Interesting fact learned from Extra History's episode on Julie: she was able to thrive in France during this time because Louis XIV had a much more lax attitude towards LGBTQ+. He had to tread a careful line with it because of the church but his own brother was noted to very much bat for the same team and cross-dress on the regular, and he loved his brother very much. He also found Julie immensely entertaining, I don't think it took much to convince him to give her those pardons when he got to have her at the opera that he founded. Yeah, he founded it and he performed in it along with ballets, which he did well into his eighties. He loved the arts.
Defeating three dudes in a duel at THE SAME TIME because she had better game than them? Being an amazing sword fighter, along with a successful singer? Being a blasphemer? a bisexual icon who controlled her own love life? This woman is a chad and everything I could ever hope to be.
If we're talking about underrated historical icons, may I reccomend a video about Josephine Baker, the 1920s African American singing-dancing bombshell who told segregation-era America to fuck off, became a French Resistance fighter in World War II, and was one of the first black women to become a headlining act in film. Her story deserves to be told to a wider audience.
yes!!! so far the only thing on youtube telling Josephine’s story that i’ve found is Julia from drawfee doing a drawing of her for one of their anime history videos (highly recommended that episode by the way)
I love Josephine Baker so much, I wrote a paper on her in middle school and she was so inspiring to me that at the time I decided I would name my future child after her. She's SO COOL.
I love how they say "I'm surprised she hasn't divorced him yet" like she was allowed to do that. That being said, I'm surprised her husband never divorced her, because he could do that. He either really loved her, or didn't care at all what she got up to
The tale of Julie's exploits is one of my favorite stories in history. A master fencer, opera singer, and an openly bisexual icon. Seriously, how is there not a Netflix miniseries based on her yet?
not gonna lie i did feel weird there was no commentary about Julie's supposed "affairs" happening when she's like a young teenager and the men like her dad's boss are fully middle aged. usually the professor has a note about when things are messed up in history (like Ching Shih and her adopted son). loved the story though Julie sounds cool as hell! appreciate the detail of that one actor guy's puppet getting injured after Julie beat him up.
Mmhmm, I wish Joyce were in this episode. That would have done it justice. I think the professor still did pretty well. I also think the guy from the female Pharoah episode would have been fun for this one. I think the guys also may have gotten confused from the animation of her slicing at every breakup. She didn't kill her lovers y'all. 😂
Yeah Julie didn't mean to burn the nunnery down they were just trying to make it look like her girlfriend was dead so they wouldn't be looking for her. I think the fire just got out of control 😅
was slightly uncomfortable throughout this whole episode and didn't realize why until i read the comments - you guys really did dunk it up with this one
But she also grew up hella privileged during that time so don't be too hard on yourself! You are doing great and even learning history which is more than some can say ❤️
Don't feel bad. You have time. I know that our culture currently can make you feel like you've grown so old and are somehow behind everyone else. But I promise that what you're going through is extremely normal and you are doing just fine for your age. It will be okay.
@@sethharris813average lifespan in the past was heavily skewed due to tons and tons of childhood and infant mortality. The average for someone who survived to adulthood was not that much different from current. "Grew up faster then" is a nice way of saying that the offspring of rich people had to get ready to be married off absurdly young for political points. They also got a much earlier start than those whose family had nothing to launch them into adulthood with. Average people got married in late teens and early 20s then, struggled to get momentum in life just like we struggle now.
Its honestly truly tragic that she probably did find love in the last women she was with, but she died so suddenly and randomly that Julie was probably so heartbroken with her single actual love dying thst she couldnt do anymore after
As a MAJOR Julie D'Aubigny fan (I even got to watch a queer-performed opera about her a few years ago!), I am so fucking happy that y'all did her story. HOWEVER I cannot believe y'all just called Philipe d'Orleans "Louis XIV's brother," so I feel the need to tell people who don't know: Philipe had many male lovers, including his most life-long boyfriend, the Chevalier de Lorraine (who was called "insinuating, brutal, and devoid of scruple" so you know it was an interesting relationship). And he was also a crossdresser, even attending parties/balls in dresses! Within that context its no surprised he got Julie pardoned for fighting three guys who were mad at her for kissing a girl while in drag. I imagine he found it pretty iconic (esp. since he was also a talented military commander). The TV show Versailles has him as a major character & it depicts his queer relationships & crossdressing very prominently, so if anyone wants to know more about him I'd highly recommend checking that out.
