Robert Newby it’s hard typing complex subjects in comment (a white board is useful) but here goes nothing. 1) the target of the therapeutics they are talking about are often a protein that is expressed by an exon far far away from the telomeres. For example, let’s say a gene expresses a protein and a drug targets that protein, let’s say as an example it’s an enzyme that the drug increases function of and thus prevents hypertension. This increases life span but has zero to do with the telomeres length and telomerase function. Hope that makes sense 2. Genome of mice and humans (both at genetic and epigenetic levels) are VERY different. That basically means we have some genes that are the same, some genes that do the same but work differently and some genes that only humans or mice have. You could use this fact to say mice are not an ideal model and thus some therapeutics don’t translate to humans (but keep in mind we have to start somewhere and you can’t start with humans). If you make that point you’d be right. This is why many therapeutics (that I also work on) use what is called a humanized mouse model when possible. Google it it is really cool and clever. I’d be happy to explain different versions of it (and discuss the limitations of it) but I’m sure someone on RU-vid has done already it better than I can here Am I explaining it clearly or not making any sense?
@@ricksanchezC0137 Well this all makes sense, but in my opinion it does not contradict what was mentioned in the podcast. There was no talk about the influence of drugs on telomeres or genes. If I understood correctly, the general effect on the individual cell was discussed. When a new compound is tested, it could be potentially harmful to the cell, regardless of which protein it targets (perhaps by a different mode of action than was hoped for. Especially when it comes to new drugs this is difficult to predict). So if the substance damages the cell, the telomeres could make sure that this damage is "repaired" in the mice tested and the damage would not appear in the study. Therefore, the risk of falsified results could be very high. This could lead to the active substance being approved for further testing and the harmful effect remaining undiscovered until then. On the second point, it could be argued that (if we leave aside clinical trials for drugs) many investigations and studies in a number of areas only focus on mice. It is doubtful whether the same high standard is always used there. Even if the humanized mouse model is used, it should be checked in several studies whether there is a risk of errors as a result of the special telomeres. So whether or not Bret Weinstein's theory and the possible consequences are correct or not, should be checked for the sake of care. If the theory proves to be correct, in the best case a pile of studies would have to be thrown into the trash can and in the worst case human lives would be endangered (for example in human tests after the tests on mice). The arugmentation is convincing enough to wish for a scientific examination of it. A translator was used, so don't pay too much attention to the bad English.
@@michaelblaes9847 come to understand it was uptain sinclair who said that. not george orwell. to be fair it sounds more orwellian than ...... than sinclairian. not even sure if sinclair HAS a sound.
exactly why we got NaziTrump because his RussiaNazi salary wouldn't allow him to make american any better what so ever. Not to mention he was paid to withhold Ukrainian aid. The aid being currently provided for helping to stop Nazi WW3
@John Marston Because you're too much not high enough. I got so high I saw your your face in his profile pic, and my dog in your pic, and the P and M just keep blinking back and forth like quantum dots, separated by different universes. "WOW.... I'm going to town....." -Dewey Cox-
Out of everything that came out of this podcast I am surprised at the lack of attention given to this part by viewers/commentators. If what Bret is insinuating is remotely correct, we're in some serious danger. Not to mention the benefit of fixing such a problem and uncovering other problems that may already exist that we are ignoring.
The implication is that humans are essentially beta testing these drugs; which our system has tacitly given the green light. Reminds me of that quote from the Chernobyl miniseries: "Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, the debt is paid".
This video gave me a theory. What if the experimentation on mice is actually just a smokescreen. What if the drug companies uses mice experiments to easily pass tests so they can bring it to market and actually test it on humans instead of bringing to market an actual and tested drug? BOOOOOOOOOM!
@@thedevilsadvocate3710 You just realized that? They'll also fuck with data they get from human studies. They'll release the data that makes it look good and keep secret the data that looks bad. It's how Purdue was able to sell oxycontin as non-addictive, even though they knew very well how addictive it is.
