This may soon run out. HSR has a very simple combat system for a turn based games. With how fast they are releasing characters, it's inevitable that the new characters will copy previous characters mechaniques. Spoilers* yunli has a very similar gameplay with Clara and jiaqiu id basically a 5star guinaifen. Unless the devs are big brain people who can somehow keep making unique characters , every patch, i don't HSR will remain original
@@introvertion6460jiaqui is definitely not a five star guinafen he's a side grade to her and is only an acheron support and yunli has more precise gameplay I think but I agree with you mostly on yunli but there are still many routes they could go with stats like effect res
@@introvertion6460 patch 2.4 is the easiest skip go for FeiXiao and Lingsha unless you want either Yunli or JQ, JQ is literally a 4.5 star due to his nerfs in his kit
HSR endgame is great as it constantly incentives me to improve my account with a diverse roster which can tackle any situation but my primary issue is how tied it is to the patch's character release. This isn't a problem for me personally but I know for a lot of players the buffs being tailored made for the new character can feel frustrating and leads into a unhealthy FOMO cycle but as long as you are good at team building this can be mitigated (or just use the Super-Break core of Ruan Mei + HMC + Gallagher). Also Apocalyptic Shadow is NOT a hunt game mode, thats a myth, its a mode where you have to exploit the buffs and this cycle incentives breaking weakness.
That's why it's good to pull for characters like Acheron or Firefly. Acheron's ult literally goes through enemy toughness regardless of their type and Firefly applies Fire weakness. I can tell Acheron and Firefly will be good for quite a white. Don't pull mid units, pull for the broken units.
I would say if they are going to tailor the battles to specific characters or teams It's way better to do it to characters that are currently on banner opposed to setting them up so that players would need a character that is no longer available or hasn't been available for months
Y'see it's not about how they tied the fight to current units that gets me... it's the sheer shamelessness that got me. Like it's one thing to make the gimmick favor the current rate up unit.. but they went even further to gimp older unit that can take advantage of those gimmick. E.g in current PF 4 they specifically made the first room second wave a non attacking mob which effectively sealed Clara and Aventurine which otherwise is a strong contender for 30+k under current gimmick. Stuff like this is what makes them looks like a petty asshole.
@@paulyvii But if you just pull for broken units, yet you don't like the broken units, what is even the point of playing a gacha? I don't like Acheron, I didn't roll for her. I have suffered far more than any of my friends who all went from E0S1 or E2S1, or E6S1 to max stars every game mode unlike them, until god bless firefly came out, who I do like, and happens to be OP.
I have problems with the recent HSR design: -Lightcones lost their purpose, now they work exactly the same way as eidolons. Recent signature LCs are very restrictive and only work with a specific character. Good example Kafka's LC vs Acheron LC. The second best 5 stars option for every characters is always some old LCs like kafka, Jingliu, Jing Yuan. For 4 stars it's always dance dance dance, GNSW, swordplay, MOTP; always the ones that were released in 1.0, never the new ones. -The old MOC's floors always had 2 alternatives, it was like Ice andLightning weakness, now it's just something like lightning and they specifically add something to nullify ice. By adding their version of "endgame" Hoyo figured that they can increase FOMO and make more profit. Endgame should be skill/knowledge based, not stats/character based. That's just fomo, it's only good for the company while being bad for the players.
One weird thing about the recent LC's is how despite most of them being restrictive, they just decided to make jade's signature so absurdly broken that its bis for literally every erudition unit in the game because of how unrestrictive it is
in terms of lightcones the misha destruction lightcone released in 2.0 is really good same for the nihility one with black swan and acheron and in terms of the 2.0 f2p lc the destruction one (with SAM on it) is niche but usable , the nihility one can be used on black swan if you already have a lot of EHR and the hunt is really strong on character that have a lot of multi-hit or can do a lot outside of their turns.
@@JustSkii Not sure if Jade's signature is unrestrictive. You have to use basic ATK to use the DEF shred portion of the LC, which only Jade and Qingque uses. Herta and Himeko could've used the LC but she uses their skill all the time. JY's signature LC is still more universal imo because the effects are easier to trigger (use skill/ult to increase next FUA damage).
HSR endgame always manages to keep me back. With most other Hoyo games, I can get my Primogems or Polychrome without much thought needed (save for the Imaginarium, but that’s getting addressed in 4.8). But with HSR, I have to work for it. And that feeling of experimentation, trying new things out, and being rewarded for when everything finally falls into place is so satisfying. And the Stellar Jades you do get from Forgotten Hall, Pure Fiction, and Apocalyptic Shadows are plentiful when you do crack the code and get the gears turning; not to mention all the bonuses from SU/DU having a weekly reward refresh cycle. It really does feel like a Hoyo game where you get as much out as you put in, and the emphasis on experimentation and building more characters to further experiment will always make me excited for future HSR content.
Meanwhile there is me, experimenting with legit 15-20 different teams doing abyss every patch in genshin because an easier floor allows for much more team diversity, while feeling extremely narrowed down and pigeon holed into a very specific team in order to full star the newest endgame cycle of any of the 3 HSR endgame modes lol. I loved how this Pure Fiction was made for aoe, frequent FUAs, invalidating my topaz, ratio, jing yuan and clara (clara because of second wave on first half), basically forcing you into jade, himeko and herta, or to get fucked. ''Fun'' game design my fucking ass lol.
the biggest downside to the endgame content in general is how they cater every aspect to benefit whatever new character is out, it's clear as day at the beginning of this patch where they made every single new piece of content and rotation cater to Firefly, and we can see the exact same thing with Jade. Surprise surprise the new Divergent universe final boss is one that requires you to clear multiple waves, and they give u a free quantum curio and Free Elation and eruditon blessings. i wonder who's that for?
