The mystery behind Sonic 2's Soundtrack 

Use your voice because it's more interesting than static text

Do both

(I don't wanna sound mean) I like the text better

You should keep using your voice

I will admit, it was a little hard to understand for some sentences or words so I did have to use subs. But don't be discouraged! Doing voice overs for your videos can be great practice. I see someone already mentioned the 1994 pronunciation but there's also "Wind" that was miss pronounced like "Wind" as in wind-up toy rather than the actual weather. It should be pronounced like "Win" but with a slight "duh" sound at the end. Practice makes perfect!

Yeah! I believe putting this song in Sky Chase was a idea they had near to the release of the game. I think the snowy sound design worked for a cloudy level, and the 4 note sequence is also common in clocks, so some places of the world has really tall clocks, I think that's how they had the idea of recycling this song in Sky Chase level!

Same,even if there wasn’t any context regarding a hypothetical snow level,the music just feels way too chill and calm for what is supposed to be a chase.

You know, i thought this theme is well- suitable for weather forecast

@@narcologer5375 haha same lol

This is why the Wing Fortress Zone music used in the September 14th prototype for Sky Chase Zone fits in much better.

That had to be my favorite part of the video.

I've been listening to this for decades and not once realized it. Very impressive.

It makes a lot of sense, my brother and I used to laugh as kids because the music sounded out of place for Sky Chase. Knowing the music was meant for an aesthetically peaceful snow level makes a lot of sense.

True but Labyrinth also has the water slide gimmick, which is now this twisted counterpart as its now oil

I keep finding you everywhere

@@thepurpleblurr and what are the odds that my dumbass is literally up trying to kill a mosquito at 4:am and happened to check youtube notifs

Brenda Ross and Craig stitt both claimed that oil. Ocean and sand shower (sabaku) are not connected in an way

Funnily enough, some mechanics from Oil Ocean were reused in Sandopolis from Sonic 3&K, which you probably realized by the name that it's related to the desert, like the sand acting as quicksand, just like the oil in Oil Ocean, and the tubes, like some parts in Sandopolis where you are carried by sand tubes through the zone.

I feel the same way for Aquatic Ruin. Now that I notice that western desert whistle, it just feels different

I know how you feel! Before Yasuhara revealed the Maps, I had never though about Sky Chase being a ice zone music, and nowdays is impossible for me to not hear it when the song plays

I belive in some cases they were recycling assets or levels from the original plan, but with a different purpose. Casino Night for example became a normal casino level. The song was changed to sounds happier, and "Sonic" and "Tails" details were added all over the level, while in the original it was supposed to be a "less happy" level from the same world as Chemical Plant and Genocide City. In other cases such as the Sky Chase level, I believe it was what was possible to do in time to finish the game. The ice level probably would have snow, falling snow, enemies coming from the snow, slippery floors maybe, and the desert would have moving sand, underground parts, etc. All of that is complex to design. Sky Chase level in comparison has a much simpler game design, where you're on an air plane and can jump and move basically. I think they were trying to come with simpler ideas that were good to play and at same time could be done in time to finish the game.

I actually belive (if i recall correctly) that the zones from the final act of the game (Metropolis act 3, sky chase and wing fortress) were added because they would be easier to finish in time and they added some variation in level themes compered to the rest of the game, not sure tho

I'd think a big reason the time travel theme was scrapped was because Sonic CD ended up running with it first. So they decided not to retread on that. Then they decided they had to pick stages to scrap due to time and space limitations. (Which would plague them later on with Sonic 3. There's even remnants of all the & Knuckles stages in the final version of Sonic 3.)

@@tofffe sonic cd originally wasnt planned so that cant be the reason why

I'm glad you liked :)

Thank you :D

Oh wow, thank you for such a nice comment, I appreciate it a lot! I'm very happy with everything that has been found. The christmas tree looks so cool, i love how they seems inspired in early CGI

@@CollisionChaos I agree they do look very festive, the fact that they found this just before Christmas was such great timing 🎄

It's so True!!!

Thank you!

Thank you for your comment! I don't think we have an official document that confirms the time travel was dropped before the development began. We have a concept art that shows some of the levels connected in time travel would share objects, and in the early prototype the Emerald Hill and Hill Top indeed share the trampoline. There's even a snail that was made for Hill Top, which seems to be a reference to Emerald Hill snail too. Hill Top and Hidden Palace also have dinossaur enemies, which seems to have been made to fit with the ancient times, since both levels are from past. I believe the Rock World was duplicated later, because in one of the documents, we have a level order that has 2 different pasts (Ancient Times and Medieval Times), and we get two Hill Tops, two Blue (which i suppose one was Blue Ocean and other Blue Lake) and two Death Eggs, but not two Rock Worlds neither two Genocide Cities. But when the island maps were made, it looks like the medieval time was cut. The duplicates of Death Egg, Hill Top and Blue Lake were cut, and instead we got a Rock World duplicate and a second Genocide City, which explains there's not apparent leftovers of a second Hill Top, a second Blue Lake and neither a second Death Egg. Considering how Hill Top and Emerald Hill share the tileset, how the ice level and desert level share the tileset, and how they were supposed to share some of the objects and these objects were made, and how the Sonic 2 beta internal level order fits with the island maps for most part, and considering how the island maps are from the original game plan with the time travel, I personally don't believe the time travel idea was scrapped before the development started.