julie d'aubigny is the epitome of supporting womens rights and also womens wrongs, ryan and kwesi are talking abt her behavior and while i see their points, im also in complete support of julies ventures and everything she did, god its a great day to be gay
tbh I DON'T see their points, everything she did some other dude was also doing at the same time and they caught zero smoke for it. Not to mention treating her like an equal participant in her affair with her dad's boss/any of her affairs with men, y'know? She was fourteen and he was a grown ass man... they felt hella judgmental, and it's messed up to say her gf's death was karma.
@@GodheadNeeshe burnt down a nunnery and repeatedly beat up/stabbed/killed people. you don't have to go to bat for every "girlboss" throughout history.
@@GodheadNee absolutely lol, me thinking they have a point is mainly with them being like "crime is bad" and i love ryan and kwesi also pointing out that men do it too, but other than that i very much agree with you, theres nothing wrong with a woman having many lovers either (granted she was a minor but thats a whole different issue)
man when miyamoto musashi murders a bunch of dudes he's an icon but when julie does it she's bad because oh nooo crime???😭 i loved this ep and the song's great, but julie def deserved more hype (and empathy!!). maybe if they had more context about just how much women werent living like this back then???? idk
Musashi killed men on battlefields or legalized duels. His opponents went against him knowing death was likely. Julie dueled in a time where it was *illegal* to kill someone during a duel, regardless if they only enforced it for men. Her victims didn't think death was to be the likely outcome.
I just love the constant evolution of Ryan and his fascination of death on this show and commenting how baller it would be to die a certain way to now full on admitting he’d commit murder
I can't believe they left out the part where she'd fence her female lovers' husbands and boyfriends because they didn't appreciate her stealing their women lmao
Fun fact: a lot of the details of Julie’s life may have been made up by her contemporaries in an effort to slander her; it’s unclear what parts of her legend are true and what parts were fabricated.
EXACTLY!! they kept roasting her for living the fast life yet praised musashi miyamoto ‘the world’s greatest/rudest samurai’ for committing acts that were 10x worse
You’re so right! This was a big miss on their part. They should think about how they react to a man with a story like this vs a woman. They’d probably grow as people. I loved the story so much but my husband and I could hardly finish it because of the bad commentary.
I came to the comments looking to see something like this. When they talked about that, I instantly went, "Oh dear. . . That hits a little different now."
I KNOW!! The fact that it's all men really ruined the vibe, plus the fact that Kwesi and Ryan (mostly Kwesi TBH) were hating on Julie the whole time. I knew it was gonna go down like that as soon as I saw the male guest. Really sad that it ended up like this, especially with such a cool subject like Julie.. 🫤
EXACTLY i feel like instead of hyping up her adventurous life, they were just criticizing her specially kwesi. even if she were a man, i'd be hyping him too. this was a fun lifestyle
the whole episode felt a little slut shaming. every dude in france was cheating at the time, but for her it's different because she didnt frequent brothels? tsktsk i expected better
19:48 I did appreciate this from Ryan tho, i think kwesi was doing it more. Him staying like “well that’s what we’ve fucking been doing for years so what?”
Julie managed a level of personal freedom so few woman of that era could ever hope to achieve, all while being considered charming and talented by those around her. It was sad seeing Ryan and Kwesi so negative about her accomplishments/seemed to have no empathy towards her struggles. You certainly didn’t see this level of criticism from the Miyamoto Musashi episode.
Both of these historical figures read like fun personality disorders. But I guess that's how you make it into the books. Nobody got into a history lesson by working a regular 9 to 5 unless something tragic happened.
