If you're having trouble getting the Xtract to stick, this is what you need: Festool 150 (6") Padsaver: amzn.to/3EGSaWH Festool 125 (5") Padsaver: amzn.to/3EHZl0S, 3m HookIt: lddy.no/1dc4t
This video almost makes me want to cry. My wife got me the ETS125 as a present last April and we went thru 2 sanders and she felt so bad and I felt so bad telling her the fancy ass awesome sander she got me isn't even holding sandpaper when my crap Ridgid has no problem. This has been an ongoing issue with Festool and Amazon forever. It's been sitting in its fancy case in the corner of my garage for four months. I CAN'T WAIT for this pad to get here. I can't properly describe the amount of time and energy we both have put into this stupid stupid problem and it's amazing to hear my exact words said back to me in this video as far as "OMFG if you're not going to include it at least TELL me this is an issue!" net paper is extremely popular so this should be a very common problem. Thank you so much for this video!!!
The ets 125 comes with a normal piece of granat sandpaper. I understand you wanted to use net paper but did you not think to put on the piece they included to make sure there wasn't a problem with the sander pad or do you only use net paper? Did you let it sit there for 4 months just because it couldn't use net paper? I have so many questions. Did your sander not come with the one very generous sheet of 120 paper festool bestows on there 249 dollar sander kit? What the hell happened for you to not figure this out?
Am I the only person in the world that enjoys sanding? Sanding and applying finishes are truly the most enjoyable part of most projects for me. Not only makes a huge difference in final result, but it's also almost impossible to screw up.
It takes a long time to go through all the grits. It requires a respirator or you’re compromising your health. It’s loud. It requires no skill. It’s not satisfying to go from not sanded to sanded. So yeah the community is pretty vocal about it and it seems like you’re definitely in the minority. Finishing, on the other hand, is enjoyable. At least the first coat, when the wood goes from raw to what it will look like finished. Multiple coats doesn’t really change anything so that’s not as rewarding.
Hi, good vid. I agree that mesh abrasives don't do backing pads any favours generally, but just FYI with Festool this is exaggerated as they make their own hook & loop (it's not regular velcro) which is supposedly better, and also - shocker - happens to make Festool sanders incompatible with other abrasives. It's been a known issue for a while - I did a video way back (~2018?) about the need for an 'interface pad' when using Abranet ('the Mirka Abranet Test, video 157, and follow-up video 159 'cos I was sent the wrong interface pad...) back when Abranet was the only mesh abrasive you could buy. The Festool 'protection pads' are definitely better than the Mirka ones, which I felt were too soft and affected the sanding action too much. Nice graphics too btw. 👍 Hope you didn't blow all the gummy bear budget...😉 Cheers from London. Peter
THANK YOU for making this video. I can’t believe nobody is talking about these flying off of sanders more on RU-vid. Talking about common sense issues like this has just earned you another follower, my friend!
@@wittworks Yeah I have experienced it with my bosch sander. At first I just noticed that it wasn’t a very secure connection, but it woudn’t fly off. But after just a couple of discs, they all started shooting across my garage after a couple seconds of sanding. Great info about how the hooks stick through the mesh. I had never thought about that, but it makes so much sense.
I purchased a used one as the piece is a bit pricey, but the machine ru-vid.comUgkxG6fbm3cHBd7CNTjk5D-dwYe9c9tCB9ZN has surpassed my expectations. We sand small parts by hand often, sized around 1"x1/2," and specifically look for a piece that's designed to be vertical. The motor has plenty of torque and great speed settings. The only inconvenience I had is that the disk measures 5" where we trim 6" stick-and-sand disks down easily by mounting it then cutting with a box cutter.
Thank god for this video! I bought 4 boxes of 50 packs in different grits on the recommendation of everyone on RU-vid. Today I was sanding my first project and within 20 minutes I was back to my old paper frustrated.
I literally ordered this mid way through your video! Thank you! I didn't give up on 3M's extract but it was frustrating when it would come off or partially shift off. Someone said recently in one of their videos that the extract sandpaper was one of the best advances recently in woodworking and I wanted to agree and if this works as well as it looks like it will, then I whole heartedly agree.
3m's abrasive tech is what is advanced, but the hook and loop tech is the issue. I hear that mirka doesnt have the issue because they've always used net disc. Mirka patent expired, 3M entered the net market, but everyone else has hook and loop backing...now I understand. Glad this helped!
