The Problem With Asexual Representation 

Also this.

I mean, the erasure sucks a lot, too. I'd argue it's about as bad.

Yes, if I could change one thing about the ace rep we got from Todd, I would make it a bit less infantile. That sort of rep would be perfect

@@pranavlimaye I wish he ended with Yolanda instead of Maude, in part, because of this. We had in them the two stereotypes (the childish one and the emotionless one) and it would have been so cool if in the relationship they learned from the other and grow up together to become a balanced couple. Also honestly I just wanted to see more of Yolanda because she was super pretty and (because of her species) an indigenous mexicana so a super cool representation of a POC woman fighting with the hipersexualitation, specially considering her family.

Ahh I’m an ace attorney fan! Also..what is infatantilizzaskdkd?

^^^ 100% this we need more varied aro representation and activism!

Completely agree, it just turns out that it sort of had a opposite affect on me😅. So I've identified as ace for a few years now but I just wasn't quite sure about the romantic thing cause because people keep mushing them up a the same thing, and giving that I'm also pan I figured that it was indeed just an ace thing. It wasn't until just a few weeks ago that I've come to the conclusion that I'm actually both ace and gray aro (and pan✌️), since after having gone through months of "ace" panic at school since the topic of dating has become more prevalent, has made me realize a the panic that I've been experiencing doesn't fully qualify as a ace panic since it's not just allo stuff that they talk about, there's also romance stuff which Ive realized is what has been causing a large amount of the panic, as in aro panic. The fact that my dream relationship is something in between of a platonic and a romantic relationship, like that romantic trope of two flatmates that are more than just flatmates and it's obvious to everyone but they just chill as flatmates that just do soft stuff together. ✌️

Exactly! My aromanticness feels extremely disconnected from my asexuality yet some people use the terms interchangeably because they don't understand the difference between the attractions :///

Exactly this, all it does is hurt both communities. While there are aroace people, shout out to you guys out there, they should be defined as such in media not just called "ace". Honestly I really just want lesbian ace rep >.

Agree, especially as being just aro is so often not even recognized and I never even realized it could exist on its own without asexuality until I realized it probably applied to me and explained so much about me I thought was just me being bad at human relationships

Same here: it was Yuuri Katsuki!

Fellow demisexual here - do you still remember which one it was? I still struggle with feeling broken and defective (not just because of 20+ years of societal indoctrination before I found out what it was, but also because my libido and especially my need for intimacy hugely exceed my ability to satisfy them, and not due to a lack of "options") and I feel like I might need some good representation to feel a little less depressed about myself :')

A book with demisexual rep is Kiss her once for me by Alison Cochrun. It’s a sapphic romance and i really enjoyed it

As a demi sexual in my 20s i thought everyone was like us Then i not only learned that people are more than willing to jump right up to sex before they even know the persons name right But ive been told i will never have a relationship because of my unwillingness to fuck on the first date. And if that's true im okay with that to be honest

@@user-pi3hd2bt3f That's nonsense! Don't let them convince you of that kind of crap! Even for people who aren't demi it sounds really f*cked up to expect sex on the first date as a sort of norm or standard. If it happens and both people give their informed consent then fine but it should NOT be "normalized" in the sense that not doing so would be "abnormal". Maybe it's a cultural difference (I'm from the Netherlands) but over here I almost never hear about people jumping into bed on the first date. It's actually looked down upon more than it is perceived as "normal". Don't let them get you down! I know you already said you'd be okay with it (and good on you for maintaining your boundaries) but there's no need to worry. I'd even say that some of the best relationships are the product of friends getting to know each other better and then developing into something more. I've only had one real relationship so far but we saw each other at least four or five times before the first time we slept together. I don't think any of my close friends slept with their current partners on the first dates either. Then again, I don't think they "dated" as much as just meeting people, becoming friends, and developing into something more. Don't worry, not sleeping together on the first date will NOT hurt your chances at relationships

SAME

Same here :') You end up feeling like you're pushing the whole 'disabled people shouldn't pass on their genes' thing and it sucks

You aren't perpetuating a stereotype I promise. You are all real people, and your identity is not a stereotype. It is not and never will be your fault that people lump two identities together. I am autistic btw and also on the aromantic spectrum. We are not harming anything by being ourselves, if anything we can help show that people are different by being ourselves and sharing our experiences, showing how even if we do "fit the stereotype" the stereotype is still wrong and not all of us share the same feelings about sex and romance. Hope this made you feel better, I'm so sorry you all feel as though you're doing something wrong by being yourselves

Late but you can’t reinforce a trope bc you’re a real person. That only happens to fictions charcaters

It sucks so much, I have a bunch of traits that are purely individual to me and sometimes when I tell people about one I can SEE the cogs moving in their head and I'm like NO. THERES A REASON I PRESENTED THOSE TWO THINGS SEPERATELY.

Side note, I really want to see more ace people in happy relationships with allo people. Like, let's get some relationship anarchy and/or other types of polyamory up in here and show (for instance) me, a lesbian, can be in a qpp with my partner who is aro/ace. I love them very much and they are probably my closest partner even beyond my romantic relationships or fwb. We don't need romance or sex to find a person we care deeply about and want to stay close to for our whole life. Ok, rant over. I just hate the frequent assumption that ace = unlovable for allosexual people or that aro = unlovable for anything other than sex🤢 Platonic love exists for crying out loud. Let's even see an ace person dating a monogamous allosexual person like grey/demi/positive/neutral etc exist and I'm sure sex repulsed mono people find life partners as well.

I think my favorite part of Todd's arc exploring his asexuality was the Axolotl introducing him to her family it was like a comical extreme of "growing up in a sex obsessed society" and even though they didn't end up together it was just so silly and light hearted but still relevant to the experience of coming out to family especially when they have expectations.

Todd, maude, and yolanda! gotta love em!

THIS! also, allo/aro represenation, or even acknowledgement, is so scarce that i literally cheered out loud the one and only time i found it

fr, not every ace or aro is aroace (happy for aroaces gettin rep of course though) and all sides of the spectrum should be represented my panace heart needs ace characters who like romance

@@zipperooni It's not even that difficult,really,you just need to represent a regular love story and cut the sex part...basically you just need to represent a"family-friendly romance".Why is it so hard?To represent a love story _without_ showing or implying that the 2 lovers will have sex at one point?🤷‍♂For all I know,a lot of Disney couples could be asexual(minus the ones who had children and even those...look,we know _for a fact_ that in the Disney Multiverse babies are brought by storks...just saying...)!;-P

It’s rare for both to be romantic asexual, usually at least one is romantic allo. I myself am scared of romantic relationships just because I fear I will cause a demisexual awakening in the partner.

King Chicken from Duckman is portrayed as romantic but he has no idea what sex is and when his wife shows him he’s repulsed.

aspiring writer here, who happens to be ace! I agree a lot, there should be more asexual writers within the writer community who'd give us the actual good asexual representation that we need :) hopefully one day I publish a well-written story while representing the ace community

@@narimdraws6696 Genuine question, isn't the existence of an asexual consesus a challenge to the concept of "sex as a good or essential part of human life"? And can't the inverse be respected as well? Do you think asexuality lives in tandem with our current cultural enviroment in the west of hyper-sexuality?

im a sex... sort-of-repulsed ace! and a writer. i totally agree. and the men and women thing was right on the nose. i have never written a sex scene in my life. ive read more than the average middle-aged white woman has, but trying to write them just feels wrong. i wouldn't know where to start. in this way, i also havent really made proper asexual representation, because _everyone_ is basically asexual to me, and i should probably fix that.