@@ItsActuallyKate but it wasn't sleeping around that got her in the most trouble. the reason she had to flee so much was because she kept trying to duel people (and winning with a spectacular record btw), so I would say that was the worse behaviour between the two.
@@whovian108She also did a lot of amazing things as well, history is nuanced. I’m not saying she is a good person but the episode focused on criticizing her sex life, something that woman are often criticized on. On other episodes of murderers, such as the samurai episode, the focus was on how cool he was rather than just calling him “crazy” or “toxic”. It felt very mean-spirited.
As iconic as all this is, it’s worth noting that most of our sources for these wild tales of her exploits were written after her death, primarily by people who were known for vehemently hating her. It’s kind of impossible to know how much of it is true and how much of it was made up to disparage her once she was no longer alive to defend herself. If you’re interested in a more historically accurate telling of her life and times and queerness, Kaz Rowe has an EXCELLENT video on this exact topic, breaking down the odds of accuracy for each of these individual stories and more.
“by age fourteen or fifteen she had become the mistress of her dad’s boss.” no, professor……. i don’t think a child can consent to being an adult’s “mistress”……
Because even if its not ok now what happened back then was the norm. And mistress is accurate because it was mentioned that she was married. Marie Antoinette was 14 when she got married
Imagine not being able to consume history content while thinking critically about societal norms at the time, and also how talking about it isn't an endorsment of their behavior for the current times 🥴
Yeaaaah I agree with everyone saying this ep isn’t great, as others have mentioned she lives a similar life to the samurai, yet they condemn her where they praised him. And she never even killed a twelve year old! Lol
Kaz Rowe did an amazing video on her! Specifically on the kind of historical misinformation spread about her sexuality and such! Highly recommend for anyone further interested! :)
The vibes were lacking in this ep - any woman who hears "14 year old girl becomes her dad's boss' mistress" would have alarm bells going off. And obv Julie wouldnt have divorced the guy she got married off to when she was a teenager...nobody there thought about the fact she was a woman in the 17th century? Idk they did a lot of slut shaming assumptions without thinking about how it was to be a woman back then - and on the dueling side Julie did a lot less than our old friend the samurai and still copped more from the panel
"Started an affair with her dad's boss when she was 14 years old" That???? That's called being horrifically abused???? What were y'all thinking this episode????
I know.. they should take this shit down and revise it until they see how fucked up it is. She was FOURTEEN. A CHILD. She was not his 'mistress', she was a VICTIM. This episode is so gross and blatantly misogynistic, I hate it.
I really like Julie's story but the way Ryan and Kwesi were talking bad about her but Musashi got praised for way worse kinda got under my skin. She was fighting back against a world that she felt she didnt belong in and doing things that men never get a second glance for. She is a legend and deserves better than this.
Fr! I felt weird that they were implying she was promiscuous at the point of the story when she just had like 3 lovers + a husband she didn't choose and her dad's boss when she was a child (the last 2 would be categorized as r by all means). Idk, didn't like the vibes of this one at all.
Yeah I did not appreciate the take on this one. At all. Especially the glossing over of a child being in "relationships" with adult men who were in positions of power over her. yikes.
@@AirConditioner402I mean, both were crazy, so both deserve the same treatment. But i appreciate this woman going bonkers in a time when women weren't seen on par with men. but hey, what do I know about history?
In Musashi's case duels were to the death and legal, you went into one expecting to die. In her case there were laws against killing someone in a duel, only because they were only technically enforced on men doesn't mean her opponents were expecting to risk death.
This was one of the weirder episodes- how do you have Ryan and Kwesi talking about a badass, bisexual, opera singing, nunnery burning, swashbuckling icon and it feels like it has less energy than usual? Not to mention how we literally had “I support women’s rights and women’s wrongs” in one episode only to turn around and be like “oh no, woman in bad situation do crime.” I’d love to chalk the “lovers” as a teenager up to being considered an adult at a younger age or different norms or whatever but I don’t feel hella confident in that and idk if they should either 🤷🏼♀️
i do wish that there had been a bit more critical thinking on this story, with like taking her being underage into account and contextualizing the life that women had in this era…idk a lot of the comments felt pretty misogynistic
38:52 Is Ryan for real? SHE sounds exhausting? She sounds like a total badass, who tried the best with the cards she was dealt - being a queer woman in a misogynistic and patriarchal world, married off to a much older man as a young teenager (!) and having to fight for the men around her to take her seriously. Of course she’d start a lot of duels, otherwise they’d never have respected her. Let women have fun and date. She isn’t exhausting. Her surroundings were.
