The "Trap" of identity politics | Yascha Mounk 

Only sometimes?

@@patavinity1262 I was trying not to overstate it 😂

I feel like you're too worried about identity politics on the left when it's 10x as prevalent and 10x as toxic on the right. Sometimes.

15:45 ahhh the SargonofAkkad excuse! "Everyone knows the right is bad, let's criticize the left!" BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you're 10 years late, Yasha.

"Risk", LOL. There's no center, so that's not really possible. It's so funny how writing the words makes it seem real, though? Where would you even get this wisdom without any experience from?

Fun Fact: Liberals are not Leftists. It's ok to silence Fascism. Figure it out.

Yep and the left much like the Right (which is sad to say out loud) is befallen by believing whatever social movement feels the best to their emotions. Seeing people, friends even take the side of Hamas has been insane, seeing the left drop all of their values to support Palestine to the extent they are doing to me is emotional/factless and makes no sense for a Liberal, how could liberals support some of the things BLM did, it is a liberal value to not allow people to infringe the rights of others…Hamas displays zero regard for this, BLM appears to hold zero regard as well. Yes the far right is disgusting and maybe Israels government deserves much criticism but from what I see as a life ling atheist liberal, the far left holds not a single value other than factless-emotional plees.

Well, in some ways there has been a very real break from liberalism on the whole by many moderate Democrats (libs) and some significant parts of the Left. You're right though that the opportunity to grab power by sacrificing formerly held values is behind it. Such temptation also occurs to everyone all the time in relationships and moneymaking.

Where is this happening? There's no "Left". The Right just declares ""We are one of two sides, the good one ".. There's nothing organized in any manner to lay any broad descriptions at all.

LOL. "He sat in his chair and used a pencil correctly". The bar doesn't even exist here.

He explained why more people are turned off by authoritarianism that they associate with the Left and end up voting for Trump, even if they have left-of-center liberal views on most social issues.

I'm taking a tour in the opposite direction, from alternative media to MSM. Holy sht, the US is about to be taken over by fascist trumpism and all the online left is talking about is medicare. It's like waking up to a nightmare from a sweet dream that i was put into by the online left.

Welcome

Welcome to David, he's one of the best.

Don't stop searching for independent news sources

This was my impression as well!

I found David to seem defensive on behalf of identity politics.

@@eemoogee160I got that impression too.

​@@eemoogee160You were not alone.

what's the problem?

@@Artur-vx7qy I'm curious what the context of that is?

Not there by accident. (Daddy issues) His argument is specious. Bernie lost in 2016 and his side won in 2020, so his argument on Bernie is exactly wrong. This guy's selling books. Carry on.

It was a popular slogan used by civil rights activists

The context is that…he is a man. What’s your problem? Gosh….the feminists today.

You don’t think wars, terrorism, famines, refugee crises, world economic issues don’t have affects on other nations, their domestic politics, or identity politics? The conflict between Israel and Palestine alone has inflamed identity politics in a very clear way.

@@TheGoodShepherd117 Not directly. In each case, it is still the existence of racism and bigotry that causes the identity politics. Not the fact that the affairs are international. This guy is a hack, a SargonofAkkad 10 years too late. Dismissed.

100 percent agree

Popper was cringe. Closed societies are going to overtake the west.

Anyone can identify themselves however they choose. That shouldn't mean they get more or less rights than anyone else. The people who are attacking others, posting things on their walls like, "I am a man." Absolutely expect their right to define themselves to be respected.

Identity based on actions and choices is fine; EG "I'm a Democrat", or "I'm a Chiefs fan". However, Identity based on immutable characteristics can be a problem. EG "As a person with red hair, I feel....." assumes that all people with red hair have similar life experiences and/or values.

@@Ninjaa320 I agree. That's why I'm more interested in interest group politics when it comes to human and civil rights. We are all different but we share a common interest in being treated fairly.

I'm very sure there are lots of types of politics and political thought which have nothing to do with one's identity. What reasoning led you to make such a clearly nonsensical assertion?

I was going to write something about this but you did it better. Well said.

