The Scattering Of The Primarchs - 40K Theories 

Always a pleasure to work with you Remleiz! I hope you all enjoy our captivating voices!

"I wanted to protect my sons, so I yeeted them into Hell" Erda

Thank you for having me as Konrad Curze!!! It was so much fun to portray someone on the edge of madness!!!!

"Yes, now they're safe away from him" The emperor after he learns the butcher's nails is slowly killing Angron and he can't remove them "Look what she did to my boy..."

Techpriest: My Lord, why do we need to surround your laboratory with our most powerful Gellar Field? Man Emperor of Mankind: No reason. No reason at all.

Astrates basically enacted the worst custody battle in galactic history and now the Emperor only gets his kids during weekends and holidays

ARGEL TAL! YOU CAN'T DO THAT! YOU WILL CREATE A TIME PARADOX! *MGS3 game over theme*

"I'm sorry sons that I threw you into the sea of literal mind r*ape and scatterd you unto different worlds, some of which enslaved, used, tried to kill and mutated you beyond recognition. But you see, me and your dad just wanted different things and in these kinda things there are no good guys and bad guys, just people trying to do whats best." I'm gonna stick to the word bearers scattering them, as they cost me significantly less brains cells to process what happened.

Alpharius: What do you believe? A. Chaos Gods scattering the Primarchs. or B. How Karen took the kids, the Warhammer 40k way.

If the Emperor really chose the planets then he REALLY wanted to abort Angron.

Yes the unhappy mother scattered them, but what did she use to achieve it? A spell? A warp gate? A deal with the devil? Did anyone explain that tiny detail?!

The scattering did not suit the Emperor's plans and did no favour to a good part of the primarchs. Malcador made it clear that they would have wanted more time to educate and instruct the primarchs. So I question that any of this could have been part of E's plans. Maybe though he did foresee such an event. Erda makes little sense...

You forgot the Theory where GW realizes they layed a Gigantic turd with this and retcons the conversation/events out of Canon.

I think Erda is an unreliable narrorator. She was possibly corrupted herself by the chaos gods even and manipulated by them to do what she did. What sane woman would throw her children into the warp after all? Especially one in the Emperor's inner circle who might even know of it's horrors more indepth.

I will stick with the chaos god's scattering the primarchs. Creates more mystery. The other idea that some random woman was the cause of the primarchs scattering, is just silly and not logical.

Emperor: what are you doing? Erda: what am I doing? Emperor: thwarting my plans? Erda: thwarting your plans? Emperor: well are you? Erda: no? Emperor: good cause that'd be bad Erda: how bad? Emperor: id have to kill you bad Erda: that's bad Emperor: indeed.. that's a stupid looking watch you have

It's important to note that Fulgrim was supposed to land on Chogoris and the Khan on Chemos; someone swapped them at the last minute.

I tend to believe the Chaos gods actually DID surprise Emps I’m stealing his sons, but then he quickly went Avatar mode and forced them out of the Warp and luckily put them on planets that would fit them. And “Gene-Mother”?? (Fuck off on that one, GW)

A act that caused so much strife, so much death, that it was thought to have been prepatraited by DEMONIC GOD'S is contributed to.................................................a angry woman. 5 out of 10 for story telling, 10 out of 10 realism.

I really think this was engineered by the Emperor, as I believe he also engineered events much further back in history.

It was the will of Gork and Mork.

I still think part of the scattering is related to the Emperor's pact with the four he made on Molech. Admittedly there is no direct evidence, but the pact was to spread the worship of chaos across humanity and that's definitely the case now. Regardless of how the Emperor turned his back on Chaos after it was made the pact was ultimately fulfilled.

