The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello 

"Unwanted celibacy predicts misogynistic attitudes" is paraphrased by Jim Morrison as "women seem wicked when you're unwanted" in People Are Strange.

This video proves you shouldn't be allowed to leave a comment unless you've watched at least half the video.

The problem is that in the internet age we more lonely than ever. People cannot socialise any more because there is no 'third place' any more, in addition to home and work. In fact, with more people working from home than ever, people now only have 'one place' in their lives, the home. Not surprising that anxiety and depression are increasing.

Great guest and interview. I particularly appreciated the combination of a scientific and humane perspective on incels from William.

The problem with villainizing an entire group of people is that a big chunk of them will internalize it and become the bad guys. Compassion and civility go a long way.

It is a complete misnomer to equate incels to far right and white in ethnicity, this runs the gamut of all socio economic and racial lines.

Further proof that Michael Fassbender is both multitalented and ageing incredibly well

My fear is that Ash, and people of her ilk (both male and female) aren't really actually concerned about male problems.

Can we please just not overlook the economic and cultural conditions of today. (From the UK perspective), Many pubs, clubs, centres for meeting people, connecting, being outside your comfort zones have been closed down, whether you're in the camp of this is deliberate or whether the young are just genuinely wanting more healthier lifestyles, we've pushed all of the "real world" stuff online, and online is the most toxic place you can be now. (I get the hypocrisy of me saying this while online, but I stand by it). Ash is 100% right to call out banning dating ups. The entire societal model which is a for profit system which incentivises people/companies to extract as much profit from the world as humanly possible, in part thanks to tech has now allowed us to start harvesting up human emotion, connection and so on which is just a sick model that is destined to failure (I hope).

I am fairly certain that 'kindness' never led to a right swipe. Online dating is the new dating, and love it or loathe it, being physically attractive is the first barrier. Y'all can be as kind as fuck only after crossing that bar.

"mens nental health" can seem like a cliche but but It is because it is such a screaming health crisis. Great conversation

Ridiculously interesting interview! Absolutely no idea of even the term ‘ incels’ - a ‘must watch’ for any parent with a boy navigating and growing up coping with, to me what looks like a very alienating and competitive social environment in teen years. Particularly schools - compounded by relentless expectations and hierarchies from the overly competitive GCSE/A level years. Massive pressure on young people as they grapple with all of this!

Very foolish to hurl insults at groups which one knows nothing about.

something that also gets maligned is the fact that all social interaction, but especially dating, is not an innate skill everyone is born with, it’s a learned skill like anything else. it took me doing the uncomfortable thing and forcing myself to go out and talk to people to get good at it. but i also didn’t inhabit a community that actively denigrates any attempt at growth, so it’s easy for me to say “you just need to practice!”

Done him dirty on the “He’s the expert on incels”

This interview should've been titled, "I'd Rather Talk About Women's Issues Than Incels." Too bad. I'd hoped for a deeper dive...

I completely disagree with subsidizing egg freezing. Having a child is a privilege, not a right. Taxpayers shouldn’t pay for that, and honestly, it’d be best to create a society (culture and economy) where people feel that they can have kids in their 20’s and early 30’s, rather than waiting till 35-45.

Thank you for the video/interview. 40+ year old man. Never had an actual relationship (short/long term). Never kissed. Never had any physical sexual experience. At most, have held hands (more than 10 years ago). Work full time in fairly comfortable job (non managerial) and look ok (but skinny). Regular exercises for health reason. From what I can tell, probably biggest turn off for most women is that I live at home with the folks and no friends, other than work colleagues. Have tried dating apps, but like Ash - feels too cold and "commodifying" (if that's a way to describe it). Plus my heavy anxiety just gets in the way. Although, I'm not totally against it (apps) - just not for me for now. It did work for me a long time ago, in terms of meeting someone and going out. It would be nice to be in a long term relationship, but at the same time I sometimes just want to, you know - have some fun (if you know what I mean). Unfortunately, I can't do that. I don't have friends to meet others and I cannot just go to a club or bar. It does terrify me when my folks are no longer around.

