15:43 Riyadh "Actually, I like my chest when i do that." Trainer: "I like your chest when you do th-" *realizes he's being flirty af and stops himself*
Maybe if 95% of our community didn't put so much importance on sex, we'd be able to respect others because we wouldn't always be trying to fit someone in our own sexual box. People have value outside of your sexual box.
THIS. Although, I think in general this is problem with men in general (they hetero men tend to do the same with women) it's doubly felt in our community because of the intrinsic marginalization. It also begs the question as to with whom certain gay choose to surround themselves and why?
"Instead of fighting off the homophobes we're fighting off each other." It breaks my heart to know that this is true. Let's just spread love people ❤️💙💚💛💜
praisethefkingbees such a true statement. We don’t support each other. It is all about image and appearance. If you don’t fit into a 30 inch pants we are not worthy of love in our community.
People normally grow up camp, then realise they're gay later. It's just a narrow-minded pov that guys are gay and so decide to act feminine. You don't choose to be gay nor do you choose to be camp. Not to mention, wtf is so wrong with being camp?
I know people don't choose to be gay but i truly believe that some gay people camp it up to say ''look at me im gay ''. We know that. Im totally against gay pride events because everybody has to let you know what they are and half naked.
Trust me, even if you are gay and just not feminine or camp, no gay guy decides to be camp. They're naturally like that. We live in a society where we are literally surrounded by heterosexuality, but we still prosecute gays for "shoving their sexuality in your face."Clearly, their is a psychological and social correlation between sexuality and behaviour. There's nothing wrong with that. And Gay Pride events are just for fun, you shouldn't take them so seriously or see them as an affront to yourself because, in reality, if you don't like them then they're none of your business. There once a year and no one is forcing you to go. This isn't me wanting to argue with you btw, I realise you will think what you think, but I do hope you start start to see things from a more positive, accepting POV.
"My body doesn't define me" but he still feels the pressure to diet and workout heaps before his photo shoot. The magazine saying that this is about body image issues in the gay community and it's a "raw, real" photo shoot and then you see the models they frequently use and the contouring they do. They state they are fighting this issue and yet they still completely support it.
Eugene Ben-Oluwole I don't see it as a problem, white guys want to be with white guys, black guys with black guys etc, the damn same thing happens in heterosexual relationships. I am white and I'm only attracted to white and asian guys, but I am not attracted to black, filipino and latino guys, does that make me a racist?
as a gay man with body issues myself i feel like the conversation could have touched more on men who are either larger or have a lot of body hair and how some gay men in the community find that they are only seen as attractive when they are someones fetish other than that its a brilliant series.
I love how in an episode about body image in the gay community and how guys are judged so harshly by each other for not being perfect and how they all strive to look perfect, not a single fat guy was interviewed. even in an episode about how body image effects people in the community, the fatties are ignored and hidden away, like a shameful secret.
Sad and somewhat puzzling that a community that has to work so hard to gain acceptance can be so judgemental of its own members. You would think those that have suffered prejudice and discrimination would be more careful not to do the same to others.
I don't think it's just in the straight community. Alot of young straight guys I speak to, have the same fears about seeming too effeminate, not for fear that they might be perceived as being gay (which they have no problem with, champion even!) but because men in modern times have become overly obsessed with male assertiveness and masculinity in general. It's not a popular theory but I'm gonna put it out there anyway, but I suspect it's a reaction to the upswing in the media, of portraying men as incompetent, stupid and worthy only of ridiule. +Ac Cc I don;t know, In my experience, some people just wanna hate. and then theres always the human desire to hate that which is different. I'd be wary of believing that all homophobes are secretly repressed gay people. It's not always true and can get you into trouble assuming it is, for example.
I don't know you and I'm not accusing you of anything because I had similar sentiments as well, but sometimes what we hate in others is what we hate most in ourselves. I grew up Catholic and I had a super masculine dad who looked down on femininity, hence my old outlook. As i got to know more femme guys I found them to be more braver, balls-ie and unapologetic. It's their expression and they're not hurting anyone so why look down on them?
