The TRUTH about Box and Papers - Buying and Selling Watches 

Links to Chrono24 - bit.ly/2YAedYW Rolex Submariner - bit.ly/30PmL0R Omega Speedmaster - bit.ly/2CcuI61 Rolex GMT Master II Pepsi - bit.ly/3egD0Id Cartier Santos 2656 - bit.ly/2C3O4db

I like what Breitling is doing with the digital ownership certificate. If they do it correctly, those will be much harder to duplicate.

Can everybody drink a shot when Adrian says 'Box and papers' please? I'm drunk already... 🥃

In my opinion the most important thing about having B&P is that it makes it less likely that the watch was stolen. Of course it's not impossible that even a "full set" could be taken in a home burglary - but that must be a less common scenario.

i feel like without box and papers, im missing the complete package. So when im spending thousands on a watch i want the whole thing.

I’ve heard a saying - “Focus on buying the dealer and not just the watch!”. In a “fluid” collection this would be key for me, because a dealers reputation would help trace provenance and ensure overall condition!

Great video Adrian, very enjoyable that. From a retailers viewpoint I always sensed the less the customer knew about watches and what he was potentially buying, the more important B&P were to him. The more experienced and the more informed buyers were (IMHO) rightly more concerned about condition. The most astute buyers of all, would show immense patience whilst trying to achieve both. Was very pleased to hear you say that condition is the most important thing to you, as for me that's a good message to spread. Cheers.

I just wanna say, your intro music is one of the best. Love it.

Good video. Thanks. I went looking for a 2531.80 Bond and made sure it had the papers. Boxes for those old Omegas are generally toasted now because of the cheap pleather so if you find a perfect box, its likely just a repro. I found a new timber Omega box which is lovely.. yes it doesnt match but nicer for display.

The thing can be summarized as follows: Watches above a certain price have their individual serial number, so having the papers that certify or guarantee their origin and authenticity not only gives peace of mind to the buyer, but will also facilitate their possible future sale and, therefore, together with the possession of the original box, their total value also increase. In principle, logically, the ideal is, then, to have the "complete package" (watch + papers + box). Now, how important is it to have the original papers and box when we buy a used / second-hand watch? The answer is somewhat complex but at the same time simple, because it depends mainly on two factors: whether you want to keep the watch or if you plan to resell it in the future, and most important of all: its price (because in the end everything depends on the price). I do not mention the aesthetic (cosmetic) and functional condition of the watch because for me that is a "must", that is, every watch I buy must be in perfect or almost perfect condition, regardless of whether it comes with papers and box or not. If your intention is to buy a piece to use for a while and then resell it, it is obvious that having the papers and the box will facilitate the task of resale, especially the more valuable the piece is. After all, if you buy it at a fair price, the piece will easily maintain its value and you will not lose money even if the purchase price was higher than if you had bought it without papers or box. Furthermore, it must be taken into account that luxury brands generally revalue over time. However, if your intention is to keep the piece (especially considering that this hobby leads us to buy many and very expensive pieces), the most advantageous thing (from a purely economic point of view) is to buy it at the best possible price, and this almost necessarily involves acquiring it "incomplete" (without papers or box), as long as the piece is in optimal condition and you are certain that it is authentic / original. After all, it won't be too difficult to resell it if the purchase price was substantially (or at least reasonably) lower. In other words, if you know how to buy at the best price, it does not matter whether or not the piece has papers and a box if the final intention is to resell it after a while, since the resale price will also be in accordance with the acquisition price when it was purchased, therefore, in neither case will money be lost (there may even be a profit in either way). On the other hand, if you do not plan to resell the piece in the future, the best option (economically speaking) is to buy it cheaper (most likely without the original documentation). In short: the most advantageous option, from a purely logical point of view, would be to always buy at the best (lowest) possible price, and that means, in most cases, buying "incomplete" pieces. However there are exceptions of course. Furthermore, this hobby involves a non-logical expense, since it is about emotions and not the brain. Although it never hurts to use logic with emotions as well. 😉

To add to having the papers and receipt especially to specific buyers is knowing if you’re getting the watch straight from the first owner. Ben Clymer himself said he prefers knowing exactly where or who the watch came from and the story behind it. Getting a watch from the first owner gives you that “value”. Great video mate!

