyond done with the MCU at that point but his reprisal of the role was one of that movie's strongest points.
1. Even though Venom is Peter's most popular foil/rival , a lot of people forget that the Green Goblin was and always will be Peter's greatest *enemy* . He is his opposite in every way, someone who respects but also hates what Spiderman represents, something he could never be, because he no longer wants to. 2. One of my favorite scenes in No Way Home was when Tom Holland's Peter's spider sense started going off in the apartment, revealing that he had sensed the Goblin take over Norman. Mind you, Tom Holland's Peter had only a brief interaction with the Goblin and both Sandman and Electro , who are more powerfull, were in the same room. And yet, his spider sense registered the Goblin as such a *massive threat* that it all but forced him to acknowledge him. 3. William Dafoe was and still is absolute perfect casting. He and Alfred Molina jumped right back into their roles like they never even left.
Nah GG is definitely more popular and beloved. People know venom, but they don't think he's peter's greatest foil or enemy. However, on that note, I definitely think that there's more of an argument for Doc Ock being peter's greatest enemy considering he... yknow... killed him.
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868I guess but I’ve always considered the Goblin to be his arch enemy because of what he has done to Peter, I mean killing Gwen Stacy,being the first villain to figure out his identity, what he’s done to MJ and Aunt May, Otto isn’t a saint but any means but Doctor Octopus is methodical not needlessly cruel, the Goblin on the other hand is, he wants to break Spider-Man and corrupt him!
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 Stan Lee himself said that Doc Ock is Spider-Man's greatest enemy, but the Green Goblin is Peter Parker's greatest enemy. If you think about it, that's precisely the case. Otto never cared about Peter personally, he just wanted his idea of Doc Ock to triumph over the idea of Spider-Man. Osborn is the opposite, he does not really care what Spider-Man represents, he just wants to ruin the person who stood up to him. Otto challenged Spider-Man to the brink of his external capacity and Norman challenged Peter's morality to its limit.
@@tentonmotto6779Well also that and Doc Ock has limits, he’s not needlessly evil whilst The Green Goblin is and has done far more damage to Spider-Man than Ock will ever do, Goblin was the first villain to figure out who Spider-Man was, has threatened people just to hurt Peter, tortured Peter emotionally and physically and that’s not even mentioning the people close to Peter who the Goblin killed all because it hurts him! The Green Goblin is to Spider-Man what the Joker is to Batman!
William defoe is most definitely one of the best actors to play a villain ever. I can't think of many performances that compare or are outright better.
Thanos is the hero of his story. He feels he is in the right in what he is doing. Green Goblin has no right; he has no inner sense of morality that he is opining to. He only loves power. Masterful video!
I personally would love to see the Hobgoblin introduced into the MCU. Although people don't fully remember what happened during the events of No Way Home, there are still news recordings and footage of certain events. Perhaps someone gets inspired by the Green Goblin, and starts to emulate what they've seen. It's not a perfect replication, but it's enough. And of course, we never actually find out who it is under the mask.
NGL I was thinking the same thing, My idea is that Spider-Man starts interfering in the affairs of a crime boss named Roderick Kingsley, Kingsley having already collected Osborn’s tech and watching the final battle of NWH(maybe from a camera from Peter’s suit!),decides to become the Hobgoblin, using the Green Goblin’s tech and iconography as a fear tactic just as much as a tool,however Kingsley isn’t insane, he’s just calculated,sadistic and ruthless, maybe he even goes a step further and collects the villains Peter has fought in the MCU(besides Vulture) and forms the Sinister Six
I like the idea of a “Goblin Cult” similar to the gang inspired by Jerome in Gotham after his initial appearance. Not one Goblin, but several all committing acts of terror and violence all because they can.
My thought was Goblin destroyed an unnamed military facility in the MCU after he got teleported there (likely looking for Oscorp) and in concept art it's revealed through Normans hoodie it was a HAMMER facility. I think it would be cool to have Armor Wars start with the Goblin attack as the catalyst for the show, starting the arms race to create the Thunderbolts as the sort of Dark Avengers once they see how horribly they were outmatched. Just have a scene or two of Goblin blowing up some hangars, maybe raiding a lab or two. I think it would start off the show really well.
