The Portrait of a Broken Automotive Industry 

As a master certified automotive technician I can attest to the ever increasing complexity of the car. There is also a shift happening in the automotive technician and repair industry. The kind of person who wants to repair cars professionally isn't the same kind of person it used to be. A lot of technicians are getting aged out. Many aren't keeping up with the technologies being implemented. The diagnostic fees are going up. The percentage of erroneous diagnoses is going up. It's getting more and more difficult to diagnose cars to a point where the inevitability of getting it wrong is going up. Situations that I've dealt with like a BMW that had faulty wheel speed sensors which caused the power windows to be inoperable. And so young people aren't interested in working on cars anymore. Most people don't realize that technicians have to buy their own tools. And if you expect to diagnose cars, which becoming more and more what working on cars is, you have to have scantools. Fully compatible scantools are in the 2k to 5k range. And no one scantool does everything the best. So more often than not you have to have multiple scantools in order to cover all makes. So in scantools alone one could spend 10k easily. In my 18 years I've easily spent hundreds of thousands in tools. The relation is that as cars keep getting more and more complicated so do the tools required to work on them. Every manufacturer now has a special set of tools to do timing chains now. This same issue is happening in housing. All apartments are continuously raising the rent. At some point you'll price out all the tenants. And the people that can afford the apartment can afford to buy a house. So why would they rent? All these industries are getting way out of control.

Appreciate that Mark showed love to us common folk by ditching the Patagonia for his best Kirkland Signature sweater. A man of the people.

I'm in my 60s, and I retired a few months before the pandemic. I've been a car enthusiast since before I had my driver's license. My post-retirement plan was to buy a fun, somewhat aspirational car that my wife and I would enjoy while we're still young enough to take road trips. Shopping has proven frustrating for many of the reasons you outlined, so much so that it seems we'll be keeping our 2011 minivan and 2012 hot hatch for the foreseeable future. Dealer behavior has just about killed the last of my automobile enthusiasm.

I’m in the tractor business with a fairly large OEM. As a field service rep I can see most all of these same issues happening in the tractor market. Prices have skyrocketed, and product being on allocation is killing the mom and pop dealers that made our business what it is today. It’s almost as though the OEM’s knew all this was coming, as we were getting pushed before the pandemic to squeeze dealers on their facilities. On my side of the business, it was all about how hard can we squeeze a Dealer to make money on the service side. I have said for many years now that the government will be legislating the internal combustion engine out of existence, and here we are. As the AG industry tries to go electric, its becoming a train wreck. No one wants to be left in the middle of their field or property with a dead battery and virtually no way to charge it. Let alone the complexity that comes with this tech. There’s wholes teams of people that develop this tech, yet the OEM’s expect one or two people at a Dealer to be capable of repairing it. This really is a sad state of affairs as we get to watch our passion, and livelihood disappear in real time.

As a 20 year old college student, it’s scary how expensive everything is getting. Tuition, housing, healthcare, cars etc, the dream my immigrant parents had when coming here is going farther away from reality, and it’s extremely disappointing

I have worked as a technician for several dealerships. The similarity they share is the constant need to get bigger, sell cars, and always reminding their employees they are losing money. All the time. Yet the owner, who inherited the business from his father, shows off his $3million car he just bought on instagram. They quite often offer no substantial guaranteed wage. One day when you leave due to a commission pay plan that has withered due to economic and supply chain machinations far beyond your control they begin to gripe about how no one wants to work anymore. Also they are losing more money. Then buy 4 more small dealers whose founder died and the kids want to cash out.

You nailed it. I’ve always been a “car guy”, and finally landed a good job in my early 30s. Can’t afford a house, can’t afford a fun new car, don’t want what they’re calling “economy cars” (expensive junk with complicated components designed to fail and only be supported by the dealer). Guess I’ll keep driving my 22 year old beater with well over 250k miles because it’s paid off and I can keep it running myself.

20 year old college student who is looking to buy my first car. When FL5 came out I was so excited as a die hard Honda / Toyota fan. I told myself I would have nothing else but that car. Then MSRP dropped. I'm a mechanical engineering major so I told myself 43k is not impossible, I just need to graduate early, find a good job, work for a year or two and I can have my FL5. Then I started to see all the markups. Frankly, they destroyed my dream of owning a brand new Type R. So, I started looking elsewhere. FK8? Value holds strong at 35-40k, with a lot of miles and abuses going into them. GR86? Either pay markup or wait for a whole year and compete with 50 other people on the list to buy it. BRZ? Same story as GR86. GR Corolla? Same story and even rarer than all cars mentioned above. Ok then what about Civic Si / new Integra? New ones are not exciting at all yet still sits around 30k. Old ones are nearly 22k out of the door of dealers, and conditions are not even good. Not worth it I guess. WRX? I hate the new one, and the old ones are still 25-30k (same story goes to old 86/BRZ/FRS), with an engine, at that mileage and abuse level, basically sitting in the car as a time bomb. I was left with NO options at all. What in the world is going on in this market? My family is fairly well off and I don't pay student loans, yet even my family can't really make purchase decisions now just because of the sheer absurdity going on. That enthusiast living inside me is dying. Now I only look at sub 15k old cars because anything beyond that seems to be a ripoff.

As a ex car salesman, these dealerships and the management working in them are the most slimy and scummy people I’ve met, they look at people as nothing more than a check

As a retired engineer, car nut and Jr economist you nailed it. My daughter has no interest in owning a car or getting a drivers license. Cars will be like phones. I could not agree more with this. I was ready to replace our Honda Odyssey with a another one and also get a Subaru BRZ for myself. Trying to buy a couple of new cars this summer was a waste of time so I put a new belt and water pump on the Honda and going to keep it another 5-8 years. I am refurbishing my old Lotus 7 and my Alfa Romeo GTV 6- 3.0 . I am taking the family on some nice trips instead of buying new cars.

