The Reason Why Smash is Poor 

The Smash scene is poor because they spend all their money on deodorant, soap, and other products vital to keeping proper hygiene!

To be fair the early registration fee for a competitor at CEO this year was $90 which in my case DID discourage me from going to my first big tournament. I live about a 5 hour drive away and the difference of that price was enough to get me to not go

“All anyone could talk about after the tournament was hungrybox” that aged pretty well

14:21 That reminds me of an after school program I went to where they sometimes had smash bros brawl, and I remember there was this kid who would turn off items, FD only, ban Kirby (too powerful), and pause every time he got hit. He even got a counselor to enforce the no Kirby rule.

You gotta feel bad for people who want to make a career off smash but don’t have enough charisma to stream. They’re never going to be able to follow their dreams.

My personal issue with increasing the pot by $10 is that it only benefits top players. Why am I getting taxed for being bad?

Aiden Calvin made a great video on the whole smash prize pool topic that goes over most parts of the issue, it's worth a watch for anyone interested

Poor Nintendo, they’re probably only just scraping by with how poor Smash is 😔

It's pretty simple: 1) the audience for melee is a demographic nightmare for advertisers. there's a TON of adults who actually have some money they might spend, but it's technically a kid's game so you have to keep things toned down. then you have to deal with the spergs. 2) Nintendo hating melee comp is a HUGE wet blanket for any money coming into the scene. No big advertisers (I mean BIG advertisers like other esports get, Red Bull, Razer, etc) are going to risk sponsoring a tournament for a 20+ year old game that the company who owns the rights actually tries to take down the competitive scene. It's just too big of a risk for them, and the melee crowd hasn't proven a big money demo before. It's actually kind of ironic, because the FGC has been poverty FOREVER. Yeah Tekken/SF majors/EVO can pay out some money but most other events don't. But yeah, nobody's playing professional fighting games like it's a 9-5. If you're a FGC pro, you're in it because you love the game and the competition. It's not going to make almost anyone a millionaire. Streaming is a much more realistic option for that.

7:09 "LICENSED by Nintendo"... Well, you were 😂😂😂😂😂

I've stopped paying attention to The Score Esports a long time ago. They just didn't do a lot of fact checking at the time causing the stuff they said to be wrong or just straight up speculation that would lead to internet beef and were even asked by folks at times who were the subject of the topic or close to the scene to talk to them before throwing it out there as fact. It just felt like they were jumping at every juicy drama and had to talk about it for the views and people watching took what they said as fact when it was mostly speculation and rumors.

Here's a great solution: crowd-fund a bank heist that will provide to prize pool for the tournaments. There's definitely nothing that can go poorly with this plan.

I need an entire saga and video documentary for Coney's forays into stocks. Also Coney should fund smash melee by creating a stock broker company that goes off his stock picks. Think of the MILLIONS OF DOLLARS he could be putting into Hbox's hands.

The prize pool should be 4-for-1 split to make the prizes 4x as much. Everybody wins.

10 bucks isn't usually a deal breaker, but for us poorer Smash players it definitely can be. The real answer there is "probably shouldn't be playing the game competitively if you can't afford to play the game competitively"

Basically now you are entering tournaments to get your name recognized. It’s not about money. More for the clout and competition. Then once people know who you are or interested, then that’s when your streams, RU-vid, and brand get more attention. This would then translate to a sponsorship where they make the travel fees and everything a non factor to simply go out and play. It’s a content driven system which can be extremely inconsistent.

The issue is, and has always been, the "top-heaviness" of the prize payout. 1st place taking 50%+ of the pot might make the grand finals more exciting (and I don't even agree with this), but if you want players to be able to make a living as professional competitors, the pot needs to at least pay down to the top 8 enough to comp the trip/pay the players enough to approach an income.

I will never get tired of coney yoinking atrioc's arm and pose for the thumbnail. It will always be funny.

Still crazy that arguably the most popular “fighting game” on the planet is the only pretty much the only one that doesn’t have dev support for its tournaments. Imagine how big the competitive Smash scene would be if Nintendo treated it the same way companies like Capcom and Bandai treat their game’s competitive scene.

For the people wondering on the "why is the 10usd increase is big deal". In tournaments with other fighting games other than the various smash games, it is common to have players join the multiple games per event. Those 10usd quickly add up. Lets say you join 5 games normally that would be 50usd but at 20 that would become 100usd. Now that a lot of games but a decent amount of people do that.

as someone that’s deep in the ow scene, the bubble has already bursted lol, most teams sign players at or close to minimum which isn’t much

I think Hbox actually meant he was popping off for 75$ because it's huge. Like "Bro this is ridiculous. This is a insane amount of money!"