Funny as it is, that one is also perfect for Qingque, mainly if she has C4 where she gets the follow-up attack. I don't think I ever grinded Simulated Universe as fast as when I just pressed E a couple times to get the damage buff and Ult spammed with Brain in a Vat with her. Those buffs are most of the time clearly targeted toward a character, but I feel like there are always other characters that can benefit from them. Like the Propagation spam in Swarm Disaster and Qingque. Or the Firefly buffs really accidentally catering toward Break/Crit Himeko.
@grimsdol4665 and thats ok? It's fine for a gamemode to make certain characters useless aslong as it makes just as many viable. Especially if the characters that get buff and are amazing in said gamemode are 4 stars/ftp characters.
I think the persistent characterization of hoyo players wanting harder content is extremely inaccurate. A small, vocal subset wants it, but what they specifically want is a means to show off mechanical mastery, which is an extremely hard ask. Instead, "hard" content ends up as dps checks, do you have a specific element checks, can you deal with a specific gimmick checks, rather than a test of mechanical skill or system knowledge.
@SordidusFellatiodivergent universe gives everyone the ability to use every character on their account without having to invest in them, how is it bad?
The obvious way is to periodically increase the endgame levels. So a MOC 14, a MOC 16, etc. The problem with Aventurine was that he was a story fight which "had" to be played, so weaker-casuals had a big push back. But just up the endgame stages. You satisfy those who want harder and harder content, and also don't get in the way of casuals who don't care.
@@catbear128 or Cocolia in apocalyptic shadow who have very high speed & do multiple CC . If you doesn't have Aventurine or Fu Xuan or at least Gallagher E2 just say goodbye to your team .
I hope AS focuses more on Hunt units, because the first one just feels like a re-skin of MoC. Still, i did managed to complete it, just not with a team focused on single target damage
Yeah tbf it's not really meant for hunt specific units it's just a new game mode that emphasizes dealing with new mechanics and working with the conditions laid out.
I did give AS a go with Luka against Argenti. Works out really well when you go for a super break rushdown. A similar, but greater effect can be achieved with Boothill. I also saw an AS run with 4* Dan Heng on Cocolia side, and it worked out surprisingly well. So single target can work in AS. Just need to have the investment and the means to work with the mechanics.
I can’t agree that the current endgame state is “fantastic”. At best it is “content”. The power creep is so bad that all the end game modes can be done with auto battle. When MoC first came out I had to manually play floors 9 and 10 to get 3*. Then it was floors 11 and 12 when MoC expanded. Now it’s easy with the right comp. (Acheron and firefly specifically). The same can be said for PF and AS. The vibe I get from HSR right now is “roll the current banner to clear the endgame”. I understand that this has always been the case, but it feels even moreso as of late. It’s less about personal skill (deciding rotations) and more about having the right character. I haven’t gotten a sense of accomplishment doing the end game modes for a while now. They’re no different than the combat events that we get with patches.
Powercreep is going to be more obvious with HSR’s RPG-like mechanics unfortunately. However, the meta is always changing, which worsens the problem- playing the endgame builds a lot of FOMO in the players because outside of the story, there’s nothing else to do in HSR except for combat.
@@LilGui-ko7hn yeah I agree. The meta is always changing. What’s frustrating is that the new meta/system is specific to the banner. I wish it was more generalized or they rotated effects more often (some weeks favor hunt/nihility etc.).
But surely the solution to those wanting more challenge is precisely to clear MOC 11-12 without using Acheron/Firefly/Banner unit? It is a single player game, so how you want to tackle the content is personal choice. You can't genuinely complain about a lack of necessary skill when you just consider using the few most overpowered units to tackle the content.
@@beepbeeptaxi1 yeah because this team archetype is currently very new. We’ll see what next cycle’s meta is (imo it’s FUA/Acheron-focused, if we’re going by the banners). They always rotate team archetypes every cycle, but failed to consider that Break teams are fairly new to the scene.
@@rowanmales3430 my understanding is that endgame is meant to provide challenging content. Ideally you shouldn’t be able to auto battle the last few stages. If I have to impose my own restrictions then doesn’t that bring up a flaw in Hoyo’s design?
though the endgame itself is well designed, i think every other system surrounding it makes it a very hard sell for anyone that hasn't been an active day 1 player or isn't willing to put in a ton of money on the game, the amount of 5* units required to even start making teams for it is unreasonable, as someone that got in late in the game i've been grinding ever since aventurine's release and still haven't been able to get two full teams for any of the modes, the lack of good 4* choices for either units or light cones makes coming up with teams feel suffocating, and even when i try to test the limits of my current teams i can barely get through two or three floors without running out of time, despite it not being mhy's priority i think the f2p experience is utterly terrible, and anyone starting an account now is in for a horrible experience if they're interested in the end game
Agree. I think this problem is even worse in regards to light cones as you can sometimes get away with a character selector. Most of the free ones suck and if they give you an event one, is only meant to be used on one unit, like "Tomorrow's Journey" being only useful for Robin. So you're basically forced to pull not only for characters, but also their weapons because there's no other way to get the good ones. I say this as an Acheron haver who's forced to run her with Fermata S3 because I haven't gotten a single GNSW since I started playing in 2.0.
@@alejandroalfaro3800 light cones are unanbiguously the worst part 100%, the best free 5* one being for hunt def doesnt help either considering how much that path struggles in the endgame compared to destruction, nihility or erudition too
I just want to thank you for your videos, they are VERY high quality and tend to go very in-depth when it comes to whatever you’re talking about, from power creep to character kits. Props to ya!