Thank you for an interesting discussion Adrian. I never really cared about box and papers (favouring the lower price) but I think I will start to look for papers as well 😊👍

Great video once again Adrian, very informative and helpful. Thank you

For me it's about authenticity, and importantly also, the authenticity of the seller. It's rare in my opinion to have a watch like a Rolex originating within the last ten years that doesn't have its warranty card, box less so but also a factor. These are both good tools to have when deciding that the individual selling that watch obtained it genuinely, as well as it being genuine. Buyers of these watches generally appreciate that disposing of these items would be foolish, even a receipt would be helpful. Older, vintage watches, it's a nice to have but far more understandable when not present. As an owner of a Rolex gold sub that was ripped from my wrist after a savage beating in the centre of Barcelona a few years back, I can tell you that piece is making its way around the market without its papers now (I still have them) and if and when that piece gets its first Rolex service, it's current owner may well regret the lack of papers.

Such a great video! Very insightful! Appreciate this.

Your enthusiasm for watches is infectious, I’ve just bought my first luxury watch, an Omega Seamaster professional 300M in blue, I love it

The one that gets me is a nearly new watch without box or papers. That’s just odd and doesn’t fill me with confidence about the purchase. Yet you do see it quite a bit.

As always, an excellent and informative video

Yes. The more expensive the more important it is

In order of their importance - 1. Papers 2. COSC certificate 3. Spare links 4. Manuals 5. Box. No. 1 and 2 are irreplaceable, No. 3 can be purchased from service center, No. 4 and 5 can only be purchased from grey market.

Great video! I spend 5 years in Dubai and it was normal practice that the locals would throw away everything except the watch, platinum, gold links included they bought to keep and obviously did care about the rest. Keep up the great video’s 👍

There’s something so appealing about the neo-vintage era Rolex boxes & papers

Nice to see facts and figures on this subject thanks Adrian.

I have box and papers for all of my collection, I also add to each piece the receipt for a service or anything else that has been done. This adds history to the piece and a timeline of it’s lifetime, in someways it helps tell a story.

Great video to show the stats, thanks for sharing that.

Excellent topic. "Box & Papers" has become an industry in its own right: the Chrono24 stats show why! Ebay makes it easy to buy a box, fake/unsigned papers are a long standing issue, as is the factory extract statement being offered as original paperwork (it isn't). Overall I'd say a significant % of B&P don't fully stand up to scrutiny and I like your suggestion of looking for the original purchase receipt. Also other items (eg. original chronometer certificate) that could only have come with that specific watch and are too obscure to be faked. Buy the seller, buy the watch, look for B&P, in that order of priority.

A, I always enjoy your finesse between sponsorship/opinions, got to make a living.

That's actually a good video. I'm proud of your growth.

They DO NOT MATTER, it only matters to the person buying. If you purchase a watch with no box and papers you can still authenticate with a cert from Rolex. If you send in your watch for service or anything else, Rolex sends it back with a list of repairs and that is just as good as the original papers in terms of authenticity. What matter is, whether or not the watch is authentic, not that it has papers and a box with it. If someone is willing to pay more because of a box and papers, that's their own preference.

Great video mate. Spot on. And nice to see the Tobermory mug, their peated drop, Ledaig, is a fave.

Great video, and Chrono24 great for tracking the potential value of your watch collection, recently they added the box and papers update, and it does make a difference, which brings me to my point, what’s the key to there algorithm, is it average or mean value, based on individual reference, or does it include variations. My 42mm date just is currently showing well over valued ?

Another great video Adrian enjoyed watching it.

Extremely helpful! Thank you!

Great video, really enjoyed it! What is your opinion on no papers but recent service papers present instead?

Very informative video. Thank you

Great video as always. Im building up to a speedmaster pro. As its my first luxury one i want all the bells and whistles

Without trolling comments.....lowest is watch head only below watch (with bracelet). Great video Adrian, with perfect time and excellent editing! You have really upped your own game here.

Congrats on the sponsorship: it’s well deserved. I think the video was very good and summarises extremely well what many of us perceive and experience 🙂

solid contents, nice to watch. also nice that you got sponsored by Chrono !

Box is no big deal assuming I'm able to source a period-correct one myself. But I will not buy without papers. I'm too much of a perfectionist and all my watches, most purchased second hand, are full kit. I'm also lots of fun at parties.

I love the box and papers. Great video 👍

B&J makes an interesting point that was breezed over and that is that a lot of us are on a journey through watch collecting. For our journey to be as transient as possible box and papers is a must. I think we all like to think we've 'the one' but getting there need not be made more difficult.

For me box and papers is statutory requirement. I also ask for the original proof of purchase especially if there is no previous owner. Also I ask for proof of service history. But as Paul Thorpe always bangs on: condition is key.

