Sup guys. Just wanted to add that a lot of people also pointed out that Modern is very useful for accessibility reasons, and has helped many disabled gamers play the game, which is obviously another big positive case for it.
The best thing about b0bbybasketball1999 is that he used a 0 instead of an o which implies bobbybasketball1999 already existed before Broski made the joke.
Due to cancer, I've had many surgeries, to the point where its affected my hands and my dexterity with them. Modern controls has allowed me to enjoy a character outside a Charged based toons, for the first time in 15 years. If anything, Modern controls let me enjoy a fighting game like I used too when I was standing in a Arcade back in the day.
@@WormyJester8 Its an old term, cartoons got turned into toons, which implies a character picked. "oh I like this toon, I'll play him" I'm old af ok? lol
@@Tinytraveler I have played SF for a long time, been a member of srk forums when that was a thing and I never heard people in the FGC call characters "toons", that's why I was asking
_b0bbybasketball1999 on his death bed_ "Shh, quiet everyone. Dad is asking me to lean over to hear his last words." "..." "Well, what did he say?" "He said, 'worth it.'"
To add on to your point about Modern giving you bad habits: I've found that lot of modern players in ranked easily take the bait from a fakeout jump/safejump because they're so used to being able to anti-air on reaction with one button. I've won a lot of matches by faking them out with a shallow divekick, a safejump, or a hooligan cancel (I play Cammy) and basically killing them for whiffing an anti-air. It's great that more people get to play the game with it, but I def see what you mean with that last point/
People asking for a Modern filter don't realize that the rage quitter filter is already doing that job... Most Modern players I encounter rage quit once their gimmicks get figured out. It happens like, 7 out of 10 times, really... Like, dude, Cammy's auto-light is not a real blockstring... stop mashing it to fish for confirms. You're just getting blown up over and over again...
@@LuigiG145 Conditioning is really effective against modern IMO speaking as a competitive modern player myself. Whether it’s baiting with a fake jump or doing everything BUT drive impact so when it finally comes I’m not even ready to one-button react, it’s an effective way to shut autopilot shenanigans down.
M-⬇️↘️➡️ X-Y-B C-⬇️↘️➡️ X-Y-B I did this and (Yes Modern can use manual inputs and I like my OG damage and not penalty damage) I see no Difference when I used both.
That's pretty in line with what Capcom wanted it to be actually. I very much recall when the game was about to release, Nakayama was always saying that he wanted to see dedicated modern players at all levels of play, so I think it's safe to say he succeeded.
Without modern, 2 of my friends would never get into this game and we would never have the most fun we had in street fighter 6. And they are still playing and one of them switched to Classic.
I’m a mortal kombat player and playing modern feels familiar, and it helps me learn the play style of this game, setups etc. without having to worry too much about my quarter circle combos at the same time Once I figure the game out better, I’ll switch to classic
I think a big factor with Modern controls that is often forgotten is having way less attacking buttons. Having 6 simultanious buttons to attack always was a huge hurdle in SF for beginners because in practically all other action games (that are not fighting games) you have one or two, at most three. Having six is a crazy concept for non-FGC people. Of course once you have experience, you'll learn their purpose and also the "best" buttons for each character (and which to mostly avoid), but new players don't have that vocabulary. It's a foreign language for them. Breaking it down to three makes it WAY more palpable. Funnily enough with all the extra buttons that are needed for Modern you'll end up with 7 needed buttons in the end instead of only 6 in classic. But if course, four of them have special functions with a clear purpose even for beginners.
In my opinion, you could honestly throw out some of those special buttons because they are basically pressing two buttons at once. I'm also not the biggest fan of auto combo and never really use it because it is more interesting to me to figure out combos myself, but that's all personal preference I guess. That way you could shrink down the pool to 4 buttons, or maybe 4 plus two shoulder buttons for DI and DP which makes more intuitive sense. The one thing I often see argued is that the 6 classic buttons have purpose, but no one explains what purpose they really have. Why is it such a problem to, for instance, put Heavy Kick and Heavy Punch on the same button? I'm mainly asking that because a 6 button layout does not really work on gamepads, which many more people have access to than fight sticks.
@@UltimateShingoFor me i use the Auto for a specific combo to do or Kick or Punch I wanna do because it’s literally locked to that and I don’t use Auto for the Weird Super art thing because I can do Manual inputs myself still and do more damage than Assist.
@@polkunusWhat if someone like me who Overuses modern but I hardly touch the “SP button” UNLESS the move was cut from Manual list and just do Manual input specials all the time (Because no damage Penalty).
I wish modern at least made you have to do one quarter circle for super. Because your opponent holding back then getting a instant super on defense is easily the worst thing about playing against modern
pro players has to KNOW that they are playing against a 1-button-super and make decisions over it. You cant try to surprise Modern Character with an EX move for faster it looks. But you can play knowing M-Guy is waiting for 1-button-super back to you. Its a different mind game.
@@Akathysia Why not? I’ve already played MK and Injustice and Soulcalibur (With it’s complicated inputs and lovely Setsuka hard to use) And Tekken and Budokai ect. But I guess I can say I just love how the Button layout is Similar to MK on Modern+Manual inputs is a bonus and for the appropriate damage on Specials and Super Arts. Now Zangief.... he the only Character on Classic that FEELS RIGHT for me using that and I set up my buttons good on Classic anyway like Modern.