The misogynistic overtone of this episode was SO. GROSS. Like I know that the guys would be head over heels for Julie and her story if she was a man. Disgusting.
@@thiskindasucks3536 gender and sexuality has nothing to do with this. She did disgusting things period. If she was a man it would still be terrible. We can't just ignore her entitlement and naroticism because she queer. Don't commit arson, don't murder, it doesn't matter who or what you are, still be a decent human.
@MicrowaveOvenVideo but we've seen on this channel before that a man will commit similarly heinous acts and the guy's will call him 'badass' and praise him. The arson was undeniably wrong and gross, but the majority of her battles that she won (where she killed he opponent), were fair. It wasn't cold-blooded murder since they were having a duel. So yes, absolutely condemn Julie for the arson! But everything else is explainable for the time she was living in (specifically the to-the-death sword duels). It's so obviously a double standard when they will praise a man for doing heinous crimes and then heavily criticize a woman for doing the same things. It is gender related.
@@thiskindasucks3536 Very well articulated argument. I do see your point and though I may not agree with all of it, you do have some very strong points that do warrant consideration. Very well said!
This episode was so disappointing. Where was this criticism of any of the other "badass" murders they covered. So condescending the way they were telling her to fix her problems when she was honestly so impressive and inspiring.
The energy is so off, what happened to "join the cause or fuckin die?". Some sports fans burned an entire city and we were like yass go off, woman abuse survivor burns down one stupid nunnery to free her girlfriend (who was probably being abused, because nunnery) and we're like "she's toxic"? Hhmmmmm no.
Am I the only one who is kind of horrified that she was only 17? There must have a been a bunch of grooming involved for her to become a mistress at 14...nevertheless, she was fcking based, no doubt on that
To be honest, there avg life span was like 33. Many girls were married off as soon as they reached menstruation. It wasnt uncommon for that to be 13 or 14 years old. Yes groom. But also, yes culture and circumstances.
@@cemmett2008the average lifespan being 33 does not mean that people died at 33. It means that the high infant mortality brought the average of people's lifespans down.
@brightpurple its not just infant mortality. Childbirth was dangerous. At one point 1 in 20 women died during child birth. In some areas of the world that was reduced to 1 in 60. While the actual averages do include infant mortality and childhood death, to act like they were somehow okay without antibiotics, proper surgical techniques and basic hygienic practices is a minimalization. One flu illness could cause a secondary infections and kill an entire household.
@@cemmett2008 I think brightpurple is right though: life expectancy was very much influenced by infant mortality. I am by no means a history or sociology expert, but I'm pretty sure that if a woman managed to survive childhood she could have a long life. Like, well into their sixities and seventies if not more. I mean, nuns existed and I'm sure not all of them died in their thirties. I'm not denying that children being married off to grown ass men was a thing that happened, because it obviously did, I'm just not willing to pass it off as it being more...acceptable? I think in part it's because I'm repulsed, but there must have been at least some people being like "yeah no he's 35 and she's A CHILD that's messed up". It's double as heartbreaking because Kwesi and Ryan point out that she was only going for broken people in her romantic relationships and I'm like yeah. Yeah that's something that someone who was groomed as a child would do, she's traumatized Anyways, I went way off point tl;dr is, this is a very sad story if you think about it
@@cemmett2008 yes, I'm aware. I was replying to your comment that implied that girls were married at 14 due to the average lifespan being 33. This wasn't the case, as many lived into their 70s despite disease, childbirth, war and famine.
Why is everyone ignoring the fact that Julie was molested by her dad’s boss? Considering everything that happened before she was 17, she must’ve been a kid still when her dad’s boss started their “affair.”
