The Second Victoria Line 

"We were forced to close Victoria Station because so many people wanted to use it" - any standard British bureaucrat.

Jago is a veritable Wikipedia of long forgotten studies, reports and enquiries into London planes, trains and automobiles.

Missed opportunity to say: "You're the Victoria Line to my Victoria Line" 😀

VicTWOria

"...take the heat off the Victoria Line.." now that's a good idea

Victoria Line 2: Electric Boogaloo

Aside from the very real issues discussed in this video, the Victoria line has to be one of London's most successful infrastructure projects ever built. High speeds, a huge number of cross platform interchanges, full automation, great reliability, and a bigger loading gauge than all other deep tube lines. It took until about 2010 for some of those benefits to be realised, but the end result today is seriously impressive.

For many years they ran "shorts" to cover the crowded section between Victoria and Kings X/Seven Sisters until the whole line became overcrowded and tipping-out was causing too many delays. Problem was,the ROUTE of the Vic was just too well-designed...right down to the quick'n'easy cross-platform interchanges....

I've said it before in comment sections of your videos but, please, never quit making these. They remind me of the time my wife and I spent in London using the tube and loving every minute of it. She passed away, it'll be 3 years Dec 1 of this year and your videos give me some comfort in remembering her.

Ha, I just got off the Victoria Line and saw this.

The history of the post war tube is basically "do we have to run a railway? Fine but we're going to complain and drag our feet to avoid building more"

Building a tube line like it's 1899, it was never going to work well in 1968.

The fact that the Victoria line was built on the cheap but is still so useful and well designed deserves another video. How they designed the upgrade of stations to incorporate the cross platform interchanges with the Northern and Bakerloo on a low budget is something I'd particularly like to see more detail on.

Oh the British disease: penny-pinch to build something barely adequate & then spend twice as much to increase capacity by 25% (see M1, M3 & M25 etc) DLR

All those who worked on building the Victoria Line should be massively proud of what they did. The BBC have a 'free' documentary about how the Victoria Line was built; and how Oxford Circus was closed for just 65 hours for a steel road 'umbrella' to be put in so all the traffic could re-start on the Monday whilst navvies dug out the new station.. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-GwRRSJ_wtIg.html The films shows the skilled and dangerous work that had to be done. Like the narration says: "They earn a lot of money! And they sweated their skill for every penny of it!" This would all be impossible today, every single thing the workers did could result in a lost finger, hand, or life. That's what the 'Good Old Days' were; when Britain did everything on the cheap, but there was skilled labour ("Almost all from Ireland") who were willing to work 16 hour shifts for double time.. "Think of them when, you yourself, are riding in comfort through the shotgun tunnel of the new Tube."

From 1979 through the late 1990s, I flew into Gatwick and needed to get to Bedford. The best way to do it was to take the Gatwick Express to Victoria and then the Victoria line to St. Pancras. Back then, long before Eurostar, it was an old station serving trains from London to the Midlands. Going inside, I can hardly recognize the interior today. I had no idea that the Victoria Line was relatively new/old, as it seemed to look as old as any other line. It was a good hike from the Tube station for "Kings Cross St Pancras" to get to St. Pancras. BTW, in the early days, I could never understand how they pronounced "St. Pancras") The day I flew in, I would hop the Victoria line with my bags to St. Pancras and check my bags (at least before the bombings in London did away with bag checking). Then, I would tour London and catch a matinee show. Then, I would return to St Pancras and take the train to Bedford. Going back home, I would often stay at the Grosvenor Hotel over the station the day before I left so I could drop my bags, see London that day, and catch a train in the morning to the Airport in time to make my plane. Then, in 1997, Thameslink came along with a train that went from Gatwick to Bedford; it was simpler but not as much fun. I found it strange that before 1997 no "trains" traveled across London. I asked how they did Thameslink and was said that they opened back up a very old tunnel.

I’ve never been to the UK, I’ve never even ridden on a train whatsoever and yet I find these videos continually fascinating. I’ve watched every video on here since 2020.

