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The Newest BBCF Tier List Is WILD 

ANIMEILLUMINATI
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A new Blazblue Central Fiction tier list has came out from some long time Japanese top players...and it's a bit questionable. Do you agree with some of the placings or would you move around some characters?
Tier List: / 1529119184155979778
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31 май 2022

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Комментарии : 310   
@bekomon
@bekomon 2 года назад
Ragna being lower than characters like Relius or Tager is definitely a meme.
@devilmaycrysarockingdontcome
@devilmaycrysarockingdontcome 2 года назад
I would disagree with that too but this helps justify my losses so I'm gonna run with it 🤑🤑🤑
@ladong644
@ladong644 2 года назад
Relius is high tier tho, Ragna is true mid
@RainbowLizardOne
@RainbowLizardOne 2 года назад
The fuck are you talking about with Relius
@DAILY-MOTIVATIONer
@DAILY-MOTIVATIONer 2 года назад
Istg I hate tager I wish he was gone from this damn game. He always pulls me in, has invincible moves, and does so much fking damage it makes me wanna die. How can I counter this fucker?
@Killakob3s
@Killakob3s Год назад
Mf thought he could sneak in relius and we wouldn't notice
@gizoid5526
@gizoid5526 2 года назад
That Ragna plscement is outright nuts Sure he's relatively simple compared to the rest of the cast but he's solid and has tooooons of results
@ANIMEILLUMINATI
@ANIMEILLUMINATI 2 года назад
Yeah, he's definitely a solid character.
@AJMurdoc
@AJMurdoc 2 года назад
Your points about “top top tier” and “crazy optimal on paper” holds so true. So we all gotta take this with a grain of salt. Also I’d love more BBCF on this channel! (Tager belongs in both D and GOD tier I will not elaborate on this)
@siriusbacon2162
@siriusbacon2162 2 года назад
Agreed on more BBCF! Game is still hype as hell as CB showed!
@elios7623
@elios7623 2 года назад
no need to elaborate
@SilentAndy
@SilentAndy Год назад
Yay... I accidentally play meta/top picks. 🤦🏻‍♂️ (I've always just played who I liked and don't pay too much attention to tier lists). I never liked meta (in ANY game) and the ppl that play meta tbh. I only looked at this one just now because I was curious to see what the general OPINIONS are on these characters. Tier lists are opinion at the end of the day. Now the long disclaimer is out of the way... I tend to play: Es, Litchi, Rachel, Mai, Izayoi, and Nine. Again, I just like the characters. 😂
@whizthesugoi
@whizthesugoi 2 года назад
Gotta love how Jiyuna's style is different from the other Panda tubers, the music on his videos feel like part of the narrative, not background noise
@ANIMEILLUMINATI
@ANIMEILLUMINATI 2 года назад
FG Music is everything.
@downtownhbrown4965
@downtownhbrown4965 2 года назад
Jubei being mid is pretty wild. When I first heard about the always crouch thing I didn't think much of it, but after improving and playing more Tao and constantly looking out for crouch hits for more real damage, it is an unbelievable handicap which just goes to show that Elyon is godlike for making him work. Bullet higher than Ragna is beyond whack though.
@setxjrichie9745
@setxjrichie9745 2 года назад
Saw Nine and Valkenhayn in almost dead ass mid tier and laughed. This tier list gonna be largely disregarded I'm willing to bet
@polar6066
@polar6066 2 года назад
terumis true punishment was sharing the lowest tier with celica
@Bezza487
@Bezza487 2 года назад
I will now be citing this tier list every time I lose a Ragna game.
@DarkKnight179
@DarkKnight179 2 года назад
The Izayoi placement is actually how they ranked her before. For some reason, Japan rates her way lower than NA does. I ... dont think I agree, playing her she feels like she should be at least S-tier. She has every tool you would want, and even her downsides are whatever. Sure, you need to build up GA stocks, but thats like it. And you get those on block too.
@thepirateage6396
@thepirateage6396 2 года назад
FINALLY A BBCF VIDEO! we need more man pls.
@Matriaxx85
@Matriaxx85 2 года назад
As a Bang player i thought it was a good character with good damage, mobility and mix ups but i didn't thought it would be placed that high. At the same time hearing you, its good to see that Fukku Bang was responsible for that, because as a player he has pretty good neutral, defense and combos and he is pretty consistent overall, so i'm happy to see him winning and making the top players re-considering the character's strengths because of him.