@@Akathysia I hope me using both Controls ain’t too dramatic for ya cause this my one and Only Street fighter I give a dang about and actually long played it and just play it (Series X) and the old ones was a no for me.
I just do Manual inputs too much because I played MK or Injustice or Soulcalibur and that SP button does less damage so not worth the touch for me unless a move is cut from the Manual list.
modern feels bad to lose to and win against. IDK how that could possibly be fixed so leave it as is i guess? If it makes lesser skilled people happy and gives people with disabilities a way to play its a positive in some way, but I cant help but wish there was a separate queue for modern.
I'm someone who, apart from some excursions into basically unknown fighting games on the PS1, never played or really interacted with the genre at all. At best I could name *some* of the characters in SF and that's it. One of the main reasons was the learning cliff and the general impression that you get stomped hard by players that have been playing those games for many years, decades even at times. Street Fighter 6 did two things to draw me in: The World Tour which gives me a mode that feels like many games I played before while also introducing me to the toolkit you can expect; and the modern control scheme. It shouldn't be a surprise that I only have a controller and no fight stick (I wonder how expensive these are), so a 6 button layout doesn't even properly work...and I tried for a small bit because there is actually a quest in the World Tour that makes you win a fight in both control schemes. Now, neither is perfect, at least from my limited point of view: Both can lead to bad habits and I noticed that already. To combat this, I started practicing both the fast input (direction+special) and the "complicated" input that is closer to classic, to get a better feel for things - plus appearantly if you execute the longer input, your moves get the appropriate damage output which is a bonus. I have yet to play against players because the anxiety is strong with me (and being alone in the whole thing doesn't help, but that's a different issue), but I spend time practicing things, working on combo trials and whatnot to figure out which character suits me best. One thing I wonder though: If Modern is mainly a tool for beginners, how are you supposed to make the switch to Classic if so desired? And as a side question: What makes modern AKI so bad? I genuinely don't know and she's a very interesting character that I might want to try, but due to above only really have access to Modern.
Honestly all that Chun Li example demonstrated to me is that Modern enables _new_ versions of those play styles rather than introducing them in the first place Like the Ryus that just do junp heavy kick into sweep over and over and over that *will* get them wins until they meet someone that can anti-air, which might never happen. Or generally people who do the riskiest option at every single chance in hopes the opponent doesn't know how to deal with it, and those players do in fact make it to the top rank of games Frankly the only difference I can tell is that that Chun playstyle is much safer and looks a bit closer to how one might actually play the game, fireballs and anti airs Just seems pretty normal
I had the same thought. I’m not sure that Modern enables more that type of playstyle referenced with Chun. In fact, when it’s easier to do more inputs, like in Modern, you definitely see more special moves.
Those new means of playing are nice, but against the opponent its rather linear because it skews the options that you can force onto chun in this example.
100% good takes here. The most interesting criticism I’ve heard about Modern is how it formatively limits ALL characters to having a maximum of two charge moves only.
These are macros and should be banned in ranked and tournaments. At a minimum, players need to be given a filter so that those who play the game honestly can play with the same people, and not cheap ones with LV3 on one button and automatic hit/block confirms on auto combos.
It's a tough case because I can honestly see both sides of it. It's really helpful for newer players of course, that's what it's there for and very helpful for physically challenged players, which is really important and nice to have. But on the other hand I remember everyone in the community rightfully getting mad at that SF4 "Mike Ross V Cheater" video where the cheater was doing some stuff that you can kind of do in SF6 with modern controls if your reactions are on point. The counterplay is there obviously but I can understand people's frustrations fighting Modern users in high Diamond/Master who clearly know what they're doing and would rather curb their lack of reactions with a faster input.
@@Puntersnatchcan't really baited if delay dp still win vs most jump and crosscut(seriously tho zangief air or jump in basically dead can only do ground things that is not overhead) cause jump just gonna get aa and overhead is slow that modern can easily anti air it or better yet DI
@tilting_cat3344 baiting is not just jumping in and eating the dp lol. You have to be able to get close enough they dp but far enough they miss. Usually dive kicks. As a tip don't jump into gief modern or classic. You can jump over him as a cross up where lariat sucks behind him. But he's got a lot of moves to stop jumping in to him. Train forward jumping if you're trying to avoid spds. Also modern players have a mental stack too. Do enough on the ground and you can get the occasional jump in too. They aren't gods.
@Puntersnatch This depends on the character's kit - Juri dp won't lose to that as her dp is the best in the game in my opinion. If the juri player is decent, you'll never be able to jump freely. Some characters are just built better in some regards.
Knowing that your opponent can just twitch react their dp, negate the pressure of burn out, or simply have access to assisted combos discourages risk-reward playstyles. It's also unfortunate that modern players won't get the same level of praise when they win matches like Tokido did. Modern is a great idea, but I don't think that they should pit it with classic, especially in tournaments.