Makes sense for the Neo Green Hill part, Sonic 3 concept arts call Carnival Night as "Neon", which means CNZ is probably a reused Cyber City 2/Neo Green Hill!

@@CollisionChaos What's interesting to note is that the original Zone order seems to get muddied after Hill Top. The first map has a clearly defined order marked by arrows: Green Hill -> Ocean Wind -> Wood(s) -> Sand Shower -> Metropolis -> "Warp Point" (which likely wasn't intended to be a playable stage, but more likely some sort of cutscene). Incidentally this lines up perfectly with the internal Zone IDs assuming 01 was intended to be Ocean Wind, which there's no reason to believe it wasn't. Starting with the second map, however, the level order becomes muddier; it only has arrows pointing to a zone order of "Warp Point" -> Tropical Plant -> Hill Top, after which the arrows disappear and the rest is left up to interpretation. As far as the level order and overall plot is concerned, based on the maps we have, this is my interpretation of how it might have gone: Sonic starts at Green Hill Zone (obvs), then works his way through Ocean Wind (likely some sort of beach/coastal-themed stage based on its name and position on the map), Wood(s), Sand Shower, and ends at Robotnik's new fortress in Metropolis, all in what is essentially an abridged retread of Sonic 1's story. Sonic manages to defeat Robotnik... or so he thinks, right up until "Robotnik" turns out to be a fake. As it turns out, the entire ordeal up to this point was a distraction to keep Sonic occupied while the _real_ Robotnik, having discovered a means of time travel within some nearby ancient ruins, goes to the past with the intent of altering it so that he rules the future. Sonic gives chase through this "warp point", from there traveling through Tropical Plant (likely some kind of rainforest or jungle stage), Hill Top, and Blue Lake, the latter of which I believe to be what ultimately became Hidden Palace due to the map placing the Zone in the mountains, the Zone itself having water (indicating that the lake in question was likely of the underground variety), and the fact that this aligns with its placement in the level order. From there, a cutscene takes place in "Olympus" in which Robotnik discovers a means of traveling through time whenever and wherever he pleases. Sonic finally catches up with him here and chases him to Rock World, where Robotnik manages to escape to the future while sending Sonic to the "ruined present" resulting from Robotnik's meddling in the past. Sonic goes through this version of Rock World, then through Oil Ocean and finally Dust Hill, from which Sonic enters the buried ruins of Olympus and travels to the future himself. He emerges in Casino Night Zone, into a world which Robotnik has successfully conquered due to Sonic not being around to foil his plans. He goes through Casino Night, Chemical Plant, and both Genocide Cities before confronting Robotnik on his newly built Death Egg, which he plans on taking back to the far past in order to rule all of time (think something similar to the Black Omen from Chrono Trigger). Sonic foils his plans, travels back to the far past himself, and undoes the damage Robotnik has caused, thus restoring peace to the timeline. So where does the level order fit into this, you ask? 00 - Green Hill 01 - Ocean Wind 02 - Wood(s) 03 - Sand Shower 04 - Metropolis 05 - Utilized for cutscenes, with "Act 1" being the Warp Point cutscene and "Act 2" being the Olympus cutscene 06 - Tropical Plant 07 - Hill Top 08 - Blue Lake (Hidden Palace) 09 - Rock World 0A - Oil Ocean 0B - Dust Hill (Mystic Cave) 0C - Casino Night 0D - Chemical Plant 0E - Genocide City 1 0F - Genocide City 2 (likely a placeholder name - based on the plot above, it could very well have been a precursor to Launch Base) 10 - Death Egg Now, IMO there are at least three things pointing to this concept having already been abandoned by the time the Simon Wai build was put together: 1. Genocide City (1) had been repurposed into Metropolis Act 3, which took over the slot originally reserved for cutscenes 2. "Genocide City 2" was replaced with Neo Green Hill/Aquatic Ruin, a Zone found nowhere in the original design docs and whose "ancient flooded ruins" theme runs completely contrary to the original plot based on its placement. 3. Blue Lake had been retooled into Hidden Palace, with its purpose being altered to cater specifically to the post-time travel plot. But that's just my two cents.

@@MisterVercetti Thank you for your comment! I actually think there's a chance the Metropolis could be the Warp Point, because if you compare the maps, the Warp Point seems to be at the same position as Genocide City, and there's one or two concept arts that connects Metropolis with Genocide City! The plan mentions a time machine, so maybe there would be a time machine in Metropolis, or Metropolis was a big time machine, it could explain all the wheels and stuff And your theory about how the events were planned is pretty interesting, thank you for sharing! I really think is possible the zone we know as Hidden Palace to have been originally Blue Lake, because what you said! the place is on a mountain with rocks and waterfalls, I can totally imagine this zone inside that mountain! That to not say how Sonic and Knuckles recycle stuff from Sonic 2, by comparing it with the early picture from the magazines, i really think is possible Lava Reef was recycled from Sonic 2 Hidden Palace, and in top of lava reef there's a Death Egg, pretty much like there's a sphere in the top of Blue Lake mountain

@@MisterVercetti I love this theory, however I disagree with you on Blue Lake becoming Hidden Palace. There's a document that says "Sonic travels to ancient tim activating Hidden". While some of this sentence is cut off, I deduce that the full sentence is "Sonic travels back to ancient times by activating the emerald in Hidden Palace", meaning that Hidden Palace was the original name of the time travel zone, but for whatever reason they called it Olympus on the level map concept arts.