@@AxisChurchDevotee True, but I think that was retconned at some point to actually be another character. Also, it was kinda stupid and nobody really liked it. (That I know of)
EY WE BACK. I love the way No Way Home makes Dafoe’s Goblin just as effective a nemesis for Tom’s Peter as he was for Tobey’s, and expands on his Might Makes Right, “morality is for losers” philosophy which I thought went underserved in the first Raimi film.
It would also be cool to see the Goblin as Norman Osborn follow the Dark Reign story where he forms the Dark Avengers to help push heroes to embody their worst selves in order to do good.
I prefer Goblin alot more then Thanos. My biggest problem with Endgame is they kill the Thanos that did all the things on Infinity War that hurt the characters. The new Thanos doesnt have a real connection to the characters.
"You took everything from me." "I don't even know who you are." This exchange encapsulates it perfectly. This Thanos, Gamora, Nebula, and the other four lacked the fairly rich history with the Avengers and Guardians that the original ones did and it honestly feels kinda flat. Like, the characters aren't just cardboard cutouts to be interchanged at will.
*SPOILER for No Way Home* The Goblin v Spider-Man fight in the hotel in No Way Home is one of the best fight/action scenes in the MCU. The tension began building before the fighting even started because Peter sensed a malevolent presence in the room but took a minute to realize it was the Goblin. Then it quickly got out of hand with Aunt May right there so she's in danger raising the stakes, and we saw Holland's Spidey fight Goblin with a desperate ferocity that we'd never seen from him before, yet *still* he was decisively beaten. The fight choreography, fx, and stunt-work were all strong here, you felt the impacts of their punches (which is more than can be said for a lot of superhero fights) especially when Spidey jumps onto Goblin starts rapidly punching him in the face over and over, and when Goblin laughs maniacally in response Spidey freezes for a moment in fear of just realizing how much stronger his foe is. And Aunt May was killed in the end which tops it all off with an emotional gut punch.
I agree. It was more than just a fight of power levels and all that stuff. It was a philosophical fight, where the stakes were not physical, but purely emotional and spiritual.
The way you breakdown goblins philosophy is absolutely brilliant! His split was way ahead of his time, a man blessed with brilliance, and cursed with power
I wouldn’t mind seeing Dafoe again as Goblin, but not specifically in the MCU I think. He was the best thing about No Way Home. He never phones it in and while I think in some ways bringing him back makes it even harder to ever have someone else in the role, I can’t blame them for bringing him back.
The first Spidey holds a very dear place in my heart but I think Dafoe elevated the character dramatically in NWH. Yes it wouldn't work without that magnificent performance from the first film but I think, just treating it as a sequel story to the Goblin we got before, this is the best we have and likely will ever see him. Osborn is so sad and sympathetic while Goblin is more vile than ever and I love it, I absolutely adore his performance here. Plus that fight with Holland in the apartment is just 🤌
Oh man… I’m not gonna lie, having a dedicated face off between Garfield’s Spider-Man and Dafoe’s Goblin really does seem like an awesome idea. Same with Secret Wars. I highly doubt it would ever happen, but good grief I think Full Fat is on to something awesome
I mean if he doesn't fight him and Garfield's Spider-Man ends up being the only version he doesn't fight as much as i like that and think it should've already happened in No Way Home it ain't the end of the world but hopefully in another Spider-Man No Way Home styled film Maguire, Holland,And Garfield fight a mixture of the villains but this time it would be Maguire and Holland's villains and then Garfield could fight other Sam Raimi villains and the MCU Spider-Man villains if Garfield VS Dafoe never happens
The first Sam Raimi's Spider-Man came out three months before I was born, so I essentially grew up with this movie. Willem Dafoe's Green Goblin was my childhood villain, and I grew to love him as a character despite not knowing exactly why. That was, until he showed up in No Way Home. The moment Tom Holland's Spider sense went off, I was more anxious than I was watching the previous two Home movies. Then the Goblin spoke, and I realized why I loved this character so much. He upped the danger in this Peter's story so much more in that movie than Vulture or Mysterio ever could, simply by being there. Because I knew what he could do to this Peter if things didn't go well, and oh boy yeah it went horribly. This version of the Goblin is the boogeyman, a relentless demon that laughs at your tragedy as it chokes you out.