I really dont care about the strength of modern controls. Its the playstyles associated with them. I just never play against a modern player and think "damn this was a fun game". Its ALWAYS "damn im whooping this guys ass, and now all hes gonna do is turtle up and look for instant reactions" Every modern player diamond 3 and onwards is just playing the lamest they can. 0 respect
You hit all the main points. My one requested change is i do not feel Modern should get to choose to do full motions for full damage at their discretion. That benefit doesnt help people that want basic inputs, doesnt help the streamers needing quicker and easier onboarding, nor does it help people with physical accessibility issues. It mainly just helps more intermediate to advanced players optimize better. I'm fine with a motion still working in Modern if someone wants to experiment, but not to avoid the damage reduction. If someone plays Modern, it should be a full commitment to both the pros and cons, and this change wouldnt gatekeep anyone that actually needs Modern either. I cant think of any reason for capcom to have made Modern allowing full damage motion as they did unless it was hoping that older players would consider adopting Modern, with long term plans for the company to make a future spinoff or mainline title that goes Modern only.
I think you’re missing the main benefit: it allows modern players to learn classic without being thrown back to square one. If you look at the distribution of modern players, you see that it’s much higher at low ranks. The possible explanations for this (that I can think of are 1. Modern isn’t viable at high levels (this is obviously not the case) 2. Modern players get bored and stop playing before they get to higher ranks (this definitely happens, but isn’t enough to explain the disparity imo) and 3. Modern players transition to classic as they learn the game (I’m willing to bet this is the main reason). The only reason so many people switch from modern to classic is that you are encouraged to learn motion inputs in modern. If they took away motion controls, you’d have a lot of players stick with modern forever, and I’m willing to bet people would be even more mad about it. Also without full damage on half your specials modern would be significantly worse, when as it is it’s very well balanced Edit: The only thing I would change is that you should get the 80% scaling on specials when you do them in an auto combo
@Kazaam1996 yeah but they can still learn the classic motions under modern. I'm not saying to take those away. I'm saying they don't get the damage benefit. If it's truly to learn, then the damage shouldn't matter. If the incentive of damage is necessary for them to learn in the short term, then they can join classic and learn in real time. The majority of modern players are using it because they like using the simpler controls and they stick to them. If a person is already to the point of comfort of mixing in Classic inputs for damage purposes to optimize, then they are obviously at least capable of the motion execution so they can use full classic mode at any time to get the damage. Having this hybrid scenario just serves to benefit Modern users that already have the execution for classic. As far as your point about it potentially enticing Modern users to stick to Modern forever, I'm completely fine with that because that is what the majority of Modern players do anyway. Modern is here to stay and it isn't being seen as some transitional stepping stone to Classic. It's seen as an alternative permanent control method. I'm also not sure where your balance argument comes from in that last part of the comment. I'm only saying that specials and supers under Modern should always get the damage reduction regardless of how they are input. That doesn't change the current balance at all except for the execution-skilled players using full motions to optimize, and those skilled players are the ones that I don't feel Modern shouldn't cater to. I want Modern to be there for simplicity and accessibility, not for an execution-skilled player to pick and choose all for the trade of losing a few normals and special variants.
@@misterkeebler You say that the majority of modern players stay modern… what makes you think that? From everything I’ve seen, new players who pick up modern end up transitioning to classic. I guess I don’t have lots of hard evidence because I’m basing this on my own experience (as well as my friends) but I’m guessing neither do you so I guess we can both believe what we want. Also, I think it’s ridiculous to say that decreasing the damage on motion specials doesn’t change the balance. Even without forcing less damage, modern is still an overall weaker control scheme. If you did force less damage, it would be significantly weaker. If it is an “alternative, permanent control scheme” like you say, then it makes absolutely zero sense to severely handicap modern that way. According to you, either modern is it’s own control scheme that people need to stick with forever (I don’t think that makes much sense) or modern should only cater to low skill players and shouldn’t be considered by “execution-skilled players” (this is less ridiculous, but completely contradicts your earlier point that it’s a viable alternative control scheme). You cannot have both, because as new players learn how to play, they become more skilled. That’s how the game works (source: was a new player once)
@Kazaam1996 we can agree to disagree but I'm more speaking in context that many people praise Modern as a way to get newer players into street fighter because it removes the execution barrier. That aspect is something I like and appreciate. Having one button specials does make some conventional situations like anti airing carry less risk than traditional controls, and it really shifts the balance with burnout and drive impact, but I accept those tradeoffs for giving newer players or ones that need access some help. I'm just against having it mixed with full motion specials with standard damage because if you can actually do the motions, then I prefer a person not have the ability to pick and choose based on the situation. If you want this, then that's fine. But at that point it's not arguing that Modern is for accessibility. Access was achieved before that. Having the ability to do motions in Modern for full damage does not really incentivize people to eventually move to Classic. All that is left for Classic at that point is just some additional normals and special variants. The incentive to move would be higher if they were required to go Classic to get the damage. Without that aspect, then it becomes a matter of what did the Modern version of a character lose. Basically, if a person sees Modern as some form of -ism or Groove type of scenario, then they probably like things as it is, though I'd argue that's not an accessibility convo anymore. Me personally, I like seeing Modern for accessibility and dislike seeing it as a Groove or Ism because of how it slows down the pace of a match in ways that are not interesting to watch or play against at higher levels.
