One additional thing manufacturers need to consider - colourblindness! I really struggle with differentiating between red and green, making many of the popular choices useless to me. Can anyone else relate? The StroboStomp HD seems perfect for us 'colour-inept' people, but what I really want is a cheaper alternative with colour options. Maybe not just for vision accessibility, but also for fun! (I would ADORE a purple display to match my purple strat)
@@-b0j- Yeah I currently have the Polytune 2 Blacklight but they're discontinued, sadly. They have the black Polytune 3 models out but still have the annoying red/green display!
To be fair, most modern tuners also use lights that move in distinct directions/rotations to denote sharpness and flatness, so as long as you can see the lights, you should still be able to figure out how to tune. The colors aren't really necessary. Also, I've seen tons of old-school tuners that are entirely monochromatic, so those do still exist somewhere...
@@Smitty_Werbenjagermanjenson yeah that's a fair point. Most of them have a strobe mode or similar but I like my LEDs stationary... and I think it's okay to want that.
I’ve frequently been frustrated by tuning issues on my Tele and eventually broke down and got the Petersen strobe tuner. I first did a complete intonation by fretting at the 5th and 17th frets (as recommended by Petersen) and adjusting accordingly while using their equal temperament setting (no sweetener). I then switched to the GTR guitar sweetener and tuned. An immediate improvement, I think predominantly from better intonation. Also, while the sweetener got very close, it still needed to be tweaked, and I recorded those offsets, making sure A was at 440 Hz. When I now tune the A to 440 and then tune to my offsets, it’s perfect every time. The take home - Petersen’s tools and methods have been a massive improvement, but in the end the final say say so came from my EARS....Thanks Pedal Show - while the topic may seem geeky and tedious on the surface, once done and understood it can completely transform the playing experience. 👍🏻
That is one of the most crucial bit on info in the video: when tuning, hit the string with the same velocity that you use when playing! It you pick softly when tuning but pick hard when playing, your guitar will always be sharp.
The strength of the PolyTune's polyphonic mode is in quickly checking that you're still in tune; hit the button (I use mine in mute mode; audience doesn't need or want to hear you tune), shwang the strings, and as long as you get one green bar across, you're good. If it shows one or more strings are out, tune those in the individual string mode. Priceless for trem divers, heavy benders and others that really wang on the strings without a locking nut; tap the tuner between songs just to check.
Is that any faster than a turbo tuner? Probably not, the turbo is fast. Really fast. Like a lot faster than the polytune, the response is instant , and is a lot more accurate to boot. Just not so sure you are saving any time here like you think you are.
Being in tune is my favorite effect in a pedal. I played a stage show which favored red lights on the band. It was pretty nice to change the Peterson tuner to a green colored display that night!
How can anyone get bored of how long these episodes are ?! there isn't one that these guys have done that is “too long” I love these guys just ace I could sit watch them for hours 👌
@@nickwilson9210 Yup the Boss app is pretty cool. I only moved to the DaTuner when I needed a steady Cent readout to try the James Taylor compensated tuning. PitchLabPro is a fun app too with all it's different modes and chord functions.
Just a small correction; the polytune is more accurate when you use it in strobe mode simply because the strobe allows it to display at a finer resolution. To say that other digital “strobe” tuners are genuine “strobe” tuners is misleading. If it were a genuine strobe, it would have a light source and spinning wheel inside. The accuracy of tuning comes down to quality of ad converters and the quality of signal processing algorithms (fourier transforms etc.) to detect the frequency in a timely fashion.
I've wondered this as well. Like, I assume even the Peterson Strobostomp doesn't have a light source and spinning wheel inside. I find my Polytune 2 quite accurate in strobe mode, though I realize it's a display resolution thing. Good enough for me though!
This is absolutely right. Their website says the Polytune is only 0.5 cent accuracy in standard mode, but 0.02 cent in strobe. The TU-3W somewhat shockingly only has 1 cent accuracy no matter what mode it's in. That caught me by surprise. If I had to buy again, think I'd go Strobostomp over a Polytune 3 due to the known issues with the TC footswitch design.
The Sonic Research directly drives the LEDs with the analog signal at the same time as it strobes the LEDs at the reference frequency. This is as much a real strobe as you can get without a spinning wheel. Not sure about the Peterson.