My only problem with end game mode is that you can clear AS and MoC with any unit you have as long as you build well but PF is slowly becoming "Pull for this character or you won't get full rewards". Like seriously especially when it's a dot centric cycle it's so miserable to clear
I quit HSR for almost a year because I felt that MOC was like that too. I remember players soloing MOC with blade when he first came out and now he is not considered even between the top 15 characters in the game. Same with Silverwolf. The blessings were a massive buff to the featured characters it felt unfair. I recently came back to the game. While I am still in the process of building my characters, I will not tackle these end-games. I will take things slow and progress on my own pace.
The biggest negative for me is the "character check" aspect of HSR's endgame. Back in 1.0, even if the MOC was made for dot teams, you could still "brute force" clear with non dot teams, but today you can't. Look at AS, which today heavily favours break teams. If you don't have Firefly and/or Boothill, well, good luck lol. I see videos of ppl with eidolon and signature cones for T0 units like Dan Heng IL and Jingliu and STILL they barely clear AS. If this trend keeps going, I don't know if I (as a f2p player) will be able to keep up the pace...
Xueyi falls off a lot without her E6 and if not all of the enemies are Quantum weak though. If only one enemy is Quantum weak, her Skill generates follow-up stacks 50% slower. If you don't have her E6, that's another 33% slower (multiplicative, not additive). Also, her follow-up attacks need E2 for colorless Break, so you will see a massive difference between an E0 Xueyi and an E6 Xueyi. That being said Super Break is still pretty new player friendly, since relic checks are low, and Gallagher + Harmony MC + Ruan Mei is a complete core in and of itself. While Firefly is ideally the 4th unit, you can run just about anyone in that slot. I've seen a bunch of teams easily clear on Prydwen (which only allows E0 limited units from their data) by putting Pela in that 4th slot, for instance.
Meanwhile balance between classes be like : firefly and acheron for 95% content Erudition : dust them off once per 6 weeks for half an hour hunt: ??? I'm current'y playing through sim uni that's supposed to be for Jade(i mean cyclical extrapolation, weekly preset thingy), yet i'm forced to switch to firefly for mid bosses, cuz there's only 1 enemy on the field. And like, isn't it just more efficient to stay on firefly, because she can deal with literally any situation, where as Jade has very big and strong weakness against single target bosses. Edit: same thing happened when i wanted to use boothill for divergent universe, i ran into 3 waves of 5 mobs without phys weakness, and again, it's a clear weakness for boothill, and i was forced to switch to firefly, and yet again, at this point, why would i switch back? it's just more efficient to stay with firefly cuz she can deal with every situation, while Boothill has very big weakness.
I get you. Sometimes I swap to acheron to clear the midbosses just so it is easier to set up runs. But the reason I still swap back to my desired character is simply because I wanted to have fun with that character and see their numbers go up. So although it may not be efficient, it is fun and that's all that matters to me
You do realise Sim Uni doesn't have an action value time limit? I just beat the entire thing (difficulty 5, enhanced difficulty 3) with e6QQ, E0Sparkle, e0Ruan Mei, and E0Fu Xuan. I had somewhat bad RNG and was one blessing off of activating the Gold equation too so I had no Gold equation. If you just accept it will take you a few rounds longer in fights, you don't need to take in the peak meta choices lol. In your example, it will simply take Boothill an extra turn or two since you experienced a wave with lots of mobs. So what? Why is that suddenly unplayable lol.
I hate the fact that Acheron and Firefly invalidates 99% of the DPS that I built. If I knew they were this busted then I would have saved for Acheron and Firefly's E2s and LCs and I would have been set for life. Like there's literally no use for my Blade, Jingliu, DHIL, etc. because Acheron and Firefly are simply better and do a million damage. The only ones spared are my Erudition characters because they are good in Pure Fiction.
@@paulyvii Then you must be new at Gacha gaming. That is literally the standard business model and content creators have been saying since day 1 that supports are more valuable than DPS because of power creep. But, even with that being true, I also have several "obsolete" DPS, and I don't suddenly regret it lol. They carried my gaming trough the first 8-10 months. They have provided value to me. You cannot be seriously suggesting that you would have simply "not pulled" for a DPS just because 1 year later they will become overshadowed?? That would be a year without a decent DPS lol. Sorry to break it to you, but in another years time Firefly and Acheron will be in the same situation that Jingliu and Imbibitor are today. Will you suddenly reject the fact you ever decided to pull firefly and Acheron? No, cause that's stupid. You may as well never pull any character because they will all be power crept in the coming years.
The one thing that just annoys me about HSR is that it has a rlly high dps check which is whatever just need investment for my characters but it also has a sustain check which u basically need to have a 5 star sustain or else u will just die to fast but other than I that I’m rlly happy with end game
I think hsr is more of a support check instead, I was really surprised with the difference of 150 spd tingyun with 180 spd tingyun, her spd alone cut 2 cycles off, or how a 160+ spd huo2 with qpq can battery your team really well. Not to mention 160+ spd pela with wind set can give so many stacks for acheron vs your everyday under 160 spd pela with mixed set.
"which u basically need to have a 5 star sustain or else u will just die to fast" Also, this isn't true. I could still use only Gallagher and Lynx and still be fine.
This is such a great video, I was thinking about how exhausting, expensive and frustrating it is to build up characters. I joined HSR on version 2.0 and the more I played, the more I realized how behind I was. Now, I feel in a constant pressure to pull for almost everybody to build decent teams and even then, I’ve never cleared any end-game content yet. In a lighter note, I can’t stop playing this game, I like it too much
the nessecity of 5 stars when there isnt even 4 star equivalents(even if slightly weaker in some way) to do things is the one that really makes this game not feel worth doing the top end stuff till you get said 5 star....which you need to wait till the banner comes around. ruan mei before and after is such a huge difference. and i dont even know how well things would go if i didnt get acheron as my first limited 5 star on my account.