It’s a shame that Bret gets zero credit for such an amazing discovery but continues to be remember for what those assholes at Evergreen put him through..
I agree, David. But on a level, isn't it fantastic that so many of us around the world (I'm from Downunder) have come to know him and follow his presentations on all sorts of issues every week? Without Evergreen, I might never have 'discovered' Bret. So glad I did. And his wife. And his brother!
Rick Sanchez C-137 what are you talking about? He’s not even talking about microbiology. Pro tip: if you don’t know anything about biology then don’t talk about it
It’s called cognitive bias - people in that field have dedicated their whole career to that way of testing and are scared to admit they have wasted their whole life testing something that’s flawed by definition. Just gotta convince them with hard facts and studies so they can no longer deny it. It’s a sad fact about so much that human beings deal with and it holds back our progression as a species.
How does this syndrome not reflect to a justification of skepticism surrounding environmental consensus though, consensus is not a virtue in science, it is a demonstrable inhibitor. continued research with explored skepticism is the theoretical strength of science, so we have this potential issue with lab mice, why can that not be reflected in climatological research. why can Joe believe this and not the validity of skepticism within environmental policy, it smacks of dogma and an insular view that Joe usually is so keen to escape from. I know a bit of a change from the subject but I hope I've conveyed my point.
Im a research engineer and was testing the performance of an innovative solution. The experiments yielded some benchmark shattering results. A week later, I discovered a malfunctioning part of the tester that caused inaccurate sensing. Needless to say, my heart sank to my stomach as my years of hard work were a failure. I begrudgingly broke it to my superiors. This is probably what these scientists are thinking, that his discovery will cause a massive rescission of published papers and works. These scientists are more concerned with their reputation than actual science.
That is science in a nutshell. Evidence is disregarded and ignored if it does not fit with pre established theories. (Look at how Copernicus or Galileo were treated by their contempories aswell as their superiors) or for a more modern day example take a look at how Dr Mary Schweitzers discoveries were treated... I was taught that to be scientific fact something must be theorised, tested under controlled conditions , witnessed/recorded and repeated. However, This process of the scientific method absolutely infuriates scientists , fundamental theories such as the evolution of species and the big bang, can not be witnessed, tested or repeated thus, rendering them hypotheses only.. Science can tell us many things and can disprove some of the claims of religion, however science is not always accurate and it is a cliquey field where majority opinion holds more weight than controversial evidence. Mathematics is the only way of revealing true fact. Numbers don't lie . Apply maths to any theory and if the numbers tally up the theory is sound . If the numbers become incomprehensible then the theory must be discarded . Science has taught me to believe in God .but mathematics has confirmed gods existence to me
This is what I despise about science is covering up facts and studies because it will destroy someone's legacy or ego. Which is why I stopped at a bachelor's in Engineering after noticing how researches were convinced their work is right when it wasnt
But perhaps his findings are an oversight, not unlike the results from the malfunctioning tester you'd mentioned. Does the entire scientific community really care more about their writings staying valid than acknowledging the truth? If so, then how pathetic.
What a well spoken teacher. I absolutely love learning from people like this who can thoroughly explain things I know hardly anything about in a way that I can put two and two together and see what they’re saying
Bret is a good story teller, but he has only ever been patient enough for the theoretical, just constantly spinning out ideas in all directions. We use cell cultures and outbred mice since the 1980s for discovery phase medical research, then it transfers to non-human primates for tolerance and toxicology (sometimes to dogs if they are a closer analogous species for the medical issue), then to phase I human trials for safety and dose eacalation, and then phase II for safety+effectiveness then to phase III for large scale safety+effectiveness. We never just take initial inbred mouse result into humans. Most of what Bret says is bullshit stories cherry picking the 0.01% of ideas he spun out that someone else independently proved was correct as of he is a rouge genius who predicts the future if only the world would listen. The rest are actual fabrications that are untrue but stir the pot in ways that upset the establishment, which is now what he lives for as a bitter old man that non-scientists are now listening to via the internet.