Yeah it is good documentaries like this are being made but it is a shame that there were no larger stocky or above average guys shown in order to get a more all encompassing view of body image.. imo
I thought Jamal was stunningly beautiful. Why do we have to attach a gender to beauty? When you look at works of art, you don't necessarily attach an idea of masculinity or femininity to them. We are what we are, regardless of the labels people try to attach to us. I think it's pretty tough to deal with these issues when it comes to sexuality, as you can feel so vulnerable. Sexual shame can be absolutely toxic, so people need to be more considerate in the way they interact with everyone, especially in dating/sex-related situations. Keep the faith, especially the lovely femme guys out there - you are awesome, you are gorgeous, and those who can't see that, aren't worth your time!!
There's no perfection. Only standards. Find your standard before someone else find it for you. Be self aware of yourself, not of the people who surround you.
This sounds like a torturous existence. Why do they put themselves through this hell instead of making a real set of friends, building real community, and creating real homes for themselves? So sad....
Where was the overweight gay representation? They didn't even have one, not even one of the witty commenters. This "body documentary" focused mainly on being femme and the hardships associated with it.
I'm an adult and for me it's quite confusing, I can't imagine for a young gay man who is struggling with this body. How getting naked in front of camera, with a pretty face and a nice body, can help to understand the body image pressure? If we question a certain narrative, based on abs, perfect bodies, gym, brand clothes, tank top ect., it does not make sense to use the same narrative and end up on a magazine naked.
Have a look at the 'epidemic of gay loneliness' where you can access an article which is important for all gay men to read. it is a terrible indictment on the so called 'gay community' that so many gay men feel disconnected when one would expect the opposite.
"You raw real as it is..." yeah, cuz golden-tan is as real is it is right? Btw, a documentary... and no muscular, butch gay guy was interviewed... talk about biased
So... This is an episode about the unhealthy expectations put on gay men by the community, he then goes on to say he's featuring in a part of a photo shoot for body positivity. Then we have a montage dedicated to him dieting (quite unhealthily by the looks of it too) and exercising before said photo shoot. Next shot is him asking where this pressure in the community comes from, right now it's you?! Changing your body before a shoot and crash dieting/ exercising for said shoot beyond your usual lifestyle / routine is not body positivity. Especially when you have people about how damaging this is between and after the shots.
Caleb Rose he actually did acknowledge that he was feeling the pressure of going to the gym in order to look good for the shooting. So I don't think there's anything contradictive in here. The whole film is about describing a state that most of us are in because of living in the gay community. The interviewer is not saying he's any different or better.
as a person that's not a part of lgtbq+ community I never thought there were that many negative labels and so much hate inside the community, like guys come on you should be united but you somehow manage to shame some people who are on your team!!
One thing i dont get is the fact, that there is so much hate in such a diverse community. We should fight homophobia and should accept everyone who is just trying to be himself. Bi- or Panphobia is also a great issue in the community! There should be a episode of this! Please!! Greetings from Germany!
As a cis woman this whole series is really interesting and i'm glad to know more about what other kinds of people are going through. I hope everyone in the LGBTQ+ community can find happiness and acceptance within themselves and society
When I work out I'm actually not aiming what they do in this vid at all. I just work out for health reasons, because I'm feeling better and because I like myself when I'm in shape.
I guarantee for every one femme shaming, there are five fat shaming. an issue not even brought up on a piece body issues. makes it seem like a self-promotion vid.
They do. There is a young guy I work with, straight, but he performs dance and has a slightly feminine voice. He has a long term girlfriend. I was even abit suspicious and thought he was "undecided", we talked at length and I can honestly say, when he assured me he was straight, I believe him. The other men we work with, ridicule and pick on him all the time, I stand up for hm when I'm there, but thats not often. Now they know I'm gay, I'm somewhat straight acting, very cheerful, so I get along with everyone and I'm pretty non offensive. They don't give me even a hint of trouble, infact, they piss about flirting and making dirty jokes in my direction *and* talk to me like a regular person, about just about anything, but this guy, they just don't like him, even though he too is non-offensive, friendly, a really genuine dude. But they just wont leave him alone. As a result, he refuses to talk about any activity that might make him seem less "manly" and thereby invite abuse. I can see he actually tries to butch up his behaviour and I see it's hard on him and it makes him unhappy (we've all been there, right, fellow gays? we know what it looks like) The thing is, I'm seeing it more and more amongst men in general. They have no problem with gay men, but effeminate men, gay or straight. Thats something else.