My problem with endgame is that if you dont have the NEW CHARACTER your experience suffers a lot especially if you have older units cause they keep scaling the hp of enemies. I could BARELY do much of any PF but i got jade and now the only 3 star that alludes me is the last level cause i dont have enough aoe units or argenti, the imaginary phys combo is not great in first half. I beat my first MOC 12 with a Bootcheron Team but only cause weakness break is the big mechanic with trotters this patch for *firefly*, im unsure if ill be able to beat next moc at the same level with the scaling and changing mechanics. im on a constant wheel for trying to catch units up to run into stamina wall.
I think this goes back to HSR's only real problem: lack of in-depth crafting system for relics. Having to build so many characters for endgame wouldn't be so bad if the RNG grind for gear wasn't 10 times longer than leveling and traces. (while sharing the same time resource) If they allowed us to choose substats and "lock out" rolls for a higher, fixed, cost, it would take so much stress off the daily grind. Why can warp gacha have "hard pity" but relic gacha can't? It will let so many more players engage with a constantly evolving endgame. (and before people say it, no, it won't stop the grind for Hoyo to nickel and dime people, any more than QoL with dailies did. You are still constantly going to be gearing new characters, if Hoyo does their job and convince you to pull for them) Side note: I think the Aventurine complaint was because of casual story andies who don't play with optimal teams (double sustain, no sustain, hyper-carry, etc) and so weren't prepared for a boss fight with strict mechanics. Hoyo nerfed pre-Penacony story content, too, so their goal is to make story mode easier for newbies to catch up during the few weeks of a patch. That is where I think a lot of the backlash came from. Endgame players want harder content, casuals just want to enjoy the story. Hoyo didn't strike the balance.
Hoyo is doing their best to strike the balance imo, but they also have to realize that they aren’t going to be able to please everyone. The Aventurine boss fight is just proof that the playerbase can have vastly different opinions, some directly contradicting one another.
Yeah relic grinding is endless if your luck is suck and that's what I hate the most from hsr. I rather lvl up trace to max when I already have decent relic instead of continue farming for better relic. But now I run out of track of destiny because of it.
people have to accept that the HSR relic system is completely atrocious, its by far one of the most frustrating experiences I've ever had in a game. There's soooo many layers of RNG and you have to go through them 6 TIMES FOR EVERY CHARACTER, its completely insane
I didnt play star rail the first few days it was out because I figured "turn-based combat? Like pokemon? Lame" but then I tried it anyways and I was completely blown away and sold for life
Dude you gotta play persona then, it's literally what this game took massive inspirations from. I never like turn based games primarily because of pokemon too, it was very boring and stale to me so I was very hesitant to try persona, but the charm of the game and the flow of the game was so good that at some points I genuinely forget I'm even playing a turn based game. Cause of that I got into star rail relatively easily cause I knew they would take inspirations from persona's perfected turn based system.
I like turn based, but HSR is not really a turn based game anymore with every toon having either aoe or blast. Used to manual alot back before the aoe powercreep with units like Selee. But now the game is just an auto battler where after every win I have to read 3 MTG cards and pick one. I came for turn based, not reading cards.
It's very much power crept My 5 day old firefly with 150 break effect with 6-7 lvl talent and only harmony mc does more damage than my fully kitted Dan heng IL team with sparkle
Same exact thing happened to me. My firefly is basically ungeared low level and still outperforms any of my other dps (including my premium dot team I've worked on for almost a year)
That’s the whole point of the endgame. The meta always changes, and what works for you before may not work for you now. In the next patch, Firefly probably won’t be dealing that much damage. Right now, the endgame strongly favors her; but on the next cycle, it might not be the case.
@@LilGui-ko7hn that is a problem. It causes burnout much faster to just keep up with the game, becoming a second job almost. If I were to quit and come back, im more playing catchup than enjoying the game itself.
@@shizhou5809 yeah but that’s why endgame isn’t for everyone; it’s only for players who have nothing else to do and have already burnt through the rest of the content.
I like harder contents, but not the one when it is 80% relied on character check and rng. Game progress feels artificial to me bc once I get the new meta characters or sustain, all "skills" needed went out of the window. End game mechanics are pretty fun and get people occupied, but not when HSR turn based system itself is atrocious, making it too character and rng dependent. Believe me I have played a lot and a lot of turn bases style games.
Honestly it would be a pretty solid game if they release more 4 stars that can mimic the 5 stars in terms of support capabilities and power, just by a little. And if building teams is not too reliant on relics and lcs, most used teams consists of 3 or more 5 stars. I constantly thought of a team idea but to do it I have to get this specific speed, crits, ehr, light cones, and you know how the relic system works lol
My problem is definitely not acquiring resources quickly enough to build out characters. I have several that are now good enough for most normal content but not maxed enough to finish out anything end game.
I just think that these modes should rotate more frequently because having to wait 15 days to really play the game again is relly frustrating. I feel a lack of actual events and content to play and use my characters but overall this best executed game from hoyo
the problem with aventurine was never that he was "too hard", it was that he was a character check. didn't pull the right units ? too bad, you're locked of every content depending on the main story.