His argument reminds of those in the LGBTQ community who want to remove the T to try and appeal towards conservatives. Disgusting.

there's a paper titled "Political Diversity Will Improve Social Psychological Science," & i recommend it to everyone

Oh boy you’re gonna be disappointed to learn that Pakman, while offering some pushback here, is historically critical of identity politics, postmodernism, critical race theory, and socialism. Is David therefore advocating for conservatism in sheep’s clothing? No. Illiberalism must be combatted wherever it rears it’s head; on the right or the left. Identity politics got Obama elected and it got Trump elected. Maybe we should go back to prioritizing merit as opposed to immutable characteristics.

@@pathologicaldoubt I wouldn't put postmodernism in with that group. Identity politics didn't get Obama elected, he was clearly better by any measure. Was merit really prioritized when mostly white men ran things? Seriously, that was when identity mattered more than anything.

You literally have no idea what you're talking about. How can you be simultaneously so ignorant and arrogant? Its astounding.

I disagree that this is a problem on the right but even if I did agree with you, you fail to consider the fact that people on the populist right have nearly no institutional power. The media, Silicon Valley, Hollywood, academia, k-12 education, pro sports, the recording industry, the publishing industry, etc are all controlled by the left and these institutions seem to be basking in these sorts of identity politics and cancelling anyone who voices concerns about them.

The guy literally warned about Trump and far right issues in several books and for over a decade (as he said), and never once in the whole program said the issues on the left are worse. If I’m wrong please find the part, show it to me, and I’ll delete my comment. It is possible the left can go too far and screw up to you know… to think otherwise is just tribalism.

Yes. Bret is a cautionary tale.

Bret is genuine unlike this yashi

Independents decide elections these days.

They will stop voting, though.

I think the “Bernie Bros” is a fantasy construct, but I have also seen some people who actually supported Trump in 2016 despite knowing he was full of it just because they wanted a seismic disruption of the status quo. 😢

@@xiaoka In 2016, yes. Now after we see that Trump is worse than most of us ever imagined, I seriously doubt he gets the independent vote. He lost independents in 2020.

Would you believe me if I told you that democracy is more than just elections cycles? The capacity to assess and critically think of issue is more valuable than who gets to sit in any chair temporarily. You carefully chose the word "intersectional", while it is not what the author argue against. Intersection is not an approach, it is a statistical reality. Ex: poverty hits everyone, some groups more than others. If you focus on eliminating poverty, you should help those group proportionally. The school principal in his example opted for segregation while being convinced she was doing the students a favor. Nothing intersectional about it is there?

It's okay man, you're allowed to have an idpol ideology, and others are allowed to critique it. Nobody is forcing you to watch people that disagree with you.

what makes you say that?

@@KevinUchihaOG This is the same inane IDW drivel we've been hearing for like 5 years. It's pathetic.

god the left is so disappointing.

@@Ggaia-d9z You conservatives suck. I don't care about your concern trolling.

@@Ggaia-d9z indeed, how could Trump have any chance? It's depressing.

At least his version referenced the material conditions of minority groups, as opposed to the usual morally bankrupt arguments which amount to a thinly-veiled "white, cishet men bad".

@@synchronium24 Totally!!!

How so? By considering the issue at all?

You talking about Yascha or David?

Which university?

This just isn't possible, LOL. "The Left " isn't a real thing. His opening sentences are crazy nonsense. Promises? What is he talking about? Congrats though. You're showing us how Iraq happened.

Perfect analogy, I'm keeping this one in my back pocket.

To be fair he did write books going after the far right and Trump, but I know what you mean,

I agree with that. People often are essentially saying "touch grass, this stuff isn't that prevalent". People who say that are lucky they *don't* have to touch the grass, people *do* care about identity, and it causes discord within personal relationships. We just don't talk about it, because it's so personal.

"Personal becoming political." Very interesting observation.

This isn't reality at all. No wonder Iraq happened.

They are more useless than useful.

@@chrisbfreelance True, though sometimes there's legit no alternative

A true tribe leader right here. Someone get this guy a Chief Headdress.

Yes

It’s called “whataboutism” and the right has perfected it.

If that were going on here then you would have a valid point. David is right. Listen for comprehension next time.

15:45 ahhh the SargonofAkkad excuse! "Everyone knows the right is bad, let's criticize the left!" BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you're 10 years late, Yasha.

"the irreputable circle of blinkered consciousness". Beautiful nonsense. Generations raised on bratty op-ed punditry instead of reality and humility. Idiocracy with a diploma.

She's a great judge though, so what if she's black?