The Empress last week abused, used, and killed her own children and y'all called her a girl boss 😅 This week a girl was sent into sexual servitude at age 14 to multiple fully grown men and used her professional athleticism, art, and diplomecy to survive the only way she could. I dont condone crime, but I think it's an amazing story. Women didnt make their way by being kind. I do marvel that she never hd children with so many partners. Pretty big feat.
@@joelle4226 I dunno, I kinda got Narc Mom vibes from the Empress 😅 But her blank grave was definitely a major boss move. I just kinda wish Joyce had been a guest on this episode.
That's the difference in a female guest tbh, brings out the nuances in a story. 😅 I personally don't really love Joyce that much, but at least she appreciates badass women lol.
You're point just made me think, that she might have made those dudes fall in love with her but maybe didnt actually sleep with them? Having sex from 14 to 30 with "oh so crazy many men" would have gotten her pregnant at some point? In my head she was just a lesbian.
@@shubidoe she could have been infertile, or nearly so. it disgusts me thinking she was abused as young as 14-15, especially since the cast just. glossed over that??
La Maupin was someone I came across from my trip to Paris in 2009 ! At the time I was a newly outed bisexual. And I chose to have my 16th birthday at Paris instead I just didn’t want to deal with the unnecessary drama that came with inviting one group of friends to a 15th or 16th birthday. And not inviting another group of friends. As a newly outed, bisexual woman, there was nothing more liberating. To know that this legendary bisexual woman had accomplished so many things in her life. I couldn’t be happier that I found this today.
An icon that maybe should have had a female guest on for the episode. Love Kwesi but it does feel like yall were condemning her for a lot of stuff that was a lot less compared to previous people. I know it's all jokes but it just felt weird considering she was doing a lot for her time to be seen as equal.
like she was 12 w her fencing teacher, became her dads boss mistress when she was FIFTEEN (highly doubt there weren’t any shady ties but they didn’t acknowledge this) kwesi joking about him sleeping with her dads boss like it was in any way likely her choice lol, then married off to her instructor after her father died (still a child).
looove julie d'aubigny i've been obsessed with her for years, so i'm so happy y'all finally did an episode on her! just wanna say though its kinda weird to refer to a grown man she had a "relationship" with at age 14 as her "lover" she was "having an affair" with. a 14 year old becoming her dad's boss's mistress should be called out for the incredibly imbalanced power dynamic it is imo!
@@ladydelulu okay? doesn't mean she wasn't affected by it as a young woman. and then the boys rag on her later in the episode about how wild her life is... maybe she was running away from something!
@@ladydelulu It does because this kind of shit still happens and the reactions that they have in the episode to this exact scenario is part of the problem. Regardless of the perspective of the times or whatever it's still gross as fuck ESP by today's standards and the fact that none of them called that out is... concerning to me at the very least
TOTALLY, as soon as I heard that I thought they were gonna comment about how gross that is (as they've done in the past - or at least I directly remember Shane saying how disgusting that is in other shows), but instead they made it sound like that was her lover and she was like.....actually pursuing that?? at 14?? kinda sounds like her dad either put her in that situation or she was being r*ped by her dad's boss. either way. um. not at all an appropriate response to that.
this episode bothered me for several reasons: first and formost, not ever acknowledging that she was a child for most of the events talked about. yes i am aware that child marriage was legal but that doesn't mean you cant acknowledge that she was a victim. secondly, the misogynistic jokes got really tired really fast. thirdly, as other comments pointed out: saying her lover dying and leaving her heartbroken from her 1 successful relationship was "karma" is just such a strange and uncomfortable thing to say. what the hell?
The karma thing weirded me out too. Especially since it was a same sex relationship between two women. Almost like that "bury your gays" trope, cheering on her dying because lesbian women don't deserve happiness.
Exactly. Talkin bout "she needs to just settle down and stop jumping from relationship to relationship and find god" and then she gets in a long term relationship for love and they're glad it ends? Also being bored with her ending as if they weren't mad about her exciting lifestyle the whole time. Pick a side lmao
Julie was quite the character and had a very interesting life. I had never heard of her before, and I thank the professor for teaching me about this remarkable lady, but the misogyny in this ep was glaring.