@@anwarshadaad1553 yup, and they both get one shot if you don't have a fully built gepard, fu xuan or aventurine (besides still being severely underpowered for this fight, only thing they're decent at is the dice. You'll be chipping at his health for ages)
@@anwarshadaad1553 although to be fair maybe it's my bad for having maxed out my world level by farming my other characters, I hear the boss scaling is completely fucked after TL 60. A lot of them look so much easier even with completely unbuilt characters provided you're below TL50
i think is more skill check, bc i use jing yuan, huohuo, sparkle and ruan mei, only jing yuan hit aoe, and i was able to beat in first try before the nerf, i say it's skill check cause my jing yuan build sucks
Coming from other gacha where the players had to make up an "end game" by themselves(FGO) ,HSR has been great,giving me smthg to look foward to rather than a glorified character collector Only been playing for 2 weeks but having a goal to get to helps kept my engagement with the game
W vid but Aventurine bossfight stuck out cause ive seen many players be enjoying the game at a casual pace and pretty much just playing for story. They were basically locked out of story because the boss fight. I think hard content in endgame is fine, in story/mandatory content it should be relatively tame
The three endgames are fun and engaging and fine, that's my take on it. But there's a fourth, cyclical endgame that gives you (mediocre) rewards, that's either disgustingly easy if you're sane, or disgustingly hard if you're stubborn, and yet I've never seen any videos about it, ever. All I managed to find was random showcase videos. I'd like it to have either more attention so they fix the horribly unfair difficulty. I'm talking about Protocol 6, if that wasn't obvious, I've been mindlessly doing Difficulty 4 instead. I wished this was like a Gold and Gears, or hell, even an enhanced experienced of normal SU when I heard more about it, not a lottery, or a permanent character check. Love your work! Thought the Why no one plays was silently cancelled haha, though it feels like instead of an 'all characters work' situation it's a "They get overshadowed by their 5* equivalents but not everyone have them and budget teams are still popular" which is totally fine, I sure hope the series don't mysteriously come back to life when next version comes with a new free character
i want more of the vampire survivor gamemode lmao, in general those gamemodes are really fun and maybe those could be somewhat added as a kind of endgame too for "comedic relief" between everything else where you dont have to worry about having certain characters and just have some fun
Considering Aventurine's Boss battle, i believe that most people got mad not because of the Boss itself, but the randomness and Energy drain for ALL of your party. I used my Newly build Acheron on that bossfight (as i think most used too) and she was the only one ulting in that fight, because she can't lose Energy. And some people only had one team or two at the time (me included). This "bad design" of a bossfight just showed itself even more on the Divergent Universe. So much they had to remove Aventurine to prevent players from being hardstuck by him...
I totally agree with the negatives here, well done essay. If I would add anything in, would be less primos from endgame content and put them elsewhere in the game while making a full clear of the [CURRENT DIFFICULT THING] give the player a single Relic Piece with fully selectable Type / Main Stat / Substats. Because the people that can't clear it needs the primos the most and those who do clear it already got Ruan Mei.
HSR has a serious problem where all game modes are so biased in favor of new characters that when you don't have them (Or at least someone who fulfills a similar role) it's as if the game punishes you. And this problem gets worse when so much is locked behind limited 5-Stars due to the lack of 4-Star options that fulfill the same role, even if weaker.
7:54 Can we stop saying that there is no exploration in HSR. To finish every sidequest and to collect all rewards it will take days to clear the map just like in genshin. I never understood this argument back in 1.0 and now with Penacony map it's just ridiculous
Like most comments say, the things about HSR end game is that we're able to make different kind of team. Erudition dominate the PF, MoC mostly destruction and Nihility, Apocalyptic shadow for The Hunt. But we are also able to create other classes for each end game. Certainly, for people who lack characters is still a problem but tbh, this type of end game is what is needed for me at least to play the game back and forth.
Pure Fiction to me is the most genius endgame mode to me, and though I can see why vertical investing could be satisfying in MoC, it just doesn't provide the same satisfaction. I just find myself mentally checking out in that mode and look at the increasing damage numbers instead of unique mechanics (Pure Fiction, SU) while killing enemies are less of a challenge than a chore. Hope they can buff 4 stars to get close enough and clear those modes like in genshin
I hope they keep adding other modes like PF and the new weakness break mode. By making modes where the goal isnt strictly "damage" more units will be useful. Modes where characters can only defeat units by healing, debuffing, clearing debuffs, etc. Would be great for character variety and to curb powercreep.
I'm fine with endgame, you don't need to clear everything perfectly to still enjoy it. I just don't like a few things... for example having something like 18/46 rewards in the last mode because everything past that amount is "clear in hellish mode stage 50 in two turns where every mob has 1000% hp/atk and OS a character on each move", or pure fiction where they put a side with quantum/physical weaknesses because Jade and Argenti are rated up (and you alternate 12/12 and 9/12 because you have a squad that annihilates one rotation but not the next...).
@French_Hellmo Technically Har has a Paimon. Is just... this Paimon is actually better. Yes I'm talking about Pompom. Or March 7th if you wanna argue about it.
I dunno if it's just me, and maybe it's because I don't have Kafka, Acheron, and Black swan. But I regularly find PF (despite having e2 himeko and e0 argenti) much harder than MoC (and apocalyptic shadow too so far). Only exception being Adventurine MoC, and even then that was mostly due to him just up and deciding to nom a couple turns with his dice game thing. But y eah, the number of times I look at PF resonance or whatever and feeling like the game is giving me the finger for not having dot comps with kafka and/or BS seems high.
I've got some issues with HSR's endgame. All the SU modes are fine but can get repetative and also if you really want to go to the insane difficulties it starts to rely on luck and you just knowing funky gimmicks. Aside from that the main endgame modes kind of.... feel the same, if you have a really strong blast team its kind of just optimal for all 3 gamemodes. This rotation I did AS, MoC and PF with THE EXACT SAME 2 TEAMS. 1 acheron team and 1 firefly team, they got max stars in all 3 of the gamemodes on full auto battle. Yes these teams are fairly well invested but I should not be able to just use these 2 in all 3 modes and get away with it
I really want a gamemode that doesn't doesn't necessarily reward doing as much damage as quickly as possible, something where more defensive playstyles can shine. In theory this is SU expansions, but the bosses there do get tougher the more you stall on them. Also, Apocalyptic Shadow and Pure Fiction feel too much like a "latest character check", which has always been there but it's a lot less noticeable in Memory of Chaos. Aside from that, my experience with endgame has been fantastic. Been playing since release and think my first full 36-star clear was on version 1.4, and haven't dropped since fortunately.