I know that it's popular to hate on modern controls, but it's legitimately the single most important thing that Street Fighter 6 ever implemented, shortly after World Tour mode. Go back in time to when Street Fighter 6 was brand new and check out the reviews. It's packed to the brim with "Oh shit, I can actually play and enjoy a fighting game". Fighting games have always struggled to get fresh blood injected into the genre, especially since as Broski said: "They paid $60 for a fighting game that they get less than 4 hours out of". Does it suck to get one-button DP'd and Supered on the ladder? Sure, a little bit, but you can play around that. It's a small price to pay for Street FIghter 6 to be the biggest fighting game of all time, pulling top numbers at EVO over younger fighting games that get patched more often. It's a small price to pay for the average gamer to be able to play REAL street fighter for the first time ever.
But does the guy just playing ranked at home actually care how many viewers thar game has? How many entrants evo has? I don’t see how it benefits that person or why they should care the game is popular
@@108Fire Think of it this way: Entrants at Evo are a barometer, a way to gauge interest in the game at a high level. If 1 in every 1000 players of a game decide to go take a shot at Evo and 6000 people show up, well you can do the math. Street Fighter 6 has easily the biggest following of any fighting game ever, and the majority of that comes down to having more casual appeal than any other fighting game that isn't a Mortal Kombat. Modern Controls helped them thread the needle between appealing to the casual fan base while still having competitive integrity and (reasonable) balance at the highest levels. The average player benefits by having a huge playerbase to test their skills against and far more potential to take the game away from their console and to a local event. It also significantly extends the game's lifespan, keeping it out of "discord fighter" territory for much longer than something whose playerbase stayed small. Games doing Street Fighter numbers also get more interest from developers in making more games in the genre. Not even 15 years ago the whole damn genre was about to go the way of the RTS, but now it's stronger than it's ever been.
@@kevingriffith6011 more people to play with sounds alright, but you would still have more than enough people to play with if the game was doing half as well.I dont think pushing the game to be as broadly appealing as possible is without consequence, namely in how the games are designed and interacted with
SF6 was my first fighting game I actually wanted to learn. I picked up modern because I just want to play and have fun at first, and classic just felt overwhelming at first. I spent a couple days winning and felt like I wasn’t actually earning it, so I dropped it and picked up the monumental task of learning classic. The lab gave me anxiety (idk why, but maybe it’s because I’m thinking too much about it) so I just learned in game while fighting other people (most of them being modern in bronze) I was hard stuck bronze and didn’t really know who I wanted to play either so I kept experimenting and watching RU-vid videos and putting in the effort to learn what my buttons do and when to use them etc. I struggled with combos and then eventually it all clicked and I kept grinding and now I’m in diamond 2 (climbing but ever so slowly). I feel as though modern is a trap and it shouldn’t be in the game, I know it’s easier to get into the game as a newbie, but it’s toxic for the people that really want to learn and engage with the game. There’s a lot of people trying to learn classic and are stuck in low ranks with people one button fireballing, dps, and supers and combos. It’s like you’re fighting a pro player (feels like it when you’re new) and you stand no chande
SF6 is the first fighting game I've gotten into. Honestly, I really hate playing against modern players. What you said about "anti-hype" is exactly it. Seeing a classic player counter something with a raw super is a crazy moment. Seeing the same from someone that just has to press 2 buttons feels cheap instead.
Something to maybe bridge the gap could be adding a tiny bit of extra startup to stuff like Supers to help it match the slight bit of time it would take to input the move on classic. Sort of like how Digital input controllers in Smash have artificial travel time to balance out not using a stick for movement.
@@OkairMcLaren 20 percent less damage isn’t a deterrent to play classic. IMO it should be 33% rounded down. Artificial frame delay would make it more balanced if they don’t go the 33% route. I feel one or the other is good for balance.
@@OkairMcLaren the frames don't match classic already because they don't account for motion input timing, the change suggested above would give modern and classic moves frame parity.
Crazy thing is that those streamers/vtubers are not just only playing for the events like CR cup, they actually are learning how to play the game and grinding. Some even spent over 900 hours for playing SF6 (Akami Karubi for example). Modern is obviously not the perfect system in the world, but I think it benefits so much more than it damages.
Sf 6 is my first sf game aki was what drew my attention being such a unique character but I didn't even know modern controls was a thing but it really helps to learn the basics of the character but I now use classic controls 😊
I will say, I watched a bit of the AT&T thing when they had sf6 on there, and it was even worse than previous iterations. A big difference between it and CR is that the people on there actually wanted to learn and do well by their team. I wish there were more in-game tools to learn motion inputs. The one concession to that is that one pizza minigame in the story mode, and that doesn't really give tips, explain timings or how to use your movement as part of the input etc. There are definitely new players who want to give Classic a go but lack direction.
You have all the tools need to learn motion inputs. Issue is that people that want to learn or think they need to master everything before they even think about playing.
@@sorubro2193 they absolutely should if they want to get better because that would mean there is no reason to use classic and everyone should be playing classic.
I wouldn't have started SF6 if Modern didn't exist. I switched to classic now because I think Modern is badly designed but I still think they went in the right direction.