Problem: The community doesn't have enough money to support crowd funded prize pools. Proposed solution: Bleed an already poor community for every cent they're worth. Do we all see the issue here? The money has to come from somewhere. Who has the money in this community? Sponsors, and only sponsors. So the money needs to come from them, because they are the only people who have it.

I feel like there are just too many smash majors tbh. This may be a really bad hot take but the fact it feels like there is one a week during the summer is too much. Cause it'll just cause bad prizes too since you'll get some less stellar turnouts of top players. My 2 cents. Curious how many are in other games if it's this many

Up here in Saskatchewan our largest e-sports org SKL has been doing an amazing job at securing sponsorships and pot bonuses for big tournaments by partnering with other events. Before the pandemic they partnered with Saskatoon EX, a large fair held annually in the city, to secure a $10000 pot bonus and they've partnered with the Grey Cup committee for an upcoming Smash Ultimate tournament in Regina called Path to Glory with a $50000 pot bonus. There's probably a lot of opportunities to raise the profile of Smash events in larger centers if Saskatchewan can do this.

The best argument that I've heard about increasing fees is that 5 or 10$ isn't going to make someone be able to live off smash. Would it be cool if people could play smash for a living? Hell ya, but tournaments were for fun not to make it your job.

The thing about melee is that the game’s old! 21 years, it makes sense that the prize pool would be so small. Ultimate is a different conversation though

not really related but fun fact: the top NA splatoon 2 team has won 4 copies of Arms from 5 official nintendo tournies. they won 5 out of 5 tournies over several years and got 4 copies of arms and some gold points. official nintendo prizes are insane lmfao

This video aged well....lol

Someone really needs to capture some sort of data set to hit the fine line of pot payout optimization vs entry fees whether it’s extrapolation of historic pot payouts or a questionnaire of how much people are willing to pay in (n=300-500).

Forget $10 more on top of travel/hotels/other fees, I can't even consistently afford the $10 for my local weekly. WAY too little money in the scene we all lose money here.

There are ways TOs can help the melee scene like yeah adding entry cost for more prize payouts, maybe having things like tournament exclusive design controller shells for entry and top however many to first and more options but for a game like melee its just putting more bandaids to a game that might be on its last legs. If viewership and attendance is down then its unlikely to increase significantly. Melee has been having a solid competitive scene for many years and the only way a game is doing so is if its a tcg really. Idk if any other video game has had a competitive scene as long as melee.

Maybe top players expected to place higher pay higher entry fees, mid players with a slight price increase and low players pay the same

Melee players should take up bank robbing.

Damn you smash community just let me spend $20 to go 0-2.

It's wild Coney doesn't think a $10 increase is a deal breaker. If I'm going to the movies, if tickets were raised by $10, I'd be even less interested to go in. Now if I'm a competitor for Smash, don't know if I'll even get to top 8, AND have to pay more, that's most likely a deal breaker for me

I'd say the real issue with upping the tournament fee from 10 to 20 is that 1) it keeps less competitive players who aren't super invested from entering and 2) it's an arbitrary number to begin with. 20 may eventually become 40, then 80, etc... The prize pot needs to be tied to something, and the current model is tied to a declining number of competitors, thus low prize pots.

One thing I don't like about this video is the extra fee, so when I entered in BoBC4, the fee to enter the tournament was $65, then another $15 to enter into Ultimate.

4:33 - correction: Nintendo ignores Melee tournaments IF YOU'RE LUCKY. If they're not ignoring it, they're probably trying to shut it down.

ya know I'm not a melee player but I don't think raising the cost of entry of an over 200 man bracket/3 day event so 8 ppl who probably have a job or make way more on twitch streams can still not break even on the cost of going to the tournament will be helpful

Hard agree with you at 14:00. I was so excited to see the Gimz stagelist, it seemed really fun. And then like 60% of the games were on PS2 anyways. From a spectator standpoint, it makes Ult tournaments really boring.

for a channel that doesnt do much smash content, theScore esports is mostly pretty versed in their smash knowledge so i can give it up to them

The gimvitational did leave me sad a bit tbh. I wanted to see so much WarioWare lol

I think people around the world should be able to donate to the price pool weather they're competing, watching it live in person, or from home. So instead of forcing an entry fee $20 it can remain at $10 and allow the ones entering to "donate" if they so choose, and they can donate more than $10 if they're really ok with it. The thing that people always overlook is that even if some people are okay with giving an extra $10 as entry fee, that doesn't mean everyone will agree. Weather you're right or wrong, i personally think if you give people the option to do something they'll be more down to do it, because it's their choice. You can't tell me the price pools wouldn't be higher if viewers of the livestream could donate to the price pool. And everyone else chipping in is better than not. Better than being forced to pay an extra $10 as an entry fee. This way you get what you wanted which is a bigger price pool, and people still get to pay the regular price for entry fee. Done.