I'm surprised people are just now finding out about this. I've been using Diablo Sandnet discs for years and each pack comes with a backer pad. I learned this lesson the hard way when the backer pad wore out and I tried using the discs directly on the sander and it melted my hooks/loops. Had to buy a new sanding pad. Thing is- I found a great deal on Sandnet last year and ended up buying what will probably be a lifetime supply of every grit, so I'm never going to get to try out the new 3M hotness. There's always something better!
One problem I recently discovered with this sandpaper is that the grit comes off if the edges get damaged at all. I was sanding some cabinet doors (open frames for glass to be mounted) and when sanding near inside corners the paper would occasionally get wrinkled a bit. The tiny little bits of ceramic grit from the damaged edge of the paper got onto my black melamine workbench top and when I flipped the doors over to sand the other side, those little bits of grit got pressed into the wood and left tiny dents. This will necessitate a change in my workflow to make sure I either don't lay anything on the bench when sanding, or I have to find a way to lift pieces up and support them evenly so grit can't get trapped under them.
I had no idea net paper wore out the backing pad. I just got into woodworking this Spring and bought boxes of Xtract after seeing Jonathan Katz-Moses' test of it but I never saw any RU-vid mention even the existence of protection pads. Thanks for bringing this to our attention, I'm going to add that to my winter shopping list.
People have been going nuts over the 3M stuff since the Jonathan Katz Moses video, and probably rightly so. What wasn't discussed in the video(s) is using a protection pad, which 3M recommends in their docs. Festool also recommends doing the same when using Granat Net discs. Mirka has them as well. No protection pad = wear out the hooks on your pad faster.
I always used a protection pad no matter what sand paper I was using. The first thing I did when I got my festool is put a pad on it. It never occurred to me that people would run expensive sanders without a pad since replacing the pad is cheap and replacing part of your sander is not. That being said, I can see how a net paper would wear it out faster than regular paper.
So glad to have found this. The net discs were slipping off my festool as I was sanding . It caused all these marks … not the usual squiggles that I sometimes get but like a slight 1/3 moon. No matter what I did I kept getting them and this was a recent issue as I just started using these discs last month. Now I know why I kept getting those marks! I’ll be ordering these today!
I bought Diablo mesh 5" sandpaper, and it came with a hook & loop pad. There were no instructions as to what the pad was for, so it sat in the drawer until I saw your video. Fortunately my sander's pad still works well after months of sanding without using the pad.
@@wittworks Curious how the Diablo rates to sandpapers other than anything made by 3M for you? Most people watching videos aren't running large production shops. I was hoping for real world results, that would apply to the hobbyists working out of their garage or pole barn. If a sheet of sandpaper costs pennies on the dollar but only adds a few minutes to a project it's probably a fair trade off for many if not most weekend woodworkers. I boycotted 3M years before they came out with mesh sandpaper. I can't think of a company that goes harder on planned obsolescence! The "other large yt channel" they sponsor that designed a test and acutely chose data to suggest we should all only by 3M sandpaper and change it out every few minutes or we're apparently "turning a couple hour project into possibly weeks" only provided more evidence I made the right decision with the boycott. Unfortunately I lost a lot of faith in said yt channel too.
I should’ve listened a long time ago. I don’t get excited about many things as far as tools and accessories. That being said, after sanding 4 serving trays with one disc, I am blown away. I really think I can sand 2 or three more. It sticks really good to my worn out backing pad for the Bosch Get65-5(Their Version of the Rotex). This truly is a game changer for me. I always bought cheap assortments because they have all the grits. It is totally worth getting the full line of grits. It will last way longer than all those assorted packs
My first experience with the 3M Cubitron was using the version before the Extract. I also found the backing wore out long before the sanding surface. I stumbled across the protection pad while placing an order for more paper at Taylor Toolworks. I came to the conclusion that it would be the cheaper route to go as well. Thanks for the video and for throwing out an issue that has definitely not been talked about.
This vid turned the light on and helped me understand why my discs were not "sticking" to my sander! I wore the hooks out using net discs. Thanks so much!
I went down this same road a couple of years ago and finally discovered the back pad solution. I think a big part of the problem is due to the lack of information provided by the manufactures of the sandpaper. The Diablo brand provides the backing pad with some of their papers. Seems simple, but if you don't know it can be very frustrating. Thank you for the video!
This is great info for me. I use the extract but due to my health, my wife let me empty my 401(lol) on the Festool ct15 and etc125 and the edge guide. This is my first ever Festool purchase and am truly amazed. I never wanted to spend this type of money but it is absolutely worth it even though I got the cheapest sander and cheapest extractor. I’m a 63 year old hobbyist and I’ll never need another extractor. I also just watched your video on your visit to Festool. This was an amazing video. It’s so good to know that their are companies like Festool who treat and care for there employees more than just a number.