My impression is that The Emperor saw that the Chaos Gods were going to try to sabotage the project, but also realised that if it was messed with by someone else's hand, it could still be salvaged rather than lost. One future would have led to the certain ruination of his scheme, the other held a chance of it still being workable, so he rolled the dice. To this end, he used the opportunity Urda's attempt provided to push the infant Primarchs into worlds that would at least resemble environments he intended for them. Her actions were still sabotage of his design, but one designed to save rather than destroy the Primarchs, so it was by far the preferable option. Unfortunately, many of the environments were not perfect. Angron ending up with the Butcher's Nails, for example, was an unforseen concequence of this gamble, as was Lorgar's fanaticism. What little we know of the Lost Primarchs also points to the unpredictable outcomes of this gambit too, which is why they needed to be expunged. All the others more or less abided by the Emperor's designs, but these two may not have. If they ended up developing into vastly different people than intended, such as being influenced by xenos influence in their formation, then they would have represented wildcards that could not be afforded and were removed because of it.

"Who was responsible?" It was Alphariu- wait

The book "false gods" describes how the Emperor stopped the Primarch's capsules in flight (the first to fly into the warp was the capsule that Horus struck - 11th Primarch's Capsule) ... but then, looked at Horus, and released the rest of the capsules ! all, except for the eleventh, the emperor could not let go ... if he wanted

Konrads voice sounds bad ass😍 ... also best mother award goes to Erda who yeeted the babys into the the warp *clap clap

Simple explanation: the fool that wrote saturnine didn't read the first heretic

So basically Karen take the kids

I wish I could remember the Horus Heresy book it is in but there are Demons talking about how they chose the planets the Primarchs landed on.

Can't actually recall ever hearing the Thunder Warriors high gothic name before. Thank Remleiz!

Erda: taking away the emperor sons from him to bring them to a even worse fate of a slow bleed of Hersey Great idea

40kis really cool yet infiuriating, how is It possible that everytime something happens its always so messy on the details, at this point i wouldnt be surprised if the reason Theres so little concrete evedence is because the emporore accidentally spilled coffee on his diary after the primarks were scattered

I think Erda is the biggest canonical mess that GW has ever created and pushed upon the lore for no reason whatsoever.

Emperor damn it I love your channel, for years now I listen to your voice and I love it. Please keep making videos

“Hey, Vegeta. Watch me execute this criminal.”

Chaos Gods : We will ruin his Primarchs project, lmao. Emperor of Mankind : **Yeeted them into the warp** Chaos Gods : **Surprised Pikachu face**

Glad you covered this topic today. Been wondering about it

Wait...how long has Erda been around for?! I mean in the lore, I'm only hearing about her now!

I would love to see a what if scenario where the Primarchs all end up on the same planet and thus grow up together. It would be interesting to theorize how they would shape one another's development.

I believe, as stated in the video, that a mixture of all three possibilities is the truth. As Curze said, the Emperor can see the future. It's most likely that, much to his despair, the Emperor saw that he could not train his Primarchs effectively and keep the Chaos Gods away from them. So instead, he let it happen, but on his terms. He let the Word Bearers destroy the Gellar Field, he let Erda cast the Primarchs into the warp, but using his immense power he ensured that each son would be sent to a world where he would thrive and continue the path the Emperor had originally planned for him. This way, He most likely believed the Chaos Gods would rest on their laurels and not intervene in the Primarchs lives any further before the Emperor could find and reintegrate them into the fold.

Erda is the villain of all villains then. She caused the inevitable destruction of Mankind.

Can we all just take a moment to appreciate how perfect Taka's Kurze voice is

"I know! I'll take my boys on a lovely holiday!" "Balls."

Can we just appreciate for a moment how fucking meta Konrad Curze's quote is here? He, *in universe* , is referring to himself and his brothers as *Characters* questioning whether or not they were placed where they ended up deliberately by their Father (read "Creator") that you can easily interpret as Games Workshop, pondering if it was all part of some grand design. Damn dude.

Reading the future in 40K is difficult, you often get many conflicting visions. The Emperor understood this and simply insured a win condition for every scenario.

You just blew my mind, this is the very best WH40K channel indeed.

The salt here is so legendary. People not realizing that Emps is from Anatolia, people saying that Abnett doesn’t read the lore.. he writes it, and has for longer than most people have been in the hobby. having more background on the primarchs and having a Big Mama (Or Eva) to the Emperor’s Big Boss is a good change. Good stuff my guy.