Thank you!

Sonic 3 is even more mysterious, we don’t have screenshots of anything older than the proto we have and significantly less concept art

It is kinda strange that both sonic 1 and 2 have tons of concept art public yet little to none for sonic 3.

@@Dallas_Kong Sega screwed over a bunch of composers who worked on the Knuckles saga, that was the hypothesis for Sega‘s newfound hesitation to touch Sonic 3 (the game wasn't getting ports recently in contrast to its prequels). What if they did the same thing to the artists? Maybe it's all been taken care of now since Origins contains S3+K.

@@Dallas_Kong Maybe many or mostly of Sonic 3 concept arts are recycled from Sonic 2

Right? Is so cool how these demos give hints about the original purpose of the songs! I wonder if one day these demos originally had the original names of the levels where they would play

Yeah, it's pretty cool how they tried to use the musics somewhere. The Christmas song recycled into Sky Chase was geniously, and probably made very near to the game release. I believe it happened because the snowy sound design, which end up fitting for a cloudy level, since there's a similar look between clouds and snow. Plus the Christmas bell sequence, which is also the same as "clock sequence". In some places of world there are clocks can be really tall, which probably gave them the idea of using it for a level that happens on a high place. I believe they almost let this song as unused in the soundtest, just like the song 10, if they did not comes with this idea!

This is further supported in Sonic CD where we now know that most of the music was written first, including the Past tracks, and then cut back later to save on space on the CD.

Thank you!!

Actually, Wood Zone and Marble Zone are in slot 02, but the overall concept still fits. It also explains why Level ID 01 plays Emerald Hill's music: 01 was Labyrinth Zone in Sonic 1, and Emerald Hill's music occupies track 82, the same slot as LZ's music in S1. I do have a theory of my own regarding Wood Zone, however. I believe it was intended to play what would eventually become the Emerald Hill 2P theme, but ended up getting stuck with Metropolis Zone's theme either through the devs never getting around to updating the Sonic 1 music pointer for its level ID, or as the result of a simple typo: Metropolis's music occupies Track 83 in Simon Wai, whereas Emerald Hill 2P is Track 93, a single digit off. This is further evidenced by the Sonic 2 credits medley: nearly all of the tracks sampled there were used in various stages in Simon Wai, hence why you get all of the 2P themes in it (Oil Ocean originally used Casino Night 2P's theme, while Hidden Palace used Mystic Cave 2P's track), but Oil Ocean, Sky Chase, Wing Fortress, and Death Egg - all stages which either didn't exist or, in Oil Ocean's case, used a different track in Simon Wai - are all notably absent. The sole exception to this rule is Emerald Hill 2P: it plays in the credits medley, but is nowhere to be found in any developed Zone in Simon Wai. This indicates that this track was supposed to play in a Zone that, as of the Wai build, was intended to be in the game. The only Zone that fits the bill is Wood Zone. Going back to the "leftover music pointers from Sonic 1" discussion: assuming this is true, it lends credence to the theory that Sand Shower Zone may have actually seen some form of work done to it early in Sonic 2's development cycle. Continuing with the "leftovers from Sonic 1" music theory, Level ID 03, which belonged to Star Light Zone in Sonic 1 and is completely empty in all builds of Sonic 2 except for Nick Arcade, should theoretically play track 84 - which, in the Simon Wai build, is Casino Night's music. Yet it instead plays either Track 90 or 91, indicating that it was the result of a conscious decision, rather than simply being a Sonic 1 leftover like with IDs 01 and 02. Incidentally, Track 90/91 would go on to become Oil Ocean's theme - a track with a decidedly desert-ish feel to it. It's also not out of the realm of possibility that the level had a small amount of work done to it, but was scrapped before Simon Wai, resulting in an empty level slot - after all, we've heard countless times that Genocide/Cyber City Zone was repurposed into Metropolis Zone Act 3, yet in Wai its intended level slot remains, also completely empty, even as MZ3 already exists in a completely different level slot in that same build. This suggests that GCZ may have once existed in ID 0E, the slot originally intended for it, before the data that they had was ported over to ID 05, used solely for MZ3, and the data for 0E was completely purged. If they could wipe all traces of GCZ from ID 0E by the time Simon Wai came around, then the same could have easily happened to SSZ in ID 03.

@@MisterVercetti Interesting 🤔

Thank you so much ^^

I'm hoping one day we will finally get to see the Hidden Palace concept art, I think it could help a lot understand it. Thank you for the comment :D

Thank you a lot :D

Thank you! Sometimes this game feels like a never ending fountain of misteries. When you think we know everything, someone who worked on it just release a lot of unseen stuff

Heh it may have been me who made that comment. There’s a lot left to discover in this game, we have a significant amount of missing protos between Nick Arcade and Simon Wai. The Japanese developers trashed a lot of the Americans’ work because they were nationalist pricks, probably didn’t bother archiving it either.