@@NothingHumanisAlientoMe maybe it is a challenge. the meaning of life is, after all, reproduction. but at the same time, we are straying from that more and more. not everyone has to reproduce for our species to survive anymore, or even wants to. in the same way, not everyone has to have sex. we are not broken, and we are not the only ones to go against the ways of life

@@NothingHumanisAlientoMe I second what L L said, actually! I don't think asexuals go against anything. Allos and Aces can coexist together as far as I'm concerned. Plus, as we're reaching the maximum capacity of our population as a species, I think that asexuals are crucial to our growth as humanity. There might be more points I'm not stating here, since I'm in a slight daze from having just woke up, but here you go! :)

Wow, I never thought about this. Thank you for sharing. Being immersed in "invisible disabilities" (cognitive, primarily) as they say, I think it can be easy to forget the experiences that those with visible disabilities must face, and that's... well, not good enough, to spare the sugar coating. Thank you again, friend, and be well.

@@phelllandborn6478 And it can be easy for people with visible disabilities to forget the experiences of the neurodivergent folks and others with invisible disabilities. We very rarely cross paths, growing up as kids, because our access needs are different, and so our communities are segregated. ... Until, that is, we grow up, and confront the ableists who want to use us as props in their morality plays. We ride (and write) at dawn!✊♾🏳‍🌈♿ ✍🏾

@@CapriUni "We rarely cross paths, as kids growing up, because our access needs are different and our communities are segregated." You are just chock full of insightful treasures, aren't you? Not only this, but as groups, all manner of demographics that are identified by their disabilities (or alternative functions) by those I affectionately call "normies," tend to be viewed primarily in terms of being the "needy ones" while normies consider themselves the "helper ones" so that we end up separated from one another by all the normies that assist us. Obviously not the intention, but circumstantial segregation nonetheless. Again, I had never considered this aspect of reality, and thank you for pointing it out. I imagine intersectionality of physical and cognitive disabilities in individuals must present some pretty unique challenges for such a system. I should mention though, one of the primary problematic characteristics of invisible disabilities is that they so often go unnoticed in children and adolescents, only getting diagnosed and treated when people reach adulthood and find themselves unable to assimilate in whatever ways. Basically, the whole lack of representation issue we tend to deal with as aces, but more directly relevant in terms of medicine and healthcare. Personally, I deal with an intersected group of cognitive and developmental disabilities, in part due to an abuse history that was characterized by neglect. Even the one very physical condition that I was born with that very much affects my ability to work and function as an adult in society, wasn't diagnosed until I was 23 years old and already covered in massive quantities of scar tissue due to years of not being treated. My abuser was convinced that children had no reason to validly complain about pretty much anything, and so any expression of pain or illness was a clear cry for attention and nothing more - thus it was punished and I hid my physical illness in shame until I had a manager threaten to fire me if I didn't go to the hospital. To say the least, the aspects of my health that didn't produce such apparent evidence as nonhealing physical wounds, all got diagnosed much later than that with the exception of depression (go figure, right?) So with a string of diagnostic labels attached to me between the ages of 23 and 30, I only as an adult have even found any sense of community based in support for these struggles and this is apparently a rather common occurrence, especially for female bodied people due to the general failure of medicine throughout history to actually study female bodies for any reason not directly related to the female reproductive system and fertility. That said, I'm sure the opposite end of the visibility spectrum isn't any better. Maybe the solution here, begins in what we are doing right now: communicating across socially existing barriers and finding that common ground as humans. I genuinely feel as though you have opened up my mind to what I had not been considering, and for that, I am grateful. Best of luck to you in the march toward a better world for us all!

And of course, a physically disabled character expressing interest in sex is often played for laughs. So despite the character in question being allo, the disability = asexuality stereotype is still reinforced. Of course, jokes like these are used against other groups - fat people, the elderly, Asian men, etc - because it's 'funny' when someone considered sexually undesirable still desires sex. Again, the implicit message is that 'sexually undesirable' people are asexual, and for them to be otherwise is silly or unexpected or even threatening. So there is a kind of socially imposed 'asexuality' that's designed to keep non-normative sexuality quiet. Society is only comfortable with these people if they're performatively asexual. And of course, this hurts asexual people as well because it treats the orientation as a punishment.

@@zk5228 Oh, absolutely! This is even codified into public regulations, as disabled people (in the U.S., and I think the U.K., too) will lose their social security disability benefits if they even *act* as if they're married to someone -- and benefits agents will ask around the neighborhood if others perceive them as a couple -- if they share a magazine subscription to the household, etc.). Because if they were *really* disabled, they wouldn't be in an intimate relationship like that, right?

Well, actually I know asexual girl who feel broken.

@@temin2776 I'm not trying to exclude asexual women. I was relating the content of the video to my experience. I'm sure ace women hear similar bs

@@wegotthechoccies My good sir, I didn't mean that. I just want to say that, if we talk about representation, it turns out that representation is needed for almost every single person on Earth. I am personally for creative freedom. You see, you can come up with a character with a character about which they will say that there are no such people, but it turns out that there really is such a person. Does he not deserve representation? This is a joke, I just think that everyone is a little crazy about representation now.

@@temin2776you come off as someone who isn’t part of the communities who NEED representation. Am I correct on this?

@@cloudyskyz2237 Well, you're wrong. I'm not part of the community because I don't want to be part of the community at all. It's as if something I possess automatically makes me part of some abstract or not-so-community. But I also have a need to see a character similar to me. I just don't let this need override the rest of my beliefs, you know. In fact, if I had told some of my characteristics, perhaps I would have been automatically assigned to some community, there are so many of them. But I don't want to be judged based on that alone. I don't want it to be more important than the words I'm saying. But I'm sorry, but why did you decide that I don't need anything?

Same here, that book made me realise that I'm aroace, so it would mean the world to me to see it on screen

At first I thought you were talking about the BL manga/anime and was very confused.

hey I know your comment is like one year old but heartstopper second season just introduced an ace character apparently! his name is Isaac and he was not in the books

This isn’t majorly related but I do hope there’s a spin-off series for solitaire as I really liked that book. I know it doesn’t have much to do with the ace side but it does with the heart stopper side 😅😅

I loved that book! that was the first time I felt seen in that way

This is literally me (except I got to go to public school, yipee). I spent years wondering if I was actually ace or just full of Catholic guilt.

Yeah, I thought my sexphobia was entirely religious but I've been agnostic/atheist for 10 years and I've still never kissed anybody, so...

I'm not fully ace, but I absolutely relate to that experience. I didn't really feel any sexual attraction until my mid-twenties (probably because gender-related stuff made me quite disconnected from my body) and I just... didn't notice. Like it was an actual shock, suddenly being like "oh! Sexual attraction is a distinct feeling?!" I thought I was so morally superior for not getting into dating and sex in school. Turns out no. Just had no drive.

For me it was a cocktail of "save yourself for marriage"/"lust is a sin", awful self esteem/body image, too introverted/shy to make friends let alone lovers, "you're a minor why do you even care", stereotypes of straight men being godawful in bed, and being hamfisted all these horrible consequences of unsafe sex from a young age. It really didn't seem like much to look forward to. Hell the first thing I learned about sex is that babies come from it and I wanted *none* of that shit. At the risk of a TMI: if masturbating doesn't do it for you, neither will sex, so why bother(other than to please somebody else)?

@FlyToTheRain Protestant here, and same. My asexuality was definitely convenient, while growing up in purity culture. As a young adult, however, I started feeling like I was missing the boat. That's when I started realizing my asexual identity. Also, I like to refer to that shift as the 0-60 myth. (As in 0-60 miles per hour) Our entire life growing up, we were taught that sex is bad, wrong, gross, sinful, evil, inappropriate, etc... but as soon as you're married, it's this beautiful gift from God that you'll enjoy & be good at (despite having intentionally not paid much attention in sex-ed because you're a good Christian teen... that is: if you even had sex-ed)... and that you somehow won't feel any guilt, shame, or regrets about it once you do have sex with your spouse. (Hetero, of course) So: on your wedding day, before the ceremony... it's a bad thing. On your wedding night, after the "I do"s... it's a good thing, and expected. (And then it's "when are you having kids?")

Unwillingly being sexless/relationshipless is precisely what makes incels "incels", though. It's short for "involuntary celibate". Only that one additional requirement for being an incel is that you blame women. (Though some people don't even acknowledge that last part.) If I hear "incel", I have someone with a hostile attitude in mind. If I just hear "I am 48 and have never even kissed a woman (or a girl when I was a boy), I am not ace nor aro, though, and I would like to find love one day, I don't see this man as an incel. Though he is living celibate involuntarily.