I recently bought the exact same festool sander because i blew the fuse on my mirka - i didnt know that! Thanks a lot for saving me some headache with my sander. Best regards Wicki
Love the sandpaper - hate the hook and loop. Thank you so much for publishing this tip. I agree, there should at least be a notice in the box about these things.
I think you maybe just saved me from ditching this 3m sandpaper! At first, I was like “how is this stuff so popular? I don’t get it” but this makes perfect sense brother. Good video.
Yeah, they don’t think about consumers or woodworkers. Their main clients are auto and aerospace who put in million dollar purchase orders. Makes since when you think of it like that. Still! Sucks.
Before you got to your discovery of the pad saver, I got to thinking that the net paper would most certainly be self-attaching in that the mesh itself would be the loop and the hooks on the backing pad would be exposed. I think that the manufacturers of the sanders and the net sanding discs should, at the very least, add something to their documentation about the effects of net discs on the backing pad of a sander. If anything, it would relieve them from any liability because they warned us.
Finally someone talks about it. I had to replace the pad recently and switched paper but I didn’t know about this. Now I can order a protector and go back to my pile of 3m paper.
@@wittworksthe information is definitely out there as I somehow learned it years ago when I bought my festool. Not sure if it’s widely shown in RU-vid videos but I got it from somewhere. Seems like it would be standard day one procedure to put a pad on your expensive festool or mirka. That’s what I did, but again, I’m not sure where I learned it.
You sir are a legend! I recently upgraded to the Festool sander and was super disappointed in the fact that I had several hundred dollars wrapped up in the 3M sandpaper that wouldn't stick. I knew youtube would save me though. Liked & subscribed! Edit: Anyone ever tell you that you look like Giovanni Ribisi?
Awesome vid, 2 major problems fixed in under 10 minutes for $15 dollars! If only all of life’s problems could be solved this easily life would be great. 😊
Thank you for this video. I have always wanted to use the mesh sanding disks but didn't know how to interface them to my Dewalt RO sander. Saved me a lot of hassle!
Today I picked up a Bosch GEX 40-150 and I bought a pack of pad protectors with it. Looks like I did my future self a huge favor, cause I had no idea Xtract wouldn't stick without them :)
Thank you so much for this video. I found out about the protection pads but it was the spongey ones which does not seem to be effective at all. I am looking forward to the thin protection pads coming to see how they go. Been through two backing pads in a few weeks… thank you!!
To be fair, on the inside of the systainer lid (on the RO150 at least) there is a list of all the sandpaper you can get, and for the net ones (festool granat net etc.) it explicitly states to use the protection pad. There are also order numbers for them on there. But no clue if this is exclusive to the RO150 or not.
What's funny is i use the Xtract all day on my Mirka, and it just so happens that Mirka includes one of the protection pads in their kit, so without noticing, I had already solved the issue! Good to know!
Yeah I didn’t have any issues whatsoever with the xtraxct paper. It’s because I had a crappy dewalt sander and the bottom disc part broke off after one project because it has plastic drive parts. I returned it and went with festool. But when researching why my dewalt broke and why the festool wouldn’t I came across the idea of using backing pads. So from day one I was using the pads regardless of the sandpaper. I literally haven’t had a single problem that people are listing in the comments here. And I can’t help but wonder if people are expecting sandpaper to last longer than it should. JKMs tests show that even after five minutes the 3m still works better than new paper from competition. But still, you’re getting five to ten minutes out of paper. It’s a consumable. How long are y’all trying to make this stuff last. If you get a single tabletop out of a piece that’s all you can ask for.
I had this same problem when using Mirka AutoNet discs on my bosch sanders. After buying another backing pad, i also got a few Mirka pad savers and all was well.
Or get an Abranet 10 disc assorted pack. It actually comes with a protector. I’ve been using it for a while now and still haven’t worn out any edge. Fantastic stuff
I just bought a heap of those yesterday. I am using them on an Ozito sander, prob the cheapest one I can buy in Australia. No problems with them coming off.
I've purchased both new OEM pads for my DeWalt orbital sander and protection pads (not Festool yet) - and the cubitron 5" discs still spin off. I used spray glue to put them on some cheap discs - and that actually worked, but then there is no dust collection. The problem here is with the material on the cubitron discs. I can't believe 3M won't fix this. I ordered the Festool protestion pads today to try. If they don't work, I'm through with cubitron discs until 3M does the right thing.