As a software developer I really appreciate you connecting the automotive industry to the mobile market. It hit me like a brick when you made that connection.

A few weeks ago, some people were telling me to get rid of my BRZ. Asking me why i would hang onto. These people were fellow enthusiasts, but they're in the mindset of buying and selling constantly. This video perfectly puts into words why I would rather hang onto it as opposed to ditching it for something else

My Wife's grandfather and uncle ran a great CDRJ dealership in rural Texas. It was the typical Mom and Pop dealership older viewers might remember from decades ago. The employees were treated like family. When her grandfather died, we were in the limo behind the hearse and went past the dealership. Every single employee who was working stood somberly outside to pay respect to the man who started the business that puts food on their table. It was one of the most touching things I have seen in my life. Fast forward a few years, and that dealership was bought out by a chain of dealerships. Almost all of those dedicated employees got pink slipped and replaced with high pressure sales and finance people. It's just a damn shame. Personally, I'm driving a 2010 car. Parts are available, and the suspension is endlessly rebuildable and upgradable. Steering is hydraulic and effort builds in the most satisfying way. I got a new loaner when I took it in for the airbag recall. I could not wait to get my car back. The new car was faster, but soulless. I'm going to keep this one until it's either a pile of rust, or illegal to drive.

The real issue: cars are a necessity in North America, whereas they are optional in most of the rest of the world. When you make cars a necessity, "practicality" rules, the average person dictates what is important, and any issues associated with vehicles (like financing, or fuel economy) are amplified and carry a higher societal burden. In Europe, sports cars and cheap economy cars are still alive because owning a car is often a choice or born out of unique circumstances. If a car is no longer a necessity, you can buy a car that's compromised, like most enthusiast vehicles. Likewise, if you have access to all your needs by foot at home, but commute to work, you can buy a Volkswagen Golf and have a fun car that gets 40 mpg on the highway, but carves up back roads on the weekend. You no longer need a massive car that can haul two adults, some kids, and all your crap. To participate in the American economy and lifestyle, you are required to have a car or you won't get far (literally). GM and other car manufacturers ensured we HAD to drive cars decades ago by giving busses to cities in exchange for them tearing out fantastic public transportation. When that public transportation was no longer an option, cars became increasingly necessary for average people, and in time, just felt like the natural choice for personal transportation, but it isn't. That feeling was manufactured. Until we make cars optional in North America, we will be left with horrible, soulless, SUV crossovers, that have terrible drivetrains because they need to meet insane emissions goals and family needs due to our outsized reliance on cars as daily transportation. The moment cars are no longer required for our daily lives, we will start to see cheaper cars (less pricing power over average people) and more enthusiast vehicles (since they will represent a higher percentage of car buyers).

When I bought my Alfa GTV in 1975 (as a college graduation present to myself), I could never imagine that I'd still be driving it at essentially the end of the automobile. It currently has 648,000 miles on it (over a million km) and I just spent ~$15K having the powertrain rebuilt so I'm good for a bunch more.

It's nice to hear someone talk about how insanely unaffordable and unappealing car ownership has become for most people. I like track tests and road trip docs as much as the next person, but frankly it feels detached from reality.

I think the late 80's to early 2000s was the sweet spot for automotive engineering and outward style, and reasonable tech of cars with still some simplicity left in the equation

I’m in Texas. Cars are a way of life by force. If you can’t drive, you can’t get to work or the grocery store. A lot of younger people are advocating public transit more so than whatever car is coming out

As a guy that studies automotive engineering, I can tell you one thing: everyone knows that car industry is dying. And its not just dying, its getting murdered by incompetent politicians and incompetent CEOs. Everyone knows it, teachers talk about it, and Im just wondering if the industry in which Im getting my degree is even gonna be here once I get my degree.

Thanks for a very intriguing perspective. I live in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Here are two stories of our experience as we try to buy a BEV/HEV/PHEV. We ordered a Tuscon HEV in January 2022 and we were told it would take six months to get one. We checked in monthly (the dealer NEVER contacted us) and kept getting told that "production should begin soon". This past week, we got fed up with waiting and bought a 2023 Tiguan SEL. We phoned the Hyundai dealer to cancel the order. 5 minutes later the sales manager phones and says "You'll never believe this but we just received your car last night!". You're right - we don't believe it. Before we bought the Tiguan we went by the Toyota dealer. They had 4 2021 RAV4 Prime's in stock. The average price was $CDN70,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I heard a dealership owner explain to me how it's so bad that he "has to wait an extra long time to get his fully loaded f350 truck" the one he buys new every year. Just after he told me there is an ADM on a transit passenger van I needed for my business. I've held out as long as I can and will buy private party now for the rest of my life. That's how gutted and upset I am at "most" dealers

The Volvo in the background is a great touch. What an example of a company that went from simple, reliable transportation to overcomplicated tech boxes.