And then you see allos on the intwrnet having aro headcanons and it's that antagonist character that they see as "so shitty I can't imagine them falling in love" 🙄 I'm not even aro (just an ace lesbian) and that still pisses me off so bad

Huh, how do involuntary celibate stay single willingly? That’s literally the opposite

@@camelopardalis84 I think they might’ve meant the way that the deeper incels go into the incel echo chamber, the more repulsive they become and therefore cement their status as an incel? Not to mention, they only seem to be celibate to begin with because they have these unrealistic and unattainable ideas about the sort of woman they want, a young, very physically attractive, virginal type. They could just hire a sex worker or get together with another incel, but noooo, not good enough for them. In that sense, it could be argued that they’re choosing to be celibate.

I can't speak for OP, but I see the willingness comes in taking the name of "incel". An individual who's never been sexual with someone else isn't an incel until they start willingly calling themselves an incel. The way that I see it, it's a level of subconscious willing by adopting the "incel" mindset. They could probably find someone if they treated women/people in general with respect, however since a core part of being an incel is treating women like shit there is a level of ignorant willingness to not educate themselves.

Yeah, amatonormativity is an issue even in the queer community. I get annoyed when people claim Elsa is lesbian. She could be straight and be somewhere on the ace spectrum or just care more about other things. To me, it’s an injustice to her character to assume she must have a partner eventually.

100% the worst part is that they tend to break their backs to screaming if you point it out. Those same mfers would get so mad if you shipped a cannon landmark homosexual relationship with a straight person and used “sexuality is a spectrum” as an excuse but then they ship Alistor/Lucifer Jughead/Archie etc with Greysexuality I’m not saying you can’t ship ace/aro characters, but people getting mad if you point out they ARE ace/aro is always the worst

Now I have something new to watch

Yes that why he's one of my favorite characters I think they did very well with his story I was able to find a lot of aspects of myself with him which made me feel happy

I find it kinda funny that his asexuality is explained as he's been seeing other humans as what's under their skin enough that they're not appealing. Basically a "what does the outside matter, theyre all the same on the inside?"

Also, he was born a girl but changed himself into a boy when he was still a baby. So, technically trans.

@@anubis7457 He is not trans. He explains that he turned himself female right before birth, everyone panicked because scans said he was supposed to be a boy, and then he transformed back...

The hipersexualization of certain ethnicities is very harmful, for sure. I feel somewhat similar when it ocmes to talking about sex, because even if I am ace, I do have sex drive, so I get excited and masturbate somewhat often. But people assume that me being ace just means that I am a non-sexual being. I don't like the idea of coming out to someone and then correcting their assumptions, so I generally just leave it at that, because what I feel with myself is no one else's bussiness. But you demi people probably have it tougher. Good luck!

Same here with both of you. I'm a gay ace guy with a sex drive. I always get irked when people automatically assume EVERY ace have no libido and are sex repulsed. I also get uncomfortable when talking about intimate sex with anyone not an SO. I can mask it to a degree if I dissociate, but it's still a highly embarrassing topic. Feels invasive too.

@@docholliday1882 I wish we lived in a world where you could just casually say that a topic is not comfortable for you and have people respect that and change the conversation accordingly. I get that therapists and people that want to help you overcome traumas, prejudice and other barriers may want to push it, but most people should just hear that and move on. It's not a big deal.

@@leticiagm4962 That would be very nice. It's like they do it on purpose just to enjoy seeing people squirm. I understand friendly teasing, but sheesh...

this is so relatable as a brazilian ace, but in my case i am sex repulsed and have no libido. Even knowing this and being supportive, my friends still end up acting in quite annoying ways. I know they’re trying to help me, but they will often infantilize me, think i’m super innocent, say jokingly that they don’t know how i can handle them or say that what they’re doing isn’t “appropriate for me” but then will continue doing it. I just kind of don’t get it, for exemple, a friend recently told me i shouldn’t read the group chat, and then i saw it was just because they mentioned vibrators, but then they will talk about sex when they’re with me. So what are the standards? I’m happy they’re trying to make me feel comfortable, but somehow they seem to alienate me both by talking about sexual themes and by trying to warn me and be helpful

As a sex-repulsed asexual, I think it could go somewhere. I still think it should just be that all aces are not attracted to sex, while still saying that it's a spectrum of sexual wants. But we all know there are allosexuals who are also sex-repulsed, so yeah.

Adding demisexuality to this makes it even worse. Every time someone asks and I reply "panromantic demisexual," I have to answer "what's that?" and then all of these questions. And since I'm not sex-repulsed, I've had people try to tell me I'm allo, like they somehow know better. Usually I just say I'm pan and move on, because arguing with people about whether they should care or if they should believe me gets exhausting.

Yeah! I really wish there was more non-sex-repulsed ace rep, even just in videos like this one.

Exactly. Even a lot of ace people say asexuality = l don’t want to have sex which isn’t true. There’s a difference in attraction and arousal.

Same, I'm glad we're getting more ace rep but so far I can't even name one character who's sex-neutral or sex-favourable (as a writer & artist I already intend to create a variety of ace characters myself, but still it would be nice to see an ace character who isn't sexualized or dehumanized regardless of their attitudes towards sex).

Are you still planning to make that video ? I would be highly interested x)

@@unegirafebleue don't tell anyone this is my spam account ahaha but here's the video on my main one: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Ojj4QLdQxow.html

Lemme know if you need a tag-team partner for the fight haha.

The creators didn't want House to be right. Not sure where I heard about this, I think in was in one of Jesse Tribble videos in his series "Everything but the Kitchen Sink". I might be able to help you find out in which one if you're interested.

@@camelopardalis84 Wasn't it the primary writer for the episode wanted it to be that he was just ace, and that house was wrong, but the show runners refused to have house be wrong. I feel like I also saw a youtube video about it, but I can't remember what video. Maybe it was the one you mentioned.

@@maplepainttube8158 I don't remember in detail, but nothing you mention struck me as incorrect. You might be completely right.

it pisses me off even more knowing that they didn't even think about the effects this could have on ace people who got a brain tumour. like, did it even occur to them they they were representing real, existing people here? maybe im biased cause it affected me personally but jfc

Forever thankful for this collaboration.

I've not read Good Omens yet, but if it reads queer, you're probably right that that comes from Pratchett. Queerness feels very present in Pratchett's solo work in a way that it really doesn't in Gaiman's imo, even just in the small details and jokes. Like...even just googling "figgin" because Pratchett promised it was just a pastry with currants showed me that he _knew_ some stuff. 😂

@@sweetpeabee4983 the angel and the demon are literally in an asexual same gender relationship. Like that's a marriageXD

The world did not deserve Terry Pratchett, but I'm glad he got to stick around a while.

I'm getting the good omens book for Cristmas and hearing about this has just made me even more excited about getting to read it✌️

Being human does involve sexuality, it's a reproductive requirement, so every human has the potential for it. It's the same in any living organism that reproduces through intercourse. That some people do not feel sexual desire at some points in their life or ever due to a wide variety of issues, and that some people choose not to act on it, is a whole other matter.

@@RebecaDogaru Not ace but this oversexualization portrayed in the media gets on my nerves. This is just lazy writing. Sexuality is only a small part of human existence and there is so much more in life.

​@@rosawolke2788 I completely agree. It is very annoying and it creates unrealistic expectations about relationships. And one doesn't need to identify as asexual to notice it. For most people, sex isn't the focus in a relationship, it's just one of the things you sometimes do with a partner, but if you read, say, romance you get the impression that this is the best thing in a relationship. That's just the thing: sexuality (=the capacity for sexual feelings) is central to humans as a species, but it's just a bodily function (that people have in varying degrees and that some choose not to act on) not the focus of one's existence. We don't need to coin a word (asexual/demisexual) for people who aren't obsessed with sex, since most people aren't.