Thanks for this vid! Taylor Tools was out of the protector pads when I ordered my discs, and I just figured “meh, probably no big deal” so glad I saw this follow up, I just ordered a pair of Festool pads from Amazon :-)
@@wittworks Haha, I'll bet sudden orders totaling 600 units for a somewhat obscure part from a hobbyist-oriented reseller leapt out on someone's spreadsheet! Mike Taylor should tell 3M that they owe you a commission - or at least a couple year's supply of abrasive products 😁
Thanks for the tip for the compatibility using the festool protection pad! I work at a paint/hardware store and sell festool products, so i’ll be sure to pass on the knowledge 🤙🏾 Cheers
I am surprised that the backing pads are not included, since they are absolutely necessary. Diablo brand mesh type disks come with the backer pad in each box, so it is self-explanatory that they should be used with that type of disk
I almost bought some to test. Was too cheap. Didn’t want to spend the money. Bought a second festool sander the next day 🙈 In fairness, I have a client table I’m building that is very expensive and I needed a better sander than the small Festool I have.
You can buy the Bosch M480 mesh sandpaper in a multipack that includes a Pad Saver as well :) I almost want to say that I saw the sale thing from 3M, but I'm not sure. I think their multi pack doesn't include the Pad saver. I just got myself 4 of the Bosch pad savers for my new GEX 12V-125 sander, and hopefully I'll have time to actually test it out tomorrow :)
@@wittworks yeah, it looks and feels great! I really like the form factor and the ergonomics of it. So far I've only started it, with an almost drained battery, and it's very quiet and very low vibration, but I don't know how good it will actually sand yet :) I got a few of the M480 papers, and a few of the Bosch F355 papers(for coatings and composites) and I'm waiting for a multipack of the Xtract to arrive, and I'll test and compare them for different use cases :) Sure, I'll report back when I've actually sanded something with it :) need to strip of some varnish of a pair of oak door sills so that I can stain them to match my dark oak floors.
@@wittworks So, I finally had time to actually use my GEX 12V-125 sander the other day, both with M480 mesh sand"paper" and the F355 sandpaper from Bosch. Yeah, I really like this machine, it's just fantastic :) The ergonomics is more or less exactly like an Airsander, but it doesnt get cold and is much less noisy. I'd say it's the most quiet sander I've ever used, with a significant margin. Low vibrations as well, just like all other Bosch Professional tools I own so far. It is surprisingly powerful for a 12V sander that only weighs 800grams without the battery, and with the 3AH batteries it is very well balanced. Even with a 400 grit F355 paper and the second to lowest speed I had to be careful to not sand through the 2 coats of ZAR polyurethane varnish I had put on the day before on some oak. I sanded away the factory varnish on 2 oak door sills in maybe 8-10 minutes with 80 grit M480 paper and the battery was showing 2 out of 3 bars when I was done. The built-in dust collection is actually very good, and with the Bosch Ventaro vaccum I have, I actually had more dust coming out of the vacuum when I connected it to the sander, than what the sander left behind if I didnt use the vacuum! That probably means that the bag I have in the Ventaro isnt all that great, I'll have to check that out. There was more or less no dust left on the workpieces when using the vacuum, but some in the workshop air :P The vacuum is also a lot louder than the sander on full speed, and it makes the sander a lot more bulky. I see myself using the sander with its built-in dustcolletion quite a lot in the future. The sanding pad stops almost instantly when you turn the sander of, and it gets up to speed very quickly, one of the benefits of Brushless motors I guess. It is of course not the most powerful sander, but the compactness and relative power is fantastic. Sure, a multitool with a sanding pad is also fairly compact and powerful, but not as good at sanding as real random orbit sander. All in all, I'm very happy that I bought the sander and it more or less convinced me that I want to get a Bosch GET 55-125 or GET 75-150 for bigger sanding jobs (I have a 13,5x2,55m sailboat that I need to sand the entire deck and hull to paint it for example). Sadly I dont really think any of the other Bosch sanders will offer as good ergonomics as the GEX 12V-125 or the GEX 18V-125, and perhaps the GET models are simply to big and powerful for finish sanding, so I may consider a Mirka Deros or 3M Xtract sander instead, not sure yet :)
Thank you for the good information. I don’t have an expensive sander but I did just purchase some dioblo sanding screens. I will look for one of those pads that will work for my little sander.
Thanks man. Your right it was in the middle of the pack. I think this pack came with 50 assorted sheets. This is off topic but that chisel commercial you did was as good as anything on tv.