I don’t really follow the competitive community or how things work at tournaments, but I like hearing about this stuff through coney.

Pretty sick that saskatchewan id having a $50k pot bonus ultimate tourney in November then. Biggest prize pool in Canada ever baby!

My local major (CROWN) was 60 for entry as an early bird, over 100 if you registered late or somewhere around there. I’m not sure what major is a 10 dollar entry anyways.

if you get into any smash game for the money you’re out of your mind. i think some people don’t understand that it’s a hobby and the only way to guarantee any money is by being sponsored or making content. most people who play melee probably still have jobs outside of just playing melee

Why does coney have atrioc's arm in the thumbnail

So this guy is basically saying the reason players shouldn't make more money from tournaments is because players are currently not making more money from tournaments. The reason something shouldn't change, is because it's still the same. Flawless logic.

hi, youtube commenter here. i think the best way to raise prize payouts in melee is to take all of the money in the pot and gamble it at the casino of whatever venue you’re at until you raise the pot tenfold

How dare Coney get a slurpee in a big gulp cup made for soda not the SLURPEE

20 bucks seems pretty acceptable for entree fee considering most ticket prices of fairs, etc. are around that price if not more these days.

I think the "you already pay for travel and hotel" argument always overlooks that the local scene does a lot of filling out the numbers at a major, and those people are just paying for parking and registration. Doubling the entry fee would actually turn away some of those people. That said, I don't think you'd lose 50% of the players, so you'd still have a net increase in the prize pool.

who the HELL said overwatch players make a ton of money??? players quit the owl so fast because of how shit they were being paid, getting thrown on bench for no reason, the owl is a cash cow yeah but it's the shittiest ran league i've ever heard of. the COMPANIES that own the teams make a shit ton of money, only select players are actually paid what they deserve.

My weekly locals going from costing 10-15 to 20-25 would push me out of the scene entirely, I can already barely afford to go to both my locals anymore because of gas prices and the decline of working conditions. Coney is out of touch and wealthy. Simple as.

I think the idea of brawl and melee players hating eachother is really funny because for a couple years, they were all just going to tournaments to get shit on by the same bald guy

Getting to this one late, but this is a really cool side of Coney to see, the practical tournament stuff is always super interesting

I made more money caddying today as a junior caddy than hungrybox did by participating in that tournament

That's one nice hand in the thumbnail it kinda reminds me of hotdogs. I wonder where I have seen it before, all I know is that they are "piano fingers".

I can't imagine it being fair that if I entered a tournament with hbox (with me only ever playing smash casually) we both only pay 10 dollars

Summit has quite literally run out of top players that are willing to campaign. The system is so terrible and they've refused to change it for so long and now it's biting them in the ass. They should have changed it years ago but here we are.

That guy asking for comp settings and picking MK at a casual setting, is just a baby going "nooo i cant win otherwise, we play MY way"

Local weeklies need to stay at the $5-$10 range with monthlies as high as $20, including venue fees... Majors can up that shit all they want so long as entry doesn't cost more than a night at a nearby hotel.

We're getting 5 videos this week. Coney week OOOO

I'm that guy that used to complain and try to force people to play more competitive then I realized actions speak lauder than words, so I started cheesing them and watched them slowly ban certain items and stages that I bitched about. Worked almost every time.

i 100% agree the money should go to the experience. which would you want, a dirty room with fold out chairs and huge prize payouts for 5 people out of 1000, or its all done for the bragging rights and its in a giant badass stadium? For me the answer is obvious

20:24 Being a Brawl player was tough back then lol.

I find the idea of Tournaments giving top pro players money backwards A lot of the pro players become streamers with a sustainable income, some rich asf. It's the many mid to low level players that tend to struggle more If anything, the rich pro players should support the scene. Many of them just wouldn't be as successful streamers if it weren't for Smash Every pro player was once a low level player

Coney and getting stun locked mid-sentence to extend the content dramatically. Name a more iconic duo

"I'M SETTING A F***ING ALARM" got me lmaooooo

the 'gods' in melee were called that because they rarely lost to anyone except each other, and no one except them could win a major. the top players aren't as consistent in ultimate, that's why they're 'horsemen' which is an even cringier word.