If we use critical thinking, the ppl who send complaints about a story boss being too hard are NOT the same players who ask for hard rewarding content. Also when you have a sharp difficulty spike in a required story mission, after the entire quest was just dialogue and fodder, thats gonna lead to that issue
F2P since day 1 and still F2P. I fully clear every end game mode with max stars. HSR lets you do this if you are willing to put in the time. One thing I really love about the end game is that it gives you time. A new version of PF just dropped, and it favors dot? Let me build a dot character. MoC really like quantum? Let me build a quantum. Full clears are possible with 4 stars. Makes the game amazing and gives me the time each release to build a character/roster.
Honestly the complaint that the different game modes force players to build units isn't really as big of a deal as players make it out to be, part of that complaint (both for Imaginarium Theater and HSR's endgame) is a mindset thing on how players approach these game modes in the first place. Yes as a new player it's going to be tough, and that's a fact, but it's not like you're being forced to complete them in the first few months. The pressure to do so is a self-inflicted thing. Even with all your friends going around posting their perfect clears, it's ultimately down to the player if they want to be bothered by it, especially if it's called "endgame content" for a reason. It won't really be considered endgame content if you can clear it with a half-ass built team in the first month would it? By then if it's something easily cleared the moment you begin playing the game, then it's not really any different from the combat you have now open-world or in events. Take that from someone who waited for two years to 36-star the Abyss in Genshin or as someone who hasn't full-cleared any of those game modes in HSR. Yeah it's frustrating at times, but then you take a step back and realize you're not actually missing out on much rewards-wise, and then you move on with your life. It only sucks to think about how you can't clear it if you let it get in your head. If anything that extends to Swarm Disaster and Gold and Gears. If you can clear them first try, good. If you can't, those game modes are not going away anytime soon, come back and try again the next time around.
a major issue i have is the amount of 5 stars that have come out its so hard to farm them up like my list of working on characters is so long because it takes so much to level up 1 trace
I think my only complaint with the end game is I wish there were a single target equivalent of Pure Fiction to make The Hunt characters have a place they truly thrive. I didn't get Boothill because I didn't know what content he really shined in. Same with Ratio Topaz cores, i just feel like I could be using DH IL or Archeron to blitz content that would take longer with single target characters in MoC and PF. Hopefully we get something like that eventually.
Boothill shines in MOC and Apocalyptic Shadow. He can literally one shot enemies and Apocalyptic Shadow values toughness dmg and Boothill has the highest toughness dmg in the game right now even above Firefly.
I think the issue with any comparison between Genshin and HSR is that at the end of the day - they are completely different genres of games. Don't get me wrong, I am fine and happy that Genshin is finally releasing and expanding their available endgame, and this is me speaking as a primarily casual player of both games. I don't really enjoy combat in the sense that I have poor reflexes (I was never a "gamer" growing up - my favorite games are essentially casual adventure/mystery games, puzzle games, and collecting games - like pokemon; my first "mainstream" game was Portals, and even that made me an anxious mess just facing turrets), so by far, my primary reason for playing both games are story/lore and character story driven. As a result of that, I try endgame modes only as far as I can get, and then I give up and take my primos/jades and go. I think the reason we've gotten so much more endgame and so quickly in HSR is that at its base, it is essentially a turn-based RPG, and as you said, there's only SO MUCH you can do unless you have new modes to try out. For me, this still works out because I treat the new modes and battles like "puzzles" I have to solve. With limited resources, how do I get through this? And that fits into why I still play HSR even though a couple of my friends (who first got me into Genshin and HSR) has quit HSR, despite me not being invested in combat whatsoever. I approach the "fights" in HSR like puzzles to be solved. I find that once you figure out the mechanism or approach to a certain boss, you can get through it (even with the most questionable of teams) and some luck based on RNG and how enemies attack my units. That and Acheron. The answer is ALWAYS Acheron. LOL (I lucked out in getting her on her first run since I fell in love with her character in the story.) Of note, my favorite "endgame" (although you didn't really call it that) is actually SU honestly, and that's the one that I think they can eventually port into Genshin as a semi-random combat dungeon/domain runs, which may be fun. They already used to have those random domains in Mondstadt-Inazuma (with not as many but still SOME in Sumeru) that I missed in Fontaine. I'm really glad that the divergent universe allows us to farm for planar ornaments and such more directly though - that was my least favorite thing in HSR - the fact that I had to do extended runs in order to get them. The lack of open-world exploration is a big part of why Genshin remains my primary Hoyo/gacha game (my mission currently is the finally complete the Sumeru dessert world quests and figuring out all the puzzles on my own), but HSR is something I'll play enough of to build my characters and progress the story. The fact that part of my focus in both games is finding pretty places to take pictures in says everything. And I love that I can climb up buildings and mountains in Genshin. It's how I got on top of the Palais before I ever found the airship that brings us up there. Finding the best route to scale up tall buildings is an extra bit of fun. LOL
Ngl as much as I love the endgame of hsr and all of the combat, I wish there were more leisure stuff too Maybe owning and decorating a room in the express or playing card games/gifting stuff to characters we own Hsr's characters are so interesting and multifaceted (cough Aventurine especially cough) I would love to see more of them outside of the story
While I love the new endgame modes for HSR, one thing that does bug me is how hard locked team synergies are. For example firefly basically NEEDS ruan mei to be good. It seems this is being fixed with the new March 7th, but I feel this rigidity in team members for multiple teams, especially when the best in slot supports are 5 stars almost exclusively makes this game harder to play long term than their other faster paced games. It makes is especially difficult if your favorite units don’t work with the team you’ve already built. I hope they add much more diversity but without more viable 4 star alts I don’t know if I’ll play without getting burned out😅.