As a car enthusiast whose excitement is ever-dulling by rising new and used car prices, it appears the writing is on the wall for the car industry. You nailed it w.r.t. worries, and the tendency of the customer to be screwed by car manufacturers' and dealers' natural responses to market conditions. The automotive industry had its heyday, and if car enthusiasm is to survive it will be relegated to owners who preserve their aging classics, and pay-per-experience managed driving experiences. The constraints the industry faces of energy cost (fuel price, manufacturing costs) and ecological concerns will push the ownership cost of well-built exciting cars out of reach, and drive driver-first design into extinction for all but the most expensive garage-queen collector pieces. Pricvey tech-first, engagement last electric cars will be the prevailing standard. Hopefully the younger generation's lack of car enthusiasm of can be channeled into support for public transit and prevent the seemingly inevitable carmageddon of congested roads in the US, such that when those of us who do enjoy driving our then-classic beaters want to go for a drive it won't suck.

This vid earned you a like and sub from a 31 year car industry veteran. I've always been on the service side, 4 years in new cars, the rest of the time working for indies, operating my own garage, or until the pandemic, teaching. Now relaxed into a sm/gm position with a top tier Porsche outfit. New cars and new car prices are absolutely bananas. I've only bought 1 new car my entire life: an oddly spec'd out Caravan for the ex that sat for 11 months on the lot. Got for $4K under invoice. I will always own several nice 10+ y/o cars and trucks from now going forward. The age of my fleet grows older by the year. I sell one of my well maintained rides only after I've secured its replacement. Lower miles, higher spec trim, older or newer, only if it's an upgrade. There's a reason the roads are crawling with new Kias, Hyundais, and garbage tier base model GMs when it comes to new product. It's all the majority can afford.

A dealership I used to be a technician for raised the price of a vehicle I took home overnight for a test drive while I had it. I was like dang what are y'all doing to the customers then, if you're gonna do this to an employee. Salesman was like well we got a bunch of leads for it online so we raised the price, sorry. Luckily I took a screenshot of the listing from the website the day prior, and used the presidents open door policy and angrily complained about it.

So happy you talked about this, been sitting here like “how are people paying 40k for a Corolla and don’t care”

Yep, 100% agree with this. The car market is completely trashed right now. I’m never buying a new car again. As an enthusiast I’m looking more into the used market to find something that still has emotion when driven. And yes, I’m watching a ton of your old videos for recommendations 😂

Great piece Mark. You covered all the bases in this perfect ($h3t) storm of the car industry. Not sure what can be done to pull out of this. The cars have become all about the "tech" and touchscreens too. 30 years ago, it was a competition to see who could come up with the best ergonomics. Easy to understand controls that fell readily to hand without distracting the driver. It is illegal to use your phone and drive, yet we've moved the phone screen to the cars video display. Too much time staring at screens to perform simple functions. Then to compensate the cars all have to come with lane keeping, blind spot monitoring, and automatic braking. I don't even know how Tesla controls are legal (given that you can't use your phone). Scrolling through a menu to adjust your HVAC or wipers? Completely stupid. Arguing that it makes the car "simpler" and "cheaper", but the cars are neither.

Omg. Thank you so so much for verbalising what I was grappling with emotionally for the past month when car shopping. I couldn't put a finger on why I was feeling like this, many sleepless nights! For the last month I've been wondering why I was hating the process, hating the mundane microwaves on wheels, hating the subscription service, hating the fake smiles and coffee offers, hating paying $3K for audio upgrade knowing I could build one way better for $1k. I hate everything about the current car market and the cost just rubs salt in the wounds. I actually walked away from Audi when trying to trade in my A1 because the experience left such a bad taste in my mouth. I just want to buy an old piece of metal that works but which I actually love. I can fix the sound, someone qualified can fix the engine. I can own and love it forever. I can't thank you enough for validating my feelings.

If you think being 18 - 25 and buying a car is rough, try being 25 - 30 and buying a house. You'd have to had your entire life, lain out in front of you in order to be in a position to afford a house. Then you have to fight with people fleeing their old states with money to blow AND people who buy homes just to rent them out. I'm none of those three and it's only getting harder.

i was a former automotive tech for hyundai and the dealers don't care about you. all they want is money and it sickens me to see this be normal. i really wish that they would take it more seriously because the number of techs are dropping. i remember in high school there was a shortage of techs by 500k. now its 640k. i personally know of like 8 techs leaving due to how toxic it has been. the turn over rate is unreal. im moving on to an other charter - career. i lost everything through this experience.

The current state of the automotive industry is just unsustainable long term. We were in the market for a Toyota Highlander, and it’s just impossible to find dealerships who are not marking up their vehicles, gouging with dealer installed options etc. In the end, we bought a 2010 Lexus GX 460, with 150k miles for $13k, as the car payment on the highlander was approaching what we pay on our mortgage.

I tried to buy a GR86 at MSRP (hard requirement) for around 8 or 9 months; I had two deposits in that never came to fruition so I refunded a couple days ago - I was also met with most dealerships either blatantly charging markups or doing hidden markups like $2000 paint insurance. I ended up buying a used 2009 Honda Civic SI because I got so frustrated. It is so difficult to be a young automotive enthusiast and be excited about the future of new cars when this is the current reality. Thanks for making this video, all the points are exactly what I've been feeling as I'm sure others have as well.

As someone in that 18-25 range who has always liked cars and enjoys driving, it's crushing to see where the car industry has been going. Even if I have the money when I get older, I'll never throw it away on a new car. The issue is that you also see 8k rust bucket Miatas all over marketplace these days. I've wanted one for a long time but I think the semi recent hype for them in my age group killed any hope I had in getting one while I still have my college years to mess around.

