When the "Old Man" was revealed to be a computer, I immediately thought of the Futurama episode "Amazon Women in the Mood", where the Amazonians took all their orders from a Femputer. I guess the narratives differ though, since that episode was more of a "Wizard of Oz" story with the Femputer turning out to be a Fembot.
Another interesting aspect to consider is how technology is portrayed more positively here. So many other stories have implied that any reliance, let alone over-reliance, on a computer or technology in general, as opposed to nature, is a bad thing. Yet in this case, the computer, an “unnatural” man-made inanimate object, was what was keeping the people alive.
sometimes people think they're geniuses because they question everything, but doing so without looking at facts or logic makes them end up nothing more than deranged conspiracy theorists. this is one of many twilight zone episodes still relevant today.
Moral of the story: Don't destroy the super computer that's been the only thing keeping you alive for a decade. You'll be instantly wiped out, and the rest of the population won't last much longer.
What! An advanced super computer was giving us advice? I thought it was a disheveled, crazy, old man in the cave just making pronouncements. Now, I am angry and don’t trust the advice I’m given by the advanced supercomputer. Must smash!
@@trinaq it’s a well acted episode and I can accept the allegory but why were they angry? I get on a thematic level. But it’s weird they were willing to go along with following a weird “old man in the cave” then got angry at following the same advice from an advanced computer that might actually have innate abilities to answer those questions. Just always struck me as an odd twist.
@@BenOzzy To me, it's the underlying moral that lies, even in the name of good intentions, are still lies. The act of lying leads to certain destruction. If people cannot handle honesty, then they are not worth saving.
@@BenOzzy i think is the typical "they lied to me! even if it is for my safety, they lied! so everything they said is now meaningless" i have seen that in fiction A LOT. the writers usually value truth SO MUCH it is rare seeing stories where they recognizce that sometimes lies are necessary
I sometimes return to this episode. The themes of "The Old Man in the Cave" are very provocative and complex, feeling like an anti-thesis to that one short story I read years ago about the dangers of relying on superintelligent computers for guidance.
Had Goldsmith been honest with the townspeople that the "Old Man" Keeping them alive was a computer, then the tragic ending could have been entirely avoided. Then again, perhaps he realised how short sighted they were, and that lying was the only way they'd listen.
Or better yet, if the people didn't choose to side with some loud mouths who pulled into town, over siding with the guy who had been keeping them alive.
Not knowing any more about the episode, my guess is that computer was one used for the nuclear war. That would explain it being in a mountain behind a blast door. It would explain the secrecy and hostility around it. The computers ended civilization. Of course they just did what humans asked it to do, and when asked to keep people alive, it did that too.
Yes! Like Burgess Meredith, John Fiedler, Donald Pleasence and Bill Shallert, these guys never became major stars or had their own series, but they were the blue collar workhorses who kept the mill churning out great shows.
I knew I had seen him in the Twilight Zone episode "Of Late I Think of Cliffordville". He also appeared in Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho (1960) as used car salesman "California Charlie", who sells a car to Marion Crane (Janet Leigh).
In the early 1960s, a super computer would have seemed much more alien and disturbing than it would be to us today. So yes, seeing the mob from that era smash the computer after being lied to about it is an understandable response from them. Not a smart one, mind you, but it follows.
But then, it wasn't that bright to have perpetuated this lie for so long. Goldsmith's facade is not like God, as there is hard evidence of what this really is. He had many chances to tell the truth, especially when pressed about it, yet he kept spinning this myth.
This was the first episode of The Twilight Zone that really captured my attention. That twist, man! It made the information he got from the "old man" make sense.
I am convinced Mr.Goldsmith was actually god telling everyone not to eat the damn apple but as expected someone leads them astray and they all take a bite of that apple
I remember a similar thing happening in an episode of the 1990s "The Outer Limits" reboot. A group of people had been imprisoned by alien invaders. They escaped and found a tree with fruit growing on it. The ersatz leader advised against eating it since they'd heard the plants had become highly toxic. One brash guy ignored her and convinced others to join him in eating the fruit. Shortly after, everyone who ate the fruit got sick and died.
In some ways, Goldsmith is a foil for Bensteen in "On Thursday We Leave For Home." Both are leaders of a group of survivors. Both create rules that the others follow but also act like father figures. Both also argue with outsiders who question their authority and get the people to their side. But the difference is in the message and the outcome. "On Thursday," they were being led to embrace life whereas here they are being asked yo face death. It shows the extremes that while structure can be confining, too much liberation without any sort of restraint can be just as bad if not worse. The comparison shows that no one way is the same for everyone and for every circumstance. Sometimes context and specific examples should be measured and weighed before deciding the outcome.
The people turned on the man who told them "No" with good reason and in good faith for the man who told them "Yes" for no reason and in exchange for obedience!