@vozy1
@vozy1 2 года назад
Definitely would wanna see you make your own tier list Jiyuna!
@zaychavitch5317
@zaychavitch5317 2 года назад
As a Nine main with a friend who mains Naoto, I'm glad this list excuses all my losses
@fiercetatsu6782
@fiercetatsu6782 2 года назад
Naoto is also much harder to just be good with so idk man
@tabkg5802
@tabkg5802 2 года назад
@@fiercetatsu6782 because Nine is easy?
@CherrySmug
@CherrySmug 2 года назад
@@tabkg5802 nine more to normal not to hard or easy
@karmiccrotal3480
@karmiccrotal3480 2 года назад
@@tabkg5802 I'd say medium. Especially compared to Terumi Susanoo and Mai for example.
@Thee_Znutz
@Thee_Znutz 2 года назад
Woah finally a serious tierlist that I've been meaning to watch, I remember weeks ago I searched it on youtube and literally click baited by a tier list about the smash or pass bbcf characters, wild. Thanks Jiyuna and the 4 OGs🙏
@justviewing8387
@justviewing8387 2 года назад
would love to see more bbcf! maybe you could cover some tournaments like you do with strive? much love!
@terrysalt
@terrysalt 2 года назад
Amane is my favourite character because I really like the idea of specialising in chip damage.
@ANIMEILLUMINATI
@ANIMEILLUMINATI 2 года назад
I like the idea too (Strider/Doom), I just don’t like Amane.
@Ianman629
@Ianman629 2 года назад
Love the Blazblue content. Thanks for getting me into the game it’s been a blast
@NeoBoneGirl
@NeoBoneGirl 2 года назад
Ragna by far is the worst placement lmao, but I still wanna know why they put Azrael so low. To be as fair as possible to the list, he loses to almost all of the top 8 and probably more than half of the characters placed above him, but he doesn't lose THAT badly, I don't think. His bad matchups also all have the caveat that cuz his offense is nuts and he does mad damage, he has a high chance to get in once and end the round there. Very odd to me as an Azrael player
@freyzerb.castro9124
@freyzerb.castro9124 2 года назад
Yeah the characters from AA tier to B tier are really weird organized and I feel like some of them don't even belong there
@grayshadow2597
@grayshadow2597 2 года назад
the four dude is downplaying their own char. Other than the characters they downplay and relius, I agree with pretty much everything else.
@Arkirious
@Arkirious Год назад
Azrael has always been A tier, his mix ups are good and he had answers for alot of situations. I'd like to think he's kinda a character that exists in his own tier though. All it really takes is one small mistake to get obliterated by him. I main Azrael myself, but I started as Naoto and play and dabble in many low tiers.
@Yepmyaccount
@Yepmyaccount 2 года назад
The problem with a tier list like this is that a lot of those characters are still next to an "A" tier rank despite being situated in the middle, so it just makes it intuitively confusing, despite them technically having a viable ranking. It's also just an inherent difficulty that comes with having such a large and diverse cast. Too many tiers just makes it confusing and start to seem arbitrary. I'd just say they didn't really need the GOD tier, and could have just given that tier an S while moving everything down a rank--and then moving Ragna up because there is no way he's hanging out in the vicinity of Noel and Terumi.
@Riltea
@Riltea 8 месяцев назад
I’m not really a fan of tier lists that go above S tier, & having most of the characters in A or S tier. It feels like tier lists are taking into account the character overall, which isn’t really helpful. Instead, it needs to be done relatively. B & C tiers are average, so most characters naturally should be there. Plus, if 90% of the cast is in B tier, then the list should become more specific & nuanced so that there’s more variance.
@aclassicaltrove
@aclassicaltrove 2 года назад
Ragna's placement is the wackiest, zero questions about it. The second weirdest is Relius, who has a much larger tournament presence than every other character in that tier. Both should be A at the very least, in my opinion. It's also weird to see Izayoi, Jin, Mu and Valk so relatively low. Also weird to see Lambda and Hazama this high. The list is definitely a little strange, but speaking as a beginner Nine main who's asked for the opinions of much more capable Nine mains, I'm fairly okay with the tier she's placed in. Her defensive tools are inconsistent and she has to get creative and extra careful if she wants to open people up. If the character is rushdown and can weave around her normals and also has good pressure (like Mai, Naoto, Izanami, Rachel, Mu, Litchi and Izayoi), woe is Nine. I agree with Plat's relative placement, and it's nice to see that opinions on Jubei have improved so much.