You're exactly describing the tragedy of the Focus RS. The 2016 RS was just coming out when I bought my most recent daily driver and the RS would have been the perfect car for me. It was sporty and fun but practical and really scratched that itch for someone like me. And even though I was a 29 year old software engineer that owned a house, there was exactly 0% chance they were going to let me test drive that car. They barely let me look at it from a respectable distance. The thing is, no other market for that car really existed. It wasn't a speed and style icon like the corvette that they can sell to a 50 year old career man, it wasn't luxurious like a Cadillac CTS that they can sell to the luxury commuter, and it didn't have the flashy brand recognition of a BMW or Porsche. They basically built a WRX STi competitor but refused to sell it to the WRX market. Then after 3 model years they cancelled it due to low sales numbers. I never even got to drive one, but now I still own that same daily and I've got a sporty RWD I got on the used market for my fun driving.

What you've called out is something that's been giving me trepidation with EV cars. With EVs essentially being laptops on wheels, it scares the hell out of me to think about the possibility of buying an expensive EV and it being fully obsoleted within a few years. Internal combustion cars experience this to a lesser degree with their infotainment and safety systems, but an engine, at the end of the day, is still an engine, functioning the same way it has for a century. When I buy a laptop, though, it turns into a slow, plastic brick after 3 years when software has been updated and no longer runs on aging hardware. I couldn't imagine buying something like a Taycan S for $200K+, only for its battery tech and charging mechanism to be outdated within a year or two. Cars are quickly approaching the same level of disposability as cell phones.

As a 21 y/o college student graduating in the spring with a Econ degree, this video hit home. As someone who is passionate about the auto industry, and as someone who is searching for a career within it, it’s hard not to notice how unstable it’s future looks. Of course there will always be people with money, or people who foolishly finance something outside their means, but undoubtedly it has become much harder to find a new vehicle. I appreciate the amount of thought that went into this video and would like to see more like it!

The smartphone analogy is a good one. In the earlier years of smartphones they continuously got major upgrades every year. Now you have to go back through 4 years of smartphone generations to find any major differences. Aside from infotainment tech what's really improved in ICE cars in the past 7 years? Taking out a 45k loan to get a 1-inch bigger screen when the car you own is paid off and works fine sounds utterly insane.

Thank you for sitting down to share this. I've been a car/truck enthusiast my entire life. In recent years, I've turned to motorcycles for my high-performace outlet because cars are so expensive. Racing a $7k supermoto is much more achievable on a reasonable budget over having fun-driving car to take to the track or even having a purpose built race car.

Always great commentary Mark and your right on point if this continues the industry could collapse and for future generations things look very dire and as a car fanatic it really sucks and sad, I miss the good old days pre-covid. Great channel, you and Jack are true gear heads. Big fan from Louisiana.

I love when Mark has a heart to heart with the audience and speaks the truth!

This is Magical - I was one of those kids who has always been a car enthusiast. Now that I have established myself professionally, and in a position to think of my first car. The car market and prices are so messed up, I decided to move to a walkable city like Victoria, Canada, where everything is within walking distance, and the only mortgage I should ever worry about is a house, not a damn car.

Mark is so good. I found his channel when I finally made it to point I could get a modest weekend car. I wish guys like this could make the money they deserve but big props for him and jack always keeping it real. It means a lot and in time in business that pays off

This is one of the most astute videos I have seen in years. The sheer level of understanding from all angles is incredible and wildly refreshing. I cannot say enough about how well this is done.

Every point you touched on is 💯 fact. The enthusiast is being hung out as a owned commodity with new “exciting” vehicles being released. If you can’t pay in extreme excess, you can’t play. “You’ll own nothing and be happy”. -Klaus Schwab, World Economic Forum.

I'm still driving a 2005 truck because a couple years ago my wife and I had to purchase a new vehicle to replace hers and the experience with the dealership was so terribad that I just want to drive my truck into the ground. I even contemplated not replacing it when it dies and trying to make due with one vehicle. The costs of vehicles is becoming ridiculous, the dealership add-ons are ridiculous and now they want subscription fees so that you can get access to all your vehicles features. It's insane and I just want nothing to do with it.

Im 23 and I love driving, but I am in no way able to afford anything from the last 10 years that would be considered "sporty" I see more and more of my friends going car free in their lives. Its getting to the point where nobody in my generation is going to even want to have cars anymore and a lot of it has to do with how frustrating and expensive buying a car is, even on the used market. If the car industry wants to continue existing in any capacity there needs to be major change

your points basically sum up the thoughts I've been having lately. I'm a member of the new generation of car buyers. I'm a pretty new dealer tech and I'm finally trying to work towards a nice engaging car to drive. I just cannot afford anything without going into crazy debt and its only getting worse. not to mention the fear of the government just legislating the ICE to death in the coming years. Cars are my passion and it feels like I'm in a race against the clock that I just cant win.

I think the most amazing thing to me, is that people are willing to make $1000 per month payments for a car. That was my mortgage payment when I paid on my house, and I could live in it for the rest of my life.

The middle man, in literally everything imaginable, is always the bane of whatever industry they insert themselves into. Also: videos like this are why y’all are the best channel, hands down.

I was working as a tech for BMW when I retired from the automotive industry. Almost nobody that came at the dealership cared about their cars. Bald tires, shaking brakes, cracked windshield, burnt bulbs, check engine light On..... All they wanted was their stupid Bluetooth and parking sensor to work perfectly. Most people are dumb, this is why the auto industry succeed and survive. People are proud of overpaying, makes them feel rich. I'll tell you what. In 2019, me and my wife bought 2 brand new MK7 golf (last time I buy a new car), Manual, no options, basic wheels, no sunroof, nothing. The salesman was almost pissed, and trying to convince us that we wanted a car with more options. I now work for National Defense vehicle tech, as a civilian employee.