@@EduardoVelezIII Sure, but there has to be a digital conversion in there somewhere. The interface is digital. But in any case, nowadays, digital sample rates out-resolve tuner accuracy requirements by a huge margin. As such, there is no practical disadvantage to be tuning in the digital domain. It really comes down to the quality of the A/D converters and the speed at which your pedal can crunch the numbers.
On behalf of many people I’d like to thank you guys. This is so helpful. Insomnia is a terrible thing and I think you’ve found the cure. I’m predicting a Nobel prize for medicine.
The older I get the more I am convinced that there are no absolutes in this life. You guys went down the tuner rabbit hole; you can do much the same for other facets of life. Humans like to simplify and categorize, it is how our brains work. Unfortunately, the universe doesn’t provide neat answers. Thanks again guys, I learned a lot.
Now is a good time to point out what I've noticed for a few years now: Mick's hearing is ridiculously good. Absurdly accurate. Has anybody else watched an episode and seeing Mick banging away on something killer only to stop make some (to me at least) imperceptible tuning adjustment?
That tip from Dan on tuning with the 12th fret harmonics is a game changer. I used to always use the open string. Just started the harmonic method and my guitar sounds better already.
There's a really good book on the whole tuning compromise thing: 'How Equal Temperament Ruined Harmony and Why You Should Care'. It's very accessible to read!
I've been using a tuning fork for for my acoustic collection, exactly 40 years! Now that I have ventured electric, Gibson Les Paul's etc...I 'm looking for a good tuner. This post was so very opportune. Guys don't short sell yourself's. You guys make every topic that's an hour show one great fast, enjoyable 5 minute entertaining and informative masterclass video Thank you Dan & Mick!! Greetings from sunny Los Ángeles California!
As with a number of people here, I assumed I’d watch a bit and probably turn off. This was a really useful episode with loads of information. I’ve taken away a number of tips and I’ve been playing live for over 20 years. Thanks guys!
Love, love, love it! I own three Strobe tuners and I swear by them. With the Peterson Tuners' Sweetened tunings, they assume that the instrument is intonated properly, i.e. with the EQU setting. Never intonate on a sweetened setting preset (with the notable exception of a Buzz Feiten Tuning System equipped instrument, if it has BFTS, intonate with the appropriate BF Sweetener as it contains both intonation and Sweetened tuning offsets). Sweeteners do work, and they are not for everyone. Even tuning by ear with the 12th fret harmonic can be troublesome if the strings are old, or the intonation is out. etc. TurboTuner supports user programmed tunings, but they are not supplied. I have added the Peterson GTR and ACU settings to my TT Mini 300. And, Yes the whole band can be out of tune if they are using different tuners. Some tuners see 5c other 10c, but the strobes see .02c or .01c--unless you play with a pipe organ, then tune to the organ and pray ;). An hour on tuners and just scratching the surface. Thanks, Chaps.
I always tune a string starting with a flat note. When my string is sharp, i make it flat, pull on it, then get it to the note I want. I think that you get more tuning stability that way.
House Mouse I haven't watched the video so they might mention this but I always tune up to the note to alleviate string tention before the nut. I haven't tried pulling on the string though.
Yes. Tune UP from a lower tension, helps settle the string over the friction points. Always tune each string UP several times until the whole thing settles, especially with a floating whammy system.
Quick tip: If your tuner is struggling to read the notes quickly switch to your neck pickup. Less upper partials and more fundamental makes it easier for the tuner to determine the note. The same thing applies for tracking in things like digital octave pedals.
I love my korg pitch black. I think it’s some special edition or something...it has these huge triangular bars of light for tuning and it’s great. You can see them under any circumstance, bright or dark, near or far. That’s my biggest concern when it comes to live tuning. Most modern tuners are going to be plenty accurate for live performance
An hour of talking about tuners? At first, I was like, “What? Well, I’ll give it a few minutes.” Then I sit fascinated for a full hour. One of the best videos on the channel.
15 minutes of infantile, middle school jokes and innuendos, vs. an hour of actual useful information? About 12 minutes longer than their average audience members attention span?(& half the info is wrong)What's that you say? No comparison, just similar accents.