Erda: _attempts to sabotage Big E's plans by scattering the Primarchs_ Big E: _steeples fingers and smirks_ "Just as planned." Tzeentch: "OI! THAT'S MY THING ASSHOLE!"

tricking the Chaos Gods into thinking they accomplished one of their goals while it was secretly one of the Emperor's goals that he influenced the outcome of seems like a very Emperor thing to do

He did seem pretty calm when facing ghost Horus, I thought. Like "oh no. Whatever you do, don't scatter yourself. Waaiiit..."

A very extremely awesome video as always 40k Theories.

if the emperor really did had a hand in scattering his son's, then a new question would be. why?

I'm surprised no mention of Horus's vision of the gene labs and him seeing the pods being cast into the Warp.

I'd take anything Curse says about fate with a massive amount of salt.

Konrad is always considered insane but that dude will spit some seriously interesting and thought provoking shit....

This to me confirms that Big E wanted or was at least expecting a counter play from chaos, and was expecting the great heresy

THANK YOU Remleiz for doing this vid! I know it's bein a while since I asked but im glad I waited!

Takahata really hit it out of the park with Kurze.

Erda is a worse parent than Emps. She claims to care yet scattered them without knowing if they would survive, or even have good parents to raise them. Then she never went to look for them. What did Emps do? Halted most of his plans and gathered his forces just to find his children. What was he gonna do? Use them to bring humanity forward. And people say Emps doesn’t care.

Wasnt part of the reason Horus was angry at the Emperor because he saw the him walk into the room before the pods went into the warp rift and just kinda let it happen? I know its time travel/Chaos vision but I got the feeling Horus knew the Emperor could have stopped it but didnt

It's Erda and the word bearers! She fled to cadia trying to escape the emperor's wrath, she lived there by the name of Ingathel thinking she had saved her sons. Once she saw the astartes and her son Lorgar, she thought that her plan had not worked, so she went in the warp with the word beares to scatter them, that way helping her past self and making a causal loop

The irda story sounds like maybe she was the one who tipped off chaos to exactly what was happening, and the word bearers became the tools used to do it. She would take credit, they did it....

I quite like the theory that the deal the Emperor made at Moloch was less about increasing his powers and more about acquiring various Warp entities or shards thereof to serve as the souls of his Primarchs. This would posit that the reason the Primarchs ended up on worlds suited to their natures was because they were, on a subconsious level, in control of their path through the Warp as infants. This would also explain why they ended up on planets at all, despite how incredibly unlikely that is to happen by random chance. I think it likely the Emperor knew it was coming but was still trying to avert it. Redundant Gellar fields, such that both Erda and Argel Tal both had to deactivate different ones to make the scattering possible, etc. When they were scattered anyway, vengeance was not sought against Erda simply because he couldn't blame her for something he'd already known was going to happen one way or another. Similar to Kurze going fatalistic in response to his own visions, but only going fatalistic after he'd failed to thwart it rather than before like Kurze. I think he did see as far as the 42nd Millenium, but I think he was dealing with a multitude of possible futures rather than one unified vision of history. Chaos being what it is, you can't predict its actions with perfect accuracy, so he had to do a lot of hedging of his bets, a lot of putting contingencies in place to avert the worst possible futures and prepare countermeasures for bad futures he couldn't fully avert. Preparations for other futures that never ended up coming to pass, like the village he had in the Palace for the Primarchs to be raised in. He is pitting his own human will against the fundamental forces of the cosmos and the darker parts of human nature at the same time. No one ever said it was going to be easy, or even a sure win. Even for someone as powerful as the Emperor.

No mention of urda's protector, a prototype space marine made before the primarchs. Named leetu, because it's power armor has a small mark on it: LE 2. Legion 2.

The emperor had foresight so maybe he saw what was going to happen but instead of fighting it he allowed it to happen but on his terms maybe the chaos God's wanted to throw the primarchs in the warp where they would never be found but the emperor will is what made them land on planet's within the imperiam but still not to the point where he knew what worlds they landed on but still knowing that they wasn't lost in the warp for ever. Great video man really interesting.