I think its always simplistic for married people to dismissively say, be more social, etc. it just doesn’t always work, It IS very hard to meet people, it is very hard to online date. I don’t have an answer, but Ash is defo in the Smug Married Camp

The failure of society is that we expect people to act nice, behaved and polite, but we also emphasize a "each one on its own" mentality. When we don't show solidarity and empathy, those young men won't learn to be empathetic. We want people not to go sacking neighboring villages looking for mate, but how do we want that to be if don't build a way away from that? Ultra-individualism begets nihilism. If a man wants women to care about him, he should start caring about women, they are people and they deserve it too, not just him and his in-group.

Missed a huge factor in the fertility rate conversation. Can you ignore the economic and environmental hellscape we live in?

I think there's a sort of Fernando Torres effect. Football is a confidence game, Brian. Failure to score leads to a lack of confidence in your ability to score. Which leads to you failing to score. Which leads to a lack of confidence. Before you know it you're in a vicious regress. If this becomes very severe this can end up in a prolonged goal drought, despite all the great work you're doing round the box. With most men this eventually ends. A drunk girl exercises poor judgement at a wedding. A depressed woman in a hotel bar inexplicably thinks that you look like the lead singer of Soul Asylum. You move to New York, where making the first move is not an issue. But for some of us it goes on for four seasons before you're sold to Chelsea and even then - where once there was a gilded youth now there is a broken haunted man.

It’s a result of how human interactions have moved away from “real life” and into virtual/online spaces. People have fewer friends than in previous decades and they hang out with those friends much less than in previous decades. Most young people regardless of gender or orientation have little to no hobbies. Most young people spend their days at work and their free time on the internet - RU-vid, Instagram, Netflix, gaming etc

This is only going to get worse.

Women prefer a partner with a sexual history.. i don't think most men do.. not for a long term partner

Vikings were incels, I wonder how historians into that period would respond to that claim. A claim without it seems no research behind it. And Chagnon, I would be careful using his data. He manipulated the Yanomami into violence, it went up in the region he was in, he gave gifts to one group to make another group angry etc. This is a pretty common criticism of his work.

I hate how ash came into this video with a lot of preconcieved notions and attacks an entire group for actions of a few individuals. Completly unproffesional and childish behaviour, toxic feminity at its finest...

I love how wveryone not mainstream is allegedly "far right."

Very interesting to receive so much attention. The expert seems to have actually researched this scene. It is all the more astonishing that neither public discourse nor research has noticed that the key property is misunderstood. Involuntary celibacy is a second or higher order effect. It is about hopelessness. Younger people without hope naturally focus on the deprivation of sexual experience while self-resonance effects occur incessantly in the networks. Misogyny, racism, identity-generating cult formation, addictive behavior, group phantasms and the "rope thing" are apparently symptoms of the human organism in the absence of hope. To date, there has probably been little opportunity to study hopelessness in large numbers of individuals across age and gender groups that are not organized along ethnic lines and are all interconnected. I can report unequivocally from my own research: Sexual intercourse does not help at all with hopelessness.

This man is among the most reasonable and well-spoken advocates for a male perspective. And everything he had to say that didn't immediately line up with her preconceived view the world she simply dismissed without much of any thought. This was a really depressing interview to listen to.

I think he has an interesting point about the apps. It’s worth realising that the medium of apps itself isn’t uniquely more alienating than any other medium like social media or film. The specific reason why it’s bad is because it is a medium, just like social media, that exists specifically to profit off your alienation, rather than aid you or engage with the Masses in a solidaristic manner.

interview: dating apps, commodification, rejection, mating market, cross-sex mumbo jumbo me: being alone is not so bad after all

Try getting on any dating app, and the incels are correct: women go for height, looks, status/education, and perceived wealth. If you are not in the top 10-20 percent, forget the apps. So long as nigh all dating now begins on apps and/or social media, the superficial selection will remain.

I'm an inseb and was hoping to hear about this guys research and low and behold the beautiful woman hijacked the conversation and talked about woman's problems. Amazing, us inseb can't even have this conversation!