I recall as a child circa 1967 living at 515 Seven Sisters Road and feeling the vibration of tunnelling activities below us for some weeks. Our terrace had poor foundations to the point that the entire terrace leans forward and was structurally condemned in 1933, but WW2 put paid to demolishing still-standing buildings and amazingly, 90 years later and a tube tunnel later, it's still standing. I recall going on one of the first services through the tunnel and noticed even though quite young, how clean and fresh the air smelled. Not quite the same aroma now!

I'm amazed where you get all your info from - you are one hell of a researcher. My hat is off !

These days, virtually all trains start from Brixton and some trains only terminate at Seven Sisters instead of running through to Walthamstow because of the depot at Northumberland Park.. Originally, however, extensive use was made of the reversing sidings at King's Cross St Pancras, and after the Brixton extension opened, at Victoria, resulting in numerous short workings. Today, both these reversing facilities are seldom used.

Hello Jago, As I watched this video I thought of the “City Widened Lines” from 1866 in which the tracks of the Metropolitan Railway were widened from two tracks to four between Kings Cross and Moorgate Street. Best wishes from Oxfordshire.

Very informative video as always. What annoys me about this situation is that the Victoria run is running beyond capacity, yet at Walthamstow, Blackhorse Road, Tottenham Hale and Seven Sisters you'll find massive tower block residential developments that will encourage thousands more onto an already saturated service, and I'm sure there will be examples of this elsewhere along the line. There seems to be no joined up thinking when it comes to housing and public transport provision... 😑

There were problems on the Victoria Line this morning which oddly, made me appreciate how good it usually is. I whinge if I have to wait more than two minutes.

3:14 I remember in ‘Going Underground’ about how Victoria Line stations were claustrophobic and windy.

Oh, I wld love a light green line

Imagine if they started building Victoria Lines in the 60s and just never stopped. London's whole tube network would be efficient and modern, meanwhile other UK cities could have proper metros too...

Maybe the crowding at Walthamstow has a lot to do with people disembarking for onward travel to less well served areas. An extension to Whipp’s Cross could help to alleviate that. Yeah I know, too expensive etc.

There is an amazing film on RU-vid titled "BBC: How They Dug the Victoria Line." I hope to see some clips of it on this fantastic channel.

2:28 : The door with the sticker blocking the Victoria roundel while talking about the station being closed during rush hour.. Bloody brilliant, if you ask me!

Had it been done, then perhaps the Victoria and Albert lines ???

They canned the idea of a spur line leaving/joining it a Seven Sisters and taking/running over the line (which is now overground) to Enfield.

Another +brilliant documentary - thank you once again. Historical note on re-routing stations at 04:05 - see ANGEL on the Northern Line in the very late 1980s (getting rid of the SERIOUSLY uncomfortable single platform between BOTH running Lines! It is also well-known that the narrow platforms on the Vic Line result from "on the cheap" or a civil servant getting his sums wrong! back in the planning days...

Am I the only who is fixated on Jago's 'you are the X to my Y' outros where he thanks his sugar mommies and daddies? I thought for sure I had the right guess in this video, but again I was wrong...😢 One day though, one day.

Interesting. One notable feature of the Victoria line is the number of cross-platform interchanges - with Piccadilly at Finsbury Pk, GN & City at Highbury & Islington, Northern (Bank) at Euston, Bakerloo at Oxford Circus and Northern (again) at Stockwell. These must have an effect on usage figures - e.g. the quickest way to get from Charing X to Kings X is Bakerloo and Victoria, changing quickly at Oxford Circus. Actually the Underground already had quite a tradition of X-Platform Interchange, going back to when the Bakerloo (as it was then) was extended in parallel with the Met, and the Piccadilly in parallel to the District, and then subsequently with the Central line eastern extension - at Mile End with the Met & District, and Stratford with the GE Electric lines (now Elizabeth line). I have to say that if these projects had been done by the current TfL management or Elizabeth line designers, we would probably have ended up with few or no X-Platform interchanges - and they would have called it 'For the convenience of Passengers'!