Great video. You really nailed it. I have nine watches. Five have box and papers four the complete packet. My Rolex GMT has a service packet which I consider essential when buying a steel sports model. The rest of combinations of box and papers but I bought them pre owned and at heavy discounts like my Breitling Trans ocean 1959 limited edition. It retailed for 9k USD. I bought it for 4k. Don't care it was a new old stock orphan. Great watch but most likely wasn't and never be worth anything. Like he said pick your poison just make sure you buy what you love. I love my Breitling as much as the Rolex. But maybe the Rolex a bit more because I can hock it to make bail.

Brilliant, informative video! Keep up the great #content

I like box and papers. Full set is icing on the cake but, wow, some of the prices! Adrian, I love the way you cut this video (especially the '...box and papers a lot' J-cut). Very slick, very watchable. Cool!

Thanks Chrono24 for supporting Adrian and regarding box and paper with all this massive improvements in fake markets it becomes vital to have especially when we talk about something worth thousands however it’s personal decision as investments every one have different goals and needs

Brilliant video. Thanks.

Hi Adrian, thanks for yr videos always interesting and humourous - what do you think of the yacht master 16622 ? supposed to replace the sub in the 90's and than ... didn't. However an interesting piece in my opinion - same mvt and pretty much under the radar ... a bit like the explorer II ... would love to hear your views about it - cheers !

Great analysis, will you be doing a video of that GS on your wrist?

I absolutely love the F.P. Journe style of delivery, you get a traditional certificate but alongside it is a beautifully designed Flash drive which conveniently contains the Time-piece Information and a Digital Certificate.

Not only are they important if you plan to resell your watch someday, I also think box & papers represent an important accompaniment to a family heirloom. Sure, it's great to inherit your dad's watch. Now imagine you also have the box and paperwork to go with it, which includes your dad's signature on the bill of sale from decades ago. That, my friends, is something truly special. I've shifted from flipping watches to buying pieces that my kids will inherit someday. So my boxes go directly into storage and my papers go into the safe. Easy as that!

Thanks for valuable information.

Great video debate A! As you said it's and will be a nvr ending debate....I personally prefer to have B&P, and given the choice everyone would, so it's a compromise to not have them.

Very interesting and informative video

I've bought a couple watches without box and papers. Honestly it doesn't bother me personally but when it comes to moving the watch, it's impossible.

Great video . It needs a sea change on how people think . Sure it should be a little more desirable if it has box and papers but it becomes ridiculous.. As long as the watch is in decent condition and authenticity in guaranteed then this is the major factor . I think many of us are caught in a trap where we will only buy if it has box and papers because as you say most people realise it so much easier to shift if required with box and papers .

Same as you Adrian, I bought recently multiple watches with papers and box optionally ...

I bought my preowned 2009 Navitimer with Box and Papers. The "papers" was only the warranty booklet. So I reassembled a full set from various sources. Manual from Israel. Slide rule bezel instructions and practice wheel from California. A hang tag, Breitling polish cloth and the little yellow document boxes that fit in the well under the inner box from a French website. And finally, the card about the Bakelite box from Italy. For the COSC certificate I had to get a replacement for my Navitimer through my AD. The AD verified the watch and took the serial number, then two weeks later they received the certificate. It cost about 80 GBP. It was a little bit bonkers, but I'm a completionist.

Box and papers is also somehow a providence that the watch is not a loot, tat is when you wanna sell

I recently bought a preowned Tudor Heritage Chrono, it came with everything , box, outer box , tags , service warranty card from Tudor, service receipt, extra Tudor nato , booklets, etc etc almost a full set , but it would be gold if it came with original purchase receipt. I much prefer buying a watch with box and papers if buying privately but if buying from dealer, I wouldn’t mind without box and papers because I trust them that the watch has been checked out and serviced before sale

I ran into this questions when I purchased my 1st Pre-owned Rolex Explorer 114270, In the ended I decided to get one with full set, and I made a good decision.

I always lean towards box and papers. Helps me feel better about the authenticity of the watch, even though it's not a guarantee.

I'm new to watches - looking to buy my first rolex . I don't know any AD's - no I'm on my own . for me - box& papers/ hang tag is a must. - all said, very hesitant in buying from the grey market . good luck ~ JDS/CT

For me it’s plus box and papers minimum and I feel it gives some idea of how the watch has been looked after not a firm point but part of my overall thinking. Naturally I would take all I could get and I love a receipt or service details. I wouldn’t buy without papers probably not without the box.

Good vid. And, yes, I'm one of those people who could happily own 20 watches but I sometimes have to sell one to buy one. All part of the journey.