The twist is a double edged sword here. Its perfectly reasonable to believe a super computer is the cause of the wars and suffering yet in this case, it kept everyone safe in this harsh reality. Its like the "liar revealed" trope. Sure he lied but it still helped everyone.
I don't know why a nebulous old man living in a cave nobody has ever seen is more trustworthy than a super computer though. None of this makes any sense.
@@aeon87 I think if this episode dropped the deception angle and the soldiers were challenging the authority of the computer. To me it seems like the man was just fucking with the townspeople for no reason
@@jackbrennan1125This was the 1960s. The concept of a computer was very new. Not only do I think people would question whether a machine would have their best interest at heart (as it does not have one) but also whether it could. What did a "computer" mean to people back then? Let alone a "super computer"? It's easy for us to talk of it now as we trust our lives even with the likes of Google, weather forecasts, etc. Found in portable devices everyone uses. It's familiar. To these people, the idea of a wise or deity like person seems to mean that at least the source of information is coming from a human or actual living creature. As they take small, desperate steps and leaps of faith, their confidence increases as they're the only living settlement. Compound that for a decade, and your confidence grows stronger and stronger. Basically, it's a time period thing in my opinion. The whole series often explores the idea of whether humans can trust or see robots, machines, like real people. These concepts were more science fiction than reality back then.
I was saying just the other day that Slesar is one of the most under-appreciated writers of the mid-20th century. He influenced pop culture at myriad points, including in his scripts for Alfred Hitchcock Presents (he also wrote hundreds of stories in every area of genre fiction, dozens of CBS radio plays and was the head writer on *three* different soap operas), and yet you can’t buy a single one of his short story collections from even a small press these days.
Goldsmith is actually an alien. In the 24th century, he moves to the Federation colony Delta Rana IV. Which is where he crosses paths with Captain Jean-Luc Picard and the USS Enterprise crew.
I sometimes think the twist is going to be a crossover. Like the man in the cave being the same guy that was left behind by his community in another episode (even though it makes no sense).
I saw this episode for the first time last week, and was struck by how closely it mirrors the Biblical tale of the Garden of Eden. Anderson tells the few people what food not to eat, lest they die. Major French is the Serpent, telling the people to ignore the advice of a supposedly fictitious higher authority, after which the people are expelled from Paradise. (In this case, that means death.) This was basically copied for the Star Trek episode "The Apple," right down to a military officer destroying the computer in the cave. (Kirk's story admittedly has a happier ending.)
@@TheNotverysocial There was "hard evidence" in the story of Eden because God was an actual being that talked to Adam and Eve. They would have had no reason to doubt anything that God had told them, just like the villagers in this episode had no reason to doubt the "Old Man in the Cave" since his predictions were always right. Their turning against the computer was an emotional, irrational act, just like Adam and Eve turning against the being that created them or modern day people turning against law and wisdom to embrace destructive things like addiction. The only thing "spinning a myth" did in the TZ story was keep the villagers alive because without faith, they never would have trusted the computer since they had irrational beliefs about technology.
I feel that this is one of those TZ episodes with no villain. The people were desperate and had been denied most pleasures for years, so it's understandable that they would crack and disobey orders so they could enjoy themselves. Major French sounds like someone who could have been a hero if the "old man" in the Cave had actually manipulated and enslaved the people for its own interests. (Star Trek had many episodes where Kirk or Picard would liberate a trapped population from an evil AI or tyrannical being.) Goldsmith seems morally ambiguous because he lied to the people under his care, but it's was done with good intentions; technology had doomed the planet after all and computers were probably viewed with suspicion. I feel the bad ending of this episode was brought on because people HAD to rely on faith to get by, and it's human nature to discard faith if (a) you can't see the logic or reasoning behind it and (b) an alternative path opens that promises you a better, easier life.
What makes this episode hit so hard is that it unknowing predicted the recent trend of rejecting science and reasoning. How manipulative idiots who seek influence and political power will call upon people to reject proven scientific authority for the sake of "freedom", and in doing so not only put their own lives at risk but at the risk of so many others.
I think this episode would be massively helped if everyone knew it was a computer straight from the start and that was what the soldiers were attacking and questioning. Making it some mystical old man invites people to be highly skeptical of it and there was really no reason for the deception in universe. I like the idea of what you just laid out but that's not what the episode is about. The episode is about trusting authority implicitly with absolute faith and never questioning anything even if it's impossible nonsense.
I've long felt this episode could almost be a companion piece to 1989's Casualties of War. Although the stories are markedly different; they share several plot points: an authority figure out of his depth who resorts to force and violence and calls it authority; a lone voice of reason trying to protect something but ,ultimately, has to witness its abuse and demise while he looks on helplessly, and a group of people blindly following the one they perceive as being the most powerful, even though logic, and morals, may dictate otherwise. Add to these an air of hopelessness, the contant threat of violence and, at times, nihilism and the thread, however thin, connects. For me, at least.