@@protocetid Thank you for your comment! I saw this theory before about the japaneses members of the team not liking the americna levels, but it don't make sense for me with the current info we have and the current amount of interviews we have. 3 people who worked on the game (one american and two japaneses) said the levels were cut because no time to finish the game design. By looking into the prototypes, I believe they were saying the truth. A great example is Death Egg, if you check the prototypes, the planet background was only added to the level tileset near to the final version, and the chief artist confirmed Death Egg would be a much longer zone, that's why the concept art was so different from the level we got. Also, every american artist was interviewed, none ever mentioned levels such as Death Egg, Tropical Plant and Ocean Wind, so i guess they were made or would be made by japanese artists, yet they got cut as well. The team proportion difference between artist x game designer was too big. It was 6 level artists for one game designer, so that makes sense why we have more arts than ingame levels, since in order to get a level finished you need the art and the game design for it. Some of the levels that was added later such as Sky Chase seems to have been simpler designed levels, just because they could not have enough time to finish the game design for all of them. We also have some details about some of the cut levels such as the desert and ice, and they were too complex to design, such as enemies coming from sand, moving sand, underground parts, etc. So i can understand. Hirokazu Yasuhara and Yasuchi Yamaguchi also confirmed the problem was lack to finish the game design, and they also said if the team had more time all the levels would be in the final game, including the ones made by the americans. Like, what call my attention in this case is that they 3 told the same version, and they were interviewd in different years. I personally think if they were lying, at least one would come with a contradictory version.

@@CollisionChaos Could’ve sworn one of the ex employees who worked Sonic 2 outright stated the Japanese looked at down on anything not created by people from their country. Couldn’t find a quote where it was explicitly stated, I did find these which certainly show the Japanese devs were not friendly: “My only complaint was that if art had to get cut out it always seemed to be the American's on the team who's art got cut. Sometimes this was because the art wasn't working, but on other occasions, I don't believe this was the case (such as with Hidden Palace, although I never was happy with the far background).” - Craig Stitt “The tension between the Japanese and American staff was a primary reason for Cerny's departure; he felt the Americans were not treated respectfully by the Japanese.” Second is from Wikipedia and is cited. IDK if a Japanese company has ever acknowledged and apologized over its jingoistic attitude. That’s not something the country likes to do. There’s more anecdotes from people working for Nintendo, they were making a Wii game called Project H.A.M.M.E.R. Same deal, their work and feedback were not respected because they were not Japanese. Contrary to Japan’s image as a polite and honorable country their chauvinism has caused them to commit several war crimes throughout history which they refuse to properly acknowledge or do penance. They don’t get called out for it nearly enough. On a lighter note there’s another part of the Wikipedia page that should interest you, saw in another comment this is something you dream of. “According to Yasuhara, most level cuts were due to time constraints and he had been upset by each of them. In 2017, he said he wanted to remake Sonic 2 with the cut content restored.”

@Carlos HCR2! When you find out Japan wasn’t so different from Nazi Germany (did you see the Nazi type experiments they also conducted?), except they weaseled out of nationwide guilt and improvements to their social politics. The atrocities carried out by these two nations and the ones Russia is currently committing all have a common root, nationalism is a disease. Here’s something positive: Russia’s days are numbered. Yet another fascist country is going to collapse.

Thank you!

I think that the Snow Level wasn't in the plans when they created the map, and the two Rock Worlds are just to show where the time travel would happen, the same way Warp Point is also in two of the maps, because in the documents they always say "rock zone" like if there was only one When Masa created the music for the zones, some of the zones on the map were already changed or cut, maybe that was when things like Hidden Palace (that was probably meant to be Rock Zone) was changed to be Hidden Palace (that was supposed to be Olympus or Emerald Isle, the Island where the emeralds were, like the altar on Sonic Adventure) and the Snow Level was added in its place as rock zone

I think if we had more concept art of the zones or at least a high definition concept art for the ice level these questions could finally be solved.

I remember looking at the last letter and thinking “mountain?” While squinting my eyes as much as possible and then I looked at a website that had scrapped sonic 3 things and it included this and claimed it was an early ice cap zone. And while I don’t agree about that (due to ice cap zone being day, there being no Christmas trees present and the developer said that the cut level had Christmas trees) I do agree with the name “Snow covered Mountain”

@@joewilliams-un8vu Sonic 3 concept art has ICZ with snowmans and Christmas tree-like trees on the bg, pretty much the same as the S2 snow mountain level.

I just can't agree with Mystic Cave being Dust Hill, like where the hell is the dust or the hills in the zone, lol. This was probably a bug with the level order change, which made Mystic Cave load Dust Hill's title card data.

I don't know much about Sonic Mania development, but I wish we could get a official Sonic 2 remake with all the original plan back to the game. I'm not sure if they could do that, because I think some things were not even designed (like some bosses for the cut zones). There's a official release of Sonic 2 with Hidden Palace, with new parts of layout, boss, new enemies. And everything that was new (or added) don't feel like something that the Sonic 2 team would do IMO. So I kinda can understand. That would be cool if they bring together again the original team, or at least some of the most important members such as Hirokazu, Yasuchi, Brenda, Jina, Craig, Rieko, Tom etc to redo the game with the original plan. But chances of it happening are... bellow zero i believe :'(

Mirage Saloon was based off of Desert Dazzle and Sand Shower.