@@chrisp7957 thank you! I’ll call nbc and apply for a job. I got a pack last night and got a pad with it. Very interesting. Consumers like us aren’t 3Ms priority so I understand why they don’t include it. But still. It would be nice to have a consumer pack.
Fantastic! I was wondering what am I doing wrong and why the sand mesh does not stick to my brand new Festool sander.....going to order that protection pad right away.
Huh.... interesting? I've got a mid-level Bosch sander that I was using Diablo sandpaper with that just sticks to the backing plate. No problems at all with the backing plate this whole time. For one project I needed to get a really course grit (like 60 or something silly), but Home Depot only had this grit at the time available in Diablo's mesh sandpaper style, not their normal style. This was my first experience with mesh sandpaper, and I loved it after using it. The thing is the Diablo mesh paper came with that extra protection thingy as a required adapter as the mesh paper won't stick directly to the backing plate (it even says this on the packaging, which through me for a loop at first...snicker snicker). All that to say I've ordered a bunch of Cubitron mesh sanding paper and I was surprised to find that I had to order the adapter thingy separately? Eh.... I guess being made aware of it through the Diablo experience was a good thing. The best part I love about the mesh sandpaper is rather than having to use a rubber cleaning stick to periodically clean the paper, I can just blast it with compressed air between passes! It does make sanding go quicker thanks to that. Thanks for heads up :)
I just recently purchased so Klingnet sanding discs by Kingsport and the associate informed me about this and the sell Sandnet pad by Diablo the does the same thing.
Awesome channel, dude. Really like your presentation. Have you seen the new Makita dust extractors? There doesn’t seem to be many reviews out. A possible video idea for you (don’t let your wife read this) would be to compare the Makita VC4210L, the Fein Turbo II AC HEPA, and the Festool. From my research, those seem to be the cream of the crop from all dust extractor offerings.
I will check it out! I saw that one last year when I was choosing between festool and them. I'm dumb and ultimately chose festool because it didn't look like a rounded shop vac like the makita has and I preferred festool's hose storage 🙈. My friend has the Fein....good possible idea! gotta go! she's right behind me and i dont want her reading over my shoulder.
I would be a lot more irritated with Festool over getting a single sanding disk with that expensive sander. I can't believe they give one, single disk with it. Thanks for a great video. The other video I watched on this subject completely sucked.
3M Cubitron is a ceramic based grain. When it breaks down the edge round over, and it leaves deeper and uglier scratches than conventional Aluminium Oxide paper. Once you paint after using Cubitron you will need 2-3 layers of lacquer. Try Sia 1950 paper, better consistency and finish.
I’m willing to accept it’s maybe me, but I gave this stuff an honest try on my recent project and really it just performed subpar to the Festool paper. Particularly in buildup.
I ran into the same issue with my new Festool sander + 3M Xtract sandpaper. I ultimately found the interface pad solution (on Reddit I think), but geez what an annoyance. Festool or 3M really should fix this issue. Just look at how many people run into this.
I use 710W with a plain corded Makita 125mm orbital sander (and shop vac) and have no real trouble with the nets - I just apply pressure for a moment with my palm to get it to stick nicely. Still have all the hooks it would seem. Haven't sanded large projects in one go yet, so that might change my view on the protection pads. Unfortunately at first glance I couldn't find any made specifically for the Makita hole pattern unless I order from aliexpress or the like. Personally I wouldn't dream of using any other sandpaper as I get this off Amazon for 1/3 the price of the cheapest no-name garbage papers available locally. That is the real shocker for me...
They least they could do is include a little card in the package with "accessories" for the sander listed & mention their benefits etc. That being said, if you register your tools with Festool you can go navigate to the tool you own in your profile & there is an "accessories" tab for each tool listed.
Diablo sandpaper also has these in Their packs of sandpaper and that’s what I use for my Milwaukee sander with the cubitron. I feel like it works well. Not perfect but good.
Totally agree with you that these guys do skimp on critical accessories that should be included with the sander from the outset, not even taking into account the exorbitant prices of high end sanders...shockingly bad.
One other issue with these net sandpapers I have not seen anyone talk about is with the 8 hole sanders. As in there is only a handful of discreet holes for the dust to move through. The net won't be providing the claimed benefit of dust extraction being restricted to only a few holes. Yes, we could all go buy expensive Festool sanders, but not all of us have that kind of money.
@@jasmusican Yes, I know about the hole pads. That is not what I was referring to. I'm talking about the disconnect between 8 holes to suck dust up, vs a whole disc made of a net type material, and the probable lack of dust removal due to that.