I made a account * technically from one of those age restricted episodes* just to say this, please do the later series even though theyre bad you make these episodes a bit more fun and also ive been watching since the 2nd one came out!
Soo, just read about Julian James, the bicameral mind, and the Delphic Oracle...not the first time...and I couldn't wait to watch Twilight Zone as a kid-Rod Serling the Oracle, this episode autobiographical!😄
Interesting comparison of this episode with 'On Thursday We Leave For Home.' I also thought of 'The Gift' where the townspeople again made the wrong choice by killing the alien and destroying what would have been a cure for cancer.
Great episode! In my opinion, there’s a very thin line between having Blind Faith and being a Zealot. The society in this episode were always doomed to eventually fall, but French’s influence accelerated the inevitable
I figured out immediately that the Old Man was just a computer. Knowing about crops is one thing, but being able to predict the weather was a dead give away. This episode has aged well. We see this sort of thing happening even today. New comers are allowed into a space where things are fine, but then those new comers force their dominance and ruin everything because of their selfishness and ignorance. We see this in fandoms, businesses, sports, media production, politics, social movements, etc.
Could you please do these as part of FanScription • What if Disney’s Cinderella didn’t make it to the ball (Disney’s Cinderella 1950movie) • What if Bambi's Mother survived (Disney’s Bambi) • What if Flik and Atta had children (A Bug's Life 2) • The Incredibles vs The Sinister Six (Doctor Octopus, Electro, Kraven the Hunter, Mysterio, Sandman and Vulture) • What if DreamWorks’s Rise of the Guardians 2 happened? • What if Disney’s Tarzan and friends found an unground world with dinosaurs and a lost civilization of people who mistake Jane as a Goddess (Disney’s Tarzan 2) • What if Elsa was the main villain of Disney’s Frozen • Batman vs The Green Goblin • Spider-man vs The Joker • What if The Evil Queen (from Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs 1937movie) had won? • What if Ridley Scott directed Alien 3
Another thing that makes James Coburn right for the role is that no one was better at playing "roguish" characters that you also like. So no wonder French wins everyone over. When it comes to weird things, John Anderson is also great in the OUTER LIMITS episode "Nightmare" (though he's under a huge amount of make-up as the space creature).
When I watched it growing up I just figured that Mr.Goldsmith must have been someone that worked on the project to build Old Man. Might have just been the one IT guy that survived and only knew how to feed it data also.
This could almost be a story from a Fallout game. A bunch of survivors in a nuclear wasteland surviving through the advise of a computer they believe to be a sage or a god or something.
To me whether Goldsmith should have lied or not doesn't matter. The point of the story is to trust a leader based on their actions, not because they tell you what you want to hear. The computer had been right on every prediction and bit of advice it gave for over a decade and the town thrived because of it. French is a stranger in town. He's a bully and a despot but people listen to him because he gives them license to ignore their logic and embrace their darker desires and they all pay the price. There's a lesson in that that still holds true even in our era. Someone who cares about you won't tell you what you want to hear. They tell you what you need to hear. I saw no themes of blind faith in this episode. The Old Man never asked them to take his advice without proof. They had all the evidence they needed. If anything having faith with no logic behind it was actually what got them all killed.
I personally think that this episode needed one more thing to truly make it work perfectly. They should have revealed that the war was started because people trusted machines. That they put too much faith into them. This would explain why the soldiers are willing to destroy the supercomputer and why the supercomputers presence was hidden. But then have the elder state that it was not the machines that did it it was humanity trusting them so much that they didn't think for themselves. Commenting that he never forced anyone to obey the machine he merely relayed what it said. Pointing out that he allowed them to do the farming how they did and it turned out it was a mistake. But also have it that he comments that it never told them who they need to marry or the like. It's all about balance. But the people don't believe him and do not trust the machine and as such die
I always wondered if the last man standing was an alien. His monologue at the end feels so dissociative, like he isn't a part of mankind himself. That would explain how he kept the computer running for a decade in a post-apocalyptic world, too. This whole episode really makes you think. For ten whole years, these people were relying on the "old man" to guide and protect them without ever seeing him or even hearing his voice, and they trusted it blindly. It's a perfect allegory for religion, making the viewer question their own faith and beliefs a little.
Lots of people are calling for you to do 'Night Gallery' and I would totally watch that. But it might require some culling as there were some real stink-a-roonies in NG. Maybe a 'best of' NG? Just an idea.
The first thing that came to my mind when I saw this episode was, was it the computer that helped start the war and one of the reasons they don't trust it.