Great show. *Summer of 1984* My first band, in the basement of my friend's house, had two guitars and a bass. Each of us had our own tuners. We'd all tune away while the drummer (his mom's house) would bang around on his drums because he's a drummer, right? Fifteen minutes later (still tuning) He'd begin to get impatient about why we hadn't finished tuning. Several daft remarks later we'd soundly ask him to refrain from knocking about so that we could tune our guitars. Three minutes later, everyone convinced of the accuracy of the finished product of our labor, we'd launch into an accelerated version of Paranoid only to come to a screeching halt because one or all of our guitars weren't in tune with the others. The whole process (complete with another round of impatient battering of toms) was to be repeated until someone had the bright idea to share the same tuner. At some point (probably to keep from erupting in fisticuffs) we began to go for a relatively in tune situation and hack away at the seven songs we all knew from beginning to end. That was the first time I realized that guitars were never actually in tune. The moment I touched my Hondo Rich Bich copy, it would go out of tune and upon checking with the tuner, I realized I was mistaken. Then I'd play and was certain I was out of tune but, upon checking... ... ... Infinitely useful video guys. A little late but, thanks for helping out the up and coming basement dwellers ;)
P.S. I have a Polytune 3 on my board and it gets me there good enough. I still squeeze the neck too tight when I play barre chords maybe I should tune to 432 to compensate ;) *joking*
A true reflection of my life: cup of tea, 339 on the knee, actually excited to watch two blokes talk about what might be the most boring subject on earth. Well done for making it work! I’ve been hanging my nose over the Peterson, but my Korg pitch black has never let me down. Might fancy one of the smaller ones of that.
Saddened you didn't get a Boss TU-100, but understand the requisite hire of Wembley Arena to fit it in would have probably made the episode very expensive.
The biggest thing you missed is that some tuners offer true bypass or buffering (ie, Polytune and Boss), and some offer two output lines so you can send one dry signal to your DI with no effects for post production altering, and a separate one through your pedalboard/amp first. That’s the biggest reason I went with the Boss Waza tuner, because it has two outputs, buffering, and true bypass, along with both chromatic and strobe tuning options.
I'm looking at getting my first tuner pedal. Seems like what I have seen and read, the Boss TU3 Waza is a really solid choice and I'm thinking that is what I am going to buy.
TC Polytune is an ingeniously designed machine. The all-six-at-once function is not quite as accurate as tuning the strings individually, but when your singer likes to launch from one song right into another with a 1 second pause, it's handy. Tuning guitars is always maddening. In the studio I find myself tuning for individual parts (say, 2 arpeggiated lines that go for 8 bars), tracking, and then tuning again for a different part. Tuning is so important on playback. Live... as someone else said, one second after you start playing things start to go. As long as you're trying to keep it close, you're okay.
Not only were you able to make an entire hour on tuners interesting, it appears that you had to edit this one down more heavily than perhaps any other TPS episode just to get it down to an hour. Which is awesome.
After reading thumbnail i wasnt sure if this one's for me guy's turns out i was wrong . I learned alot more then i thought i would do. so thanks, oh also the look on micks face when dan mentioned should a band tune using the same tuner was priceless. Lol 👍
It's called a strobe because the input signal was amplified and used to modulate a lamp shining on the divided wheel. The strobing of the lamp caused the division markings appear to stop in space. To improve accuracy there were multiple sub divisions of the markings. The larger divisions allowed you to get from way off pitch to close at which point the small divisions would start to slow down and stabilize and you could fine tune from there using the smaller divisions. The so called strobes these days digitally mimic these concentric divisions. I spent the middle '70s selling pianos and we were all taught to touch up tunings using the original Conn strobes. There were charts for each piano saying how many cents to offset each note. As you demonstrate low pitch strings tend to sound sharp as they're struck hard. Higher pitches tend to sound flat to the ear. So pianos are tuned with a "stretch" where the bass is set flat and the treble is progressively sharp. Very experienced piano tuners do this by ear, the rest of us used charts provided by the instrument maker. Electric pianos like the Rhodes or Whurly are similarly stretched. Hammond organs and most synths are not. So you can go crazy getting chords in tune depending on what you're playing with. I've long tuned the B and high E slightly sharp to make notes higher up sound in tune with Rhodes and sound "brighter".