A very small study was conducted in the US where 63.6% of self-described InCels were White & Hispanic (compared to 78.2% of the US population) and 44.7% were left-wing (compared to 38.9% right-wing) so the idea that this is a Fascistic subculture seems like wishful thinking.

Ok, cards on the table, I love Ash. But this was a baaaaad interview. Ash's POV seem to be nothing more than anecdotal, throughout the whole interview. She kinda self acknowledged this when she talked about her fake reddit account, you could almost see Costello's eyes rolling. I think he probably anticipated and hoped for a more scrutable engagement with his text, rather than 'my friends tell me they want ....'.

You guys are the best. I will share your content to people likeminded

Genuinely interesting conversation.

Thank you guys for being an alternative source of real information.

I’m just starting to watch your video, but already, by your introduction, I hear and assumption that ordinary social and romantic life is assumed “healthy”, when in my own experience with online apps and websites and meeting other people, I realize that I’m not the only “dysfunctional” person. So your introduction sounds like it compares the dysfunction of incel psychology to healthy social relationships when in the lived world, the people you meet aren’t necessarily “healthy” themselves either. Let’s be honest, sex, relationships and intimacy are influenced by the new cultural norms we’ve come to accept with dating apps and popular culture which is heavily influenced by advertising and porn.

Being able to have sex and not being able to have sex are very different things. "Femcels" aren't touched or attention starved. They may be unhappy but they aren't going through the same thing

Topics like this need a much more open-minded interviewer. A shame because he's really good.

Thank you for the truth I Support you❤

'Incel' is basically a misandric gendered slur, unless the man/boy describes themselves as an incel. People talk about micro aggressions and gendered language and then in the next breath use the term a 'incel'.

The most shocking thing about this whole discussion is that people like Ash had no compassion for these types of men in the first place

Fascinating discussion and bonus points for cramming the word Eudaimonia in.

Great interview and really interesting

This is one of the most captivating conversations I've heard in a long while. You both did so well, thank you.

I am Autistic I have never had a girlfriend but I like women and have female friends so just because I lack the looks,social skills and finances to attract the opposite sex does not make me a monster!

Finally at 1:34:45 he finally mentions hypergamy.

Fascinating discussion. I really learned a lot. Thanks.

great guest, super insightful

Why do you ask a guy with a PhD. in evpsyc about Drake and whatever other guys name is beef ? Don't you think that's a waste of William's precious time?

Haha such a focus on misogyny without mention of misandry, what a surprise

This is so darn interesting!!! Thanks for posting!

This was one of the most entertaining talks so far. More research needs to be done on this topic.

While im compasionate to womens broader problems with violence in dating, I really don't understand Ash's logic on women not being agentic because of the fear of sexual violence. If the logic is basically "I won't pursue any man because he might be violent" surely the same would hold that "Any man pursuing me might be violent" - so why would the expectation be on the man to be agentic when he is told not only will you be perceived as potentially a rapist by the woman, but the act of you even approaching her could be perceived as predatory or threatening? Surely in that scenario, men being the agentic ones leads to a selection bias where men more willing to ignore the comfort of women are more likely to engage with them than men more respectful of their boundaries? It almost feels like an excuse to keep the status quo, as its unquestionably easier to be the one being pursued, but based on current societal beliefs, Codtello is absolutely right that its more important than ever for women to be agentic if they are actively seeking a partner. Men are now rigourously instructed that anything other than the most enthusiastic consent makes you a rapist, and that carries throughout the dating process, and unless a woman clearly indicates that she wants you to engage, approaching is perceived as a violation. I genuinely think the idea that you might be called a predator/creep for approaching a woman is now a much greater fear for most men than simply being rejected. This is even more true in the comparison Ash tries to make, because a woman initiating the interaction puts herself in no immediate danger - she has the entire rest of the interaction to judge the mans character and whether she wants to continue it - meanwhile for men the danger is the immediate risk of being perceived as a creep for engaging. I'm genuinely trying my best to be compassionate and see this from a womans perspective, but I just cant find any logic in it, I'd love if someone could tell me what I'm missing here

it feels that for many to be just wanted is not enough, people are depressed because they have no future and actual relationships, from the lack of trust and intimacy. it's important to know that gender does not define your morals

Lovely talk!