I play modern. I have beaten every Dark Souls, Sekiro, Sekiro on hard mode (ring bell). I can game. I wanted to get into fighting games for years and couldn’t get off the ground. Modern let me do that. I am certain Modern lets me beat players who have more playtime than me. I am also certain I am missing some of the deeper aspects of the game. My plan now is to learn Classic. I am not as one dimensional as Broski suggests, but I also know I haven’t had to learn timing on combos, or combo routes, or buffering a super for reaction. And I am jealous of the big sexy high damage combos you only get with Classic. It got me in the door, but its not exactly like playing the full game.
What is with fromsoft fans feeling the need to circlejerk themselves by stating what they did in fromsoft games before every discussion of every other game
@@z1u512 Careful bub your intelligence is showing, but to make it easy for the little pea to grasp I was making the point that I don’t need accessibility features. Modern is not just for people who cant game. As you were genius.
@@vandagylon2885 Kinda my point right? The souls games are hard, but the inputs are not. Reason why fighting games are hard to get into even for gamers. Reason why modern controls opens the game for a lot of new players. Seems like you kinda made my point for me Broski. 😂
I think the only issue for modern is that contrary to Granblue Fantasy Versus Rising or 2XKO in the future, where the main control scheme is simple input and with no drawback so it is how you should play the game... SF6 is still designed for classic controls so the devs have to create arbitrary drawback to make modern not as 'good' but theses drawbacks can't be too much or it would fuck people who legitimately like playing as modern/can play only thanks to it. And so the advantage of no motion input become quite oppressive.
After we've played with it for a while, I almost wish they completely ripped off the bandaid and just designed the game for modern controls. It's always going to be an unpopular move for veterans but you can't get these games bigger without lowering the skill floor.
Granblue did it better. Full access to specials, without sacrificing almost anything. No bull and boring autocombos. It just bridges the gap, without separating the crowd. It would have been so much better if SF 'copied the homework'!
I'm actually really glad it has drawbacks, it gives people an incentive to learn inputs, inputs are not the central skill curve of fighting games, they are not everything, but they should exist and be the standard.
@@TheOblomoffI do not agree, granblues easy inputs are just strictly better, and that's kinda boring. If there was an incentive to do inputs anyway, that would be better
Capcom should make option to decide with whom we should play with. You will see that MC player will be enrage cause they are facing each other. And they know that MC vs MC is a BORING MATCH TO WATCH OR DEAL WITH.
I hate modern. ... No, not for people using it competitively, that's perfectly fine. I hate modern because its existence is the reason why you're not allowed to map specials with the same motion in world tour. Yes, the casual mode is the reason I despise it.
The best thing is seeing Modern used at high level in tournaments. The game turns into the ground-based, methodical, neutral-centric fighting game people claim to want but -- like all games that style themselves that way -- is actually boring as fuck. Seeing it represented on occasional competitively is an interesting novelty but I wouldn't want to see it proliferate. The current balancing seems good enough to stave it off for the time being.
Yeah, dude, I love seeing two people stand on opposite sides of the screen, doing literally nothing because if they breathe, they're going to eat a super punish.
Truth is im just old school..... ive been playing fighting games for over 30 years and Modern always felt like easy mode . Just personal beliefs honestly but i see the appeal for newer players ir those who have more trouble
Modern is good for beginners but I think to an extent it's helpful for intermediate-level players too. I've played other fighting games but SF6 was my first Street Fighter game. When I tried to pick up Cammy I struggled because I wasn't used to inputting DP-motion anti-airs. All the characters I had played in the past had anti-air normals, Cammy doesn't. And in Street Fighter to a large extent if you can't anti-air then you can't really play the game. So I switched to Modern Controls and played that way for about 4-5 hours. That way I could concentrate on just learning the character and the game and how to play neutral without worrying so much about execution. After I was comfortable with the character and how their general gameplan worked, I switched back to Classic and I was able to hit DP anti-airs most of the time because I wasn't thinking hard about all that other stuff. I think that playing with Classic Mode is more fun, and when I hit a deep anti-air with Classic Mode on I get excited in a way that I didn't when I was using Modern Controls. But I don't think that I would've put in the effort to learn the character if I didn't have the help of Modern as a stepping stone.
As someone whose first "serious" Sf was 6 and who is a modern player, I found your take on the control scheme very nuanced. I will definitely think about how I approach the game--especially if I'm playing Chun.
RE: Modern Chun, I feel like this happens all the time, they're just not making that much progress. I've spent a lot of time getting around gimmicky Classic players in high Platinum, like teleport-happy Sim relying on people who don't know how to crosscut. Scrubby Chuns have been annoying me with cheap losses and from what I understand this goes back to SFV and SFIV too.
That and Tekken is more easy for a casual - you can actually mash and get stuff, so having a coach teach you what you need to mash to do cool stuff helps a lot. Point kinda proven with Dokibird and Coney (on the first slam): they used only a bit of King's stuff and still get to do cool sequences and get hype on their first Tekken tournament. Having friends/friendly environment does wonders.
It's because Tekken basically uses modern controls, which makes learning everything easier. The reason it works is very much the same reasons why Modern works.