Steve Kirby I apply the same stretch principle on guitar strings; based on experience it’s what sounded best to me. I consider people who tunes pianos mostly by ear admirable. And yes, analog synths can be problematic regarding running, an ever present touch of vibrato can help sweetening that perception and be easing for the brain :-)
I've had the Peterson pedal for a couple of months now, after using a Peterson clip-on for years. I love the pedal! One of the useful things for me as a slide player that you didn't cover was the fact that Peterson includes sweetened tunings for Open G, Open D, Open E, etc, etc. These tunings are Guided Tunings, which don't display the note but instead the string number. Using the string number means that you can switch quickly from one tuning to another without having to remember (or reconstruct) the string sequence for each tuning.
I tidied the sock drawer, did my paperwork, cleaned the bathroom couldn’t put it off any longer. I watched an hour of tuning...and...enjoyed it and learned something.
Im loving my new TC Polytune 3. The Strobe Mode is Excellent, and a quick strum between songs - let's you quick-glance, if something is a little-off. I also like the new Ibanez Big Mini Tuner. I keep a little Snark SN-8 in my Acoustic Guitar case, which also works great. You 2 are Legends . . . to make this so interesting.
Same tuners and methods. One studio owner said some bands if left to tune up themselves was a trainwreck. He realized that if he tuned all the instruments himself with his method, things went much smoother and quicker with better results.
I avoided this episode until now because I thought "what can this topic possible add?". Finally watched it. Amazing what I learned. I can't believe I put it off for so long! Thank you guys! Great episode!
...ok so at 21:30 you make a great point about how hard you pluck the string being tuned...I was a pro touring tech for 20+ years, and even NOT tuning the harmonic and using the open "E" for example in a live situation ( meaning, tuning the guitar for the NEXT song, while the current song is being performed), I always attempted to mimic my guitarist's attack...it was a point of emphasis for us working together for years...it makes a difference...and I always used Peterson Strobe tuners backstage, whereas the last player I toured with used the tuner built-in to his Boss GT-3 effects unit onstage...
Based on your four important criteria (I agree whole heartedly), I had just purchased recently Peterson's new StroboStompHD tuner. It is incredibly accurate first and foremost and the ease of viewing is hard to beat. I also have their StroboClip version which is very handy to have if your pedalboard is not with you. Also have their phone app and it's just as accurate as their others. Great combination, never without a Peterson!. They are #1 for very good reason. Thanks for the show
Just got the new Peterson StroboStomp LE today. Came here while I reorganize my board to compensate for space. I had seen the standard version on some of your boards on previous episodes and loved how big the screen is. I previously was using the TC Polytune 3 Mini, and based on your opinions, and the fact you use it, the StroboStomp is a worthwhile investment/purchase! Cheers LEG ENDS "A nan on a quad bike getting ice cream" 💀😂💀
Good episode! Wasn’t sure how you’d fill nearly 58 minutes with tuning info, but it was over before I even noticed the elapsed time. :) I like Peterson’s GTR sweetened tuning with shorter scale (below 25”) electric guitars, but with 25” and longer scale lengths I go with the unsweetened EQU…just sounds better to my ears. I also prefer GTR for acoustic guitars regardless of scale length. With certain guitars I’ve also just learned over time to tweak certain strings a little sharp or flat.
You can hear that the LP Jr. tuned to A432 is suffering from the intonation not being on point after detuning. It may be miniscule, but it definitely adds to the jarring sensation imho. Thank you both for the in depth dive into tuners. I have to admit my first thought when I saw the video was "Crikey...how much can there be to say on tuners and which one might be right for me?" but it *is* a far deeper topic than a superficial thought would reveal. Excellent stuff gents, thank you.
Dan & Mick: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do a video on pedal considerations when playing a Baritone guitar. I am discovering many, and yet I would imagine I am scratching the surface. Thanks for all you do!
Not so suddenly. Dan has always been throwing Jazzy bits into his TPS playing. He studied Jazz music at college in his youth I believe. Oh wait. Did I just get baited and hooked over the detuned shenanigans ??
TC Polytune 3 is what I use on my 3 boards. I like that you can strum and see all of your strings that are out of tune. Plus it has a nice buffer built-in.