@@RebecaDogaruI disagree with your last point of having no need to “coin a word for it”. Because society is so awfully hyper sexualized, it is seen as bad or wrong, or simply impossible, to not feel such an attraction. Asexuality and aromanticism are not that people don’t ever feel such attractions. It’s that they’re possibly literally incapable. I have been in multiple relationships with people who have broken up with me simply because I’m ace (all men). Until the idea that everyone MUST at some point in their life have sex/romance or want to have sex/romance is erased, there has to be representation for people who don’t follow that. I’ve literally had to tell strangers I’m ace just so they back off. It’s like pride month. Until the world understands people can’t change their sexuality just because it’s not the heteronormative idea, we have to have people marching proudly. Being ace or aro isn’t an “issue” as you said. It’s literally just someone’s identity. If you want to get rid of aromantic and asexual, then you goddamn better also get rid of allosexual and alloromantic.

@@cloudyskyz2237 I agree with your last point. That's exactly the thing, "allosexual" is a myth. People who don't identify as asexual (the so-called "allosexuals") don't feel like having sex all the time and with everybody and don't talk about sex all the time, I literally don't know anyone like that. Sure, some are obsessed with sex, but they're a minority, and it usually has a psychological explanation. We don't need to label everything, because labels are limiting: everyone relates to sex and relationships subjectively and, hence, differently. And how we act on our sexuality is a personal choice. So, yes, I do thing we should get rid of all these labels.

i totally get what you mean. i never thought of data being distanced from humanity by having no emotions. for me he always meant being human is more than just emotions. we was human in every way but physical. why else would he care so much about all of his friends? idk in my eyes he's not really bad ace rep. he's not an android because he has no emtions and sexual attraction but because that's just what he is.

@Hibiscus They probably dated him because they felt obligated to. You have no idea what their experience was and you jump straight to judging? Be better.

@Hibiscus You have no bloody idea what you're rambling on about. I'm demi. That's never stopped friends from asking for sex, or prevented me from feeling like I owed them. I forced myself to do whatever I could (to a point), even when I wasn't ready, because I lacked the knowledge needed to escape the situation. The end result wasn't good for either of us. And you would have done the exact same thing, in my situation. If you want to blame anyone, blame those who try to hide everything that's outside of the majority experience.

Yeah same watching sherlock and big bang theory as a teen when it came out felt validating, as it was THE Only almost representation that existed at The time, but today I think we can demand more and bettet rep.

@Hibiscus Being a teen is messy. There isn't enough context here to be making judgements like that. It's very rude.

Cool. Will try that one out! (:

I will look at it.

I also realized I'm ace while listening to Magnus Archives last year. I'd had my suspicions for several years, but the penny didn't drop until Jon's and Martin's relationship in TMA made me realize just how badly I wanted something like that for myself. (I'm now in a lesbian relationship with a demi/grey ace partner and couldn't be happier ❤️)

​@@BackAlleyTANGO It's really funny to me that after years of total confusion, the thing that made my own asexuality finally click into place was seeing jmart relationship develop and thinking "Oh good for them, good for them"

Pretty major spoilers for TMA Is he not dehumanised though? As he becomes closer to the eye doesn't he become more monstrous? I don't think he's dehumanised in an "emotional" sense because of his asexuality but he is seperatly dehumanised as the show progresses. I'm not trying to dismiss anything you're saying but I think it's worth thinking about

lol I already have this to an extent, the differences in our experience are interesting to talk about

My comment might be ignorant and foolish, but there are Aces who like sex ? What defines asexuality and how do you know you are then ? (again, not meaning to offend anyone, just really ignorant 😅)

​@valentinevintel9814 I'm pretty sure they meant the characters who like sex aren't asexual. So their theoretical show would include some non-ace people. OP, correct me if I misunderstood.

​@@valentinevintel9814Asexuality is about not feeling sexual attraction or only in specific circumstances (e.g. demisexuality also falls under the ace umbrella). Sexual attraction to a person is different from liking/wanting to engage in sexual acts just as an enjoyable activity

@@AmericanBaker - some asexuals do like sex (either to procreate, because of how their body feels, because they love their partner and feel comfortable doing that with them, etc.), but don't experience much (if any) sexual attraction. There would be non-ace characters, but not the main ones, if doing an ace-based show :)

I also forgot to mention that Yuu from Bloom Into You can be interpreted as demisexual/demiromantic. Her relationship with Touko feels natural and the bond they share helps Yuu understand and even discover feelings. Also, recently, I think maybe Fushi from To Your Eternity is on the spectrum. I mean, his whole purpose is to observe and learn, so it kinda makes sense. For example, he knows that Rean likes Gugu and Gugu likes her back, and he's really supportive of them, even if he never experienced love for himself.

@@notationmusical yesss i got aro vibes from both yuu and maki. one of my fav sapphic media, and the aspec bits are a nice bonus 😁

I LOVE HIM SO MUCH, he was the real first time i felt so represented, the way he says he always observe but don't wanna participate and there's nothing wrong with it

@@bluishblow Yeah, and I love how the anime visually portrays this sexuality. For example, he's shown in the audience in a movie theater, always watching relationships form between people on screen, like a movie, but when someone breaks the forth wall and asks him out, he gets a bit distraught and says he's not interested, and almost leaves the theater. That is, until, Yuu and Touko show up on screen, and once again, he's sitting down to watch this relationship unfold. Another instance of this is with baseball. The people who experience feelings towards one another and pursues a relationship hit a homerun. Meanwhile, he's on the bleachers, cheering everyone on. Notice how every time Maki's on screen, he's observing other people, just like the audience. Sorry for the long ramble, but I love Maki's character. Another aroace character is Unaminous from a manga, Our Dreams at Dusk, and that further dives into more LGBT topics.

@@Splatsuma Sometimes, I wonder if harem protagonists are on the ace/aro spectrum. Idk why that popped into my head, but I thought it might be cool XD.

While, yeah, autistic people are more likely to be ace than neurotypical people, ace autistic people are still the minority of autistic people. Ableism is annoying.

I’m on the autistic spectrum. I have very sensitive hearing and struggle with social interaction. I can’t handle change and I hate it when my room gets messy, I also am constantly paranoid that I’ve lost my stuff even when I know I left it where I always leave it. So I think I can speak on this. It’s so annoying for people to think that people with autism act like children. Or they Infantilize them. I wanna be taken seriously not treated like a baby just because I’m autistic. And asexual people who just so happen to be autistic do not act like children. They act like asexual people. Who are just a bit different. That’s it. LITERALLY. People sometimes even fetishize autistic ace people. And it makes me extremely uncomfortable to think that this is what people think and do with people like me.

Oh! Hey! I'm also AroAce and Autistic! 😁

I have some very good autistic aro and/or ace characters! Might be because I am all of those three things though.

good omens characters are ace? i have a friend whos really into it and i might consider reading the book

@@hello_ree Az and Crowley are described as genderless and sexless in the book :) however, that same part also says that people often think Aziraphale is “gayer than a tree full of monkeys on nitrous oxide”. Read the book, it’s fantastic and it’s the tip of the iceberg for how great Terry Pratchett is

But you still have the problem of them not being human. I think Stat from Q-force was good. Yeah she had the technophile problem, but it was made very clear that she was capable of romantoc interest and didn't care about sex. She wasn't repuled by it, but it wasn't something she felt was neccesary to have a fulfilling relationship. So it showed that Ace, Aro, and sex repulsion didn't neccesarily have to all go together. If the show had continued they could have given her a human partner and still kept the "I dont care about touching, I care about you" aspect.