11:07 "You can't just whip up something in a couple of days and there you go." *Flashbacks to when I somehow got Lynx built to an above average state in 1 day so I could beat Aventurine in the story* Okay I know that's a very niche case but that point made me think of it and I wanted to share-
The Boss Adventurne thing reminded me a lot of when Azhdaha was introduced to Genshin. I absolutely loved that he was a boss that forced you to respect him, with his area coverage and special mechanics, and make sure you did the most you could in his vulnerability periods and it was actually a fun fight that felt challenging like Souls games bosses where you have to pay attention I always used shields since 1.0 because I loved Noelle so I wasn't bothered by his shield mechanics, but he still hit hard enough that I couldn't just ignore him and button mash like with Childe or the Wolf. But I saw a lot of complaints about how difficult he was and people saying if you didn't have a shield you were boned, but I had other friends who didn't use shields and I also fought him without shields on multiple occasions and it wasn't that much different, you just have to actually dodge attacks and pay attention to the field and actually play better Nowadays, of course, characters are strong enough that he's not much an issue anymore, but back then it was a fun time
I like the variety of end game mode but I don't think they will be able to add more unless they come with a solution to fit more than just 3 rotations per patch
As long as they continue to push for roster variety, there will be a reason to build and pull characters. They can slow down a bit with the new characters but i dont want them to slow down pushing for different mechanics and turbulences.
I do wish Genshin had more general end game stuff besides Abyss (I LOVE Imaginarium Theatre but it's very niche), but Genshin has does a great job at letting you play whatever characters you want/like and still be able to max reward things if you play well and use the right reactions when needed. In HSR it truly feels like a FOMO fiesta trying to force you to pull the new character or ur fucked for the end game content.
On thing I would like in Star Rail is to add something like a bonus kill or effect to the team if you run two characters of the same path similar to the elemental resonance in Genshin.
For me the worst part of HSR is the end game content. I feel like MOC, OF and AS are al the same shit "Kill the enemies really fast" type content, which HSR is being flooded by. I just wanted diversity :/
I genuinely wouldn't have a problem if I needed to kill them in a time limit........but the problem is that I feel like I'm MAINLY FIGHTING THE TIME LIMIT......at least in MoC/AS the enemies can kill u, but in PF, ur just fighting the timer
i had no idea they nerfed aventurine bossfight, what a shame, i just beat it two weeks ago with my worst possible team because i was too lazy to actually swap them (firefly with no break supports, argenti, boothill and i think natasha even tho i have huohuo)
Are you going to make ZZZ videos? I'm kinda interested having a more indepth guide as to what exactly each role has to do, what rotations are important to do, what characters are good etc etc.
Star Rail is beloved because it does so many more things right than most other games, end game included. My only gripe is that every mode allows a certain character archetype to shine but all towards DPS checks in the end. I think we also need an endless mode or defensive-oriented endgame as well because real talk it's a meme that you only pull 2 limited sustains and then never another one for a reason. It would be extremely unique and also give people whose favorite characters are defensive types a chance to shine if they made a survival endgame too which focuses more on living than dealing tons of damage.
Most hoyo players suck and then moan things are to easy but get outraged when it's even remotely challenging.... what a toxic community I love these games but alot of the community is just.... sadly toxic
I started to play star rail in 1.2 and ever since I got at least single new 5 star in each version and I'm F2P in 2.4 I'm trying both Jiaoqiu and Yunli and for 2.5 Feixiao my current stats are kafka E0S1 - 1.2 fu xuan E1S0 - 1.3 topaz E0S0, jingliu E0S1 - 1.4 huohuo E0S0 - 1.5 ruan mei E0S0 - 1.6 black swan E0S1 and tried to get sparkle lost 50/50 - 2.0 acheron E0S0 - 2.1 robin E0S1 - 2.2 firefly E1S0 - 2.3
I really enjoy the difficulty of the endgame, but i am abit worried that E0S1 5 stars will become mandatory in the future. For now i am able to 12star everything wiht my E0S0 5stars. Aslong as i can keep up with just the monthly pass as a day one player i wont complain.
Tbh, the lack of DPS 4 star light cones that supplement crit stats is concerning, I do agree. Support 4 star LCs have fine enough options. Getting crit momentum on the other hand can be a genuine pain.
End game right now is just 80% RNG and character check, that is the requirements to beat it. Game progress feels artificial bc of that. To be honest not the kind of "harder contents" that I am looking for.
If you don't care about fully completing events and game modes, you can disregard this comment, but as a F2P gacha player who REALLY likes to get every bit of free resources one can muster through just playing, Honkai Star Rail's endgame feels more balanced towards either passionate, engaged and/or lucky players and whales, compared to some other gacha games, namely Fate Grand Order. I engage endgame content as a puzzle I must solve, and in Star Rail's case I always feel I'm missing something, and it's not a good feeling, because I also feel it's not entirely my fault. Due to my poor optimization skills and my lack of interest in online guides, Honkai Star Rail's complexity and difficulty ceiling feels very high compared to FGO's. In FGO you can count on a friend's support on 99.9% of fights, and you can have duplicate characters if you choose one from a friend's support list. Thus, meta characters are almost always available through the support list, even if you don't like spending money on the game, and from the early stages of your playing the game. This allows fresh new players to engage in endgame battles with some hopes of succeeding even with a subpar roster, sometimes by borrowing a unit capable of solo'ing the entire fight from a (whale) friend, although requires a rather high skill level in order to pull off such feat. Skill expression is also much higher in Honkai Star Rail, but it's also such a complex game on the numbers (stats) side of things, so full of expensive builds that you can be lacking on a number of fronts, which cannot be easily remedied. FGO is more player-friendly, you need little time and resources in order to have a working solution to each problem you can encounter. Honkai Star Rail instead puts more emphasis on developing one's characters by releasing endgame modes that can only be completed by spending a lot of time and resources building the best team for the situation. On FGO I was fully clearing endgame contents in about a month since I started playing; on HSR it's been a year and I've never completed MoC and never achieved 3 stars on the last stage of PF or AS, and I wonder how long it's gonna take before I can fully complete these modes. There is simply not enough Trailblaze Power for me to properly farm for my characters.