@@asusmctablet9180 Race and gender shouldn't be factors. If the best person for the job just so happens to be a black woman, fine, but that shouldn't be what the president is looking for when nominating judges.

He downplays it because he fully agrees with it.

I’m assuming you are talking about the black parent vs black school board administrator the guest was talking about… and in reference to that I believe you’re dodging the fact that if you are surrounded by people from within minority communities, you’ll know that there can be a friction between black and white people due to the history of that area, specifically in areas which have generations of families still living there, i.e., Atlanta. So when you hear about a black person wanting their child to be in a class with other black kids, or Vice versa, in this case, then it is assumed, by way of the history of the area, that they want their child to not be as exposed to racism as they can, in the reverse it would be to be teach the child diversity and in both cases has nothing to do with the parent teaching racism to their child. It’s more an issue of “sticking with your own kind”, which obviously doesn’t work, especially in the USA where there isn’t a sense of unity in Nationalism unless you are an outwardly proud American Nationalist. This idea trickles down into minority communities where then you have, for example, black on black crime, or minorities swallowing the “red pill”, where people don’t trust or respect their ancestral roots and want to conform to something else. This is a HUGE issue in the USA and is the exact reason why David Pakman bought it is as literally stemming from Conservatives because their history speaks exactly to identify politics.

@@banehelsing7541 You teach racism by treating races differently.

@@Anuchan Eehhhh, I disagree with that. Especially if ethnicity is attached to the race of the person, in such case, we’re going to treat a native born Buddhist differently than a native Arabic Muslim. Or a White Russian differently than a Black Voodooist. It’s about teaching that we all have differences and to respect different beliefs not that one is better than the other.

@@banehelsing7541 Do you treat Jews differently from Christians? Or Muslims? Unless the topic is religion or culture, everyone's the same in a secular classroom.

@@Anuchan There are differences in how we interact with Christians versus Jews, etc. I’m not saying that we aren’t equal I’m just saying that we’re going to interact and treat people differently and sometimes it can be due to their ethnicity + race because we’re talking about different cultures. Even within Christian sects, for example, one Christian may say bad words and another doesn’t, one Muslim May be against alcohol the other not, ect… it’s very individually based.

I think you meant to write "easy" and yes. The only reason he doesn't care about identity being respected is, his never has.

How can you possibly know that?

@@janeygo4252 Pattern and practice.

@@robertwhyte3435 more like pride and prejudice 😂

What divides people is lies and fear and....*human existence*. We never had an "undivided" era at any time.

Only appears to get surface politics… dominated by the loudest in the room.

It’s so funny that you think the there’s something less valuable about the view of someone who has a PhD in Political Science, a Professor teaching American students at an American University, who writes dozens of articles specifically on the subjects he’s speaking of, and oh, by the way, who’s also been living in the US for decades and is a voting US citizen…

@@xiaoka and yet he can still sound like an idiot.

Not only impacting and altering ethical and behavioral norms in university bubbles, or private schools. It's most everywhere, and increasing, just to a lesser extent in less "elite" spaces. See it occurred in red parts of purple states when it comes to businesses, public institutions, etcetera. Also seeing some pushback that takes its own disturbing authoritarian tendencies. Not good, and not meh!

You think Vlad Vexler "is great on Russia" because you yourself are not great on Russia. That is, you can't see when he is wrong on Russia. But you know what is going on in the US far better (than in Russia). Therefore you can see his mistakes regarding the US

Way to make a point. You might as well say his views bothers you. If you were being honest that is... Not holding my breath.

oh so you did read his book

what about what a "black" dude has to say about identity politics?

This exactly is what’s wrong with left. This is exactly why people will continue to support people like Trump.

an oddly proud declaration of racism

He's not stupid because he's white, he's stupid because he doesn't understand that what he takes for granted isn't universal, he needs to look beyond his privilege.

No facts come from fascist noble liars like you. In fact there are no countries and least of all an "america".

Yes, Nationalism is bad. It's short-sighted and only leads to xenophobic hatred. Plus, it's only loved by Fascists.

I think to be fair the "goal" will be different for different people. Not everyone is a scheming "cultural Marxist". But the concept like so many movements and subcultures is cynically being coopted and weaponized by those in already in power (Not real leftists).

LOL. How and who and why? These answers really show why 85% of the country blindly supported the Right in Iraq.