Older watch.... Say 2005 ( before the Rolex ‘boom’) no worries, not too concerned. If there is papers it’s a bonus. . But after that time when everyone is aware of the value.... why no papers. It immediately flags up questions. I’ve had stories of divorce and never allowed back in the house, moved office and the secretary must have thrown them out. I sold an old watch and gave the wrong box and papers away..... I’ve heard them all. 😂 As others have commented, a bit like a car.... if you have the old mot’s and all invoices it gives loads of confidence. I have a couple of classic cars and I’ve ironed the old mot’s and filed them all in matching sleeves, but I’m sad and a complete anorak! Have to cut this short now I have to count the number of stones on our shingle driveway..... Great video Adrian, cheers!

Great video

I put aside $1 every time he said "box and papers" and now I have enough to buy my first luxury watch. Cheers!

Thank you 🙏, appreciate it

Excellent video

very good video!

It would be really interesting to see a video on selling a watch privately (dos and don’ts) or to a preowned dealer.

Yea I guess it goes toward authenticity especially on the high end watches.

I wanted with my first Rolex (one and done) to have box/papers and I waited. Thank God! It feels good having the complete set.

Buddy how do u rate the H Moser endeavour concept blue lagoon watch .. I’m looking at buying the same ... also does it hold its price over the years or a preowned is a better option . Pls help . Many thanks .

Is there any way to find out how long an advert has been up for a particular piece, or, similarly, the average time advertised for particular pieces/ websites? Thanks in advance guys

Nice video Adrian, I have my dads invoice from mappin & Webb 1989 Rolex GMT master £1000 🤑 I keep it safe 👍 keep up the good work Matt.

I agree, the condition of the watch and the papers are the only things I care about.

Great to see some actual statistics, good on Chrono24 for providing those. I’d never buy a used premium watch without papers, especially a Rolex, since that’s the brand most counterfeited. For the watches I’ve bought, all new from AD’s, I have everything, including receipts and either the original box it was shipped in or the bag I got at the boutique. But I don’t anticipate selling any of the three nice watches I have, so keeping all of the stuff just makes me feel good, I suppose. Looks like you got a haircut 😏.

This is my story: I had a 1999 GMT pepsi that I bought new, it was stollen from me about 10 years ago, I still retain box, papers, and everything else. Now, why anyone would not have the original papers, when he sell his watch: The answer is that very probably the watch has been stollen. Everybody knows that. So, the best thing to do would be don't buy a watch, without papers, i.e. stollen, that would immediately break the criminal market of stollen watches.

I think the box and papers percentage increase, is pretty much in line with watches you buy because you are a collector vs watches you buy because you like the watch.

Good vid but you forgot to include rsc service papers as they ad a slightly different proposition cheers m

I love box and papers. It’s nice to see what companies display different types of box styles and Manuel’s.

Vintage watches: Go for a nice patina instead of wasting money on papers! That's what really triggers attention and love. With the next service, Rolex for example will give you a plastic warranty card - and that's a pretty good substitute for a missing original paper.

Great information, thank you.

This is a good video ya boi

I bought a 5513 in 1980 for £690, have boxes, tags ,a RSC paper, I don't believe I was ever given the original guarantee paper ,but I do have the original receipt with my name on it ,in fact I have two because I put a deposit on it and have the receipt for that aswell .so not quite a full set ,but have service papers & the receipt s.

i wouldn’t buy a watch without box/papers because the watch COULD be stolen; which i don’t want to support. :) great video

Papers and boxes are important! Even I'm not selling any of it, but the thing is, boxes designs are so important!

Love your videos Adrian. I will literally buy whatever luxury watch you say I should buy, lol. Keep it up and thanks.

Hi Adrian, I'm not quite sure, but I thought I heard you mention box and papers in your vid? What do you think, will box and papers add value a watch?

Hey Adrian so im looking for an omega speedaster day date or mark 40 or triple date in the blue face, im going to buy it for myself and dont intend ever re selling it, would i need box and papers for that?

Pretty good video actually Adrian, makes me think. If I were to have one watch for life, I'd definitely want the full set. But if I were to have one watch for life, I wouldn't care about the accessories.

Not important when buying as long as you are not paying for them, but very important when trying to sell at the best price.

Watches like Rolex you should avoid without papers. It is not because price difference but you do not have any history, no documents... It is up to you only, it can be tricky.

5:08 most enthusiasts buy a watch to enjoy, never to resell nor flip it... so good luck with that shoe-size Omega Speedmaster box LOL

circumstances, especially financial circumstances, can change at anytime, and things we once believed we'd never part ways with can become expendable. A luxury item is an asset, and I feel should always be treated as such.

Yes

Never liked and subscribed. 👀😬 until now, thank you!