I absolutely loathe this development and hope it either gets re-re-retconned - I don't know how many we're up to now - pretty darn quick. But you did a great job of telling it, so in the spirit of not shooting the messenger I'm thumbing up the video :)

I thought that Cegorach had a hand in swapping out the worlds that Fulgrim and Jaghatai landed on as a way to mess with Slannesh's plans.

But which one is my primarch

The Emperor is definitely a master of plans within plans, so I could see him having a contingency in mind for this sort of eventuality.

Well if it was the Emperor's own plan, it explains a lot about Angron and the Butcher's Nails...

Gotta love that someone seeing the Emperor for the mad man he is, a mass murderer beyond the scope of compare, is not seen as a good enough reason to not give him the kids to some people.

Consider the 20 suites of unused Primarch quarters that Corvus found

The Emperor's baby mama drama.

I believe the fickle whims of the warp itself deposited the nascent primarchs on worlds most in tune with them.

I definitely think the Emperor had this figured out already. Like, specifically I'd always thought it was a bit too on the nose that Leman Russ, the primarch with wolf dna, would randomly end up on a planet called Fenris- to the point it seemed kind of stupid and immersion breaking. That being the plan all along makes it feel a lot more sensible.

Don't forget the the emperor was there when they were cast away, in the first heretic he simply waves his hand and closes the warp rift before just opening it again

I would say that Argal Tal Likely gave Erda the opportunity to to scatter the primarchs by destroying the Gellar field generator. While either she or the emperor managed to guide them to planets that suited their personalities. I think that while the emperor could definitely see the future he couldn’t see all of it such as how he didn’t know how the heresy would end and needed the Astropath to tell him the outcome.

Absolutely Nobody:...... Konrad: IT WAS A CONSPIRACY THEORY! Edit: To be fair, honestly I've always had the same idea. It's always seemed way too convenient for everyone to just land on a world perfectly suited to them. I always assumed it was part of whatever bet/deal Big E made when he went to the warp that first time.

I have one crazy theory, what if Scattering was all Emperors work, done so to give both him and his troops a solid reason to launch Great Crusade and start the conquest, without questioning if this idea isn't overly ambitious and megalomanic, just to give his people reason to believe they don't do conquest just for sake of it

I think the reason The Emperor didn't go after Erda, is because he realized *why* she did it. Out of love for her children, and while he certainly was known to be petty and vindictive, in the various stories and interactions we've seen between him and Malcador, he truly seems to care about his sons, something I doubt he can blame their mother for also doing.

Takahata as Konrad sound very nice.

From a gore-soaked data slate encased in warp ice, dated to the Horus Heresy, but used only minutes ago ... Tech Priests familiar with such warp oddities have verified its recording to be an authentic artifact of Konrad Curze, VIII Legion Primarch. "My childhood? Mum, Dad, Argel Tal and the Hole-in-the-Plot Ghost? I actually like to think of it as being multiple choice, like which lookalike is in charge of the Alpha Legion. But I haven't been this bummed since I learned my real name from The Blinding Blind Bungler. Mom's name is Erda? How many of you kids out there thought your parents' first name sucked the first time you heard it? I can only imagine HIS real name. (mumbles ... Moe?) "But yeah, it's amusing how The Great Golden Farseer (HA!) picked our legions. Gives me Terra's criminals. I mean, what, am I supposed to do? Kill them for the insult to Night Haunter? Rehab them as Konrad Curze, this avenging raptor of the Emperor's law? Perfect them as vicious psychological warfare soldiers, which was the hidden motive behind Terra's Holy Mastermind? Pfft. Whatevs. Honestly, my bunch doesn't matter; I failed on all three counts and they're a worthless legion of losers anyway. But I figure that's better than Magnus' kids and how Grandpa Golden Throne treated them and Mags ... 'Here son, here are your sick children; you're smart, I'm sure you'll find a cure for them turning inside out from warp madness. I got to be at the gym in 26 minutes -- BYE!!!' "PS Oh, and thank you for not making me sound like a backwoods Vostroyan or Valhallan auditioning as ancient Terran warlord Vlad Tepes like in the earlier video, cyberdonged one."