Honestly, I wouldn't have bought SF6 if not for Modern controls. I've always played fighting games since arcade days (including Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, Dark Stalkers, Marvel vs Capcom, etc). And one thing I don't like in a fighting game is a 6+ button attack system. That works in an arcades, where your buttons are laid out beneath your hand like a children's keyboard. But I play on PS5 using a controller with 4 right-hand face buttons. I don't like the feeling of using shoulder buttons as primary attacks. It just feels awkward to me. Even back when I used to play SSF2 on my Super Famicom, I'd map the 2 attack button that I was just never going to use to the 2 shoulder buttons, and I'd play with just 4 buttons (I was very young, but the intention remains). Since then, I played a ton of fighting games that use 4 attack button systems, including Capcom's VS games and it's just made me realize, Street Fighter doesn't need 6 buttons in order to keep these character's move-sets. The 6 button system is a relic of arcades, that IMO, doesn't feel comfortable with a console controller. And I think this may have been part of why the Modern Control scheme was created for SF6 and made the default controls scheme for SF6. SF6 isn't an arcade game... it's a console game. So they wanted a control scheme that's completely comfortable to play on consoles. And Imo, they succeeded. Enter Modern Controls: A 3 button attack system with a special button and macros for the shoulders. It's nearly perfect for controllers! Modern Controls is to controllers SF6 what Aim Assist is to controllers in FPS games... It makes it easier, and more comfortable to do with a controller, what people can more comfortably do with other third party devices (arcade stick, keyboards, etc). Modern also adds an element of beginner friendliness with the Assist Combos and Special Buttons, while at the same time, you can still do customized combos, and Classic Inputs at will. It's a great system, and Imo, I'd like to see Capcom expand on Modern Controls in the future. My only gripe with Modern is that it is a bit too simplified in some areas. The philosophy behind Modern "missing buttons" is basically the devs eliminating redundant buttons in order to simplify attack options. You don't really need Light Punch AND Light Kick. So, they give you the better one of the two options as your default Light attack (usually Light Punch since it's faster). This works in most situations, especially since we can usually access those "missing buttons" by holding the Assist Button and doing the first hit of an Assist Combo. However, in the air, Modern Controls only gives us access to 3 jump attacks; Jump Light, Jump Medium, and Jump Heavy. Which means we're missing half of our air options. I think this is a bit too simplified in some cases, as Modern variants usually get these 3 air functions out of our attacks: jumping cross-up button, jumping air-to-air button, and jumping air-to-ground button. Often times, characters are missing the jump attack that puts opponents into an air juggle state (like Ryu's Jumping Medium Punch)... but this isn't always the case. Modern Cammy has her Jumping Medium Punch. But she's instead missing her Jumping Heavy Punch for a great air-to-ground tool (she has Jumping Heave Kick instead, which is also great). But, I think we should have access to the other three "missing" air options by holding Assist in the air. Aside from that, I absolutely love Modern Controls. It's the reason I play SF6. Whenever I see people talk about Modern Controls, they always say "it's for scrubs, beginners, or disabled people". I never see anyone mention those of us who just don't like 6+ attack button systems on controller. Imo something like Guilty Gear Strive has an almost perfect system. 4 attack buttons and unique/macro buttons on the shoulders. I only say "almost perfect" because proximity attacks can sometimes be unreliable due to janky hurt-boxes. But yeah, this is longer than I intended. Sorry for anyone who read this much lol. But, that's my 2 cents.
agreed. we just want a controls scheme that's actually made for controllers. not a control scheme made for arcade sticks and just mapped onto a controller. modern controls is the closest street fighter has ever come to delivering that. I also plan granblue vs rising. arksys in general is great at making fighting games that have controls schemes that feel like they're meant to be played with a controller. usually, they have 4 button setups. sometimes even 3 buttons.
its definitely a welcome change but yeah the easy-reaction dp or supers maybe need to be accounted for in some way when its modern vs classic matchup. Definitely a net positive feature I'd say
The only problem with Modern I've had is people in very low ranks don't have the execution wall that Classic people have. Their combos also continue to work in bad lag whereas Classic players kinda get left out to dry. Both of these are kinda minor issues but it's likely a lot of the salt for it revolves around these points.
The section about playstyles makes sense, but to a certain degree I think it also applies to some Classic players, where they're trying to find a strat that makes them climb fast (throw unsafe pokes, mash super/drive reversal/DI on wakeup, press buttons on full screen) and then they get frustrated when it stops working or get hardstuck in Diamond. If anything I suspect part of the Modern hatred comes from those type of players, although I agree the worst part of Modern is the fact it stops the game to a crawl just to bait supers, DPs and DIs. With regards to the streamer events, I saw a bit of the AT&T one and not only the SF portion was agonizing, the rest of the games were too since no one gave enough of a shit to learn aside from 4 people. Same applies for the OTK one, although not even the players were invested enough and just picked Zangief/Honda.
This is my first street fighter ever! I tried getting into street fighter 5 when I preordered sf6 but didn’t get into it because of the learning curve. I’m a diamond 2 M Juri and I’m having a blast, in my opinion I’m an above average (modern) player because I do all the inputs unless I need a DP on reaction. I understand the hate but I wish older players understood how this can be a huge up-side for some.