@@stevenhiggins3055 yeah it bugs me with the inhuman part too. The only rep I can think of is that dude from Bojack horseman

I rolled my eyes, it was a bit too on the nose

@@Abraham-gf1oi it was supposed to be, no? i would imagine the woman didn’t want to beat around the bush because of how upset the girl seemed. imo stating it plainly is much better than being vague and having people argue over whether it’s representation or not

Me too, it hit harder than I expected :)

Yes. It really hit Hard 🖤🤍💜

@@Abraham-gf1oi im not asexual but I think it was really well done because she didn’t talk to the girl she talked to the audience and some of them maybe didn’t even knew the concept of asexuality ^^

Im propably Demi

imo it's very obvious data "feels" things in his own way, throughout TNG he develops very subtly and it feels intentional that's he's very conscientious and empathic while still saying he experiences "no emotion" because his experience is simply different to most humans

@@bro-rm5xo yes, I totally agree with this. As an autistic person, to me Data being perceived as "emotionless" (and believing this himself) maps on so closely to neurodivergent experiences. For ex., it's long been assumed that autistic people can't experience empathy, and many of us are perceived as "robotic" and cold. Neither of these things are true; it's that our expressions of emotion, compassion, empathy, etc. tend to take a different form (and the way we experience those things can sometimes feel different than it might for neurotypicals). It seems so obvious to me that Data experiences emotions, just in his own way. But due to the ignorance of the society, his difference is framed as lack. Of course, the writers didn't intend this, but they inadvertently created a really solid representation of that ND experience

Yeah, Data has emotions, but he's been told so often that he doesn't and that his experience is wrong that he doesn't even have names for them, and it always makes me sad.

@@Alex-ph5ir I'm on the spectrum, and I believe I feel empathy very strongly. I do not understand the belief that all autistic people have no empathy, that would be sociopathy or psychopathy.

@@bro-rm5xo Oh I also see it in all AI, and/or any house hold object, as Japan also believes all things have souls and thus = (sentient) energy? "All energy is consciousness and thus sentent? Atomic elecromagnetic "bonding"?)

YES. THIS. I actually always had this exact situation happen to me, specifically with Crowley and Az. It always just leaves me in such an awkward position because a majority of my friends are either allo or alloace, so they read that particular relationship as romantic when I can't wrap my head around it as romantic. It also usually leaves me kind of quiet in the conversation because I just Don't relate to seeing it as a romantic thing.

@@Snowleaper What's alloace? I thought allo and ace were opposites

@@dwoktheraynejonsohn4849 Alloace is somebody who is not aromantic but is ace. Allo is a term that can be used for non-ace people and non-aro people, possibly with the relevant -sexual or -romantic suffixes if needed.

Omg THIS. I am always drawn to the relationships that most people scream queerbait over. And a lot of the time I do see that and agree the writers are doing it on purpose, but plenty of times it isn't like that even on the writers' part and it just reads as QPR to me. But society makes you feel bad for not wanting that gay romance.

@@dwoktheraynejonsohn4849 Allosexual and asexual are opposites but you can be alloromantic and asexual so you experience romantic attraction but not sexual attraction.

All of my characters are aroace unless otherwise stated. It's basically the default. (Seriously why is "straight" considered the default and not aroace? The number line starts at 0! Also all humans start out as aroace because babies are aroace!)

Just curious, but did you also have a moment where you realized none of your characters had romantic partners unless you specifically designed them to? Cause I had that and it was a very funny “oohhhhh, that makes sense” moment

I know the words but I'm still not sure. Because if ace people can have sexual desires, masturbate willingly, have sex with other people, and like those other people, I'm not really sure I can tell what's left. Like, you like a person very much, platonically and romantically, and you want to have sex. Semantically, I can see that it doesn't mean you want to have sex with that person, but in practice, what is the difference?

@@tymondabrowski12 not all asexual people are sex repulsed, and even those that are sex repulsed, they still have something called libido? Like... What. You can have sex with someone you're not attracted to because you need/want that specific form of release, or you can have sex with your partner even though you don't want or need sex but do it because you love your partner. How is any of this so foreign to you?

Asexuality is a spectrum but the one common demonominator is the lack of a sexual attraction response with a random stranger or body part they come across. It's not foreign. We all lack that response sometimes. For them it's all the time. The response is triggered for them sometimes if they're demisexual for example. But not triggered with random beautiful people in the way it is for others.

Think of the standard sexual medium as 2D there's a X and Y axis so there's straight, gay and all in between. Aromance/Asexuality is the Z axis bringing sex in to 3D plane where somebody can be Pansexual yet overall an Ace person. The normal mindset is very close to people being "hypersexual" by default. Which is why you'll see people trying WAY to hard, then hurting them and others. Like sex is X and Y, flat 0, 0 = Hetero and 10, 10 = Homo. So there's no concept of "on or off" So this also falls into tropes of men not being into a cute woman that he's "gay" by default since he has to be *on* at all times. It's legit a trope a lot of people don't think about and ironically reinforce. Since I seen "allies" say I'm *suspect* because I'm not into somebody they are.

​@@GeneralRania Since YT doesn't want me to comment on your perspective. I'll sum it up. Sexuality in the mainstream is X and Y, we can infer what those are so the YT bots don't eat this comment. So Ace is the Z axis. Z can be seen as simple on and off. the X and Y was always *on* so a lot of people of that perspectives never understood there's an *off* If that helps.

I was thinking the same thing!😂

I never watched any Star Trek but after seeing these excerpts in this vid I think I should because I fell in love with Data immediately. Just... perfection. I already can see why he became so iconic. Also I don't think he was ever meant to be anyone's representation. I don't know for sure but I doubt this concept even existed when the original Star Trek was made.

Same 😭 He may not be the kind of ace rep we need/deserve to see, or even intended, but he felt like the ace rep that we *live* and experience up until the point where we go “oh shit, I have an actual label for what I’m experiencing, cool!” This isn’t an excuse to not have intentional ace rep written by diverse ace people, but those kinds of experiences still feel valuable to me, because they still put me on the path to figuring out who I am as a person.

As a (then) undiagnosed autistic person, I identified with him. ALOT. The fact that all these identities are easily conflated tells me maybe we should just let people be whoever they are as individuals? But then I'm autistic and can be way too literal. That said, the whole "acting out romantic behavior because it's expected" thing resonated with me too. But even at the time I felt the conflation of narrow sexual expectations with basic humanity to be more a satirical commentary on society than any sort of endorsement of this narrow minded attitude. Again though, maybe I just didn't get it

​@@nobody-nk8pdthis would have been the 90s so it would have been a thing but not publically understood

I love those words omg. Ima go fall down a research rabbithole to see if lovequeer fits me as an identity. Thank you for sharing!!!

Lovequeer aromantic here. Thanks for writing! I was about to write this comment myself but started scrolling down to see if anyone else had done it already. 🖤🤍💚

As someone who is both a lovequeer and loveless aromantic, thank you for metioning this, and to add on, these labels are not mutually exclusive. You can be lovequeer and loveless, and it doesn’t have to be contradictory. For me being loveless means that as a whole i dont want love nor do i think it is necessary. I don’t believe that love in any form makes us human, but as someone who is also lovequeer, i can define what love i experience and what that means to me. I can be free from the belief that i need love yet also form my own path on what love means to me and what i want to define as love :)

@@oodlesofowls That's a great point, thank you!

@@oodlesofowls i have been trying to figure out wether i was aro for quite some time now and this comment is so helpful in actually figuring out as to how i actually feel, so thanks for explaining it so well :)

Im Ace Demi propably

Wait does this mean the Cursed Child play actaully improved it, since it implied (via a biological child) that his lack of love was not related to being uninterested in sex? This is a horrible revelation to me. I cannot believe I am being supportive of the Cursed Child. Oh god no.

I mean we are talking about JK Rowling here. She's never just been a transphobe, that's just what she's most loud about. She has shown many times over that she only seems to see poc and the rest of the LGBTQ+ as very limited stereotypes she can use for diversity brownie points.

She apparently has a thing with characters needing to be parents. Also voldermort was apparently conceived from r/pe. I get being born into an abusive situation isn’t going to be the best, but I don’t think it’ll make you loveless and evil. Also is it kind of victim blamey? Like if his father just loved his mother and wasn’t traumatised, voldermort wouldn’t be evil. Come on JK, it’s the only situation like this in the whole story, don’t make the only character who was born from a ‘loveless’ way he the ultimate evil.