Great video Mark! I left the auto industry in November 2021 after 14.5 years as a master technician. You briefly touched on the service side of the dealership but that is also a large, failing portion of the auto industry that needs a huge revamp. The bottom line is vehicles are cheaper in quality and more complex in technology which leads to more problems and repairs. All of this and flat rate technicians get the shit end of the stick with horrible warranty times for repairs.

Adding to your Canada comment, dealers sell new cars to their sister stores when brand new and then list the "used" car over MSRP.

This video puts words on my thoughts. I’m a huge car guy since I was in kindergarten. My parents showed me how to read on car reviews. My life goes around anything related to cars. I’m now in college and I don’t know how and if I’m going to be able to buy a new car in the future. A little, reliable and inexpensive analog car. Seeing what’s happening in the car industry, this just totally shatters my passion, my soul. Thank’s a lot for your thoughts about this subject, it’s quite comforting.

Mark, thanks for putting all my thoughts into a concise, cohesive video. I'm retired, and in my 60's, and have always loved cars. The cars today are overcomplicated, loaded with unnecessary tech, and just ridiculously expensive. Part of the problem is the consumer, too. They demand all the latest tech, so they can impress thier friends, and neighbors. Then, in order for them to do that, some of them will sign on the dotted line, no matter what the cost. In my opinion, that's a big part of the problem too. The dealers are gouging any way they can, and some people are just following along. I wanted a "fun" car to drive on the weekends, but with the way the used car market is now, and insurance just went up 25% in my state, and slated to go up another 16% next year, I'm really having second thoughts. You are 100% on the mark, though, the industry is truly broken, and they are too blind to see that they are pricing themselves out of existence. I see the old classic cars of the 60's and 70's now, that I always wanted, as dinosaurs, and if the industry keeps going the way it is, no one will interested in them anymore either. I myself am just not interested in a car as a hobby anymore. Too expensive, and too much hassle, in so many ways. Oh, and the new cars?? What's to be excited about? They all look the same, or you can have your "flavor of the week" SUV in any size, or style you want. Sigh.

The “stealership” model has to end. I sold cars for 2 years after leaving the Army while attending college. The biggest scumbags I’ve ever met in my life worked there. They took pride in “ripping a customers head off”, on the used car side especially. Meaning, they didn’t list prices on the cars and would only quote after a credit check. You got a quote based on what they assumed you could pay… Get rid of the dealerships all together, eliminate the scumbag middlemen, and allow direct to consumer. If the auto industry doesn’t correct itself, consumers will ultimately lose the tiny bit of confidence in the industry that remains, and the industry will lose. Let’s hope the government doesn’t dare bail them out again. What is happening now is spit in the face of everyone who remembers that taxpayers are 100% the only reason the automakers are still in business.

Thanks for taking the time to make this particular video. This conversation needs to be more widespread among the RU-vidrs.

Mark really gets it. I'm just glad you guys have found a way to make me watch automotive content, in a day where I hate just about every new offering on the market.

Watching this episode from a bankrupt country across the pod i have to say that you literally nailed it! That's exactly what we car enthusiasts should be discussing & pushing for the proper initiatives if we don't want to end up in dystopian Matrix societies!

I appreciate the holistic view you have. I was involved in Small Damage Repair business ( paint touch ups) back in the 90's and again in the 2000's in Canada. Back in high school, we drove 60's and 70's rotting out muscle cars as our first rides. Everyone who had one had to learn to pull wrenches to afford to drive. Not so today. Unless you're running a vehicle through your business and writing it off, they're getting out of reach. The tech is not like an old carbureted or early fuel injection system, they're actually run with more computing power than the rockets that took the first astronauts to the moon. If you have credit, you can debt slave yourself to a ride. We saw policy outpace innovation in the emissions on vehicles in the 70's then heavy trucks in the 2000's. Each time, the tech didn't exist and the increased cost due to unreliability and experimentation was passed on to the consumer. I have a really difficult time justifying buying a new car, especially with the supply chain and manufacturing issues now. Dealerships are full everywhere within 500 miles of me and yet, I am spoiled for choice, but at high prices. I can remember the conversations with customers about non moving stock and I can only imagine the talk going on now in the offices and showrooms. Not going to be a pretty sight going forward. Glad I'm not in the business any more.

Thank you Mark for this video, so well said. After 14 months of waiting for my new Toyota Highlander ( first new car ever purchased), I have made a commitment to never bring the vehicle back for service at the dealership. Over the course of the past year I have seen them give my allocation to another customer willing to trade in their vehicle to cut the line, adding another 6 months to my wait time. I will never again buy new, but this market gave me no other option as the used market is also crazy.

In my lifetime I purchased 16 brand new cars from the Herb Chambers dealerships here in the Northeast. Since Covid, they (along with others) are raping consumers by charging over sticker. I told them I will never purchase another car from them as long as I live - nor will anyone in my entire family. They didn't care and claimed I will never find a new car anywhere for under sticker. I've since purchased two new vehicles from other dealers in the region who did not charge over sticker. I will never go back. Times are tough for everyone, and I hope ALL of these dealers get what they deserve. I literally lose respect for anyone paying over sticker for any vehicle. If you do so, YOU are part of the problem. Front and center!

What a very interesting video. You put into words what I've been feeling about cars for the last 10 years. I used to really be into cars as a younger person, but the magic is gone and cars have just become a way to get from point A to point B and pretty much nothing else for me. I bought my last car in 2017 and will likely never buy a new car ever again. The purchasing experience was horrible with incompetent salespeople that don't even know the specifics of the cars they sell. One thing they do know is how to finance them! They will talk on and on about financing, loans, interest rates, etc. Dealers have become a means of financing large purchases, they are an extension of the banks. They make (a lot of) money through loans, financing, leasing and whatever other "service" they can sell you to get kickbacks from the banks. Their service departments are there to keep you spending money in their overpriced shops, charging you for everything they can think of (including firmware updates!). These businesses are about money and nothing else, they could be selling swimming pools and it would make no difference at all.