Julie d'Aubigny is my favorite historical figure, kinda wish the contestants weren’t calling her toxic and crazy whole time. Yeah her life was wild but usually these specific-person episodes are from the frame of how interesting and cool these historic figures are (which Julie was) and not just insulting them the whole time. Also it was kinda fucked up saying her female partner dying of disease was “karma”.
@@dddgaming885 Their comment is far from an ad populum fallacy. The problem is that they don't usually talk about men this way. She was 17 ! Literally a victim of grooming and she is being vilified for it. I'm pretty disappointed in the guys for this and I'm a pretty big fan.
I definitely agree with you and the other commenters saying how upsetting it was to hear them judge her the entire episode! Also just wanted to say, I had a visceral reaction when they said it was "karma"! That's so fucked up... She also did SO little "bad" things compared to some of the other people the show has talked about before, why does she deserve the "karma" of having her longterm lover die?? Anyway, just wanted to validate you cause I definitely agree
fr :( she seemed to rlly love that girlie and it was very fucked that they called her gf dying karma, like julie seemed to settle n have peace in such a messy life (also being a woman and queer on top of that like!! that already sets u for a life of Mess) and they dont celebrate that? ALSO what rlly surprised me was they were informed of julies age pretty early on in the story and then just,, proceeded to deadass slut shame and in-general just shame her?? im sorry but what the fuck? and i didnt even need to read the comments to get the gist that her first "lover" (more of her fucking predator!!) was Way Way older than her AND THEY WERE FUCKING?? thats messed up! and they should have acknowledged it as so! and i thought the shit she did would be like celebrated or at least like theyd have fun w it cuz haha murder and also julie is just in general an icon no?? why do we all of a sudden care ab the morality of the actions of the subject of the video lmao
it's the misogynistic "jokes", and shaming someone who was groomed by someone 32 years older than her when she was 14 AS IF IT WAS HER FAULT???? if this was a man they would've been singing his praise and bad-assery for sure
@@LindaC616 Canon, a shortening version of canonical, a religious word that meant it was accepted fact withing the Catholic faith. It has since evolved to be a pop culture term, as well, still meaning fact within this universe. In this case, I was referring to the Professor's lore, of which there is a surprising amount, but we don't know a whole lot about how he works. But apparently the Professor's Jimmy Henson is up is "up inside" of his body, something that we did not previously know.
@@LindaC616 how do you mean? As far as I'm aware, you haven't made any jokes that could have gone over my head. But maybe misspelling cannon is actually hilarious, my bad.
Hoping you eventually cover Chevaliere D'Eon, who was a trans French woman during the time of the mid 1700s and was so accomplished and respected that even King Louis XVI recognized them as a woman. She acted as a spy and an informant for the French Government and her life gives an extremely interesting look into court intrigue prior to the French revolution.
Heck yeah! Learning about historical Trans icons gives me life. Especially badass women getting the respect they deserve. Definitely going to have to read up on her.
that would be interesting! but theyd need to have a trans guest star on who can actually relate to the history lesson on a personal level instead of putting ppl on the panel who are literally bored of it
The way Ryan and Kwesi talked about Julie was really off-putting. This girl was literally BROUGHT INTO this 'debaucherous lifestyle' at the age of 14 -- no 14 year old can CONSENT to becoming someone's mistress, and her father saw fit to marry her off the very same year. She literally preferred wearing men's clothes because all the men in her life sexualized her when she was literally a /child/. Yeah she left a trail of broken hearts in her later years, but you don't suffer years of abuse like that and get sexualized like that AND learn how to have a healthy relationship. Julie's young adult behavior was desperate and passionate BECAUSE of the circumstances of her formative years, not because she was some 'wild firecracker'. I can't say for sure what she was looking for in those relationships, but it's devastatingly heartbreaking to me that the moment she finds GENUINE stability in someone that can love her for who she is, that person DIES and it sends poor Julie in a spiraling depression.