This is why I think Dafoe deserves a full on solo Green Goblin movie. Imagine 'Joker' meets 'American Psycho', a movie set in present time about Norman in his late years as an old man after decades struggling as an industries owner, letting himself fall back into the goblin's personality and exploring who he really is. They could even bring Maguire back to work as the antagonist that Osborn loves to hate and keeps scheming to kill. I guarantee Dafoe would deliver his best performance yet and maybe even win a bunch of awards.
Here’s something I want to add to this video. Mysterio has an entire army of drones that makes him a bigger threat than goblin, and yet it’s completely arguably that goblin did worse to Peter. Even with the exposure of Peter’s identity, there was more focus on May’s death than Mysterio in No Way Home.
That's because Mysterio is just a guy with Iron Man issues. The villain from the original actually had more depth than him. In fact, he's an exact copy of him.
In a way NWH turned Mysterio into the opening act… the first step into the chapter of pain and sacrifice that the Goblin would bring into Holland Peter’s story. Just as Dafoe’s Goblin would force Maguire’s Peter to grow up and understand the sacrifice involved in heroism, he would stoke the same fires in the MCU and similarly force Holland’s Peter to grow up as well. Mysterio just opened the door for the suffering to start… Goblin entered that door and burned everything down. What Goblin didn’t account for… is the Spider-Man’s ability to rise up like a Phoenix in the flames… that his first archenemy would save his new archenemy by making sure the younger Spidey didn’t fall to the dark side by killing Goblin. In a way, Tobey’s Spider-Man and Tom’s has a bond that not even Andrew Garfield’s Spider-Man has (yet, hopefully) as they are the two who had to face the chaotic flames of Dafoe Goblin’s fury… so it was fitting that it was Tobey who prevented Tom’s fall.
If they ever do an adaptation of Jason Aaron's Avengers arc with the Council of Red vs the multiversal avengers, I'd love to have him play ghost goblin in the Multiversal Masters of Evil
This movie understood that the best thing about the old Goblin mask was when no one was wearing it. In the first movie its best use is Norman pleading to it hung on the chair, the second movie when Harry discovers the Goblin cave the camera pans over to the mask, and in the third we se it as an introduction to Harry's goblin. Then in this movie they don't do a "what would you prefer, yellow spandex?" but have the mask be as menacing as it always has been while also giving a good reason why they changed it as apposed to Electro who's just different.
I love how the Goblin mask was destroyed in NWH as Norman tries and fails to remove himself from the Goblin, in a way foreshadowing the fate that Tom and Tobey’s Peter Parkers had in store for him… a world without his dark side taking control. But we know Norman Osborn wasn’t a good man even before his Goblin days… so will Goblin return again? Hopefully if Dafoe can be convinced it would honor the character so far.
“Strong enough to have it all. TOO WEAK TO TAKE IT!!!” 🎃 Willem Dafoe doesn’t need to be cast as The Joker. He was an amazing Green Goblin. Both fights between Tobey’s and Tom’s Spider-Man were the most brutal of all the Spidey franchise. As much as he was great in the Raimi trilogy, he took it to another level in No Way Home. The hallway fight was more suspenseful and scary than any horror movie I’ve seen in years. Green Goblin is Spider-Man’s worst enemy because not only can he fight toe to toe with him, but he’ll make it personal by attacking his loved ones. The hallway fight in No Way Home was intense. Dafoe is terrifying as Goblin. When Peter kept punching his face and he kept smiling & laughing was crazy! It reminded me of when Batman was beating Joker in the interrogation room 🃏 🎃 You’re absolutely right. If Thanos is Darkseid of the MCU, Green Goblin is definitely the Joker (along with Bullseye).