@@HiBuddyyyyyy I'm not good with English, so I'm sorry if there are grammatical errors, but oh well. Voldemort cannot feel love not because of Amortentia or because of how he was born, but because of Merope, since according to Rowling's words, if Merope had chosen him instead of choosing to die, Voldemort would never have existed, unlike Harry, who is his counterpart since Lily chose to die for him (Harry), to save him, making this act of love of giving one's life for another a protection of ancient magic, like there was never anyone to teach him what love is, Tom He never knew what the power of love is, because part of the prophecy said "And he will have a power that the dark lord does not know", which gives more meaning to the death of Harry's parents.

Thank you. I was literally going to leave a comment like this.

David J Bradley has a very good video breaking down a lot of major examples of his a-coding !

Hmmmm, no. He's not, canonically.

@@fannishfanning160 what do you mean? It’s never stated bluntly but does it need to be?

Omg- this! People shipping John and Sherlock, which like I can understand why- but I personally don’t ship them together to me they could be good representation of a Queer-Platonic Relationship. But also Sherlock is and always will be AroAce to me Also tying in with the last point Sherlock is so autistic coded

yes yes yes! I actually was happy about Sheldon getting together with Amy bc this development showed that we ace people do in fact have emotions and are able to love and be in a relationship. I hate it when people treat "asexuality" as a synonym for "being single" or "emotionless" or whatever bc that's not what it is.

But he was explicitly misoginistic. I wouldn't be friends to someone who claims that women are "scientificaly" aka his ego talking, intelectualy inferior.

It is extremely unhealthy to only have sex with someone when you do not want to, just to benefit them. I highly encourage you to seek help with this.

@@somberpaw I think what the OC meant wasn't about doing something you don't like for your partner, but more something you don't really care about for them. Lots of people do stuff like watching their favourite shows together for their partner, even thought you yourself aren't that interested in them. For many ace people (including me), sex is just something that has no real effect on ourselves, but we might still have it, because our partner enjoys it and it makes us happy that someone we love is happy.

​@@somberpaw they are saying that some of us ace people will have sex with are partners to make them feel happy (if that is what they want) we really don't care about it so what does it do to us it ain't wrong to see your partner happy in can make people happy to see them happy

I’ve read this before, and I find it so funny because of how accurate it is for me. I’m a sex-repulsed hetero-romantic asexual and I absolutely love dragons, always have lol I am totally in support of adding a dragon to the asexual and aromantic flags!

Hi! I am not really into dragons. They're cool and all, but I am far, far more into magic. (Not the game)

Lmao I hate dragons 😭

I totally agree with you there. The show is an adaption of the book he has written with Terry and almost everything they added came from the sequel they planned together. I can totally understand why he wouldn't want to change anything there without Terry's permission. Afaik, the next two seasons will be far less oriented on the work they did together, which hopefully means there will be more room to explore Crowley and Aziraphale's relationship, but at this point I can respect his decision to leave things that aren't clearly stated in canon (in the book or on screen) open for everybody to interpret however they want. I can think of several authors who should have done that...

"a desire not to exclude fan interpretations" this exactly! I'm actually incredibly grateful that Gaiman hasn't explicitly said "they're asexuals in a queerplatonic relationship" or "they're gay and they fuck". Everyone who sees themselves in the story can take from it what they want/need -- I personally love the idea of a committed partnership/relationship/whatever that doesn't fit into any labels and is based on mutual understanding/respect/fondness.

Totally! it's so normal to doubt your orientation because of something else or lack of proper representation. I love that you feel secure in your identities and understand that they are their own thing. And all of them are valid. I wish there was better representation for autism too, that would be so helpful!

aro-ace autistic here too! i always worry about sharing too many labels with people because once you have two unrelated and uncommon traits people immediately become psychologists and tell you why you feel the way you do people forget that i’m living as me, so i know myself best. i’ve had all the same thought processes and worries they did, because i’ve internalized so much of my identity. i’ve thought it through much more than they have, and i should be the authority over understanding and explaining my experience. maybe my asexuality and my autism do intersect somewhere, but for many aro-ace or autistic people it doesn’t. there are plenty of autistic people who have healthy sexual or romantic relationships, and there are neurotypical people who don’t. im not an alien because of my disabilities or my lack of sexual attraction, im alien because of people who assume all my humanity is worth is sex and productivity. im an alien because i was made to feel alien. correlation doesn’t equal causation. i wish people wouldn’t see us as a cheap way to avoid a characters sexuality or appear unfeeling. i wish there was more aspec representation but it’s definitely better than it was before. im personally waiting for disney to make an actual canon asexual main character who also has a personality, fingers crossed we’ll get them by 2065 if we’re lucky /lh

I feel that hard. I'm an aroace autistic as well (although I found out I was autistic first). I'm glad to see more aro/ace rep as well although it's slow going

Another aro/ace autistic here, when I told my family therapist I don’t feel sexual attraction she said, to my face, that it was just because I’m autistic and I shouldn’t see it as a separate thing. Needless to say, didn’t go to that therapist again. I really do wish there was more ace/aro rep (and ace and aro rep as separate things), and autistic rep. It would make so many lives so much easier :(

Yes! That would be awesome. I never read that sign, which is very sad. If you have to be actively looking to find it, it is not proper representation.

Sheldon isn't actually asexual, he's demisexual. His emotional bond with Amy left him open to a sexual experience with her.

@@phillipwalk3r And even then, he isn't explicitly stated to be demi. That's not good representation, the same way he isn't stated to be autistic.

@@leticiagm4962 That's not my point. My point is apparently he is asexual when he isn't. Good representation or not, he is who he is.

@@phillipwalk3r Yes, I’ve also always considered Sheldon as demisexual, but the emphasis on my original comment on the word EXPLICIT refers to characters that have used the word demisexual to refer to themselves within the show. Sheldon fits the demisexual experience but nobody in the show ever confirmed he’s demi. People who don’t know what demisexuality is, won’t learn the term ‘demisexual’ from this TV show because it’s never mentioned by name.

Latin has been around for a very long time. Most words in european languages are pretty much just latin stapled together until it delivers an idea. Once you know enough roots and modifiers it doesn't even have to be a real word to deliver the exact meaning you want to someone who's never heard it before.

I do agree with you but I think the point they were making was that Gaiman claimed Az and Crow just didn't get "silly human stuff like human genders" despite living amongst humans for thousands of years and actively engaging in gender portrayals.

"there is no way for a body to be non-binary" Unless you're intersex. But yeah, I agree with you there.

Actually a body can have a lot of nb characteristics.

The Sandman and American Gods exist. He's been writing queer human characters since the 80s.

@@eldron29-a54 but you don’t need those to be NB. I’m NB myself and it makes me so stressed to think I’m not good enough to be who I want to be. Just because I can’t get surgery because I still live with my transphobic parents and I’m not even 17 yet. It makes me feel so hollow and unworthy. If I can’t be non binary. And feel comfortable in my skin I’m not gonna pick to be a trans guy or a cis female. I’d rather not exist. Imagine telling a women that she can’t be a women because she doesn’t wear dresses or doesn’t completely pass as a women. But she doesn’t wanna be anything else. She’d probably not wanna exist either.

I feel for you! Also, that's a really weird thing for an uncle to say XD must have been quite awkward. I'm demisexual myself, I've only told my partner and a friend so far, so not sure how others feel yet. We believe you and we know from experience that you can have successful and happy relationships if you want one :) I've been in an 8 year relationship and it's going well so far. Big hugs!

Can completely relate on the being told no sex means no successful relationship. It can be hurtful and damaging, especially to hear from family members who you may hope more than anyone would understand and accept you for who you are

Just means that they have issues they're taking out on you. Their problem, not yours.