Very insightful, dude! I’m gonna be 25 in February and it’s scary seeing this car market shift. I’m a car enthusiast. I’ve been owning and driving cars since I was 13. But it’s scary buying a new car. I’ve never purchased a car (brand new) and I can’t afford to purchase something that comes with a price tag of 35-40k. I’m a fan of dodge and with them transitioning to EVs, I won’t be buying anything new from them either. Even if I could. I want a nice 5.7 charger. That’s all.

I work in the industry so I see the dealership experience everyday. With that said, my gut is that people just don't give a crap about their finances. I can't tell you how many times I hear about payments in the 700--900 monthly range and it boggles my mind. To me, a lot of this consumerism has to do with the hype train/keeping up with the Jones's. Gotta have that new toy no matter what the cost. What will people think of me otherwise. Sad really. It will implode.

I live in Italy and can't even imagine what's it like buying a car there. Instead of markup here the dealership are supposed to discount the MSRP. I went to a Hyundai dealership last week to look at their N products and the salesperson was very apologetic trying to explain to me why I have to buy the car at MSRP and why Hyundai doesn't let them offer discount on their performance brand

I always like your straight talking and honesty keep up the good work 👍

It feels the same here in Brazil... cars are now way more expensive than when I started to drive (some 25 years ago) and more difficult to maintain and repair... I remember friends buying their first cars for a price that just sounds ridiculous today... all they can buy for the same price is an average cell phone! That is really killing the passion... I know people that are simply keeping their 2000 to 2005 cars, especially civics, fits and corollas FOREVER! I wonder if that was the plan all along... I mean the green people, the bicycle-solution for everyone kind of insane person... I also would like to know better what's going on. Meanwhile, I'll drive my 2008 Honda Fit 1.5 manual transmission, simple fuel injection, non turbo, 2 airbags and older generation ABS...and you know what? it isn't half bad! Thank you for bringing up the topic! All the best!

As a young car enthusiast im genuinely scared for the future. Im at least happy to know that there are people aware that this is a problem and were not just turning a blind eye.

Mark you've completely nailed it. As a sales rep, I do far too many miles to lease anything, but here in late 2022 it’s hard to justify a new car purchase. I am in Baltimore where dealers are still slapping on $1-3k markups over sticker and interest rates add even more cost to that dealer markup. I am used to stalking inventory, zeroing on the car that’s been sitting, then making a deal for thousands under MSRP plus great financing. Not happening right now, my shopping model is dead in the water. My 2012 E350 Bluetec just crossed the 125k mark and for the first time since it came into our lives cost me some real money this year. $3k for brakes and $3k for an oil cooler with another $1500 for chain tensioners coming soon. Ordinarily I’d be thinking hard about a trade or a sale, but this year those repairs seem more sensible. What’s $3k for a new cooler when the dealer wants that on top of sticker just to have a conversation about a new car? And thanks to the federales, MBUSA just paid $13k for a new emissions system, stem to stern. So as much as I love new cars and new car shopping, I’m settling in for a 200k experience on my 10-year old Teutonic diesel. The post script here is that I have more or less given up on my enthusiast side. I haven't been to a track day since VW came for my Golf TDI, I can't afford a toy car, and I can't justify buying a new car that's a better all-rounder for work and fun. So I'm just going to embrace this Benz for what it is, a relaxed highway cruiser, and just put up with the maintenance. It's screwed together pretty well and has no rust. The engine and transmission are known to be robust. It isn't going to be a trouble-free Toyota but thanks to all the factors you've rattled off here, it's my whip for at least another 50k if not more.

This is so true. I have been having this thoughts. I finally have enough money to buy my first car this year. And I looked at the offerings and I was appalled. I love cars and would spend hours as a child outside just staring at cars and trying to I.D. them. I find the tech and over-engineering in modern cars troublesome. Especially since it can cost as much as $10,000 USD to repair them. I live in a country where that amount can buy you an entire house. So most people don't have the money or are willing to spend that much to repair a faulty software problem. I am personally looking at cars from the 80s and 90s now. If I get a reliable one, I will never buy another car until the madness stops. I'm hoping hydrogen wins in the long run, because BEVs are just not practical in my country. 80 percent of the population can't afford cars. Of the 20 that can afford cars. Only about 5 percent can afford new cars. So most cars are imported used from other markets. Can't imagine an 8 year old BEV that doesn't have major problems. The poverty gap will increase sharply in some areas of the world.

I think you did a phenomenal job in describing the landscape of the automotive industry in 15 minutes. I think it also goes to say that the future of car ownership is simply looking like it will dissolve. Why pay $1000 a month for a car that is depreciating and requires maintenance when you can pay a subscription service and get any car you want at any time you want? The new generation is already leaning towards subscription based services, I see that trend following the automotive industry too

I get more love from people under 20 years old for my 80's BMW than ever before. Anytime that I've been able to ask them about it, they like the engagement of the driving and fixing old cars.(normally an older family member taught them how to work on cars) One of these conversations was in front of one of my customer's new R1T. Given the opportunity, I asked this 13 year old kid about the Rivian. He looked at it, and then straight faced said, "It's cool, but isn't that, like $100k? I can't afford that, so why should I care?" He then immediately switched the conversation back to the E30... The Rivian isn't the flashiest thing, so it might not be the best litmus test, but I found that conversation a bit enlightening.