This could actually be a good idea for Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars, think about it, in Kang Dynasty, Kang can assemble a crew of multiversal villains, inlcuding Norman where he teleknetically forces the Goblin personality to fully takeover, but by the end of the movie the goblin betrays Kang and takesover battleworld which leads into secret wars
Nah goblin shouldn't be that big of a threat, he works best in the way he's been used in these two films. Dr Doom if introduced soon would be perfect for that role and he already does in the conics
Thanos may of been the big bad of the MCU, Ultron may of been interesting, but Goblin… Goblin is Sam Ramis masterpiece of a villain, Doc Ock comes soooo close though much thanks to Rami and Dafoe’s Portrayal “CAN THE SPIDER-MAN COME OUT TO PLAY?” The chills…
I was hyped but worried when both Goblin and Doc Ock was revealed to return in No Way Home. But Jon Watts did right by Raimi’s Green Goblin and Doctor Octopus, honoring the original versions of the characters and building upon them in natural, more extreme ways.
Been watching you for what feels like years now and I have to admit this is one of the best edited videos I've ever watched. Sends the diabolical message home in great fashion! Keep up the good work! Btw, did anyone else notice that goblin gave Holland Spidey a spine buster through the floor in their fight in the building? Savage!!
I watch this already but I'm here to give you the view you asked for in the last vid always happy to support this channel. Some of the best content on this platform!
I'd honestly rather see Tom Holland's Spider-man go up against the Hob Goblin next. I don't think the MCU needs it's own Norman Osborne at this point, I'd rather see Tom Holland's Spider-man fight a Goblin we haven't seen before.
Dafoe definitely gave us the best overall Marvel baddie. However, if we're talking villains unique to the MCU specifically, I've gotta give my vote to Hela from Ragnarok 😊
Great Video, I agree with what you mean about him being a multiversal Goblin and that they shouldn’t do an MCU Green Goblin however I think they should have it revealed that some of Goblin’s tech left behind in the MCU has been carted off by a crime boss named Roderick Kingsley, so that he can become the Hobgoblin(like with Vulture, he lacks superhuman powers but makes it up for it with his mind and the technology he has access to) being motivated by Spider-Man interfering with his criminal activities, allowing Norman’s legacy to live on, with his evil being transferred almost like a virus wanting to reach out and infect as many as it can, with Kingsley learning of NWH’s final battle and using Peter’s greatest fear against him, perhaps Kingsley even forms a proper Sinister Six consisting of Scorpion,Mysterio(whose death is retconned to be a illusion),Shocker,Tinkerer,Kingsley himself and Venom(they left that Symbiote there for a reason)
in fact it would be interesting to see Holland spiderman meet a Norman (as Willem Dafoe) in the MCU but before the goblin. Seeing Peter trying everything he can to prevent the creation of the gobelin and finally ending up leading to it.
While I too would like to see this. I'm questioning how we can introduce the Osbornes into the MCU because Norman specifically says that Oscorp does not exist in the MCU. They'd have to be real creative to introduce them.
I'd love to see Raimi's Goblin face off against Andrew's Spider-Man. I imagine Goblin doing everything he can to kill this Peter's new-found MJ, forcing Peter to fear his greatest failure repeating. Now that would be something.
I swear your videos excite me more than the subject matter itself lol, I'd love to put you in charge of the MCU, give you an infinite budget, and watch as you set the world on fire.
Imagine he shows up again in secret wars and causes Peter (maybe with the black suit at this point) to lose it and full on rampage while gobby’s cackling knowing he’s broken him
Green goblin, thanos, doc ock, ego, red skull, Alexander pierce, zemo are the only good villains I know from the mcu lol. No one says red skull, but man he’s so good!!