This episode had an effect on me that halfway through this video I fired up my pedalboard and spent 30 minutes fiddling with my Waza Boss tuner and figuring features I never even tried and STARTED READING THE MANUAL! Wht a miracle I started tuning with the 12th fret harmonic again.
When I saw todays title, I thought 'light news week', however I found the whole discussion very interesting and somewhat enlightening too. Cheers fellas :)
When guitars are made with a Gibson type of headstock the strings that go out of tune the most are the D and G strings. It's due to the angle the strings are in after they go from the nut to the tuning machines. If the nut slots aren't cut right they will catch, won't stay in place or flex when they need to move with the tuning machine. The bridge saddles have to be adjusted properly to be intonated and aren't catching and breaking strings.
I came here searching for help on which AU$150 (Polytune) to AU$200 (Peterson) tuner I was off to buy today. Halfway through I discover Peterson does a phone app. $15 later... I know it's not the same, but thank you Mick for saving me $135-$185 Aussie pesos.
Thank you for sharing the information, I am in the market for a tuner myself, and this is very helpful. @31:45 FYI, all the notes does NOT come from the same string. the major scales as we all know today comes from the First non-tonic harmonic. i.e. C -> first non-tonic harmonic is G. then we take that note and repeat the process. G -> D. repeat again D -> A, A-> E the first 5 notes is C, G, D, A, E. can be rearranged to a pentatonic scale C D E G A. that's why pentatonic is such a strong scale. now if we continue the process with E, then E ->B, B-> F#. this become the lydian mode. as you can see in early church music, lydian mode is very prominant. continue with F# -> C# -> G# -> D# -> A# -> E# (F) -> back to C and that's how the 12 notes comes about. however, if you tune it purely to harmonics through the 12 notes, you'll be way sharp. however, if you are violin with 4 strings, you'll be a little bit sharp, and that helps the sound to cut through.
I'm just getting started with pedals and was looking for a comparison of the StroboStomp and the Polytune. Did not expect this wealth of information in such a digestible format! Thank you guys
I’ve been using a Peterson strobe tuner for years, and for me- I’ve been using the sweetened tunings, and swear by them... Tuners are so incredibly important- thanks for taking on such a daunting and personal subject!
Some other possible TPS t-shirt anagrams ... Modulated = phased that low Winter = who salted path Friendly instructor = showed that pal Office temp = oh stapled what If you use any of these, you could thank me with a free T. ;D
I was gonna just listen to this whilst doing some cleaning, but it was way too interesting and got nothing done. In anything you do the basics are always most important. Thanks guys!!
It's all well and good, but... It's all just a compromise and what really matters is what sounds right to you. I've used Peterson tuners since they became affordable and currently use the strobo clip. I generally tune my A to 440 and then work out the rest using the A string as the reference. This is probably because before these affordable electric tuners ever existed I tuned my guitars using an A 440 tuning fork. Tuning to the harmonic vs the open string is fine if your guitar is perfectly intonated, but that is another rabbit hole you can explore later. Once I have the strings all tuned "properly", I play a few chords and sweeten the tuning based on what I'm playing. It's different if I'm playing more open chords vs bar chords and where on the neck I'm spending the majority of my time. I generally leave the string I tuned to A 440 alone and adjust the others, but depending on what I'm doing, I may not have tuned the fifth string to A but instead tuned a fretted string to A. Once I have the guitar tuned to my liking I play for a few minutes and realize it has gone out of tune. Then I just say F' it and start to vary the way I fret each string the best I can.
Fabulous. Thank you so much for this! One issue I had with the TC PolyTune was that the LEDs were too bright for me. They were so bright that it was a struggle to read the display. I'm curious as to whether anyone else has had this issue. I replaced it with the D'Addario, which is quite good, although not as accurate as a strobe tuner. Lately, I've been lusting after a Peterson StroboStomp, but based on this video, I'm going to give the Sonic Research a try.
I once attended a Phil X masterclass where he said that no pedal can actually make you play better, to which I shouted out: "tuner!" Years later I realized my joke may have some truth, when I switched from a TU-3 to a Polytune and found that my taste in chords and even improvisational style had a subtle but immediate change! I'm back on the TU-3 now, I feel more harmonically connected with it.