I joined HSR less than 2 weeks ago and still progressing through story. Just relic farming for good base stats has killed most of my Mats but I love this game. First gacha I can't mindlessly auto (yet) but im enjoying the combat and hitting a Yunli counter activates a very special neuron I didn't know I had.
Best part of star rail endgame is that it exist and gives me a reason to log in and play the game unlike another gacha game we all know and love(kinda)
I don’t really mess with simulated universes stuff I like to use my team to see what numbers they can put out without game mode amplifiers makes me feel better about investing into a character seeing them doing numbers without stuff like blessing or mocking buffs
I'm somewhere in the middle, I am a day 1 player but I'm entirely f2p, and I'm incredibly picky with which characters I pull for and I heavily prioritise appeal over meta So while I love having endgame to work towards I always found myself frustrated due to not having the meta characters like jingliu during her peak, acheron, ruan mei especially My frustration was further validated when I managed to get lucky and complete the premium ip3 team with robin and only since then I've been able to get 12 stars here and there but I still struggle because even when my premium team clears in two cycles my free to play jing yuan team can barely eek out 8 cycles because I don't have nor want sparkle Maybe it's a skill issue, I don't know, but I have put in effort to learn for sure and it still feels like I'm gimped
Ah yes, the Endgame "roll the current character to clear" Content. Where you have to deal with bigger and bigger HP sponges. It sucks. If you can afford spending money - sure, you'll have a good time I guess, you'll be "motivated to upgrade the characters you pulled". If you can't - sucks to be you. Especially with Pure Fiction, it's the absolute worst. "Oh but herta and himidko" yeah, cool, on the one side you can use herta, good luck getting Himeko, a standard 5*. If you didn't pick her as your free on a 300th pull because you were smart and picked Bronya instead back in the day - there's no guarantee you'd ever get her. I don't have Argenti on my account yet, so it took me some time to clear this PF, because a lot of enemies just say "fck you" to Clara and other physical units are single target.
I do not consider biweekly currency grinds endgame, still waiting for more content like simulated/divergent universe because that is an actual endgame contender MoC, PF and AS all do not feel like they need me to engage at all, throw auto play on and grab your stuff. Gold and Gears high Conundrum and Divergent Universe's Threshold Protocol are the type of content that keeps me playing, that keeps me raising and gearing characters. Without those I feel like the game would get stale really fast, since everything would lack the difficulty to warrant striving for better stats, which would discourage me to spend my fuel
i think her is perfectly fine with 3 alternating modes and with how divergent universe basically replaced simulated universe and that getting expansions on its own. i think more than 3 alternating modes theyll start to do a little too much because apocalyptic shadow came at a big surprise. im hoping they wont add a 4th mode anytime until 2025 to let apocalyptic shadow marinate. and if they even wanted to release another mode in 2024 then please release Cosmic Warfare out of CBT3 jail 😔☝️
the endgame becoming more and more difficult while i as complete ftp still struggle to build my old characters and now i need to build more and more. i just started to ignore most of the high end content bc of this, i give it one shot - can't win? fuck this, it's not worth my time. although it's really upsetting when so much new content almost require acheron to complete. my kafka and jingyuan can't do shit in current meta
My main thing I didn't like about endgame mode is that it is painful to not have most 5 star harmony since most of the time, harmony character has more value than dps, which can lead to fomo. I remembered trying to do the recent MoC on my main account and my f2p account where I was easily able to beat it on my account since I have the top tier atm dps E0S1 Acheron and E0S1 Firefly. While on my f2p account I recently gotten Firefly and didnt really have another dps I can use since I didnt like using FuA and I dont have DoT so I hae to use my E0S1 Jing Yuan since Argenti was being an ass. Then I got Ruan Mei as well and she basically saved my account since I originally had E1 Robin and that it no other support. She just boosted my dps character for example like my E1S0 Blade who only did like 20 or 30k to 50 or 60k when I use Ruan Mei with her. I knew she was broken I didnt know she was that broken. So Tldr it painful to not have Ruan Mei on your account.
For a newer player its probably super confusing and hard to decide which end game mode to focus ur resources in. It might even cause them to build too many units. If I had to give one advice to a new starting player. Build a unit that can cover 2 or more of the end game content. Focus on 4 then 8 units at TB 55 and above. Make sure that the units you've chosen to cover for the end game modes all have 1 common end game mode. Always go for purple relic eith good stats over a shitty 5 star one. Traces must be 8 first on that character and all 3 core traces unlocked before focusing on improving relics.
So basically aventurine pre-nerf is still a badge of honor or something. Welp. *cleaning my badge of honor* thank you natasha. Without you there is no way my jingliu could beat that degen gambler.
While the variety is nice, I feel like the unit releases are lagging behind the amount of stuff you need for endgame (like, needing more break supports, the ability to create more then one dot team and also cheap options etc…)
My only gripe with HSR's endgame is how long it now takes to get a new rotation in those modes. For example if someone enjoys PF more than AS or MoC they now have to wait 6 weeks for a new PF rotation and at least for me after I full cleared a one of the modes I go through them a couple more times with some janky teams but not on repeat. I'd like if they cut the rotation time in half even if they half rewards as well.