If modern didn't exist the people complaining about it would find something else to complain about. It helps get people into this game that would otherwise never touch fighting games. It is more of a problem for lower levels if anything we aren't seeing top 8s dominated by modern degen characters.
@@adriandenton6637those players would find something else to bitch about. And if its a problem with intermediate players then why are we seeing people bitch about it during tournament streams? People just wanna complain.
@adriandenton6637 Intermediate to high level players are who the game is balanced for in the long term, so as long as the game exists they'll be frustrated at it for one reason or another, and for me adding basic accessibility option for new and/or disabled players is more important than catering to people with 10 followers on twitter
I find modern annoying in the moment and then I just often realize, its on me for losing no matter what. If it was a gimmick or good gameplay classic or modern my fault. I think its whatever and I dont think modern has hurt the game and has helped it, if anything it has helped get people who whine about everything out.
My problem with this is "my fault" does not equal "credit to my opponent". For all you know, they might never AA you without Modern, and the whole match plays differently. Even the reduced mental stack is tremendous and helps every facet of your game, when you know reactions with specials/supers are handled.
If they didn’t beat you with a punish like a frame 1 super or special, still on the same boat as op it was my fault I lost. Modern loses access to plenty of normals and a few specials on most characters, plus they can only do one type of special. So they are playing a handicapped character with the only plus being better reactions from smaller mental stack and faster input. But outside of that everything else in combo or normals they use in neutral are things a classic player can do and if I lose to that it’s not different than losing to classic, on top of me knowing they did that with less damage and worse normals/specials with likely worse frame data cause it is only one version of special or an in in unoptimal normal cause they don’t have access to the optimal one.
@@victorbesson78 Why do they have to beat you with it in order for it to matter? This game can be so snowbally, that winning the 1st interaction can carry you to corner, eating oki and you never recover. Only a few touches to kill. I think everyone agrees it is in some way our own fault when we lose (since we never play perfectly) and also that Modern has some downsides. Those 2 things are not being debated and I don't know why people keep bringing it back to this topic whenever other aspects of Modern is being criticized. It's like the safe space of Modern defenders.
@@libertyprime9307 bro "Those 2 things are not being debated and I don't know why people keep bringing it back to this topic whenever other aspects of Modern is being criticized. It's like the safe space of Modern defenders." If the upsides are criticized what do you expect the response to be? Its the downsides and it has more than the upsides. Also the last remark is the opposite of getting your point across it is basically trying to not have a discussion. Also I have seen your 10 other replies on other comments and if we both want a petty ending to our responses I find it funny you are the only one to like your own comment.
@@libertyprime9307Whether it is "Easier to anti air" or "Easier to do stuff on reaction" it is, no matter what, my fault as the player for losing. Thats the reality of fighting gamss, my opponent can be MenaRD and its still on me for losing. I didnt adapt, I didnt properly punish etc. Claiming they have an "Easier out" doesnt make you better, it just makes you whiner. Your losses are always YOUR fault.
Exactly. If fighting games aren't for them, that's fine. You're already selling a lot of copies, no need to turn the gameplay into a fine paste so that those people can have it fit for them.
Its mad annoying that modern players are just playing different. I now have to learn how to play vs somebody who inputs super in 1 frame and all the motion that makes dp fair are gone. I dont care if its not too strong, its mad annoying. Its their first go at it I guess but i dont love it
I think the biggest argument about modern is the instant invincible reversals and supers which I totally agree about and think they should have a 4 frame delay or something. But there are restrictions on pretty much everything else for new players. We still need to learn: When to Block How to play with a character that’s missing some moves like a sweep or overhead How to approach How to defend How to drive rush How to use drive impact How to counter EVERY characters annoying move Game knowledge for EVERY character Rps All of which feels like the actual parts of the game that people play street fighter for. so while it is a crutch that gives you a leg up, it’s not a “solve all problems” button
Accesibility: 200% onboard with that. Bringing in new players: I was onboard with that until I tought two 12yo and my older brother, who's not even a gamer, with zero previous experience in fighting games to play classic, in under 30 min they could do dp and super, not every time but quite often. I bet anyone who says classic is too hard for new players haven't even tried it for more than a couple of minutes. These kids were eager to learn, and they found real joy in struggling at first and then pulling it off by themselves. To me Modern deprives players of that joy. If anyone wants to play modern because the feel of the game is more enjoyable for them, all the power to them, but to say classic is a barrier of entry is simply not true.
Does her modern input fuha stock special make it an actually reliable option against projectiles? That's the only real argument I can see for her being worthwhile modern outside of ease of execution reasons
I really want to see it. Since season one i thought she was trash. I've been waiting for someone to show what she can really do. I hope you upload some matches. 👍
They just need to fix how fast supers and special moves come out. should be on par with the start-up frames it takes a classic player to pull off the same moves. I don't mind it for newer players.