Great video 👏🙏

I really recommend ‘Sex at Dawn’ even if you’re not up for being sexually open within a relationship. Revolutionary psychology suffers from ‘flinstonisation’ - the present state of things is projected back into the past and a past or assumed genetic make up is fabricated to explain the present. The study of indigenous groups which have been isolated from agricultural societies and some of our closest relatives such as bonobos throws up some pertinent questions about how much we assume to be part of our nature based on the particular cultural context we’re living.

To quote Jonathan Richman "true love is not nice".

Fascinating interview.

This hits hard, to be honest. I never write about this online, as it's embarrassing, but as a 5'4" neurodivergent 39-year-old slightly overweight (but working on it) guy, I find it so difficult to get with women/find a relationship. Even though I have plenty of friends, including women, this is such a fuckin' lonely place to be in. For me, it's the companionship and love that I miss over the sex (which I'm not all that bothered about). And while I'm technically 'involuntarily celibate', I abhor the stereotypical incel types that come to mind when you think of the term and want absolutely nothing to do with them. I'm a feminist and pretty much a socialist (teetering between the most left version of social democracy and socialism), doing a job I absolutely love; I've got a great social life (I'm not lonely in that respect); I'm told that I am warm, friendly, approachable, intelligent, etc. But, damn, this is so difficult, and I really don't know where to turn to, as this loneliness hurts *a lot*.

Excellent interview Important information 👏👏👏👏

Honestly Ash just comes across like she objects to this guys opinion because it feels icky to her to label her own preferences as tangible identifiable things because she doesn’t want to be seen as shallow.

This was so interesting 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

This is so fascinating! This makes me look at this in a completely new way, are there any good counter theories to this, or have they more or less mapped what is going on? And more or less just learned that I have several incel friends, but I never knew, because they aren’t “toxic” to that degree and leftist. PS he says body count dose count, do the rest of you agree? I always believed that it was sort of just a thing In movies.

Not enough comment on how class impacts the dating market

Just the fact that they have the term "short king" proves that height matters

Thank you both v. much.

Excellent interview. This man restores some of my faith in psychology.

Ash assumes that what her small group of friends wants applies to millions of other women. As for the comment that no one drives in London, look at Tottenham High Road or Green Lanes and the number of high end vehicles.

Ive definitely noticed that women give off less interest now to me post covid. It is actually a stark difference, mu ex girlfriend broke up with my after covid and I found dating far more difficult after lockdown ended.

So deeply interesting.

Great interview. Is Costello bringing out a book? He seems very well informed

Ash saying that women fear being agentic because they fear the possibility of sexual violence is bizarre. Being Agentic allows women more control and makes them safer. Not sure why she thinks that is more dangerous than an unknown man approaching a woman. Ash is not strong on logic.

As an old incel myself I find Ash pretty desirable. This does not make me hate her but I find her smugness and ‘us and them attitude’ pretty hateful. She totally lacks any compassion or empathy for the people she is talking about.

This was really good.

A woman values other things as well but most of it is after they find the man secure enough. So, security first most of the time.

Have we forgotten the subconscious? People can say they want one thing and subconsciously want something else.

This is an excellent interview. A good mix of research and personal observations. The whole modern dating experience; online, dating apps etc is not a good way to find partners. I'm glad I'm old enough to have missed it, but I despair for young people, both for men and women.

This helped me understand the bear vs man argument from the eyes of men. Thank you. You’ve given me more to think of.

Very informative. 60yr old and still learning, why not? I've that choice, and see many don't. The sausage roll and condom chat had me chuckling!

It's social media, dating apps, and online porn. those things have changed human thinking and there are consequences.