2 years later and I'm just seeing this. That speaks a lot to what he was saying about their being no proper response to this problem when presented to the proper authorities. Holy crap this is scary!
mice are early models because they are relatively cheap but non-human primates are more representative of how a human would respond to treatment, which are required for new drugs
Warchild, refugee and legal immigrant here. kina virus released to fk up the elections...millions dead, billion+ with heart/organ issues...evil know no bounds, 100% intentionally released...just to get one man out of office, one man they could not buy/control. I have seen what communism will do to stay in or get in power. Anything! Chinese killed 30+ million of their own for power less than a century ago. It was a crazy conspiracy theory that FBI smoked Kennedy and now we know it is true. It was a conspiracy theory that kina virus was manmade but now we know it is true. MSM/Big Tech working overtime to censor/ban. This was intentionally released to fk up US election and for the Chinese to get protesters of Hong Kong streets because if Hong Kong goes so do commies in China. Win-win for commies and US dems....millions dead, billion+ with heart/organ issues. Godless people will always create hell.
It's because he was effectively canceled by the powers that be/scientific narrative because he was an early advocate of the lab leak theory edit: too early of an advocate
Yep crazy like wtf ...Look at Florida right now radioactive water being poured everywhere in Tampa here in my home towns where I'm from and along the i4 corridor unbelievable fucking unbelievable people being evacuated
Warchild, refugee and legal immigrant here. kina virus released to fk up the elections...millions dead, billion+ with heart/organ issues...evil know no bounds, 100% intentionally released...just to get one man out of office, one man they could not buy/control. I have seen what communism will do to stay in or get in power. Anything! Chinese killed 30+ million of their own for power less than a century ago. It was a crazy conspiracy theory that FBI smoked Kennedy and now we know it is true. It was a conspiracy theory that kina virus was manmade but now we know it is true. MSM/Big Tech working overtime to censor/ban. This was intentionally released to fk up US election and for the Chinese to get protesters of Hong Kong streets because if Hong Kong goes so do commies in China. Win-win for commies and US dems....millions dead, billion+ with heart/organ issues. Godless people will always create hell.
What a seriously well spoken individual. His ability to explain his field without making it overly convoluted shows you he really knows what he's talking about.
Amen, a master of a trait or skill can describe it to almost anyone of any education level because they know and understand the info well enough to make analogies and other things to help other understand
I cannot remember which study it was, but the punchline was essentially this: "The *control* group of lab mice *_also_* got cancer." That matters, because if the control-group is also getting cancer, then how accurate was the test? How many other tests got screwed? If the lab-rats are never allowed to go to a natural death of "old age", how often were they getting cancer anyway? I remember being very disheartened by the study -- appalled, actually, At that point, i decided that "has-been-shown-to-cause-cancer-in-lab-mice" wouldn't be much more than a guide. Whereas "has-been-shown-to-cause-cancer-in-HUMANS" would be a much more relevant study.
What he's talking about about halfway through reminds me of the canary in the coal mine, like the actual usage of canaries. A tour guide through a coal mine told us a story about a miner who decided to use a chicken rather than a canary since the chicken was cheaper. He didn't show for lunch, and was found dead next to his workspace...the chicken still pecking the ground perfectly alive and healthy. Turns out chicken lungs can withstand much more toxic air than ours or the canaries.
Why were we using canaries in the first place? The same reason we're using mice, of course. We know it works. For the most part he's overstating the importance of this..
Canaries hold onto air differently than humans. I think it goes left breathes in, right breathes out, right breathes in, left breathes out. They go down faster giving humans some time.
The Fermented Sailor wait is this sarcastic or for real? I can’t tell... if it is serious, then you should probably reconsider your values, because all you’re doing is wasting space in a backwater RU-vid comments section. If you wanna evangelize, then just go out on the street with a soap box and yell real loud, because you’ll honestly do better that way. And, if you’re too scared to leave your comfy computer chair, then stop telling people they need to join the military and become an “alpha”. And if everything I’ve said is true, then I’m ashamed to share a continent with you, and the same basic genome; being human brings me shame when I know there are people like you out there.