As someone who previously worked at a dealership and currently works with auto parts, you have said everything I've been thinking for the past year

I love the fact that this channel is so professional and well-produced. And every video has one small thing designed to make you go "Wait ... wtf?" "Wait ... is that a Costco hoodie? Was he wearing that before?"

Very interesting and for me you display a lot of common sense ! This is big because the automotive industry drags so much in . Good video 👍

Honestly....my relationships with dealerships at this point is, I don't ever want to walk into one again. The markup is killing the industry for me. Like the new BRZ is selling at dealers here in Canada for $43,000CDN+ when it's supposed to be starting at $30,000CDN. That's ridiculous...I bought my STI brand new in 2018 for $39,500CDN. I owned a 2015 Scion FRS which I bought new for $25,000CDN. $43,000CDN for a BRZ? Get out of here. I hope people stop being so desperate and not support these dealers with this nonsense.

You said what I've been thinking. I fortunately bought a 2020 F150 New in 01/2021 and have watched it appreciate. Great channel.

The dealers getting desperate issue really resonated with me. Last month I was looking for a new Hyundai Ioniq 5, and a dealer near me listed one as in stock. I contacted them, made an appointment to test drive, and had several emails back n forth. I was very explicit that I was coming there to test drive the car. When I arrived, the car wasn't new, but used, and couldn't be test driven "for safety." They then tried to pivot me to another car entirely. I was livid. They clearly lied to me just to get me on the lot. This one Hyundai dealer didn't just burn the bridge for themselves, but for the entire brand. I'll never look at Hyundai again, and that kinda sucks. It all stems from desperation and demand.

As someone who works service parts at a dealership, the shifting has already started and it's very noticeable. From OE we are starting seeing more and more cases where parts are just straight out discontinued or backordered forever on cars that are barely 10 years old. And it's not every time that you can find an aftermarket solutions for that. Also, the way techs approach problems has changed rather significantly. Some times they actually have no other ways than shooting new parts at cars and hopefully it fixes the issue, if not then load up the next part in line and hope for the best. Some of the systems on nowadays car are simply not serviceable by design. I have had a tech repairing a output shaft seal leak, that ends up not serviceable and only can be fixed by replacing the entire diff carrier. Or a 9-year-old car can not find oem strut due to discontinued, and aftermarket has no options either. Electrical systems are even worse. Those magic blep-bloop boxes are not designed to be repaired and techs have to replace them. I often ask them what do they think when our EV start rolling in next year, and they are like "well, parts canon I guess".

The GR Corolla might be the last straw for me. I was "first" on the list at two dealerships and got bumped for straight cash. Right now I can't get any of the cars I want without paying a massive markup. It's killing my enthusiasm.

I agree with everything you said in this video. Grew up an enthusiast, worked in the industry for years and then moved on, now make six figures... bought a cx-5. The cost is too high in general for vehicles and they're not fun or interesting anymore. Too many people, cops and laws to have fun driving even if you can escape the ever-present traffic in most places. I could buy anything I wanted and chose a semi-interesting vehicle in a boring category.

Kirkland Signature logowear FTW! Agree, not a fan of the car buying experience. We used TrueCar (new) and CarMax (used) for the last four car purchases since I am not a fan of haggling. And yes, cars are way more expensive than in the past. I wanted to get a new stick, tried looking for an Si but the Honda guys wanted well over MSRP. Ended up with an Integra since they sold near MSRP, but of course I had to get the highest trim level. It would be great if the federal regulators allowed simpler cars again -- old school CRX HF would be awesome today! If we can buy motorcycles (airbag-free!), let's have super basic, lightweight, high MPG, fun cars again.

I’m under the impression any successful dealership is kept afloat by their service department. They obviously need sales too (customer acquisition and brand accreditation), but I don’t think some of these dealers were hit as hard by the car shortage as they made out to be. They had to cut some staff, but that’s just the nature of doing business… if sales are down, you don’t need as many salesmen - not exactly a highly qualified position either, and most salesmen are more ignorant than a buyer who spends a single day researching a car, so I don’t feel bad for them. I was aware of everything you mentioned that is potentially spelling disaster for the industry (prices, inflation, interest rates, markups, education costs burdens for younger buyers) but hadn’t really thought about the culminated effect… it does seem like a collapse is possible, and if it somehow stays afloat, many more Americans are going to find themselves car-poor.

As a 24yo just getting into cars and wanting to buy my first new one after driving a old civic for years this couldn't come at a worse time :(

I got rid of my car 5 years ago to further strengthen my FIRE plans and I am very happy about it. Probably not so easily doable as American, but here in Central Europe I just started walking everywhere and all that saved money allows me to splurge on nice vacations abroad while also being very well with my capital savings. It is music in my ears whenever I hear coworkers lament about repair cost, having to get a new car because the old ones repair is not economical, etc.

This video is great but sad. I wish I still had my 1999 V6 5sp (stick) Camry, but unfortunately, someone blew a redlight and plowed into it. Only thing that had ever gone out on it was a O2 sensor. Now I have a Honda Accord Hybrid (base model). Great MPG - I just hope it lasts forever. Thank you for putting in the time to do these videos. I just discovered this site today.

I agree with all of this as a 4 year car salesman. My store doesn't charge any accessories OR markups on anything and customers love it. It's the way it should be regardless of how rare or in demand it may be.