I briefly identified as an incel for one weird period of my life and I didn't hate women at that time. I just hated their dating preferences. I have too many sisters and female friends to actually hate women. I never thought that hating women was a requirement to be an "incel". It's just a situation. You still don't wanna be one though because it's slapping a label on yourself based on a current situation, which can change at any moment. I stopped being one after having a rare spiritual experience once which made me consider, what if there's a 1% chance that the Law of Attraction is real? (not claiming that it is, just claiming that it's better to be on the safe side if you're on the edge). I started changing my attitude. I started receiving compliments more and more. Admittedly, I was already attractive (and knew it) when I was an incel. I just thought something else was wrong with me. If you ever see an incel in real life, give them a compliment. Find something attractive about them, even if it's not their looks. That's what they need. They need hope. We're not giving them that.

Fascinating. I can relate to this on some level. I’m a 38 yr old male and have been single most of my life apart from a couple of short lived girlfriends (about 6 months) and the odd ‘fling’ here and there. I have been referred to as good looking many times in my life, a nice guy and have a solid group of old friends. However, due to my age my friends pretty much all have children and socialize much much less than we used to, so it’s quite lonely. Sometimes I resent this because the meeting friends through friends possibility just isn’t provided for. Now, because of this I have been on the dating apps (mostly unsuccessfully), and I do tend to experience that they are a net negative. So agree with Ash there. So what to do to get myself out there is a question I have fought with a lot. It’s not as easy as it seems and I can’t tell whether this is a) age b) cultural changes, c) locale living in a small market town or d) social awkwardness on my side, trying to figure out how to make new friends and fear of rejection. I could talk so much about this!

This guy's advisor is David Buss, and he explicitly stated he got into this area because of the media attention. Definitely not gonna trust anything he states as "findings"

Thank you for discussing violence, particularly sexual violence, which, for many women, is a serious deterrent to involvement.

Mr Costello not only gets men but understands that there are differences between what men and woman say they want and actually want. Also appreciate how he is able to present information, listen carefully, and stay on track during this discussion.

Great interview! Really challenged some of my assumptions, honestly. I sound like a bot, but it's true.

In high school i talked one of my fellow students a girl in the last year, she looked at me with surprise as she didn't recognise me. I was informed during a pleasant conversation, she sat next me for 5 years, but calmly informed me she hadn't ever seen me, i was intrigued but not that bothered. This is apparently is very common it's just the way it is. Being a man one must to a great extend toughen up it's not personal, I did this toughening up in male only spaces of scouts and other groups which no longer exist as they once did as places for masculinity to develop, feeling emotions isn't necessarily good much of the time. I cry watching a ballet this is fine, feeling emotions over rejection or needing validation though isn't helpful and i believe is destructive to men, wives don't stay married to husbands if they complain. Perhaps the end of male only spaces which have existed up to this point is making it worse for men to develop social skills and control, perhaps or perhaps not we will find out.

His statement about incels being mostly ethnicels refutes almost all lamestream narratives on this issue. Do ethnicels also view white women as racist?

Funny, I just thought about the Andrew Tate thing and how he probably can’t get a “valuable” woman because most think he is a joke 😂

You've never heard of a woman that cares about money? 🤔

My girlfriend told my i was the greatest guy shed ever been with...while she was dumping me to go back to her abusive ex. Do not tell me that women care about kindness because every kind man i know is single and every girl i know is dating an abusive asshole she refuses to leave.

The interviewers anecdotes and natural bias (based on an insular social group perspective) take away from the interview subject's insights. He does well to keep on topic. When dealing with scientists one might try to avoid constant statements such as, "My friends say..." "...when I was on the apps...". Quite enjoyable to watch him gently disarm her assumptions (such as, incels are white people).

A great interview. Thank you! I'm loving Novara

Just ban social media and dating apps

I hate to indentify with the term 'incel' because of the association with misgogynistic men, it is an accurate description of my status. I could probably escape this status if I were to dedicate a lot of my time over the next few years towards improving my diet (I regularly go to the gym but am slightly overweight), learning how to dress well, getting back into the habit of cooking, keeping my room clean, swapping my exceptionally male-dominated hobby (Magic the Gathering) to something that I would probably enjoy less but doesn't repel women, getting on the dating apps, etc. Granted, some of that I should do in any case. But all of that is daunting, so I keep putting it off.