@Dreymon Green lol wtf Jesus did not love war or pride get ur facts straight... Certain Bible characters sure did but Jesus himself did not,, dont mix the whole Bible with Jesus' teachings...
Sounds like Bret tripped over the monster’s tail, went to tell others about his discovery but only to have the park ranger tell him it was just a tree branch
Complete delusion. He published this hypothesis 18 years ago. It received a little attention but overall had little impact and offers little actionable suggestions. It is still available online, for all to see. No one is hiding it. Bret is a failed scientist trying to stay relevant.
@@CephalicMiasma4 yeah because your an expert on the subject and can give us all an answer... NOT. Sick of people like you either shutting down ideas or promoting them with little to none evidence to support your claims. You used opinions in place of facts, but opinions don't mean jack in an argument won with FACTS. So many people argue things like you and truly believe they are right, its almost like YOU are delusional buddy
I doubt he is directly in danger, rather it's way more likely that any potential Whistle Blowers will be disappeared instead the moment they do anything that would offer Proof to these concerns. Without a trail of doctored whitepapers and corroborating Data he's just a harmless Lone conspiracy Theorist
...shooting himself 12 times in the head on the way down, landing conveniently on a bed of spikes, getting pushed into a junkyard, where he was then sodomized by Jeffery Epstein's reanimated finger, before being launched by a dysfunctional magnetic crane straight into Hillary Clinton's inbox...where he was promptly deleted. Coroner Ruling - Suicide
Mac Matheson it already has. Look into the police officers that investigated into Anthony Weiner’s laptop case:. 6 of the 9 ended up being a “suicide.” What’s on his laptop is so wicked, the actual police officers who were following the case died suddenly.
This is one of the biggest news breaks in modern American health science history but RU-vid’s algorithm wants to recommend kids flipping water bottles to me.
@@IveGotAHondaFifty do not be coy or stupid. don’t act like RU-vid has never recommended “how to properly solder hydroelectric turbine motherboards together” just cuz it wanted to see sumthing real quick…
@@dominik13579 It would be a different if something was actually being done, which it doesn't seem is occurring. People will always tend to cover their ass (mistakes) when told they are wrong instead of correcting it.
Being optimisitic and hopeful here would be they are now working on new medicine to replace those that are tested on the right mice instead of going back and correcting everything. But thats being highlg optimistic
Most importantly, from a corporate standpoint, if this is acknowledged as truth, then liabilities skyrocket and lawsuits abound. It's denied vehemently because of this. They *might* at some point solve the issue quietly and pretend nothing ever changed, if they're smart enough.
Joe Rogan is such a great interviewer! Knows when to lead questions, but more importantly knows how to let his guest explain in-depth without feeling the need to talk. That’s why JRE is so phenomenal
Warchild, refugee and legal immigrant here. kina virus released to fk up the elections...millions dead, billion+ with heart/organ issues...evil know no bounds, 100% intentionally released...just to get one man out of office, one man they could not buy/control. I have seen what communism will do to stay in or get in power. Anything! Chinese killed 30+ million of their own for power less than a century ago. It was a crazy conspiracy theory that FBI smoked Kennedy and now we know it is true. It was a conspiracy theory that kina virus was manmade but now we know it is true. MSM/Big Tech working overtime to censor/ban. This was intentionally released to fk up US election and for the Chinese to get protesters of Hong Kong streets because if Hong Kong goes so do commies in China. Win-win for commies and US dems....millions dead, billion+ with heart/organ issues. Godless people will always create hell.