Riyadh is not fat, short, black, ugly. So has the factors to be successful with men. I don't think necessary to make the photo shoot, It seemed to feed up his ego. it was an interesting material though
Riyadh is a fantastic host ... excellent series with total honesty .. btw, they call them "gym bunnies" .... I lived in SF and hated to even walk in the Castro area
Am gay but I HATE the “community” ... it’s not a community it’s a playground for people to box everyone off and label people. I feel far more comfortable away from it all. Why let negativity rule your thoughts. The “community” should be ashamed.
Language is such a powerful and brutal concept. Europeans are so obsessed with giving a name and concept to everything, and it seems like the gay community while trying to empower itself by giving everything a title, its partially backfired, and turned into a source of bullying for both inside the gay community and in the straight community also.
Things need names. Perhaps people don't, but the fact that everything, and I mean everything, has a hash tag these days and thereby an idea associated with it, defining how it should be percieved, the whole "labels are bad" thing has long since become a battle lost.
Akbbba 1 There is nothing wrong with descriptive claims of what is. It is when people start to draw normative conclusions from those "is" claims when bad things can happen. Example Descriptive claim of what is- that person is a feminine male Normative claim of what ought - that person ought to act more masculine Names and categories on their own are not bad things. Categorizing things in our brains is one of the reason we survived. It's when people start to draw what ought to be out of the is - is when issues can arise. Which is why people have to be carful with normative claims.
I come from an Eastern European country that has a shortage of gay/sex/psychological terminology and it sucks. People who can't easily communicate what they're into are less self-aware and confused. Words don't limit us - they help us accept things, actually. The things that can't be named seem mysterious and dangerous, which breeds distrust and prejudice as a defensive mechanism. Thats my take, anyway.
I’m from Turkey -which is like mix up of western and eastern culture-. LGBT community has names as it is in Britain. I guess it naturally developes to determine the tribes that you are attracted easier. On the other side, the urge to be belonged force you to be similar with the other members of the tribe. Which brings this disaster to the members of the community.
Everyone suffers from insecurities but we have to find a way to overcome these insecurities aaaaaand just love ourselves. That’s what is truly attractive ❤️
Straight acting = soft masculine because straight have rarely feminine male. Queer= feminine gay male Some gay men are effeminate Just gay question a lot of mannerisms and not straight Beauty is in the eye of lovers. In Lgbt , the sex is more important than love. Because we have labels like bears, twink,Top, bottom. Homosexuality is a sexuality and romantic attraction and it is not a mannerisms. I love some type of masculine men. This Is my preference, I m easily attracted by some men. But I can love feminine men but is more complicated , I put easily effeminate guy in friend zone .
Ofcourse No One should be bullied etc but how can you be mad at the gay community when gay means men are attracted to men. If i wanted to be with someone effeminate , I would be with a woman. I know it's not a popular thing to say but if you're gay - you're attracted to masculinity. (Bisexuals can possibly find effeminate men attractive.) I feel sometimes effeminate men make themselves very flamboyant-ly effeminate and then complain why men won't sleep with them ... because they are gay !
we as gays wanted acceptance from the straight community but we haven't really accepted each other differences within our own community. Double standard i might say.
In hindsight, as a teenager, I can def say that pornography has played a big part towards my views of whats considered beautiful and attractive. Racially and physically.
Please STOP using the word "(gay) community"! I am gay, but I am not part of any community! I see no reason whatsoever to have mostly gay friends, go to gay clubs / bars /saunas / shops, dress or talk differently based on my sexuality or even like people more because they are gay. I am sure there are many guys like me out there. Please stop creating gay stereotypes and making people think that all or even most gay people live in some community!
I think this really shows how we fixate on small parts of our body that we don't like where as others can see is as a whole and wouldn't in a million years notice the tiny things that really bother us ❤
Sorry, I did not get it. Narrow masculine body standard is (rightfully) criticised, and the presenter himself gets gym trained in order to "fix"his body for the photo shoot? (as if what we are, our identities, is a fixated still 2-dimensional picture)...Maybe I missed something, but I had the impression at the end of the day, he is just compliant to the stereotypical body ideal?
He already fits the mold. It's not even about being extremely muscular it's about just don't be FAT or CHUB or (god-forbid) those things AND a POC. It's not for nothing he's presenting this series and was asked to be nude. Would they have done that for someone else who wasn't slim?