We need pot bonuses from sponsors like papa johns, but we never get really good sponsors 😔

The issue for me is that esports is not an analogous thing to established sports in terms of fan base, recognizability and support… yet. I would love for esports to blow up to be mainstream level appeal to NFL Super Bowl appeal but I honestly don’t think it’s gonna happen. Purely because video games from a general audience perspective is stigmatized one way or another whether it’s generalizing everything as “they playing on their Nintendo” or to whatever short term fad is going on like Fortnite, among us etc. to even “it’s just a video game” as well as arguably the biggest hurdle video games have is the perceptron that they cause violence and or are too violent. It’s great that FGC gets dev/publisher support but it’s too niche and not marketed correctly for it to produce millionaires. And People who want it to be at that point in the now are honestly viewing it in w the mainstream mindset that traditional sports are at which is wrong.

He told Hbox to do better next time and he did.

Well, Smash Players can always hope that some riot employee gets really into Smash. Its not so far fetched as they seem to have a habit of stealing good concepts and putting their own spin on it.

I think $20 entry would maybe only make a difference at a local/regional level. With majors, I think people know what they're getting into cost wise and I agree I dont think $10 more would be the dealbreaker for most people. I would say most attendees go to a major for the experience overall, not just competing. But for example, a tourney near me a little while back in Orlando was $20 registration + tax so it was $25~ iirc (I forget regional or local, prob regional). And for a mid ass level player like me, it just almost feels like throwing away my money. Maybe its very self-defeating of me, but when I see that local/regional is $20-25 and I see Aaron, Goblin, Jake, Beastmodepaul, Epic Gabe etc. all signed up its like "nah I'm good I'm just gonna be throwing away my money". Ofc I want to get better/get experience, but if it were to cost me $20~ every week/other week I feel like I'd be better off buying lessons and playing friendlies lol. Just my opinion!

Dang, just found this channel through some multiversus recommendations. Glad I did, great content.

about going to friends places and playing competitively, we always just turn off items like the dragoon stuff. not fun.

Ok just an idea (someone probably said it I don’t know) usually these tournaments get a pretty hefty crowd, why don’t some of the like spectator’s entrance fee get put in the prize pool like 20% of it cause I know the people that work the venue got to be paid and I’m sure that’s how they get paid but just an idea

Saying "Licensed by Nintendo!" in regards to panda cup didn't age well lol

What’s the background music u use

They gotta get more sponsors to put into the prize pool.

Shout out too all my San Peligrino drinkers Gotta be my favourite personality trait

First off, I liked the video and agreed with a lot of your points, but the thing I want to harp on is the GME stock comments. I assume and hope you did some research or someone from chat had more for you, but as a fellow ape/investor, I want to just get out more info for you and others who might be in a similar situation. The 4-1 stock split means that for every share you have, you will get 4, yes. HOWEVER, the stock price also drops by a factor of 4 as well so your total equity is the same. If you had one share worth $120, on the day of the split, you will then get 4 shares and the price of the stock would be $30. You still own $120 worth of GME, but now (and this is usually why splits are amazing) the price per share is much much lower allowing more access for people to get in. This is also why I feel a lot of people flocked to AMC as well. It was cheaper and less of a financial burden to get at least 1 share compared to GME which was much higher. All in all, I am glad you held and I think you will definitely reap the rewards of holding in the future.

"we have ludwig at home" ludwig at home:

Coney sounds like an old man whenever he says, "in the brawl days."

I mean CEO was the first and so far only big tournament convention I don’t to. It doesn’t seem like a big deal but 10$ more to just go 0-2 in Ultimate kinda leave with a horrible feeling of; “why did I go/enter” after the fact. I think it’s benefits any scene to have more players enter into tourneys cause it with circulate more entries and variety no matter what.

Anyone know the songs at 7:50 and at 19:50?

How many parties were ruined by these Meta Knight players?

I love the A Hat in Time music I always smile when I hear it

Whats the song at 20 minutes

Coney thinking a stock split will magically quadruple his investment is the funniest shit of the whole video.

Jmook really has saved melee's storylines

19:18 What is this song, I need it

anybody know where i can get the cubone hat

What's the music at the beginning?

if $10 is breaking your travel budget you probably shouldn't be traveling for tournaments

I mean you have to cover things like (sometimes) a flight, hotels, transport etc

Well nintendo isn't making anymore money from melee and even ultimate so why would they spend for tournaments. Only live service games can have large prize pools since live service games earns money constantly by selling in game cosmetics. That's how brawlhalla can afford a million dollars tournament despite most people not hearing about the game. Live service model is the future if the smash players wants a thriving esports scene with enormous prize pools.