Dust hill became sandopolis Hidden palace became hidden palace, aka lava reef act 2 Winter (or rock world) became ice cap zone Woods became mushroom hill Tropical plant became angel island zone Death egg became death egg Blue lake became hydrocity (i think?) Madness mountain became Marble Garden Genocide/cyber city became Flying Battery

That's a interesting theory! I heard it, but I never could understand how would it be used. I think we don't know exactly when it was made, if it was after or before the Sonic 2 was already planned with the level concept arts ready. I myself can't imagine a level where it would have been used, feels like some kind of cutscene music, is kinda similar to Knuckles Chaotix "Child's Song".

I have theory's for some of these zones Ocean wind : this was used in concept art however I actually found a music that fits with the stage itself (the 2p results theme) wood zone : there isn't anything that hasn't been said with this zone Sand shower zone : the music intended for the zone matched an Arabic desert however looking at the mockup it looks more like a western style desert zone leaving me to believe that the neo green hill theme was a 2nd option Tropical plant : like you said emerald hill 2p fits with this zone especially the fact that the concept art looks somewhat similar to emerald hill blue lake zone : the hidden palace zone was actually originally intended for a normal stage but someone liked it so much that it became the infamous hidden palace zone and it does fit since the name blue lake is set on the mountains Rock world past : I've already talked about this Rock world ruined present : well this is a issue on one hand this was probably mystic cave but on the other it was actually a different zone entirely since there is a mountain set to where the name is, also around the mountain there is some ground that isn't grassy Dust hill zone : this is almost confirmed to be the mystic cave zone , but it could be another zone entirely since in dust hill there are no tree's and a chunk of green hill from the good present has been removed Genocide city : just like with wood zone there isn't anything to be said Now there is also the medieval time and another map showcasing what happened to the past after a big tsunami leaving hill top , blue lake , and tropical (not plant) summer zone , there is a stage in the concept art called madness mountain and is no where to be seen in the timeline maps leading me to believe it is apart of the medieval time but then there is another stage that can fit in both categories and that being aquatic ruin / neo green hill which is relating to the Olympus zone which was supposed to be a hidden shrine but after the big tsunami it vanishes along with rock world past , however in my opinion I think the duplicate hill top could be an option for neo green hill because its ruined and it also falls in the hill category just like with green hill and dust hill , about the duplicate blue lake though the concept art does show being called blue ocean and we know that after the big tsunami blue lake is more like is more like around the ocean now and we also get to see ruined pillars in the concept art and of course some caves. if you are reading this let me know what you think on this subject

Ikr. When the snow level’s image showed up with the sky chase theme it made me a bit emotional

@@SugarPopLauren nah bro, that sand shower pic made me feel like i was gonna be killed hours after seeing something i was not meant to

Thank you so much, i'm glad you liked the video!

Exactly. At one point while playing through Sonic 2 on mobile, I'd thought that Christian Whitehead had accidentally swapped Oil Ocean and Hidden Palace's themes because Oil Ocean's theme made more sense for a palace than Mystic Cave 2P, especially when hearing them one after the other.

Thank you for your comment! Yeah, and the demo versions of the songs seems to give some hints about the original purpose of them! The whistle thing in Aquatic Ruins is even one octave higher in the demo, which makes it even more similar to how they usually do in desert songs

lol

That's a very interesting theory, thank you for sharing! About Sand Shower, I'm pretty sure I played at least one japanese game that does this kind of thing like using a western styled song for a arab desert, so i'm not sure if that would really be a problem, I personally think the song fits well for the level, and at least 3 persons who worked on the game (art director, chief artist and designer) confirmed the level was cut because lack of time to finish the game design for it. We also don't have confirmation if the songs were based in description, mockups or concept arts. I don't think it would be impossible if Masato Nakamura simply got a overall description of the level like "Desert with moving sand, cactus, mountains". Also, if i'm not wrong, Tarzan was released in 1999, so it could not have be a influence for the Aquatic Ruins music (1992). About the Hidden Palace underground/palace theme, do you know the source of this? I have heard other people talking about it but i never could find on which interview it was said about it, i would love to read more about it!

Yeah! Like, in one of the plans, there was two pasts. One called Ancient Time, and other called Medieval Time. But it looks like in the island maps we only have ancient times but not the medieval. And Hidden Palace (Blue Lake?) and Hill Top has the dinossaur enemies, so I guess they decided to remove the Medieval Time very early and just keep the Ancient Time. So that makes a lot of sense for me Tropical Plant being 06 and using Emerald Hill 2P music, it fits so well IMO! About Hidden Palace/Blue Lake, is very interesting, i maybe will make a video about it. In Sonic 3/Knuckles they recycled various ideas or concepts from Sonic 2. In Sonic and Knuckles Sandopolis comes after Mushroom Hill. Just like in Sonic 2 Sand Shower would be after Wood. I bet the Sandopolis concept art also comes from Sand Shower concept art, because they have some similarities like the dark rock wall, enemies coming from sand, etc. In the 1992 magazines, there was a earlier version of Hidden Palace with a background similar to Lava Reef, and in Lava Reef you can see Death Egg in the top of the background. So I think that would make sense if the zone we know as hidden palace was blue lake, because blue lake seems to be inside the mountain, and in the island there's a misterious sphere in the top of that mountain. Wood zone name, for example, is in the lower part of the trees in the island, but blue lake is more high, like if it's at the mountain. And the mountain is basically made of rocks and waterfalls, like the zone we know as hidden palace, so i think is very possible it was originally blue lake. The artist who made it (Craig Stitt) said on interviews the big emerald was just a object that you would break to continue the level, maybe someone from the team (like director or designer) liked this level a lot and though it would be cool to turn this level into hidden palace instead of it being a normal level. That CGI aesthetics was kinda impressive for a 1992 pixel art IMO.