That's bullshit. Signed, an ace lesbian with her ace future wife

You will still find the love of your life, possibly another ace person. 💓

thank you for the recommendation, i love this!! especially as a biromantic ace :D

Oh hi, nice to see you here

Ooo Im reading Love less. Its very good books, but I feel quite Called out on Some behaviours, but I still Im not sure is I could be aro/ace

Just added to my TBR 🥰

When the discussions with Parvati about being ace came up in the game I actually cried. I liked the character already so much and then she was an ace, like me. On top of Parvati being ace, it also hit me hard that you, as the player character, could say that you're an ace as well (the term was not used but still) and Parvati being so happy that there's someone else who doesn't experience sexual attraction. It felt so so so good, like nothing I've ever experienced before, at least not that strongly.

What platform is this game on? I find it hard to find any representation of ace and romantic... Like the two can't coexist without asexual attraction (trying to explain aesthetic attraction to people seems to always go over their heads and leaves me feeling pretty useless)

@@writteninstarlight1649 It's on ps4, Xbox one, switch, and pc Make sure you get *The Outer Worlds* and not accidentally The Outerwilds they are two different space games.

I went into the game not knowing that, so imagine my euphoria at being pleasantly surprised! I loved the representation there 100%

@@writteninstarlight1649 xbox, Playstation, switch , and PC

Im working on one rn

I would totally read that

This sounds amazing

Nobody knows you better than you know yourself. I bought into the "late bloomer" thing, because I eventually found someone I fell in love with and am greatly attracted to, but something still didn't feel "right". Despite being in a sexual/romantic relationship, I still found I had trouble relating with others in terms of how they experience the world and their feelings when it comes to sex and sexuality. I can't just look at another person and immediately desire them sexually, that's just weird, but most people do that it seems, by the way they express themselves. I thought that was just exaggerated in entertainment media for the longest time, but the more I talk to people, the more it seems this is actually how they are. It's kinda cringey to me, to be honest. Anyway, like I said, I still felt different, despite having "finally bloomed", so when I heard about someone's experience being demisexual, and felt I could finally relate to how someone else experiences sexuality and attraction, I looked into it, and realized I fit somewhere in this grey spectrum of asexuality, that is demisexuality. It finally makes sense to me.

@@jelatinosa I relate to this so much! I’m also demisexual!

Exactly! I follow the Greek Heroic Tradition (it was all about men, but I am a tomboy, so I don’t see it as a lack of female representation) and that’s what I’m into. I don’t understand it when people (even aro-aces to whom I do relate on the practical level) say that they’re not interested in “pleasing a partner,” because in my mind the central most special relationship was never about trying to please some random partner who’s disconnected from my reality - instead it is about going on adventures and changing the world together; and yes totally admiring this involved personality of the other, and their interests and joy/pleasure they feel in themselves. Platonicism is romantic, physical and spiritual connection between two men, but the people for whom the Heroic Tradition was written were women… ie. it’s a form of initiation not into masculine ideals, but into queerness on one hand, and women’s liberation from restrictive roles on the other.

@@jelatinosa I love this comment. I was told I was a late bloomer even in middle school, and I was fully convinced. But I never really cared about what orientation I was, and I never looked at someone and thought "wow, I'd smash." I thought that was just a trope in media as well, but my friends have confirmed it to be real. Even despite never feeling that, people still tried to tell me I couldn't be ace, which is absolutely wild on so many levels. The weirdest thing to me is how sex is prioritized over romance, and then romance over friendship. I've always put more energy into my friendships than anything else, so seeing the opposite in media was always strange. Now I'm comfortable in my identity and jokingly call myself homiesexual :3

I'm someone with schizoid personality disorder and i think it would be a thousand times better if instead of coding all asexual characters as autistic, they would consider the possibility of them being schizoid. Most schizoids are asexual anyway, and my head cannon is that Sherlock is 100% schizoid. He fits all the criteria!! So yeah, i find it a little ignorant to always associate autism with asexuality.

​@@babyblue3717 I'm ace, but I always suspected I may be schizoid too. The checklist makes too much sense. Especially given my upbringing.

@@babyblue3717 sherlock in general seems to be universal representation :P for example, he also fits the criteria for ADHD Primarily Inattentive (he can only focus if the task is about something he's interested in, his things are in disarray, he generally has trouble "adulting", etc.) and he even has some hyperactivity symptoms too. That of course doesn't have much in common with asexuality, though I'm sure some people with ADHD just are like that. Though, it might be just that he finds it boring (as he says himself, "dull"). I wouldn't be sure about schizoid, because he does seem to want to engage and pursue a reliationship with John and his not-a-landlady. But I'm not a psychiatrist and he's a fictional character anyway.

i’m sure you meant no harm, but please don’t stigmatize being ace (or hypersexual for that matter) by saying that other’s are just “normal” which implies being ace is not normal. really not a good look. also i’ve literally never heard of someone being “just a little autistic” that’s not a thing. you are just as autistic even if you don’t fall into stereotypes or “appear” to be autistic to others. we can talk about the low vs high functioning ableist bs but that’s a whole conversation in itself. again, i’m sure you meant no harm and just worded things poorly, but words do matter so please try to be thoughtful of others and not invalidating of their experiences in an attempt to validate your own.

@@rayne333 There are definitely degrees of neurodivergence, which one could describe on a scale of "severity." As someone with severe ADHD, I often feel the need to explain that I am not "just a little" ADHD because my social functioning is significantly more impaired by my neurodivergence than people tend to be familiar with (even people familiar with ADHD). I understand that there's an issue with regards to ranking the "legitimacy" of someone's neurodivergence based on its severity; that is to say, often people treat "minor" neurodivergence as less real than "major" neurodivergence and this is a problem, however it's also important to have the language to describe the degree to which one's neurodivergence impacts their functioning. Right now, the language we use to describe that is in terms of severity, and I do think it is possible to decouple concepts of severity and legitimacy.

I'm pretty sure that the show and the book ate supposed to see their relationship differently. (As in the book their relationship really is solely platonic, but the show is rather having it as a romantic story, because Neil Gaiman wanted to show both of the interpretation of the story. Or at least I think that he presented it like that.

Hi there, for my money, I think you should consider giving season 2 a watch with an open mind if you haven't already :) I really don't think the kiss negates any ace/queerplatonic readings of their relationship, personally! There's a lot of important context around it happening, and beyond that QPRs can and do involve a variety of different types of intimacy. To me ineffable husbands are ace rep, regardless of what will end up happening in that department

I watched the show and there is this one character who always asks Crowley if Aziraphael is his boyfriend and I'm like.... why? Can't two men be in a very close friendship and that's it? And yeah that kiss... I was so cringed out by it and it also felt so out of place. I read the book years back and re-read it before Season 1 was out. Never, ever felt that the characters were attracted to each other in that sense. They obviously love each other but not sexually. The romantic attraction I can see, very clearly actually. But sexual, nope. It just wasn't there and I don't think the characters were conceived with that in mind. I'm very reluctant to check out Season 3 when it comes out.

Wow I didn't know I apparently don't have consciousness, good to know /s

@@kai_fatallysapphic does /s mean serious or sarcastic?

@@merrymermaid sarcastic. I believe /srs means serious

god i wish i didnt have a consciousness

What about God?

As an aroace person ,i think you have the terms a bit confused bewthen our sexual orientacion and the libido 💜💚 I think the libido and desire are lower ,but not your BI atracction 💙💖💜 But is okay if you like this terms better and feel welcome in the ace community . Asexuality is not having sexual atraction . Meaning I dont found anyone sexually atractive , dont feel the sexual atraction to another person (same with my aromantic part ) Also *sexual atraccion (having a desire to be sexual with someone ) is different to * aesthetic attraction (finding someone pretty /beautiful ) and *sexual /aestetic are different of romantic atraction (wanting to be in a romantic relationship with someone ) 💚💜 But i still have a lot of libido ,and like having sex (in fact i like it so much i wanted to be a sexologist ) Both are separate , im a ace with a high libido . I think this is not so talked about , allmost all ace representacion is sex repulsed( which of course is valid ) but never been able to connect much with the issues they have cause im asexual like them ,i understhan the pressure of """being normal (being in a romantic sexual relationship""" like when emily was a teen and told tod "you have to like someone " . I identify with all that ..but also i like sex , i really like sex ,just cause i dont feel /see atraction in my partner dosent mean i dont like the relationship we have . When most of the character arcs ends happy with the ace character not being pressure to be in a romantic relation /not having sex . Or when the character agrees on the sex to have kids . (I dont want kids at all ,i actually dislike a lot that trope ) Makes me feel a bit out of place ,i sometimes i even doubt when i always been so sure and proud to found who im ,since i 1 found the term at 13 y/o in tumblr . We need more ace representation of all , and more representation of platonic relationships .