@Megaman.ExE7
@Megaman.ExE7 2 года назад
Been playing this game tons on PS4 before the "re-release" so it's genuinely cool and exciting to see that there is new life being breathed into the game now. A CF tier list in 2022 is crazy
@kaigai-nikimajikoi325
@kaigai-nikimajikoi325 2 года назад
C tier Ragna lookin a bit funny when you look at the characters above him at A and B tier.
@CodeBlazeFate
@CodeBlazeFate 2 года назад
We need Jiyuna Ragna back to show them the power of the azure. They did our boy so dirty it's like we're playing story mode.
@PapaElf11
@PapaElf11 2 года назад
more bbcf plz, love the content!
@Sockscalibur
@Sockscalibur 2 года назад
Bbcf guides comin back? Oh hell yeah!!
@MrRodRen
@MrRodRen 2 года назад
I'm still in utter shock that Nine and Platinum fell as far as they did, outside of their respective gimmicks, them in the hands of a master DESTROY. Nine had always been top tier and Plat shot up there right along with Rachel. It's so weird seeing them so low, same could be said for Izayoi. Once she got buffed in BBCF she was legendary.🤯
@holydiver3000
@holydiver3000 2 года назад
Sure we can think a lot of the placements are nuts, but what I really like is that all these different points of view show how the game is still evolving and, in correlation it is a well balanced game. Except for top 4 everyone has their opinion and that's crazy if you think about it.
@Jeremy7809
@Jeremy7809 2 года назад
Ragna being C tier is the lore coming true. Eventually he'll be D tier and then slowly removed from the list and no one will notice 😢
@gspandem1204
@gspandem1204 2 года назад
Didn't he become an omnipotent god at the end of BBCF, resetting everything, just without him in the picture?
@Jeremy7809
@Jeremy7809 2 года назад
@@gspandem1204 that's right he entered God S+ tier above Rachel... But still forgotten 😭
@ANIMEILLUMINATI
@ANIMEILLUMINATI 2 года назад
Ragna who?
@dingo535
@dingo535 Год назад
I’m a scrub but I agree on Ragna, I definitely think he is stronger than that.
@zerostarhx
@zerostarhx 2 года назад
I need a Jiyuna tier list ASAP
@LocalJanitor6
@LocalJanitor6 2 года назад
I cannot fathom Tao's placement cuz I don't think it's possible for Makoto to ever be worse than her in BBCF (and I main Tao lol). Kagura better than Hibiki? Mu-12 Better than NINE? Imma need them to post a breakdown video on this or something lol
@karmiccrotal3480
@karmiccrotal3480 2 года назад
Considering the HELLA damage Kagura hits, I could imagine why he's placed above Hibiki. Makoto above Relius though? Nah-
@shuwo1818
@shuwo1818 2 года назад
Terumi is definitely a god tier
@pedroportela6476
@pedroportela6476 Год назад
I picked Susanoo because I wasn't good enough to play Naoto optimally, and because Ragna got boring after a while. And honestly, probably the healthiest decision I've ever made as far as Blazblue goes. Unga Bunga can be surprisingly therapeutic.
@pon3d120
@pon3d120 Год назад
As a Susanoo player I 100% picked him to unga and not to play optimally. If I wanted to think I'd play Hakumen.
@jaychillins7574
@jaychillins7574 2 года назад
I am happy to see that all of the characters I considered maining are chilling in the S tier row
@Lurponk
@Lurponk 2 года назад
You should make a BBCF OST tier list and preach the message of Stay Unrivaled
@Zuw_1
@Zuw_1 2 года назад
i'll wait for your tier list for sure ! i also think ragna kinda op maybe high tier not the top tier but high tier
@erickp3003
@erickp3003 2 года назад
Still hoping for more BBCF beginner guides, Lord Jiyuna. 😀
@novasco6960
@novasco6960 2 года назад
Can't believe they did my boy Ragna like that. We need Jiyuna to make his own Tier List already to show everyone the REAL placements.