To summarise this video: - There are some substantial differences between wild mice and lab mice, lab mice have been altered for testing somewhere along the lines. Either accidentally or purposely. - We are using altered lab mice to test drugs before they are deemed safe for humans. - These altered lab mice are more resistant to certain toxins whereas those same toxins could have a detrimental effect on us humans. - This eludes that the current procedure of testing pharmaceutical drugs is completely flawed. And all drugs that have been dubbed safe via testing on altered lab mice are in fact, not safe at all and the effects long term on humans are unknown and could be extremely detrimental to our health and lives. Causing us serious harm and or death. - The papers and evidence of this apparent scientific mistake (which would effect the health and well-being of millions if not billions of people around the world) are not being put in the spotlight. - Media and news outlets all around the world should be reporting on this paper, which points to a completely flawed system in the testing of pharmaceuticals. One of the biggest industries in the world; the pharmaceutical industry, worth trillions of dollars has potentially got it all wrong which could have major consequences causing serious health problems and or death for millions of people. Yet nothing is being reported or aired by any major news or media outlets, quite strange isn’t it? In conclusion: - pharmaceuticals are not accurately tested. - Pharmaceuticals are potentially very dangerous for humans. - It’s probably not safe to take pharmaceuticals. - Proof of all of this is being covered up.
originally posted by "nunya busniss" Brain: Through meticulous analysis of history I will find a way to make the people worship me. By studying the conquerors of days gone by, I'll discover the mistakes that made them go awry. Pinky: So that you can make the same mistakes if you just try. Brain: By studying the past so carefully, I won't repeat the same mistakes of history. Pinky: You'll never make another mistake, you see, 'cause you'll fall asleep from reading all that history. Brain: Pay attention Pinky! When Cleopatra reigned as Queen, With Roman leaders she was often seen. But when she had no ruling friend, She found a poison snake to bite her in the end. Pinky: A bite down there I really wouldn't recommend. Brain: I won't need world alliances, When I'm commanding everyone's appliances. Pinky: Oh no Brain, that would really smart, To be bitten on the bottom by a Cuisinart. Brain: Hannibal, our book confirms, Tried conquering Italy with pachyderms. Just why he failed, nobody tells, But he never could get past the Roman sentinels. Pinky: And he couldn't find his weapons in the peanut shells. Brain: An elephant is not required, If I can use the media to be admired. Pinky: The TV viewers you'll delight, Unless the network puts your show on Sunday night. Brain: Attila was a mighty Hun, He ransacked Asia Minor just for fun. But when he got to Europe's banks, He was routed by an army of heroic Franks. Pinky: I like mine with sauerkraut and mustard, thanks. Brain: Why pillage like a criminal, When I can send out messages subliminal. Pinky: Please send a message to that Hun, To see if he can pillage me a hot dog bun. [whack] Zort! Brain: Caligula was no boy scout, He did things that we can't even talk about. The Romans knew he'd lost his head, When he filled a vacant Senate seat with Mr. Ed. Pinky: What's wrong with being friendly with a thoroughbred? Brain: Why rule like such a reprobate, When I can put the world in a hypnotic state? Pinky: When everybody's in a trance, You can make the people do a chicken dance. Brain: Pinky, if you don't stop this foolishness, I shall have to hurt you. Pinky: 'kay. Brain: In France, Napoleon Buonaparte, Thought beating Austria was very smart. But when he took on England too, He was beaten up by Wellington at Waterloo. Pinky: And now he's just a pastry filled with creamy goo. Brain: Why conquer with depravity, I'll win the world by undermining gravity. Pinky: And even if your plan falls through, Maybe they will name a pastry after you. [squirt] Waahahaha! Brain: From Ghengis Khan to Charlemagne, From Alexander down to Tamburlaine. I find a ruler's tragic flaw, And gain a little wisdom out of each faux pas. Pinky: Don't forget the former Governor of Arkansas. Brain: That concludes my little rhyme, I hope this lesson wasn't just a waste of time. Pinky: Well Brain, I've learned that one thing's true, Every one of them has failed, and so have you. Brain: Thank you for your vote of confidence. Now come, we must prepare for tomorrow night. Pinky: Why, what are we going to do tomorrow night? (Gasp) Sing a song about all the world's cheeses? Brain: No, Pinky, we shall try to take over the world -- Through meticulous analysis of history.