To clarify about A=440 and equal tempered tuning, the specific pitch, or Hertz is the frequency of vibrations produce a given tone. We settled on the standard of A=440Hz. But, there are two major different kinds of intonation (there are more, but I'm going to talk about the most common). There is just intonation, which is based on the harmonic series. It is based on intervals being simple ratios. So, a perfect fifth is a 2:3 relationship, a major third is 4:3. If A=440, E=660 and C#= 586.67. These pitches are the exact ones we get from the overtone series. This sounds fantastic, so long as you're in the key you used to justify your intonation. That C#=586.67Hz will sound off in another key that isn't C. Major thirds are particularly susceptable to sounding off in other keys. Then comes equal temperment. The modern tuning system is 12 tone equal temperment (12TET). The octave is divided into 12 equal parts, which we call half steps/semitones. These are further subdivided into cents (1/100 of a semitone). These notes are close enough to their just intonated equivalents that they retain their quality, but far enough that they will sound more dissonant than their just intonated intervalic equivalent. The advantage, however, is that you can play in any key with any instrument, and not have to be just intonated to they key the piece you're playing in. The guitar further complicates this. Mick and Dan touched on the intonation issues the guitar has because of string length, but the placement of the frets is a further compromise. Guitar frets are actually a compromise to get close enough to 12TET, but is slightly out. So, to make a long story short, we're never perfectly mathematically in tune as guitarists, but we can get close enough that most people won't notice. For example, unless you hear them side by side, it's very hard to hear the difference between just intonated major 3rds and 12TET major 3rds. For instance, the difference between a just intonated C#4 and a 12TET C#4 is about 4 cents, which is just about at the threshold that the average human ear can discern a difference. Cheers for the video, thanks for reading. TL;DR: We don't tune to the same notes as the harmonic series, and guitar frets are a further approximation, so we're always going to be out of tune by a few cents.
Iv'e used peterson's tuners for years, nothing gets close. It's actually difficult to se intonition without the accurecy of the strob tuner. I see your videos are longer and you are not stopping each other talk/explain/go off on a tangent. It is such a reliaf to me!!!! you guys have improved so much in 6 months. I havn't watched as the passing of my father, I wasn't in the mood. Back to my point it's great that your videos are longer, letting each other speak. When you stop each other it makes me curious to what you where going to say. The way you guys are working now, flowing better it is music to my ears and near damed perfect if I do say so myself. Very well done guys. Other people may not have noticed as they havn't had a long break. Both of you are so much better now, playing better, talking bettrer. I shouldn't be supprised but I think you deserve recognision of how much better your content is, not saying it was bad before, it's just worlds appart better now. I know a lot of what you say already but the bants and just hearing your oppinions. I didn't think it could be done better than you where 6 months ago but your waking it out of the park now guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! respect to the whole team
Thank you so much. Started playing guitar as a child with a pipe tuner (frustrating for a 9 year old). Pedals didn’t become a thing for me till I was in my 50’s. Of course, guitars weren’t a thing for me from my military time till I started playing harmonica and singing in a church band in my 40’s. I still wish I had my Fender Champ i sold for $90 back in the late 70’s. My wife considered my guitar my other mistress when I started playing again. Oh well, still playing (now) and still married after 45 years. LOL
Here’s the only tuning joke I know: If you need your piano tuned, call Oppor-Knockity Tuning Services, but make sure they do a good job because Oppor-knockity tunes but once.
I've been in the market for a new tuner since my 1st generation polytune shit itself 3 weeks ago and I've suffered through many crushingly boring tuning videos. Somehow, you guys have made this informative, educational, interesting AND entertaining! It's the last tuner video I'm watching - I'm ordering a Strobostomp! Hey Dan, greetings from Perth, Straya!
I’ve started using Pedaltrain’s SST, and put it right before my VP so I can still mute it that way. No buttons, no mute option, but it works great and takes up NO space
I can’t believe I actually sat through this… I learned a lot about tuners and tuning because of you guys. Now, I need to mess with my Strobo and figure it out. Thanks for the education.
I’ve had my polytune 2 mini for years now and I never once realized that it’s giving tuning results for all 6 strings while they’re being strummed simultaneously regardless of chord