The part that hurts the most is knowing that 96% of it is going to the dealer principle/owner As a Salesperson, I can say it's fun to ride the wave and all with the mark-ups, but we all collectively know it's not gonna last forever. I think the majority just feels it's their turn to reap the rewards of a broken market like all the other sectors (housing, stocks, etc).

I have an old 1999 Ford Ranger. the windshield wipers sometimes just go off or refuse to turn on unless you go full speed, only one speaker still works, it's scraped and dented all over, the tailgate constantly needs to be tweaked to get the tabs to go into the slots to stay closed, the gas gauge is broken so i rely on the trip meter to tell when to refuel, had a tree fall on it, and half of it is repainted with outdoor house paint. wouldn't sell it for anything. the engine is open and all the things you would need to get to or look at regularly are right there. it's simple and easy to do preventative maintenance, it's hardy and probably shouldn't be running as well as it is but it still starts and goes easily. not to mention the thing is a beast for how small it is. it can haul a surprising amount of weight and was surprisingly easy to undent and repair after the tree. just go easy on it with snow. it does not handle in snow.

I bought my corolla for 5K - 5-6 years go and now it costs the same money and even more - also on the second hand market there are almost no good cars to even sell. Only some 2-3 years leasing cars which cost almost the same price as a new car and that's it. Crazy...

I'm in the 20-30 year old age category, and out of all my friends and myself, I only know one who has bought a brand new vehicle (though I'm sure his parents helped him foot the bill). My newest vehicle has been a 2005. One friend of mine works for SpaceX and daily drives a mid 90s Civic. I was in the market for an off road vehicle and considered a new truck, but the cost was just mind blowing compared to the cost of an older Jeep that's about just as capable. So, I keep finding myself back to the used car market over and over again when looking for a car. The market will not sustain itself at this pace.

What a great video. My wife and I recently was thinking about purchasing a new 4Runner. So we went to one of our local dealers. I knew they'd be expensive, but wasn't ready for how expensive. I am an older dude, good job, and comfortable in our finances. But I just can't bring myself to spend $50K++ on a vehicle. It is insane. And you are right, everyone wants the latest bells and whistles. But it just isn't worth it. I am also a car-guy, and my two sons are car-guys too. And we are always talking about how the industry is leaving us being. No more truly manufactured driving cars.

As an 18-25 year old with no money, my options are limited. It is becoming increasingly difficult to be fiscally responsible in a way that is impactful, because everything is so expensive. Before the used car market crashed, I took out a loan for a 12-year-old Honda Fit with 160,000 miles on it. I settled for it because the car I wanted, a Scion tC, wouldn’t sell for less than $13 grand in decent condition. I’m happy with my purchase, but looming over my head is the possibility that it’ll break down before my loan is repaid. In a more consumer-friendly market, I wouldn’t have to worry, because I could’ve gotten it for a more manageable monthly payment. Buying a new car is nowhere near within reach for me or anyone I know that’s my age. You’re totally right that the younger generation is being phased out of the market. I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to buy a new car. How could I when the starting prices are as much as my salary? It would be a patently absurd financial decision. I am perfectly happy driving old Japanese cars until the industry collapses and regulations allow them to make cars that people can buy again.

I completely agree with this. I used to work as a manager at a small used dealership and we had really good relations with the new stores for parts. What people were doing with sales and financing, we were also doing, and after a while, I just didn't want to be a part of the system anymore. I left that about two years ago. I've been telling people about this auto-bubble for years now, and I'm ever more concerned with it. When it bursts, I think it will have a much greater effect than just the auto industry.

You captured my deep concerns beautifully Mark! As a car enthusiast and also someone who has now worked in the technology industry for over 25 years, I am frankly angry that the worst ideas in technology are making their way to the automotive industry. I don’t see a solution to it! I am slowly accepting I need to remove any emotional attachment to owning or driving a car and find a new hobby! Thank you Mark! A small part of me is still hopeful the industry will wake up!

People need to hear more video's like this. Thanks Mark for not being scared to say what is really going on with the auto industry. And, don't forget the Fed's messing with everything else as well. And, EV'S are not the magical pill everyone thinks they are. Pretty soon, only the top incomes will be able to afford a new car. A new pickup truck should not be 50,000 and up..

It's also not only a US problem but global. Automakers had record profits because they cut staff and produced/sold mostly luxury cars to China due to the chip shortage. Of course those cars have better margins, so why would companies deign to produce those 15-20k cars for peasants? What they don't realize is that they're losing loyal customers. My father has been a Mercedes fan since his dad bought one in the 60s. Would he buy one now? No, because they're too tech-focused, have features that drive up cost unnecessarily and cost almost double what they should.

Good video . Just picked up a 1982 Ford Fairmont parts are super common and many still made . Took a ride in a Tesla this year kool but have a much better memory of a ride in a 1903 Baker electric . Owned by a car collector .

Mark, you've hit the nail on the head, of the nail in the coffin. I have been characterized as car "obsessed" since I was 4 years old. I would pour over magazines & online articles, always excited to see what new cars and engines were coming out. I have been very fortunate during my twenties to be able to have lots of fun with cars, and to own some cars I never thought I would be able to own when I was teenager. Now, at 29, I am less & less excited every year by anything new. I have a new vehicle for work, but I doubt I will be purchasing another "new" car going forward for personal use. It will be as you described; an enthusiast who has given up on anything new, buys an older car that suits their particular type of "fun", sits on it, and keeps it running into the future. Between the price of new cars, the dealer mark-ups, scarcity of selection, over-complication of the products, lack of driving connection and horrible dealer experience (with most brands, and I say that as someone who worked in automotive for 10 years), there is NOTHING about new vehicle products that is making me want to spend my hard-earned income on anything new.