My mom went to the doctor for knee pain 10 years ago. The doctor gave her some meds. Each year the gave her more meds. Now she is on 100 different high dose meds and has at least 10 painful amd debilitating diseases. My brother developed a knee pain last year. I didn't let him go to the doctor and taught him massage and functional workouts. Now he's 100 percent healed. Now go figure it out for yourself.
No, the problem is his 'discovery' is a basic fact that people doing genetics and molecular biology have understood for decades. It's shocking to him because he's not a geneticist. This has nothing to do with Pharma companies. University research labs all around the world are filled with people who understand the issue and work with and around it. There are LOTS of different strains of lab mice. They have different genetics, and can react very differently to different drugs. It's extremely well known. It's why we select certain ones for testing different things. Google Jackson Labs Mice Strains. They, as just 1 supplier, have a huge catalog of different strains with different genetics. He got ignored the way someone telling a mathematician that 2+2=4 would get ignored.
Hello, biologist here. Most serious drugs, biologics, and medical devices are required by the FDA to undergo a series of tests in different animals, starting with mice, ending with monkeys and eventually humans. Though Weinstein has a point in the mouse model’s flaw, most safety tests at the mouse level are just to ensure death does not immediately occur. As with any drug, even some that do cause tissue damage in humans, there is always a risk/benefit assessment. Are there drugs that may cause heart damage over years but prevent someone from dying tomorrow. Probably. So the FDA approves it, and you get a nice warning sticker on the side. Just my 2 cents. Of course, the Joe Rogan podcast is known to be somewhat sensationalist to draw excitement around previously discussed issues, and while again Weinstein has a point, the world and science are unfortunately not as clear cut as he tries to make them sound.
Thank goodness I'm not the only one. Mice are not the end all be all.... they're a cheap, quickly reproducing, starting point before testing on more expensive and harder to care for animals.
@@robertlarrypoor1465 There are currently studies into creating human tissue for use in testing drugs. They've already done this on a small scale with heart tissue so this lab mice thing I don't see as too huge of a problem.
I don't completely agree , I think there is also problem in quantity. These drugs doesn't kill every human , but maybe 1 of 1000/10 000/100 000 cases. You can test drugs on 1000 mice , but you can't test it on 1000 monkeys. So there is a valid argument for Weinstein point, if the mice are genetically modified to be resistant to these drugs , you can change the ratio from 1 of 1000 to 1 of 1 000 000 or more . That means you can get very bad results ,which you can or can't catch later - example if you will test it on 10 monkeys later , it is statistically not very probable to catch it. There are only few mammals that you can use for drug testing in large quantities ( e.g rabbits ) but as far I know mice are the most common. Also the fact alone that FDA approves it , doesn't mean it is not a huge problem. Again as far I know FDA approved lots of things by mistake or despite error in the drugs , of course it is very long and hard process but if you model contains part where results can be altered by the test itself, mistakes happen.
It's not. Everything in academics is proved with evidence. Without evidence you're just lying to yourself. That's how your able to determine what is true and what is false. Sadly, people without an education believe anything people tell them and are not smart enough to look through the evident to determine the truth for themself.
I studied Cell Biology at Johns Hopkins where Carol Greider works, I specially went their to study telomeres. I was shocked to learn the few telomeres researchers were either in the Aging labs or Cancer Center, this was 2008-2012 and I came to the same realization of this gentlemen here and was surprised the two sides were not chatting with each other. I tried to pitch my own independent research projects for years but nothing ever came of it.