I'm alright with it if it gets people to play outside of house parties and stuff, same reason I'm hesitantly glad the new fatal fury is getting the smart style (though I do think gatekeeping certain maneuvers or moves is a good idea to get people to actually learn the game)
Modern slows down the game. I'm all for accessibility, but not to undermine the fundamentals of the game for the sake of expanding markets. Obviously they have to make money, but I think people should be critical when designers pick commercial avenues that may overshadow competitive ones. I think modern should stay, I just don't like it in the competitive sense because it slows down the game as you're playing against a player which breaks the fundamental (not like footsies) pace of the game. This is because you constantly must be aware of a one button reversal. Its simply not fun, and it makes the game linear as your options primarily result in taking risks to bait supers out. I genuinely think that modern outputs should at least be what is humanly possible if they were to input the command manually. This would keep its accessibility, but change this dynamic I was talking about
Nah, if anything it speeds things up at high ranks. Fewer options to get in, keep moving, gives your opponent a much smaller list of predictions to make.
Don’t get me wrong, I love the addition of modern controls. It allows so many more people to play the game. The reason I think so many people dislike them is the consistency they provide. I have to do full inputs, time everything and not flub an input, while they hold and spam buttons. Again, these are not my thoughts, only what I think could be one of the reasons they are hated.
Modern should be available in unranked as it is, but in ranked, there should be separate ranking for Modern, as well as ability for Classic players to disable being matched with Modern players. And there should absolutely be no place for Modern vs Classic in any kind of tournament. I'm pretty sure most people are completely fine with Modern as accessibility option for new players, and they are rightfully angry that it lets people to basically have 90% of the game play itself to get a competitive advantage over the opponent who has to do decision making and move inputs all by himself. Easy mode option is fine to learn the basics of the game; easy mode is absolutely not fine to have as an option it competitive and tournaments.
2:23 A lot (not all) of blame can be placed on American politics. Inclusivity and diversity were somehow turned into dirty words. That then gets brought into the modern controls hate on top of other issues
What if burnout when using modern had more penaltis to balance it out ? Like you cant do 1 button supers anymore or get 5 frame delay on startups (supers) that way they fear burn out the same way we all do, and they dont just go balls out knowing they have little to no draw backs burning them selfs.
street fighter is so fucking funny. sf6 macros = fresh and beginner friendly but third strike macro binds = fucking cheating (because THATS WHAT IT IS)
I'm all for Modern, I hate fighting it. It is a good thing, bu t it's madly frustrating when I get an input out in decent time, and they get to push a button and win. It's good for the game, but it frustrates me. So many people us it for cheap easy wins, and I hate it.
Having to adapt to play against certain characters- fair enough, seeing modern and having to adapt to one button specials and supers is extremely frustrating
Chat is toxic because some influencers craated this "modern problem". If you're bad you will lose if the adversary plays C or M and that's the majority of modern haters.
Right now a modern player in top 8 is pretty rare. I just hope the meta stays this way. Modern can kind of remove beautiful parts of SF legacy language.
I think it’s fine Modern allows players to skip certain aspects of SF. If that’s how people enjoy playing the game, and they don’t want to get to a level beyond that I think that’s fine for majority of casuals to want to get into the game at as long as they’re having fun. If there is a Modern player who wants to take the game seriously competitive, they’ll learn to pick up those aspects themselves with the benefit of the training wheels that Modern provides. I can see a Modern player who’s in the right mindset practicing much more on aspects like footsies because they don’t have to worry nearly as much about jump-ins.
Im glad I am not the only one that noticed that modern is way more hated in the west than the east. It feels very reflective of American conservatism. Modern is different and it's easier out the gate and legacy players had to work hard to learn how to do a Z input so they hate modern.
To be honest, modern made all of street fighters more attractive to me, personally. I've tried it out as a beginner thing. Then I tried to learn it better and not only rely on one button things, started learning fundamentals and all other cool stuff, etc. I loved it. Now I'm trying to learn classic. But there is a huge minus of modern and it's one buttoned dps... It's really addictive and too easy to clutch with that sometimes. The funny thing was that people were HATING me in battle hub, cus I played on footsies. And started mocking me for being modern... Like idk, I'm viewing this more like another character playstyle. Yes, it's scrubby sometimes, but it depends more on the player and his choices. I don't get the reason for such a huge butthurt.
If it wasn't for Modern I probably would never got over my fear/incompetence for fighting games, now I'm a lot more confortable doing motion inputs after starting with modern, can't talk for people on the competetive scene with 20-plus years on SF, but I'm the demographic modern controls aim for. If it was dominating the competetive scene I would get the hate it gets, but the reallity is that it's not
It dominates at your level though, around Gold and below. A Classic Silver is much more skilled than a Modern Silver even though the matchup averages 5/5.
i am a beginner and have never played a fighting game in my life except at arcades. And yes i button mash But now, I think modern makes me want to try playing fighting game again.
As you pointed out, it isn't particularly strong, but being immune to stun, and not having to buffer during block strings is so useful in this game that it can net advantages for the player. sf6 is my first fighting game and I chose classic because for me the whole point of playing fighting games is to learn how they work and how to control your character properly. That's where the fun comes from; learning and executing. Yesterday you couldn't do it but today you can, and tomorrow you will learn a new punish, a new frame trap, something that will keep learning and trying. I don't see the point in taking the easy road. All the satisfaction comes from the struggle of losing, learning, and overcoming.
I'm trying to introduce my brother to fgs, but he never liked them for the heavy mechanical skills required wich he doesn't want to learn. Modern has been a blessing for him in sv6, he can finally play withour having to train motion inputs and that stuff