@zx3227
@zx3227 2 года назад
picked up blazblue recently been having a lot of fun would love to see more blazblue content
@unfairjarl
@unfairjarl 2 года назад
How's the game for beginner ? Not too hard to find matches ? I've recently started playing strive as my first fg, but this game has me interested
@zx3227
@zx3227 2 года назад
@@unfairjarl I playing on na east and I can find games with decent connection at any time of day. You gotta look in the player lobbies though
@unfairjarl
@unfairjarl 2 года назад
@@zx3227 gotta love rollback netcode
@khamissalhi3634
@khamissalhi3634 2 года назад
No wonder that Jin Looks down on Ragna and Noel!
@capefeather
@capefeather 2 года назад
I kind of stopped playing because I kept getting kicked out of match spectate rooms. I didn't like BBCF's implementation of free-for-all rooms; I heard something about those getting feature improvements, but I never really got around to finding out if they've been put on par with the free-for-all rooms in GGXXAC, KOF98UM/02UM, etc.
@YoshiSF
@YoshiSF 2 года назад
Mai has been the anti-meta character since her release. She used to have rough MUs vs common (albeit lower tier characters). Seeing those MUs get smoothed out and thus increasing her stock is great!
@ANIMEILLUMINATI
@ANIMEILLUMINATI 2 года назад
I can't stand that character.
@YoshiSF
@YoshiSF 2 года назад
@@ANIMEILLUMINATI your frustration only fuels the Mai engine
@ngkn2008able
@ngkn2008able 2 года назад
@@ANIMEILLUMINATI imma pick up Mai just because this comment.
@sinshenlong
@sinshenlong 2 года назад
I always wanted to learn naoto and bang so im inspired to learn them now
@Sorrelhas
@Sorrelhas 2 года назад
To what do you attribute these changes? Better netcode? New players? All of the above?
@Sailor639
@Sailor639 2 месяца назад
Jin being at the same level as Hazama is crazy.
@JohnnyTightlips2007
@JohnnyTightlips2007 2 года назад
I really wish they didn't split Nu-13 and Lambda-11 into two separate characters.
@Layazeroda
@Layazeroda 2 года назад
Ragna players walking out of the tier list factory rubbing their hands... Also man do you really like Stand Unrivaled. You have it playing on EVERY blazblue video.
@dr_gottwald8451
@dr_gottwald8451 2 года назад
Hurts to see my boi Terumi at the bottom, even if it is true. At least he has the meme potential at mentally damaging your opponent
@hiramjackson8322
@hiramjackson8322 2 года назад
yea just got back to playing and MAN does his neutral suck.
@SilentAndy
@SilentAndy Год назад
That comment about Susano'o players was super accurate! 🤦🏻‍♂️🤣💀
@KenBladehart
@KenBladehart 2 года назад
Personally, simple characters can take advantage of delay netcode But now, complex characters having that laser eye meme moment
@jorgeperez2872
@jorgeperez2872 11 месяцев назад
If the list doesn't have Izanami n1, followed by (in whatever order) Carl, Rachel, Arakune, Litchi and Es and maybe Izayoi, there's something sus.
@micahonline_
@micahonline_ 2 года назад
that Naoto placement gave me hope then I seen Ragna and that shit just went out the window lol
@Kinma15
@Kinma15 2 года назад
The assessment on many susano'o being bad/new makes sense cause I just steamroll most of them but the good one's are playing at least Ss+
@Tokaji1703
@Tokaji1703 2 года назад
We need more bbcf guides!!!
@furix
@furix 2 года назад
As someone who uses Mai, Celica, and Nine this seems about right. Mai carries me in match ups I get demolished when using Celica and Nine. Though I am also not good.
@HunterSteven1997
@HunterSteven1997 2 года назад
The weirdest placement for me is Hazama in S when almost every other list ever has considered him mid or low-mid and i don't remember him winning anything in the whole games lifespan. He doesnt have a good matchup spead against the top characters either except for arakune and maybe izamani.