This is fascinating and unsettling. I’ve always felt that I’d never take pharmaceuticals unless I had no other choice and this is just another reason to be very wary of the industry as a whole
Certain companies have important academic connections and use them to control narratives related to their products. Someone I know was a lab assistant in a lab studying diabetes treatments, they induced diabetes in rats and mice by mixing MSG into their food over a long period which caused them to eat much more and develop diabetes rather reliably. He then noticed the amount of MSG in many normal foods, particularly lower cost food marketed to low income people who were also known to be statistically more prone to diabetes, and he released a paper on it. He was shut out of grad school, no longer employable in any lab, and predictably nobody else wants to research links between MSG in food and rising rates of diabetes.
It deeply saddens me to think that we live in an era where mantaining profit for pharmaceutical companies is more important than giving way to new discoveries in the medical field. Good luck finding a cure for any particular disease and release it.
Warchild, refugee and legal immigrant here. kina virus released to fk up the elections...millions dead, billion+ with heart/organ issues...evil know no bounds, 100% intentionally released...just to get one man out of office, one man they could not buy/control. I have seen what communism will do to stay in or get in power. Anything! Chinese killed 30+ million of their own for power less than a century ago. It was a crazy conspiracy theory that FBI smoked Kennedy and now we know it is true. It was a conspiracy theory that kina virus was manmade but now we know it is true. MSM/Big Tech working overtime to censor/ban. This was intentionally released to fk up US election and for the Chinese to get protesters of Hong Kong streets because if Hong Kong goes so do commies in China. Win-win for commies and US dems....millions dead, billion+ with heart/organ issues. Godless people will always create hell.
lmao. Maintaining profit? what are you even talking about? Like would you rather testing be done on humans? mice aren't a perfect model and never have. Wild mice would have more uncontrolled variables making research less reliable. And if you think people aren't constantly working to improve animals models you know little of the medical sciences world.
@@superjaguar30No one smart thinks Brett is implying using wild mice would be better, use your brain. They'll use the animal models that make them the most money, not the ones that lead to actually helping people most effectively, Mr big pharma lapdog.
JRE I think it would behoove you to link his articles in the description so that it can be found by your audience! I am in medicine and I haven’t heard of it as I know how biased the medical community can be. Also it’s important to know that mice are not the last line and then human. It usually goes cell line, mice, pig, monkey, then human. So there’s a lot of testing on many different animals before human. Interesting though!
This is a bad sign. You feel the need to simplify this small clip of an episode into emojis because it's the only way you can think about it with your tiny brain lol
@@acosta2493 exactly, its the people that love the shit, abuse the shit, and will do whatever it takes to get it. certain people can handle being in a position of "power". The thing is in order to get to many high levels of power, you have to be corrupt and basically heartless.
Now I know why my wife (who worked in a hospital) would be told by her doctor friends not to take any new medication until it has been used broadly for at least 10 years.
@@davidjenkins8449 he's not saying medicines don't work, he's saying it would be a good idea to avoid them when unnecessary because of undesirable effects that materialise in late life which are systematically missed by animal testing
Thanks for doing this show joe, we appreciate everything you do! A modern day Robin Hood of knowledge. And thank you all of joes guests! You guys are amazing
Awesome talk! It illustrates how progress, even in the most researched and controlled field can always have its faults. Nobody is too smart, you should always take a moment and check if what you do is right.
Doing cable installs I ran into 2 instances where there were issues of massive systemic interference, both of which were known by at least some line techs. Management ignored the problem presumably because it would have been hugely expensive to fix and/or because it would have exposed the fact that they ignored it.
I've heard years ago that many lab rats used were also extremely prone to developing tumors though they still lived longer than outside rats due to safer environment conditions.
Depends on the strain. There are many strains of mice and other rodents that are used in labs. Some are well known for spontaneously developing certain kinds of tumours. Good scientists are aware of that and will factor that into their results. But many bad scientists have used tumour prone mice to "show" that something causes cancer when it likely doesn't.
@@bans9183 you get covid-19 positive results when you test people. They're testing you for white blood cells but if something attacks the walls to your heart that is the same positive that will come out, similar to cancer patients testing positive for cancer.