Crossrail 2 would be like the Victoria Line and Northern Line with extension from Wimbledon to Chessington South, Shepperton, Epsom and Hampton Court and extension to New Barnet and to Hertford East, Harlow Town & Stansted Airport.

Thanks Jago, a summary of British Transport policies dating back to the victorian era (and possibly earlier with te canals);

I think the only reason why the Victoria Line is still able to run is because of how frequent the service is now. Though that frequency is causing massive overcrowding at other intermediate stations, such as Seven Sisters on the London Overground platforms. Constantly pumping out passengers. Bit of a nightmare to be honest!

The Victoria line is very well designed despite its low budget. It covers good distance between *most* stations (except maybe Tottenham Hale - Seven Sisters and King's Cross - Euston - Warren Street), in rush hour a new train pulls in literally 30 seconds after the first one leaves, every single station except Pimlico has either a connection to another line, an Overground connection, or a National Rail connection, there is a slight uphill ramp into most stations to allow the train to slow down naturally, and a ramp down when leaving to allow it to speed up easier and lastly, keen observers will notice that the two lines do not actually run parallel, but cross each other at various points (notice the doors opening on different sides depending on stations), this I believe is done so that at certain stations the most obvious change over is directly in front of you when leaving the train (Euston to Northern Line), which is very well planned.

😮I used the Victoria Line daily between Warren St. and Victoria for 28 years and wholeheartedly agree with you. At the very least the platforms at Victoria should have been double width combined with 5 escalators and double sized circulating areas. Nobody seemed to have foreseen that Victoria was actually an international station as well as a major commuter station by virtue of its direct connection to the UK's second largest airport , Gatwick. It's a wonder that there were no major pile ups of passengers on the crowded escalators with international travellers fiddling around with luggage while commuters piled up behind them off the escalator.

I don't know about now, but in the late 80's early 90's, on Sundays, trains from Brixton often terminated at King's Cross. Maybe this was an experiment.

"You are the depot to my Brixton" should be on Valentines day cards

Wasn't the Victoria line supposed to terminate in Croydon, where Queen's gardens are, but no money? I can't decide if that would've been good or not.

With a modest increase in the size of Northumberland Park depot, the first trains of the day could head via the Victoria Line 1 to a junction with Line 2 at King's Cross and return later. The additional trains needed would only be enough required to cover the King's Cross-Victoria section. Another possibility would be like the previous arrangements on the Glasgow Subway, where trains stayed on the line overnight (a necessity at that time)

so... I'm hearing "build Crossrail 2". which is obviously the way forward, yes. As in Build the *full* HS2. And the Pic-Vic tunnel. And HS3. and so on. A rolling program of major projects, always a few in planning, always one or two using TBMs, always one being outfitted, always one in testing. Same as should be done for electrification, really.

This is exactly how we got line 14 in Paris : RER A (opened in 1977) was overcrowded so we just decided to build a new automated subway next to it, although it follows a slightly different route. Now it has been extended at both ends line 14 is to become the most patronized line in the network, so with the benefit of hindsight that was a great idea.

Lets put the to the signals to red here for a minute. Isnt this plan what the have effectively planned for the division of the Northern Line once the "Camden Issue" has been dealt with, just splitting the thing via the branches. Id argue that the best way to deal with the congestion on the Victoria line is as you say the Cross Rail 2 project but looking at how long the Purp/Liz Line took, would it also not be prudent to expand Victoria Line platforms and extend stations at both Northern and Southern ends to deal with numbers, one could also argue that extending the Victoria Line south from Brixton as part of this plan could also help, with interchanges at Loughborough Junction, Herne Hill, West Dulwich, Crystal Palace and Norwood Junction. One could also imagine a case then being put forward for the trams being extended upto Norwood Junction and Crystal Palace for better interchange with the Underground and the Overground. But then again I would also advocate in the long term for the DLR to extend beyond Lewisham and link in with the Trams as well as the Bakerloo taking over the Hayes branch via Catford bridge and Beckenham.

I first used the Victoria line shortly after opening in 1968, when it was shiny new and a very slick act. How did we ever live without it?

Penny wise pound foolish. It happens here in the USA as well.