I looovveeee her!! My friend Kelsey Milbourn who is a writer and fight choreographer is currently working on a play about Julie and I’m so excited for it. So happy the Professor is telling others about her story :) Edit: I love how the merchant’s response was “oh shit my daughter is gay, I should send her to a women-only compound!! That’ll make her not gay!” Edit edit: tbh huge missed opportunity to have a woman as the guest for this one. Would have loved to see her reactions 😁
Saying that a fourteen year old "became a mistress" should have been an immediate red flag and edited out of the script. She's not a mistress; she's a child. That's not her lover; that's her abuser. Kind of wild (and disappointing) that they left that line in. Not only that, but her "relationship" with her father's employer, her marriage, and her flight with Séranne ALL occurred in 1687. She was fourteen years old that whole time. Even talking about a seventeen year old D'Aubigny, this is a child that Ryan and Kwesi feel comfortable calling "crazy" and "toxic." Pardon?? There's room for nuance; I'm not asking that the contestants just hyped Julie up as a girlboss - although that would have been infinitely more fun than forty minutes of vaguely misogynistic takes on a 17th century queer girl (since, again, she was a minor throughout most of this story). Unfortunately this episode was a bit of a miss. I love the show and all three of these men individually, but her story needed to be handled with much greater care and compassion (queer and female watcher fans deserve that). I hope that this can be an opportunity for growth.
I should remember to not try to do my makeup while I watch these, because "next question: how many nuns did she fuck?" made me bust up laughing so hard that I had to completely redo my eyeliner
In the professor's defense, starting out a lecture with "I'm trying my best, you'll just have to believe me" is pretty common in historical academia. People are lying, dramatic little bitches, always have been, so it's often hard to separate gossip and bragging and propaganda out from the facts, especially the further back you go. Actually, if someone doesn't start off a story this scandalous with some equivalent of "I'm trying my best, you'll just have to believe me," I'm much LESS likely to trust them.
I love Kwesi but I do feel the vibes were off this episode, Julie is truly an icon and I’m not a huge fan of constantly calling her toxic when she was just trying to live as woman in a bad time to be a woman, Joyce really would have loved this story
I'm glad that when i scrolled down to the comments i wasn't alone in my feelings. How these dudes didn't catch their own hypocritical comments was wild. Usually Ryan at least catches himself when he's being hypocritical. She was a CHILD for so much of this story.
i love this show so much but how come when miyamoto musashi murders people and does crazy shit he’s badass but when julie does some arson to save her lover you all rag on her the whole time??
If you guys like this story, you should really check out the Greek Myth of Medea. (The opera mentioned at 37:15 is retelling it.) Kind of similar female heroines. You'll see why Julie was able to capture the characterso well. Overly Sarcastic Productions has a great video on it!
honesly, having your partner die leading to you retiring every crazy bone in your body and living the rest of your life in solitude sounds like classic wlw heartbreak
Honestly Julie seems like a badass who dealt with her trauma in the only way she knew how. Poor thing. I hope her last years were happy, full of love and music. What an amazing woman!
It’s unfortunate we will never know how her voice was. Unlike Beethoven and Mozart, the work can be heard through music notes and instruments but to hear her would’ve been amazing.
Gonna have to be with the comments saying the vibes felt off this episode, sorry gang. Thanks for sharing her story but please try to be more careful with the comments next time!
Oh hell yeah! New Puppet History! I'm still having a hard time accepting The new/very old(?) Professor. He's just not the same cute little fuzzball. He's now becoming kaiju due to dinosaur adoption and while that's adorable in a way I'm slightly unsettled by it.
really not comfortable with uncritically calling an adult man preying on a teen girl as "being a mistress" and "having an affair" like :( u could describe it more accurately like come one.
the energy was really low in this one, and i feel like some stuff was really glossed over... they were really ragging on this iconic bisexual girlboss this ep 😔
So many of her badass moments were just ignored I mean, returning the stuff she stole from the guy she beat up the next day to prove she was the one who beat him? Beating three men in a duel at the same time? Having the self respect to refuse the money that dude in Brussels tried to give her? They even made fun of her for the last one… the misogyny really jumped out in this one.