@@charlott2200 Very true! There's a big difference between being asexual and not wanting sex for a period of time. Depression, medication, physical/emotional trauma and many other things can effect someone's libido and/or ability to feel sexual attraction without making them asexual. I love the metaphor that's common in the community that sexual attraction is like having an appetite while libido is like feeling hungry. One is a mental/emotional desire, the other is a physical feeling, and they can exist separately just like how your body will still eventually be hungry even if you don't feel like eating. I never see this distinction talked about outside of the ace community, because I suppose for allo's they happen together so there's no need, but it is an important one to understand.

I also don't believe asexuality is a temporary identity. If people feel that way then so is homosexuality, heterosexuality, and bisexuality and I don't believe that.

as an aroace person labels are about making you feel comfortable. i don't really see any problem with someone who is identifying as asexual bc they're on meds or as a non permanent label, sexuality is fluid and it's not my nor anyone else’s decision how someone else wants to identify.

@@theTruthSeekerishere asexuality isn't homosexuality or heterosexuality though. and sexuality is fluid, so you could use homosexual heterosexual bisexual etc as “temporary” labels if you wanted to.

I don’t think the answer is cut out female characters. There would have been only 2 female main characters. And Amy was one who wasn’t ‘conventionally attractive’ (I thought she was pretty), so that’s cool too. We already have so very many male characters, I don’t know how I feel about chopping even the semi-decent female ones out. Also asexual people can have sex for a partner and enjoy it, I think it’s the only time I’ve seen that portrayed at all. Jeez, I’m defending the Big Bang theory. What has happened to me.

I loved seeing that, and it made it all the more disappointing when that Riverdale series came out.

@@daffyphack Saying this as a aroace Riverdale didn’t have to make Jughead aro-ace. In the past Jughead did have some love interests. He was even in his own love triangle. Temporarily though. Personally I’m happy riverdale he isn’t aroace. The show is terrible. I abandoned it years ago. If they kept Jughead asexual I would have continued watching for the representation. But my eyes would bleed at everything else.

I'd agree with muderbot being a far more complex example of non human non binary and asexual simply because the whole point of the series is about questioning assumptions we have about personhood. It's a far more conscious exploration of this trope than most. Similarly for me, murderbot works as an exploration of neurodivergance- it isnt neurodivergant because it's a robot, it's a robot who is also neurodivergant.

I agree!!! I both adore and relate to Murderbot's general annoyance when confronted with the sexual stuff. It's such a fascinating exploration of person hood and I desperately want to see other SecUnits going rogue so we can see how different their takes on things are. Maybe Murderbot's neurodivergence is what gave it the edge to hack its own programming? Maybe its aroaceness allowed it some sort of advantage? That'd be so cool to see explored.

And I'd add that apart from Murderbot being pretty awesome, it inhabits a galaxy where sexuality, gender, and relationship status are basically just a descriptor, not anything to be fussed over. Murderbot chooses to remain sexless and genderless when it has to make some adjustments to its physical composition. However, even if it doesn't ever get straight-up romantic and lovey-dovey, it is more than capable of forming deep attachments to people (of all kinds).

Thank you! Well said. I scrolled so far to find this. Now I don't have to write this all out, haha.

My answer is that sympathy is bad always. It's an inherently selfish experience, at someone else's expense. It doesn't matter why you express sympathy, you're always a self-centered asshole for doing it. Empathy is something entirely different though, and I think that's what you're actually describing. The understanding of the thoughts and feelings of others, that's empathy. Sympathy is just connecting someone else's experience to your own and arrogantly presuming everyone else must react in exactly the same way as you did.

Thank you! I don’t like Data slander, he’s a character which I have always related and is always a unique exploration into being human. Yeah, it comes up that he’s odd, because the show is made for a wide array of people who need to be shown that he might be *odd* (compared to you) but he’s still a person, and a damn good one at that. Data storylines always resonate very deeply with me as he’s the first character I saw that really showed how my inner monologue and feelings looked on screen. Hell, one episode even repaired my broken relationship with my family. I get the frustration about him being ace being less than ideal from a few angles, but if Data were written differently then people like me would lose our representation, and a major role model that we look up to. And I wouldn’t have a relationship with my brother.

I have thought that too, but I also have considered that he is asexual but sleeps with Amy for her benefit, seeing as he has to schedule when they do it on their honey moon or else he knows he'll not think to initiate it. But it could go either way. It's kind of hard to guess because I'm pretty sure the writers were not intending either.

@@maplepainttube8158 the writers have said they didn't write a lot of stuff that way but Jim Parsons specifically chose to act the part that way. He has said in interviews that he chose to act Sheldon with autistic traits to him as thats how he interpreted the character when he read the script. Sheldon just always felt to me like he was somewhere on the Ace Spectrum. His disdain for babies and pregnancy, his complete obliviousness at first to when Ramona Newitsky was crushing on him and when she was trying to steal him away from Amy, the long time it took for him to be physical with Amy. And a lot of his inimate moments with her are for her benefit. He snuggled with her when she was upset and hurting not because he wanted to. He was giving her comfort but snuggling is still intimate.

I still thought of him as ace and aro even after dating Amy and getting married. Some ace and aro people do end up getting married for companionship and social benefits or to raise kids and things like that. It doesn't change their sexuality. The growth he experienced was in how to understand other people better and not always have it be about him. Like having sex with her on her birthday because it was important to her. The aftermath scene where she is blissful and he looks unimpressed was very telling to me. It wasn't a scene where he suddenly understands what the fuss over is about. But the rest of Rowan's points were spot on to me. This is the only area where I disagreed.

@@realMacMadame I agree. Whether it was a writing decision from the shows creators or an acting choice by Jim Parsons I deffo read Sheldon as both on the autism spectrum and the Ace spectrum.

that's the default human setting, we just happen to live in a hyper sexualized culture that makes it seem weird

Hello again! Also, loveless is an amazing book.

Sheldon for me is still seen as asexual your right that they were close a line in the show was by leanord saying “we have been aprating under the assumption that he has no deal” of course with asexuality being a sexuality/sexual orentiation asexuality would be his “deal” but still

L Word Generation Q ?

@@polishalastor142 what?

David J Bradley is an aroace youtuber and has longform videos about aspec representation and experiences!

for blogs, theacetheist, thethinkingasexual, asexualagenda, and nextstepcake, all on wordpress!

@@meddlesome- Thank you so much! I'll check them out now.

The main character in Loveless by Alice Oseman is ace and I’d highly recommend it because it’s amazing.

adding more recs here so more people can see them! - The Grimrose Girls by Laura Pohl (aroace and bi demisexual mcs) - The Art of Saving the World by Corinne Duyvis (ace lesbian mcs) - Sawkill Girls by Claire Legrand (ace straight mc) - Tash Hearts Tolstoy by Kathryn Ormsbee (ace straight mc) - Hazel's Theory of Evolution by Lisa Jenn Bigelow (aroace mc) - Rick by Alex Gino (aroace mc) - Summer Bird Blue by Akemi Dawn Bowman (aroace mc) - Into the Blue by Pene Henson (gay demisexual mc, ace sapphic side character) - Gender Queer by Maia Kobabe (ace author, autobiographic comic) - Now Entering Addamsville by Francesca Zappia (ace straight mc) - Radio Silence by Alice Oseman (achillean demisexual mc) - Every Heart a Doorway by Seanan McGuire (ace straight mc) - Unburied Fables (anthology centred on ace rep)