@1qesem371
@1qesem371 Год назад
He’s got real solid oki options and high damage off of od since life steal doesn’t scale, also his movement in the air is comparable to valk or even arakune, he gets in and out really fast. I think the biggest thing is that one of the best haz players janson is really good at inflicting psychological damage w repeated resets instead of going for only the optimal stuff, when u don’t know when it’s gonna be your turn it’s easy to get schmixxed to death and haz has a lot of options that leave the opponent standing
@tubloid
@tubloid 2 года назад
Where can I see these Japanese tournaments that Jiyuna is mentioning? I'm really interested in seeing the Bang player that he talked about.
@coolmasterjg2450
@coolmasterjg2450 2 года назад
His name is Fukku, a japanese bang player I admire and he gives me advices and I be in his chat most of the time
@ANIMEILLUMINATI
@ANIMEILLUMINATI 2 года назад
They are older tournaments; the scene is not as active anymore.
@Splatter5524
@Splatter5524 2 года назад
Dont mind Terumi over there in Dying tier
@DSKBR556
@DSKBR556 2 года назад
bbcf is one of the best games of all time I wish I had played it instead of grinding these last years on T7.
@kokonoegrav
@kokonoegrav 2 года назад
These tierlists gettin funky, like wtf
@eduardoserpa1682
@eduardoserpa1682 2 года назад
I haven't had the time to play much of anything lately, but I've been itching to get back at BlazBlue for a few weeks. It might be time really soon.
@ANIMEILLUMINATI
@ANIMEILLUMINATI 2 года назад
Too many games for me to play.
@seansubulade831
@seansubulade831 2 года назад
I’m still hoping for the valkenhayn guide👀
@Discotechque
@Discotechque 2 года назад
The thing with japanese players is that they tend to forgo fundamentals and focus on specializations, cuz they expect you to be perfect in fundamentals. Just my two cents.
@thisisMYname223
@thisisMYname223 2 года назад
yes more blazblue content please!
@boredomkiller99
@boredomkiller99 2 года назад
List mostly looks good. Only thing I would change is move Ragna up at least one tier if not two tiers and put Noel, Celia and Terumi all in the same tier.
@Free_Hugz
@Free_Hugz 2 года назад
Honestly out of all the characters I would never be able to put into a list myself is Tager. He is one of those characters that has such a weird skill ceiling, just when you think you can place him somebody else comes along and makes you question your existence making you want to just lay down the whole match and never wake up
@harryvpn1462
@harryvpn1462 2 года назад
Finally, the ragna downplayers werent insane afterall
@kazueglassheardt7185
@kazueglassheardt7185 Год назад
Bullet being above d tier seems so wrong. Like besides having good damage I really dont see her having anything at all above other characters. And maybe I'm just bias as a celica player but she doesn't feel like a bottom 1 character to me at all
@OGamelon
@OGamelon 2 года назад
This fella really hearting every comment
@ANIMEILLUMINATI
@ANIMEILLUMINATI 2 года назад
I read everything.
@Charagodslayer666
@Charagodslayer666 2 года назад
And just noticed my wiafu mai is SS. Feels good ngl
@grayshadow2597
@grayshadow2597 Год назад
6 months and we are still waiting for tier list by jiyuna. Jiyuna, WHERE IS IT
@ANIMEILLUMINATI
@ANIMEILLUMINATI Год назад
I'll use it to save Panda.
@retrored
@retrored 2 года назад
You should look at the Combo Breaker GF for BBCF. Susano-o vs Lambda/Es
@ANIMEILLUMINATI
@ANIMEILLUMINATI 2 года назад
Watched it live, really good set.
@retrored
@retrored 2 года назад
@@ANIMEILLUMINATI Same here, I can't believe I was seeing a Susanoo in Grand finals even though I constantly say that he is a lot better than people think because almost every tournament I watched (I mainly watch American BB) has had a Susanoo in top 8.
@CommandThrow
@CommandThrow 2 года назад
Grinding Izanami
@griffintravis8506
@griffintravis8506 2 года назад
someone give me a link to this please. I need to send it to my friend that plays Es and Naoto
@m0ckyzo185
@m0ckyzo185 2 года назад
I'm just glad I main objectively low tier characters like Bullet and Terumi. Ain't no confusion regarding my difficulty getting in
@himuragoXD
@himuragoXD 2 года назад
Looks like a best matchups chart lol
@TheXYZStrain
@TheXYZStrain 2 года назад
Jiyuna please make an Amane guide. You're the only fgc content creator that remembers him
@CursedShinobiClown
@CursedShinobiClown 6 месяцев назад
Considering it was made by Japanese players that run Izayoi and Valk yeah no wonder they are so low compared to where they should be. They also seem to have gotten corner carried to death a lot against Lambda as she’s mid to high here as opposed to low… not that I’m complaining but her above Valk and next Izayoi is insane
@MattoCatYT
@MattoCatYT 2 года назад
I'm just happier to see the evolving opinions on Jubei as they've had many players in JP really coming into form with the character. Solid midtier
@mallow2902
@mallow2902 Год назад
Two of my favorite characters chilling at the very bottom lmao.