I love you guys and I love this show, but the vibes were just off this episode. Felt like y'all were being super critical of her not settling down and being calmer. Like, sure she did some stuff that maybe wouldn't be great, but it doesn't seem like she did anything really heartless and I've seen y'all go wild for way worse people on this show. She was just a queer woman(?) trying to live a life she wanted in a world that wasn't super conducive to it, and I wish y'all hadn't ragged on her so much. No hate, I love you boys and I will continue to do so.
Honestly what an icon, I wish you didn’t shamed her so much when the things she did weren’t even that bad (good for her to burn the nunnery and rescuing her lover) Also, I don’t think is appropriate saying she had “lovers” or that she was the “mistress” of men who were so much older when she was just a teenager and that makes the song much more distasteful. When Ryan said it was “karma” that her girlfriend and love lasting love died I think it was mean
@@carnuatus I don’t think the nuns would treat well a woman that was sent there for being with another woman, so even if they are oppressed that doesn’t make them good persons. Also about burning the house, Julie didn’t mean to burn the nunnery she just wanted to free her lover so it wouldn’t made sense for her to burn the house when her girlfriend wasn’t even there
I will say two things, 1) "mistress" was essentially an official job at this period in France. She was technically a mistress. And 2) not every nun was either oppressed or oppressor. While many young women were sent to a convent for not following societal norms many women chose to go to convents to get out of societal norms, a lot of queer women became nuns, cloistered from the oppressiveness or society and able to study, make art, hang out with other women all day. History is never black and white with heroes and villains.
THANK YOU! I know I'm late to the party, but it didn't sit well with me that they said she entered into a "relationship" with Louis de Lorraine at the age of 14. Not only was she UNDERAGE, but he was also significantly older and held power over her. I get that it's fun to joke about her relationships, but that's not a relationship. That's predatory sexual abuse. She had no power in that dynamic, so can we stop equating it with an actual relationship and call it what it is?
obviously both things are shocking in our modern politics, but her being a "mistress" is just, accurate; history can suck, but its still just the truth. although yeah, the guys didnt really handle this one well. kinda weird considering theyve been relatively positive to other stories about women in history
Watching Ryan & Kwesi get increasingly agitated & triggered by this woman’s story, I can almost hear the echoes of men throughout history seeking to control & punish women. “Burn the witch!” “Get thee to a nunnery!” “Get back in the box, Jezebel!” The amount of misogyny that suddenly sprang from all the men here was really something to behold. All of them suddenly became enthusiastic enforcers of patriarchy. Anything that controlled women was good & fine. (A 14-year old girl becoming the “mistress” of her dad’s boss, a woman being put in a nunnery for being gay, etc.) Anything that interfered with that control of women was an outrage & must be punished! (A woman escaping a nunnery, choosing many partners, fighting men, kissing women, oh no! She’s a demon! She must be stopped! To them finally accepting the death of her female partner as sufficient “karma”.) Julie’s real sin here was not conforming to expected gender norms for women. In Kaz Rowe’s video on Julie, they talked about how men of the time would often write violent porn about lesbian/non-conforming women & how men would try to “posthumously punish” Julie when telling her story. It’s fascinating/terrifying to see this same exact dynamic play out in real-time, 300+ years later. Men haven’t changed much.
I hope other people read your comment! I love Kaz’s video on Julie and they really unpack so much context people should understand. You summarized just what I was thinking while watching this.
ok but now I am obsessed with her.. what a life!! she really lived it up and honestly not everyone is meant for romance so she lived her truth I guess.. the song was amazing!! Cupid's hair! what an icon
Really Julie was one of the few lgbtq+ women through history who basically lived life ti the absolute fullest without genuinely giving a crap and that’s something I can admire
"shes running away from something" maybe being sexually abused at 14-15 and then being a fugitive before your 18th birthday would do that. julie never did anyhting wrong in her life and you all are so wretched for getting down on this kid.