Thank you for your comment! It's confusing why the level order in the island maps seems to be different from the level order document, and since the Sonic 2 beta level order seems to fit mostly with the island maps, I guess that text concept art was an very early development document, that was later updated when they made the island maps, some of the most important differences that always call my attention are: the text document has two Hill Tops, two Death Eggs, two Blues (Blue Lake and Blue Ocean?), but don't have two Genocide Cities and neither two Rock Worlds, while in the island maps you don't have a second Hill Top and neither a second Death Egg, but has a second Rock World. Considering how the banper enemy was made, with a full concept art for it, and the initial concept art Yasuhara made mentioned "Rock Zone (Past)" I believe is much likely the second Rock World was added later, or the original Rock World was moved to the past. We don't know if there was or no a good reason for that, it could be various things. Maybe initially the snow level would be a ruined level, but they decided the theme "Christmas" was too "happy" for a Ruined Time level, or they did not expected Masato Nakamura would comes with such a nice sounding music (Sky Chase) and decided it would be more suitable for a Past level than Ruined, specially if you consider that Oil Ocean and Mystic Cave were likely levels from the Ruined time, both having non happy sounding music. The fact the past island don't has arrows after Hill Top makes it even more confusing, because we don't know if after Hill Top you'd go to Olympus or to Blue Lake. In the Sonic 2 beta, 08 is the level we know as Hidden Palace, which is a zone made by rocks and waterfalls, which i personally think is kinda fitting if Blue Lake was an level inside that mountain, which is made of rocks and waterfalls. The name (Blue Lake) appears at a much higher position, when compared with Wood Zone (present) which makes it possible in my opinion that Blue Lake was inside that mountain, that would explain why the music sounds like a normal level and why there's the dinossaurs enemies on it. Sonic and Knuckles recycled ideas from Sonic 2, sometimes even order ideas, such as Mushroom Hill (forest) -> Sandopolis (desert), just like in Sonic 2 Wood Zone (forest) -> Sand Shower (desert). I think Lava Reef could have been recycled from Hidden Palace, specially if you see that old magazine photo, with the different background, in the top of Lava Reef there's Death Egg, like in top of the mountain where Blue Lake is, there's a misterious sphere. In the order document, is mentioned you'd have to activate "Hidden Shrine", would it be the same as Hidden Palace we know? could it be Olympus? is very confusing... I wonder if Blue Lake could have something to do with Olympus, in the Sonic 3 documents, Marble Garden (called Ruin) would start from a flood from Hidrocity, and Marble Garden aparently was recycled from Emerald Isle, as mentioned in the McDonald art from 1994, I wonder if Emerald Isle, Olympus and Aquatic Ruins could have some connection, specially considering how the Sonic 3 concept art calls it "Ruin", and even more considering how Aquatic Ruins is at a very weird ID ($0F), the last ID to have a music on the internal music playlist. Is also very weird how in the early prototype in Hidden Palace we have not only the enemies we already know (bat and dinossaurs) but in debug mode you also find the Oil Ocean enemies, and an extra set of enemies that includes the aligator and a different piranha, which happens to be kinda similar to that piranha that can be seen in Blue Ocean concept art, which only makes it more confusing, because in the island maps, every level with Hill on it's name is nearly in the same position on the island (Green Hill, Hill Top, Dust hill), sometimes it makes me think about a possible connection between Ocean Wind, Blue Ocean, and Oil Ocean. What makes me frustated is that I don't think the team would be able to remember anything else, these details are too confusing, and i think we would need to get more documents.

@@CollisionChaos oh hello, im really excited that you've shared your opinion, it just surprised me that the mcdonalds 94' sth3 Marble Garden's art is just from Emerald Isle, but something made me think that it is a mistake because theres no water in MGZ and instead of it, it has mud. Also i've seen the level sketches for sonic 3 and i've found Modern Factory (Launch Base) very interesting, first of all it has the Death Egg in a lake with many trees around, also the rival (knuckles) path is a underground area that has ruins. Maybe there is a connection between Marble Garden and that early Launch Base, obviously there is some inspiration from Emerald Isle (original Aquatic Ruins)... Also something i did for find levels connection was simply comparing the rythms of the levels music, for example, Emerald Hill theme's rythm is the same as Hilltop rythm, so, the music has a very important role here.

Not everyone who knows about Sonic 2 knows about the demo songs :( so i prefered to show the ingame versions. Plus I wanted to show the bell channel isolated, and when the video was made we still did not identified the masa demo synthesizer so i could not get a isolated bell channel for masa demo

@@CollisionChaos oh... um, I'm sorry. Still, I just thought it'd be easier to use, due to it sounding pretty much identical to most christmas songs that I hear.