@KarmaSpaz12
@KarmaSpaz12 2 года назад
Imagine ASW take this list, the top 12 and make new BB with only those characters. Once again everyone is busted so no complaints.
@Mightfox
@Mightfox 9 месяцев назад
Does Ragna still do good against players who have godly defense like in that recent vid you posted?
@ANIMEILLUMINATI
@ANIMEILLUMINATI 9 месяцев назад
He’s solid, but yeah his mix is a weakness at the highest level. Just win neutral!
@Excailber_319
@Excailber_319 6 месяцев назад
Im glad my boy naoto made it up to ss
@MJSHappy
@MJSHappy 2 года назад
I'm pretty damn casual, and I don't watch every BB tournament, but it feels like whenever I watch one, there's a Susan, an Es, a Carl, and a Hazama
@YokaiSteve
@YokaiSteve 2 года назад
So I'm new to understanding Blazblue, but is this the type of game where no matter the tier any character can still put in work and look OP? Or is it where top tiers shadow the lower?
@luizsparda5847
@luizsparda5847 3 месяца назад
I'm Main Azrael and Tsubaki and I'm happy to see them in the same position but I also want to say that of all the fighting games I've ever played, BBCF is the only one where the easiest characters to play are the weakest and hardest ones are the strongest and that makes perfect sense, because little effort=minimum reward and great effort=high reward, this is one of the reasons why BBCF is my favorite Fighting Game, but Mai, Es and Susanoo are easy to play and are almost at the top, Ark System, where are you?
@Bobprotoss
@Bobprotoss 2 года назад
The way you describe people who play Susanoo is accurate. Izayoi and Nines on AA is a big cap.
@ANIMEILLUMINATI
@ANIMEILLUMINATI 2 года назад
Yeah, I thought they would be higher.
@flanwithaq2724
@flanwithaq2724 2 года назад
Do not tell me you just referenced that old D inferno divider video
@forte9910
@forte9910 2 года назад
I haven't been able to stop playing this game but don't tell jiyuna I play rachel
@hann8103
@hann8103 2 года назад
Both my main characters Relius and Bullet are holding hands in B, so I suppose I have to be happy for them. At least they're together.
@third-ratedude4234
@third-ratedude4234 2 года назад
Ragna In C? He have one of the best poke in the game, a godlike DP, Gauntlet Hades, and can dish out high damage combos easily, and he's in C tier?
@ANIMEILLUMINATI
@ANIMEILLUMINATI 2 года назад
Also has a ton of tournament wins.
@BurningRevoler
@BurningRevoler 2 года назад
I wanna learn this game do you think litchi is a good pick for a beginner or should I just go Jin
@ANIMEILLUMINATI
@ANIMEILLUMINATI 2 года назад
Start with Jin. He's really strong and well rounded.
@itmeran1485
@itmeran1485 2 года назад
The fact that Izayoi and Nine aren’t AA at least is wild
@japser8147
@japser8147 2 года назад
Definitely down for more blazblue stuff down the line
@Naota753
@Naota753 2 года назад
How much of this can be explained not only by downplaying but also match ups? Is Ranga particularly bad against Carl/Valk/Izayoi? I wanna see these guys do a match up chart next. Or maybe Kazunoko could go through it on his channel as well.
@gemiplus
@gemiplus 2 года назад
idk about the other two, but Carl-Ragna is pretty Carl favored.
@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz
@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz 2 года назад
I'd love to hear the logic for ragna and nu being lower than tager wtf.
@darandomdog
@darandomdog Год назад
As a Jubai/Jin main...we take those
@darknova7863
@darknova7863 2 года назад
Please make tier list your opinion super funny but educational
@darkraifan007
@darkraifan007 2 года назад
Ragna and Nine definitely need to go up
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