My question for the Imperial side of things has always been why, with enough samples and enough scientists left knowledgeable about the processes, the Emperor couldn't have made replacement Primarchs if he was desperate. The quotes from some of them about their own nature being that of the Warp makes some sense in that regard, if they're in fact one time deals and creations that he couldn't actually replicate, but I dunno. Erda wasn't very forthcoming on that path, but she seems not to have considered he might just make more, perhaps, again, because he legitimately couldn't and thus had to get the originals back.

After reading the conversation between The Nighthaunter and Sanguinius, I have been wonding quite a bit about if having the primarchs was no accident and even having those sons fall to Chaos / turn traitor was part of some grand design by the Emperor ?

The Warp Gods within each Primarch were drawn to worlds that suited them, that's definitely how I see it. And I believe it was the Emperor's humaniy that drew him away from enacting vengenace on Erda. I like to think the Word Bearers were in a halfway point between reality and illusion, where their actions influenced the world to their eyes, but in reality the influence was indirect

1:58 Ah yes, and our emperor, Johnny SPESS.

A vengeful Thunder Warrior masquerading as the Janitor perhaps.

So basically the scattering of the primarchs is the origin story of Moses but with more bloodshed and everything going terribly, terribly wrong for everyone.

holy crap, takahata101 is konrad curze? couldn't tell!

I need taka to voice konrad in tts

I think the big e thought he was playing the chaos gods but he himself was the one getting played

Gonna admit: That's the first time i hear about this Erda person, and i'm far from new to 40k

“Erda took the kids in the divorce.”-Emperor of Mankind, circa. M30.

So where does the Laughing God swapping the planets that Fulgrim and Jagatai Khan landed on come into the mix, if the Emperor had the Primarchs launched off of the moon on purpose?

It is the gods, the rulers of the universe. By this I mean the gods of Games Workshop who have made so many changes and retcons that there may very well not be an answer other than the usual; "It can be whatever you want it to be."

I think the Emperor manipulated Erda into scattering the Primarchs as part of a predetermined deal that he made with the Chaos Gods to enhance his powers when he visited Molech.

The idea of Erda as a character isnt a bad one, i actualy really love the idea of this sortof mother figure.....HOWEVER if this woman knew the emperor for a long time surely she would of known his ambitions? did she learn something terrible? or was that a slight from chaos..... at the moment the whole I sent my sons into mega super hell to protect them, double so given how some of the primarchs ended up and the fact surely she would of known the emperor would find them again anyway......I struggle to accept this writing ill admit

Many people seem to think the idea of the Primarches’ mother scattering them makes no sense because they think she should have seen the warp as worse then being Human weapons. But they are assuming that she was not ignorant of the possible coincidence? Most likely they believed they landing on random planets woulda give them chances at normal lives. I would guess she was manipulated by the dark gods, and then they Parimarch home worlds where chosen by Chose to make each Primarch the more extreme version of what the Emperor wanted, and to make them to desperate from each other to form a long term united front after meeting back up.

Erda, not directly the chaos gods, scattered the Primarchs. She did so on purpose thinking to delay, in her eyes, the Emperor's inevitable failure. She did not know however that the chaos gods would also intervene. Horus was there in some form, and did interact with her father, debatably the word bearers. Valdor remarks that the incident happened, and they did see and hear something, and actual custodians died. The Chaos also address this when attempting to tempt Jaghatai. They say they switched him with Fulgrim, and that the Great Khan should have landed on Chemos and not Chogoris. Vice versa also applies. Most of the stories do not conflict enough to be simultaenously true. Never forget that when the Emperor asks Horus not to do anything, after actually stopping time in the middle of the scattering, merely unpaused time, turned around, and walked away.

9:45 - Fiction's 2nd most horrific version of Batman...he even had the throat cancer voice.