Although had its moments, this episode in particular lacks genuine depth. In fact this whole series has so far just been a platform to indulge a youtuber's fantasy of being a presenter - it was not at all journalistic or exploratory in any real way. Why did we have to see him with his healthy eating plan and exercising? I understand its a short documentary but its just utter fluff and time-filling. Why didn't he just do the photoshoot as he was? Why can't we see a proper documentary, with proper enthusiasm to understand the issue at hand? If you want to see something better, I suggest Jack Rooke's Happy Man series on BBC. His exploration on body image/confidence (ep. 3) was miles better albeit that it was a more holistic documentary rather than centred on the gay community in the episode I'm thinking of. The shame, the feelings of being unworthy that are at the heart of the gay community's shallowness? The need to reject others so they themselves can be worshipped in the community? Why were these not explored as some have already mentioned in that comments. There are wholesome, less shallow and loving LGBT people out there - but they're not on the scene because they know better than to let themselves go through that and its so lonely for a great many of us. Why did Riyadh not get to the heart of the problem? Because he simply doesn't care enough. This series is just self-promotion for him and it frustrates me that things aren't done properly. Riyadh of course seems friendly and amiable but honestly a little more thought into the topic was needed - you can still be serious and entertaining! He said he didn't understand why gay people aren't the most accepting bunch when he couldn't even give him himself the tiniest of breaks and just do that silly photo-shoot as he was. Who else is with me here? This really did leave me upset. I'm sorry to be ranting and all over the place here but it really gets me angry that yet again we have a half-arsed and vapid documentary.
Each time we focus in on and magnify a particular facet about ourselves we push away all of the other things that make us whole and beautiful. You are more than just your parts. ❤️💛💚💙💜
Tbh I’m a masc gay man and I love femme gay men. There are the most attractive thing to me. The problem is other gay men assume I’m only into masc men.
Are they ever going to ever discuss the "it's not racist, it's a preference" "you can't help who you're attracted to" bullshit going on currently. Like he said, we think we think we are going to come together and fight off homophobes. I mean, how can you exclude a whole race of people because they don't appeal to you, and expect it to make sense to anyone. Imagine if you're in the other person's shoes. How can we be so closed -minded and expect the society in general to be open- minded. You've closed your mind and Self up to dating or finding a particular race or person attractive but you want to be accepted. Why limit yourself, be open minded, and see how happier your life will be. Many opportunities for love and fulfillment are opened up for you, but close yourself up and stay wanting "relationship goals" with the same "type", when the "relationship goals" could be found in another "type"
People really don't want to ask themselves why they are turned off by a skin color. Not the personality, but a skin color. Why would a skin color be such a determining factor?
This makes me sad...we are our own worst enemies. We separate ourselves from each other and the only connection we have is through role-played sex: top/bottom, masc/fem, "straight acting" (WTF?). This is not only Britain - I live in Canada and it's the same. If you're not 22, tall, blonde, built and hung, you're nothing. I'm 56 and poz and skinny and thereby "dead" in the gay world.
Evolution has encouraged us to develop into 'people' who present a dignified, forward-moving, better example of humanity. Things have changed so much over VERY recent years; social mores have been discarded and have been replaced by an arrogance that makes us believe that whatever we put out there, for our own benefit alone, HAS to be accepted and applauded. As a gay person with all the instincts and insecurities that the majority of people have, I understand that feeling of depression. We are - sadly - after hundreds of years of moving forward - going backwards.
Making this video and creating awareness about body shaming in the gay community won't change anything in the gay community. Well, it is what is. Accept this reality and focus your energy on other non-physical attributes of yourselves such as inner beauty, kindness and love.
Tuks Tee tbh, it's a man's world. even in the lgbt community. why do you there's so many gay apps but no lesbian. I agree females/lesbians should get more recognition, idk why they don't.
I'd like to know what specifically stops female developers from making lesbian dating/hookup/etc apps then. (Not discourages, disincentives, setbacks, endangers, etc - but stops.) However, you're wrong - on quick search, there's multiple lesbian and bisexual-female exclusive apps. But women are not using them, apparently. Tinder, perhaps? Dating sites, perhaps? Or focusing more on meeting in person - less appeal found in just 'hooking up' only for a pattern of only-sex anon encounters, the fuel of gay male apps, perhaps? Is it only a 'man's world', or is it just that women are meeting up more in the 'real' world society anyway, and men feeling some need to be more 'secret/separate' in a virtual app to get their desires satisfied?