Love Brett Weinstein, but I have a few sticks I can throw into the wheels of this argument. You are right, there are no good animal models, they all have issues. The loss of telomeres does not in itself prevent cell growth, instead, it might be better explained by the loss of actual genes at the ends, which would in turn lead to a loss of cell viability. Cell replication is more complicated than just telomeres, so even if you were right, it may not affirm your hypothesis. As for cancerigenic compounds, while most tests look for cancer, years after ingestion, newer tests (see TwinStrand, Seattle) let you see those mutagenesis rates almost in real time.
Wow. That is interesting I use to work at a lab that bred these mice and rats. That's all we did was breed a specific type and then colleges and testing labs would order from us. We box them up and ship them out. I HATED it. It was messing with my health and causing me to break out on my face. I worked in the area that killed rats that were sick or had tumors...at least this is what they tell you. Yea the occasional one had a tumor or looked sickly but 99 percent of the thousands we killed were just overstock and some being babies that were days old or if they wanted to start a new breed but didn't have room they would get rid of another to replace it which was hundreds. We used Co2 to kill them and it was anything but humane. They would slowly die and some would even seem dead but then come back and you could hear them. I didn't even give the place a two week notice. I just quit. They would have people try to sneak in their like reporters and get hired just to spy on them too. It was crazy. Crap insurance and paid 9 dollars an hour.
Why kill them couldnt they just let them go free in the woods or wild.. i no im asking a fairy tale question but it just shows how money is way more valued them life all life... Sad...
@@Mike-jx8ks release them and disrupt the entire ecosystem? These rats have not been exposed to nature for generations - they do not survive in nature and if they do then they endanger other aboriginal species
It's insane to me that you Google the most humane way to kill a rat and they say CO2. I am a rat breeder. And CO2 is definitely NOT the most humane way. Mise well choke them. It'll be faster and less stressful. My snakes do a better job. Science, opinion, sucks on this matter.
All lab mice had the same problem because of the fact they were breed in lab. It wasn’t an accident of one lab, it was an inherent flaw of them being lab mice. Watch The Portal podcast episode to learn all the details for 2 hours instead of it being compressed to 18 minutes.
Also, most new drugs are developed in the U.S. and the safety trials required for FDA approval are performed in the U.S., on mice from the Jackson laboratory.
@@SueMyChin The claim is that lab mice are not adequate vectors for drug testing. It does not entail that all or even most medications are harmful to humans. It's just an issue that exposes us to more risk than we believed to be the case.
@MichaelOK, so give me an example of a toxic drug that we used for an extended period, after initially testing with lab mice and offer your alternative to the tests on mice that would have exposed the problems at testing stage?
Had similar experiences. My most cited paper was on a trivial thing. Once recognized, I become a world's expert and was funded for obvious experiments in that area. But, when trying to take a small step in a new direction, nope, unless a well known in that field is on the grant. Science is no different than other endeavors.
When people in the future study why Rogan was so successful, they need to study episodes like this. Rogan maybe asks like 2 real questions and makes maybe 10 comments in this whole segment. He let's people with something to say speak and explain their positions. It's truly revolutionary. Greatest concept since books.
Bret is an unbelievably cool guy. Media hit jobs like what was done to him proves there is a systematic eradication of educators that teach you to think vs teach you to memorize "correct" answers.
I just made a comment on this. He specifically mentioned heart issues/failure in younger people becoming more apparent soon. This was two years ago. Then Covid vaccines were made & ready in record-time, distributed & basic at forced on people to take. I’m no expert, but I’d assume there wasn’t close to enough testing done on them before releasing, with the these mice as control groups.
Yup a health system that relies on profit A political system that relies on profit Very sad America succumbed to those to forms. Those should be the exceptions to capitalism. For the greater benefit for Americans and we keep letting it happen
The disinterest tells me that somebody, somewhere (and maybe several somebodies), stands to lose a bunch of money and power if people start digging into this.