I think this actually would’ve made the problem worse. In order to get to North London from South London, you would have to change at Victoria or King’s Cross. This would only add more pressure on already overcrowded stations.

A second line between Kings Cross and Victoria would be nice but what's really needed in my opinion is Kings Cross and Liverpool Street to Waterloo.

Fascinating. It's great how you dig up this material for us, Jago.

I seem to remember that following the opening of the Victoria Line, going to see an exhibition complete with a temporary cinema showing a film about the construction at St.James's Station, London Transport's headquarters. Was this the film people refer to being shown latterly by the BBC?

Two branches through Central London? Sounds like a Nor-toria line to me!

Why not extend it to Woodford so you can exchange with the central line for local journeys

Another fascinating video. Thank you!

Apparently, way back in the early 1960s, the crucial factor leading to the Victoria Line getting the nod from central government was not the perceived need of London commuters, but giving support to the depressed iron and steel industry of the north of England.

I mean, these tiny trains in narrow tunnels... what were they thinking in the 20the century?

Brilliant as always!

Thank you for a great informative video sir!

Shutting the gates to tube stations is very common to prevent platform overcrowding. Hindsight always has the right answers, foresight often the wrong ones.

Finsbury Park is effected worse then Walthamstow Central in my experience. I can't speak for Victoria, I never went that far, but I used to use the line every day from Walthamstow to Finsbury and Finsbury was by far the worst for overcrowding issue (Amplified to a ridicuously degree on match days).

Friday JAGO viewing ❤

Building the Victoria Line on the cheap was an expensive mistake. We need to ban construction of new deep level tube lines and require that any new lines come up to the Crossrail standard. Eventually, all the existing tube lines will need to be upgraded to take full-size trains. This will not be an easy thing to do. But it is the only way to make the Underground work for the next century. In the meantime, we should probably be focusing on building networks like London Underground and London Overground in the various other cities in the UK.

Oh huh, they basically wanted to retrofit express tracks...but not enough of them for throughrunning to be possible, forcing a weird split defeating the purpose. Interesting! I suppose Crossrail 2 is the nicer version of that whole idea that doesn't overcompromise like that!

A bit like how the Northern Line is split in the centre of London.

When I lived in Walthamstow, local historians told us that it was meant to terminate at Wood Street but was scaled back due to cuts.

1:04 OH MY JAGO😱 thought I clicked on Second Avenue Line video, let me sink through this video first... 🚂 :3

What about extension of the Victoria Line from Brxton to Croydon?

Interesting video - I used to commute into Victoria station in the mid 2000s and the tube station was being rebuilt then - I think that took 15 years in the end - imagine how long it would take to build a new line there!

New trains on the Piccadilly line might make it quicker and mean less changes over to the victoria line at finsbury park

I remember reading about this at the time and it was refered to as the Albert line

Much appreciated, as always Mr.H 👍 Did anyone else listening to the first half of this tale from the tube have the theme tune to 'Soap'* running around their head? * Too young? Google search is your friend!

Huh, that A and B line sounds a bit like the changes that are currently being made to the Stockholm metro (to be completed around 2030), where the Blue line is going to duplicate a section of the Green line, and take over one of the three Green line lines.

For passengers, the Victoria line is hot, noisy, overcrowded and generally unpleasant. But I admit it's normally very quick & efficient, with trains every 90 seconds or so. But I travel from my home in SE London to NE London several times a month, and I now do my best to avoid it, even if my journey - which then usually involves Thameslink and/or Overground - takes a bit longer. If we can't afford Crossrail 2, let's at least have air-conditioned and sound-proofed trains.

ভিক্টোরিয়া লাইন (Victoria Line in Bengali)

Love the victoria line

I think the solution to over crowding is to raise ticket prices to match capacity . BRILLIANT ! I have always matched my use to slow periods of the day because I like trains but H..... the others , passengers that is , so what's the difference ? I actually ended up earning more money that way but that is another story . It's called adaptation . Anyways I used the Victoria line allot at times and wonder how people lived without it . But they did .