I have to agree because William Dafoe give us the best performance as the Green goblin since the first Spider-Man movie best version of Green goblin almost broke Tom Holland Spider-Man to the point that he tried to kill the Green goblin and have been for Tobey Maguire Spider-Man stopping him
@@FullFatVideos I feel like we own the foes Green goblin has done way more damage to Tom Holland Spider-Man that he did Tobey Maguire Spider-Man yes in the 2002 movie The Green goblin Did made it personal because Spider-Man refuse to team up with him to take over the city but Tobey Spider-Man refuse his offer and shows to fight for the city has stopped the goblin but the Green goblin made it personal in no way home the green goblin straight up broke Tom Holland Spider-Man physically and mentally to the point Tom Holland Spider-Man refuse to save the Green goblin but take him out because he killed aunt may
@SmashBrosInitiative that's true because William Dafoe he didn't really need a mask his facial expressions was better he acts like the Green goblin without the mask hell he looks like the Green goblin in the comic books without the mask are you got to do is paint his face green made his ears bigger he already have the purple hoodie and the movie he was good
@@FullFatVideosdude I love your videos and I've been a huge fan for awhile but this is just not true Holland and goblin's was not organic and very forced. The dynamics weren't nearly as deep or as complex as they were with Tobey's Peter
He didn't just take aunt away from him. Remember he was the one who blew up the box forcing parker to erase his whole life. He took literally his whole life and history away from him sure he didn't kill his gf but he made it to where he will never be with her. No goblin after this can even come close to destroying as much as this one has.
This was an Incredible Video for My All Time Favorite Version of Norman Osborn/The Green Goblin, My All Time Favorite Antagonist’s in The Entirety of The Marvel Cinematic Universe and My All Time Favorite Role for William James Dafoe.
With Green Goblin/Norman Osborne, Defoe is one of the greatest "alter ego" character actors ever. The only two people on his level are Christopher Reeve (Clark Kent/Superman) and James McAvoy (Kevin Wendell Crumb).
Anything new would be overshadowed by dafoe in this universe. I think they should just go for a hobgoblin at that point. It'd also add some mystery into the mcu if done right
My idea for if they have Dafoe return as Goblin would be for a black suit story. In this case, Dafoe would be playing the MCU Norman as someone who hasn't been corrupted yet or maybe even a good future version of what Raimi Norman could have been, while the Goblin Norman would act as the devil on Peter's shoulder through influence of the venom; constantly reminding him of his failure to save May and taunting him towards taking preemptive action against the MCU Norman.
The idea of Green Goblin being main antagonist of Marvel is amazing. First we would have complex Thanos, and then we would have character who is fully completely utterly evil in the most terrifying way possible
I think there is potential to have Dafoe’s Goblin as a recurring villain, but I don’t want Peter’s victory in NWH to be undone, nor it be portrayed as the wrong choice. Maybe, during his time offscreen in NWH, Norman Zola’d himself and created a copy of his consciousness in anticipation of his defeat?
Hands down my favorite scene in the MCU is when Peter is punching Goblin in the face, and Goblins just smiles. That is absolutely bone chilling. We know how much damage Peter can do, even when holding back, and he can hardly damage goblin. So good.
Willem Dafoe's Green Goblin is on the rare plateau of Comic Book Casting that Helped Elevate the Genre next to actors Like Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen from The Xmen movies, and I actually think Willem Dafoe's Green Goblin is on an even RARER level where his Comic Book Adaptation not only was the Best Performance across any other potrayal but they actually told his most Iconic Comic Book Tale with him being killed by his own glider. I feel like the only thing we missed out on is Not being able to see Norman Osborne's greatest achievement in his Entire Run in Marvel History and its not Gwen Stacys Death....its him using the Clout from killing The Skrull Queen on Live Television to take over S.H.I.E.L.D and turning it into the Villanous and Militant H.A.M.M.E.R lead by his own Corporate/Militarized Avengers and his Secret Black Ops Team of villians the THUNDERBOLTS with him as the leader of it all in the Iron Patriot Armor culminating in the Siege of Asgard on Earth.