MUCH YES. It is not covered how misogynistic male gay community can be. Maybe not more misogynistic than society already is, but enough for lesbians not being very widely represented in a BBC documentary ( or at least not so far). Hopefully they will do cover this issues in a later episode, cause anyway this is only the second episode so I might be horribly wrong :P
If you think it's bad for femme men try actually being a woman. (Yes I understand they are slightly different issues but I believe they are comparable) All this stems from a wider problem with misogyny in society as a whole and the ingrained idea that the slightest brush with femininity is the worst thing you could possibly be and is automatically equated with weakness, and until this is addressed at the root of the problem it's never going to get any better within the gay (or any other) community I fear. However every episode like this is bringing that change closer and helping people accept each other however they choose to express themselves. So thanks!
I'd also like to believe that there is hope. To all the struggling women out there fighting misognystic people I just want to say that y'all are the strongest! Women is future! 💪♥️💖
So you think being a woman is harder than being a femme man? I can't even take you seriously. There are countries where people are sentenced to death for being gay but you somehow think women have it harder? You're a joke. The femme guy says in this video that he was bullied out of school for being femme, when has a woman in modern day Britain been bullied out of school just for being female?
That's not at all what I'm saying! It's just that as a woman, a man saying they are oppressed simply for acting like a woman made me think of all the ways actual women are also oppressed, and I made the (yes I'll admit tenuous) link as all this type of oppression stems from ingrained misogyny in society. I admit they are differing problems though. Also you think there aren't places in the world where a woman won't be stoned to death for putting a single foot out of line??or maybe just for being infertile? Or where female babies are killed upon birth because males are preferred? Or where women are hidden away in a hut for the duration of their period? Or have their genitalia mutilated because a man wants to know their 'pure'. Now there's no point in arguing who has it worse because we both have a shit time. But if you wouldn't mind not trying (and failing) to tear me down for stating my opinion which is harming nobody, and looking at the bigger picture, maybe we could get somewhere.
Personally where I would draw the comparison between the gay men community and women is that where there should be acceptance in the face of oppression, there are big divisions. Women are constantly picking at eachother's appearance, at the way other women choose to present themselves. If you don't dress feminine enough, you don't fit the mainstream image of a woman. If you are too feminine, you're vain. And it seems from the documentary that gay men do the same thing among eachother; the way I see it, it's more because even if as a woman or as a gay man, even though you are a part of a community, what everyone really wants to achieve is to fit in with the majority. And the opinion of the majority is led by straight white cis males' vision of the world. You can be a woman but you can only look a certain way. You can be gay but only in this format. And the same goes for every minority and the source of tensions within them. That's why you have people saying "fem gay guys give gays a bad rep" a bad rep towards whom? The majority, because fem gay guys don't fit the majority's standards for what masculinity is.
There are places those things you mentioned happen especially in Asia, Africa and the Middle East but in most of those countries, gays have it worse than women. Some of those countries even have a death sentence for gay people. I do not know ONE country where you get the death sentence for being a woman; not even in the most sexist countries in the world. In terms of genital mutilation, I'm just surprised that you failed to mention that it happens more to boys than it does to girls. Even in many developed countries, boys are still circumcised before they're old enough to consent to it. Female genital mutilation happens way less often than male circumcision. I do understand that there are more risks associated with FGM than with male circumcision but that still doesn't make it right to circumcise boys without their consent in the same countries where it's illegal to do the same to girls. I also do not agree that misogyny is the reason effeminate men are discriminated against. By your logic, women who are masculine (mostly butch lesbians) should have the easiest time because they're masculine. That's usually not the case. In fact, society treats them like crap and many are forced to act more feminine against their will. Society generally has a problem with anyone (regardless of their gender), who steps out of the norm. Discrimination isn't unique to effeminate gay men, butch women are also discriminated.
Am all for Gay rights and wanting acceptance and not judgement from straight people but I find that the Gay (LGBT community) is more judgemental of each other. Fighting for acceptance from the straight people when criticizing your own community. Is that not a bit hypocritical?
"Looking great" is not what we really want from a partner, so please just stop feeding this conversation about the looks. Also, sexiness is way more about personality and charisma than appearance. Actually, who focuses too much on their looks, usually lacks on personality, big time. So, please, let's stop the "omg he's hot" chat and let's start talking about how sweet, intriguing and interesting someone is! 😉