Jago, central city terminal stations are the great inefficiency of rail networks. National and city governments must work together to link up city terminal stations underground and cut Tube demand and tube trains by a third. Outer metropolitan and rural areas are the place to depot and turn around intercity trains, after they have passed through the city. In doing this, the islands of Great Britain and Ireland need rail grids that cover the islands with the spacing of the grid lines determined by population density. The grid lines should string together cities and towns and run automated at high frequency so people can get door-to-door quickly with little waiting. People hate interchange, but interchange is efficient and delivers faster door-to-door for most people.

No surprise, this B A-nother educational video, jago.

Capacity seems to be an increasing problem..A network of railways and tubes , built mostly in the early 1900s is not going to cut it in the 2020s and beyond..But is there space for more up to date railways in our crowded city?

So wish they had built this. Would end having having to change at Green Park to get to everywhere i usually go.

My memory from the time (probably unreliable, but possibly not...) is that the original plan for the line was that it terminated at Victoria. So there was no intention to serve south London in the original planning (south of the river wasn't really seen as part of London in those days). But then there was a lot of political pressure to extend the line to Brixton, so a southern extension was added. But (again from my memories of the time) there was never any intention to have an intermediate station. Pimlico was added as an afterthought (again after much lobbying). We couldn't understand this at the time - why Pimlico? But the consensus of opinion was that a lot of rich people lived there (including Tony Benn's family) and money talked loudly. There was also the fact that the new station gave easier access to the Tate. So much for cost benefit analysis - is there any other station on the Underground who's justification was to give easier access to an art gallery?!

During construction there was a problem in Blackhorse Road. Blackhorse Road, in the bottom of the Lea (or Lee) valley kept wanting to visit the tube workings underneath. That was the reason given out locally for the late opening.

The victoria line is so efficient and reliable that literally everyone who needs to get from north east to central/south (and vice versa) floods it. In rush hour it is most definitely the worst for overcrowding.

The line is going to be extend for passengers to northumberland park on spurs match days. Waiting for stadium sponsorship

Wonderful ❤

What a great idea! Duplicate the Victoria Line, except make it run to different stations and call both parts "the Victoria Line". Not at all confusing for people who visit London, I mean no one has ever been thrown by the Northern Line.

With regards to matchday crowds at Finsbury Park and Highbury & Islington, would it be possible to build a Victoria Line station between the two at Arsenal? I think the line runs almost adjacent to the Piccadilly Line at that point.

I just want to hear, see you again soon for another taaale from the tuuube! I mean it snuck in there but I beg of thee o lord Jago!

I do like these tales of UK rail/metros futures past...

One often suggested plan to improve the through put of trains on the Victoria line is a loop south of Brixton to Herne Hill which would enable to trains to turn around without reversing. It would also mean Herne Hill would be a much more important interchange. Excuse to use any footage of Herne Hill station i think...

What a great video

I frequently use the Victoria Line between Oxford Circus and Victoria and I have to say, when it comes to the Northbound platform at Victoria, it is way to narrow. Even off peak it fills up quite quickly. Even though often the headway between trains is less than two minutes.

I love the interchanges with the Northern Line, makes the Victoria Line my line of choice, to that part of London. However, as a suggestion, how about the two really rather sensible extension proposals. One at the south, one stop, to Herne Hill, for the British Railways station, and the other, which is far more likely, using the depot for a new station to serve a football stadium there, at Northumberland Park

Lovely video. I don't buy the Northumberland Park depot issue. The lines would be conceptually distinct but connected at Victoria and Kings Cross, wouldn't they?

Fascinating 😊

Possibly the 'Mona Lisa' of Minimalist Linear Cartography?

Of course, any expansion to the Victoria Line stumbled on two massive barriers: (1) There was not until the turn of the millennium any money for new lines or renovaton/expansion of stations became available and (2) the Victoria Line was TOO successful and anything that attracted new passengers would be considered to be 'missing the point'. That's why the Ilford and Crystal Palace extensions are sitting in the bottom of the 'No' drawer at 55 Broadway.

Aw, I was expecting "you are the line A to my line B"

However Crossrail 2 was a whole consultation account.