You know that you are one of the most iconic villains of all time when you are both the villain that kicked off and capped off 20 years of Spider-Man movie storytelling. It is fitting that Goblin was the villain that forced two Spider-Man versions to grow up past their childhood wonder and realize the true cost of heroism. Before Goblin, both Maguire and Holland Spider-Men know of the responsibility to do good, but they didn’t realize what a sacrifice it would become until Goblin baptized them by fire. Maguire’s Spider-Man became a man by overcoming Goblin’s philosophy by rejecting it and staying true to Uncle Ben’s teachings, while taking the lesson that it is the people he loves that will pay to heart. Meanwhile Holland’s Spider-Man had a much longer childhood phase, one believed to be ended by Mysterio at first… but Beck was just the opening act as Goblin would throw the same philosophy at Holland, killing May to fast track Holland’s Peter to the same realization that Maguire’s Peter had at the bridge fight… it is the people I love who will pay when I become the hero. The much more impressionable Holland Peter would have fallen to the dark side if not for his counterparts, but it is fitting that it was Maguire’s Peter that stopped him from killing Norman. Those two share a bond no one else does, not even Garfield currently, as the two Goblin forced upon a path… and it was thanks to one Spider-Man saving another, that Goblin lost again. Both Maguire and Holland would make the same choice after fighting Goblin… to walk away from the women they loved and do a final swing as a solo Spider-Man. A final swing into adulthood and sacrifice.
What I love about Goblin is how he can do irreversible damage to both Peters. You mentioned Tobeys with him not telling Harry. Then there's Tom with Goblin destroying the cube and breaking the multiverse. Now nobody remembers him all because of That.
You say that Green Goblin is "the Joker" to Spider-Man and the Marvel Universe, to keep the character popular and relevant, we need new actors play the Green Goblin, just like we've seen 3 different actos play Spider-Man in the past 20 years.
@@FullFatVideosI’d be up to see that! Maybe Osborn leads an actual Sinister Six(I mean they had all that tech there and I don’t see why there can’t be other Doc Ocks,Vultures,Scorpions,Mysterios and Kravens) this time against Andrew’s Peter!
Personally I don't think this Goblin needs to encounter Garfields's Spidey, I think the same type of animosity can work between him and TASM2 Goblin, it just needs to be more developed and of course, a change of outfit and while the idea sounds epic and terrifying, I just can't see the goblin be a threat on the same level of Thanos or Kang, he works better as a smaller yet personal threat, the type of villain that will get under the heroes skin, pushing them to their limits, physically, mentally and morally, just like the Joker, apart from that, I agree with everything else from this video! Good Job 👍
Willem Defoe is the only one who could play this role. He is akin to Harrison Ford playing Han Solo. How could we ever imagine anyone else in this role?
As usual, wonderful video. I would love to see Andrew Garfield bounce off of Willem Dafoe. Two fantastic actors who didn't get the chance to work together in No Way Home. Heck, Andrew didn't get to work with Molina's Octavius either. They need to meet again! Do you think that the Goblin should stab Kang in the back and take over as the new antagonist in either Avengers 5 or 6?
I don't consider Goblin to even be Spideys best villain in the MCU, that's Vulture. An actual MCU character with relateable motivations and goals played perfectly by Michael Keaton. Goblin belongs to the Raimi trilogy and made a guest appearance.
11:25 - "Upon breaking the Goblin mask to pieces it freed up the character to take on a more performance-driven look" Yup, he was wearing that dumb Power Rangers mask, but he was scarier without it on
If the MCU got a goblin? I'd honestly want the Gold Goblin. It'd even be relatively easy. Peter Parker finding MCU's norman, and talking to him. 'I lost my aunt because of the man you could become if you let the monster win.' And in a way resuming thedynamic of broke kid and wealthy businessman with technology, but this time he is the mentor. The one trying t oget someone to do better.