Thank you!

Hello! Thank you so much for your comment! It's very possible Dust Hill was just a Mystic Cave's Beta name, but in my opinion the fact 3 people who worked on the game thinks Dust Hill is a desert is something that should not be ignored. At least not until the rest of unsolved questions about Sonic 2 are solved. About the Tarzan yell, i believe the note structure is different. It starts with a lower note, oscilate between 2 higher notes, go down to a longer note that is a bit lower, back to the higher notes, and then back to the first note. The desert whistle is an oscilation on 2 notes that usually consist on 5 notes sequence (low, high, low, high, low). Multiple games and media uses it. I used the whistle sequence as an example in my video because is the most evident and easy to listen, but the prototype seems to have 2 channels trying to emulate a guitar that also sounds desert-ish for my ears If you're interested, here are the channels isolated from the song: drive.google.com/file/d/111MwxEvLSxDAt-zTK6yC3fvKDib-SYIu/view?usp=sharing Here is a "high quality render" of it (the whistle i sampled from a RU-vid video, the other channels i used SMPS2MID to generate a midi and then replaced the instruments with realistic sounds, is just an example): drive.google.com/file/d/1ahOIUg9kbzvYxJIkBqzg4u1kCmWkSOfO/view?usp=sharing I'm not saying it proof anything, but i is something i personally consider as valid for the debate In my opinion, at this point there's no doubt Sand Shower was a desert. Sonic 3 and Knuckles recycled multiple ideas from Sonic 2, and like Sand Shower comes after Wood, Sandopolis comes after Mushroom Hill. There are some similarities between Sand Shower and Sandopolis, I believe Sandopolis art was based/inspired in the same concept art that originated Sand Shower, maybe i will do a video about it in the future. But to put it simple: the fact 3 staff members really believe Dust Hill is a desert + a song that has that whistle sequence, is extremely suspicious for me. Sure it could be wrong, but is something i don't see people commenting, and is something that i don't think should be ignored. If you'd like, I could give you examples of other games that uses this whistle for desert themed songs, you will see it always consist in that oscilation with 5 notes, which is different from the Tarzan Yell, which usually consists in 9 notes with a different structure. I'm not sure if i understand your question about if there's a Hill Present. But in the Island maps, every level with a Hill on it's name seems to be connected in the time travel (Green Hill being Present, Hill Top being past and Dust Hill being ruined). And I appreciate a lot your feeback, thank you so much :) The idea of my video is trying to connect what has been said on interviews, with documents and internal data from the prototype and then i show my personal conclusion for it, but i still stimulate people to get with their own conclusion. I tried to separate what was my conclusion to what was data (such as the internal level order from the prototype). Even if i got wrong conclusions here, I think is very worth to stimulate the debate and who know find an answer for the unsolved questions! Sonic 2 is my favorite Mega Drive game, and i always have been very fascinated with the mysteries surrounding it. Sometimes it feels like a never ending fountain of secrets. When you think you know everything, someone who worked on it just release a bunch of unseen stuff! I wish we could get photos of the Masa Demo tapes, who knows if we could see some precious information about the musics on it...

Agree with all of that. Those interviews are extremely unreliable, leading questions, bombarded with mail using the mame beforehand, them going off of memory decades later, etc. Some of the things said have been contradicted by solid stuff like the concept art afterwards. One of them used the fitst google result as a response to a question, and one of the last things Ross says is even that she never used the name dust hill for the desert before these interviews. It's absurd to treat the interviews as any sort of evidence after not only this, but what was released later on (like the time travel conceot art) Aquatic Ruins music could be anything, I personally don't get 'desert' from it at all even with the whistle. Good to see the rockworld-winter connection though

Thank you so much!

Thank you so much :D

Guess due to sequencing shenegins once they inject a song they ain't moving it an inch in memeory if they don't gotta

Thank you

And i thought there was no remixes about aquatic ruin zone, and for me, esaka acid mix fits way well as genocide city

That's interesting to think! Sometimes i wonder if it's not possible some of the enemies that were made for other level ended up being on Metropolis.

@@CollisionChaos well, sonic 2 is really strange, some mechanics like the leaf effect in aquatic ruin, the spring in casino night, the hill top earthquake, the oil ocean conduct, and transportation tubes, air pipes and Cylindrical tunnels are some mechanics only use In their level and no in others, and like how in sonic 3 and knuckles used unused concepts of levels also used some mechanics like the leaf effect, the earthquake, the transportation tubes, air pipes (now fire) and so muchs more. Sonic 2 is a little little piece of the big cake that could it be. Nice video bro NEW sub.

I think Emerald Isle fits more like a Medieval version of Emerald Hill, but nice theory regardless.

It’s a bit confusing since Aquatic Ruin/Neo Green Hill resembles Emerald Isle. Unless Olympus became Emerald Isle and then became Neo Green Hill/Aquatic Ruin.

Thank you for your comment! And yeah, is interesting to compare the changes the levels had on their purpose. Casino Night is interesting because in the final version the song becames much more happy and Tails/Sonic cards and details were added all over the level! Is interesting how they seems to have tried to make it looks like a fun and normal present level

@@CollisionChaos Yeah Casino Night on Masa's demo sounds super depressing. Very much a "we fucked up!" Atmosphere to the song.

Yeah, is pretty interesting how they come with some similar ideas despite being such different teams. It would make sense if they had access to info or disks.

Thank you

Thank you so much!! And yeah, is pretty cool to think Masato Nakamura made songs for these levels that were meant to be in the game, it confirms the interviews with Yasuhara and Yamaguchi where they confirmed these levels would be in the final version of game if the team had enough time to finish!

Thank you!

Thank you!

I'm glad you liked it!!

Hi! I don't know about this theory, but Sonic 2 and Sonic CD don't really have a connection, they were made by different teams. Most part of the team who made Sonic 1 went to USA to make Sonic 2 together with more people, while Sonic CD was made by a new team. I think only the character designer from Sonic 1 worked on Sonic CD, and the Sonic 2 chief artist, who was added later to work on Special Stages (which is probably why some similarities of Sonic CD special stages with Chemical Plant)

well I meant if sonic 2 had a time travel method then both games had the same idea but I also thought that they were being worked on at the same time from both country's, but then again if sonic 2 had the time method first then would sonic cd be a different game or is it the other way around?

and I ask this because sonic 2 was finished before they work on cd with makes me wonder if sonic 2 had the time travel idea first

@@xuift From what I know it was just a coincidence, since Sonic 2 was made before Sonic CD. Also, the time travel worked differently for each game. In Sonic 2 the time travel was more a plot feature, while in Sonic CD it works more like a level mechanic.

Thank you!

Es posible,me sorprende que no fuera mencionado.

What interview mentioned that? Plus it’s a beta name that got changed eventually,it wouldn’t be weird if that used to be the name at some point considering that a mine can be considered a “dusty hill” depending on how you look at it.

I think Dust Hill would only make sense if the time travel was still in the game. As Hill Top would have been the past, Emerald Hill the present and Dust Hill the ruined future. I think what they were originally going for is having the overall hills to waste away lower and lower as time goes on

That’s also Gimmick Mountain from the Master Syster version which has a similar name and gimmicks as Madness Mountain from the Sonic 2 concept art (which most likely became Mystic Cave)

Thank you!

Thank you!

Thank you so much for your comment! The dome you're talking, is that big sphere in the top of a mountain? Your theory makes a lot of sense for me, because the closer you get to future, the most tecnologic it looks! Plus, it's at the Blue Lake mountain, and in my theory, when map is crossed with Sonic 2 beta, it's the zone we know as Hidden Palace. If Hidden Palace is indeed a level inside the mountain, that would makes even more sense. First because the level is made of rocks and waterfalls, second because Sonic 2 Hidden Palace and Sonic and Knuckles Lava Reef seems to be based in the same concept, specially the magazine photo that had a different backbround. Both are cave levels with CGI-like floor. In Lava Reef you can see Death Egg in the top of the level, so if Blue Lake is Sonic 2 Hidden Palace, is pretty much the same place as Lava Reef, since in Sonic and Knuckles title screen there's also a mountain with Death Egg at the top. Such a misterious game, I hope one day we will get every answer. I was very disapointed with the lack of new Sonic 2 concept arts in Sonic Origins.

​@@CollisionChaos Yeah, I suspect the Death Egg might be that big sphere on the mountain. In case you haven't seen it, here's the Sonic 3 map I was talking about: abload.de/img/sonic3_jp_manual_mapgnutl.jpg - the Death Egg even has those little dots found on the sphere in Sonic 2's concept maps! I rewatched and I guess I missed that part about Hidden Palace slotting in where Blue Lake would be - super interesting, and as you say, it lines up very nicely with the Death Egg/Lava Reef & Hidden Palace crash site in S&K! I never even considered it before, because I always assumed Olympus was Hidden Palace due to the oval text box and lack of "Zone" in its name - a bit like how Hidden Palace in S3K is less of a real "Zone", and more like an extended cutscene area. That being said, Hidden Palace being connected to Blue Lake not only fits the level order perfectly, but it would also make sense if, as you say, the idea was reused in S3K as the Death Egg-Hidden Palace bit. Also, looking at the maps again, I noticed one extra little detail - the "egg sphere" in the past map lacks the little dots it has in all the other time periods (and even the Sonic 3 map's Death Egg!) - maybe originally Eggman had transformed a natural or ancient structure into the Death Egg, sort of like the way he terraforms Little Planet in Sonic CD, and that's why the structure looks more "artificial" in every time period after the past? I dunno, but it's interesting to think about! Also, it's fascinating to me that Genocide City 1 & 2 are located exactly where the two extra "future" spheres are - maybe Sonic would have destroyed them, before Eggman escaped to outer space using his last remaining Death Egg hidden in the mountains? Just a little food for thought :) And yeah, it's a real shame about the lack of new info on Sonic 2's development. I was really hoping we might even get some new interviews from the designers explaining more thoroughly their original vision for the game, but I guess that's never gonna happen sadly, at least not until someone asks Yasuhara about his original plans :( Thanks again for the insight! (And sorry for another mini-essay lol)

Thank you!

Thanks very much!

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