I thought that briefly but I guess it was more of a leap. Or how some birds can barely get off the ground for a few seconds. He couldn't leap again with no more ground underneath.
I like to imagine he was so calm because he knew he wasn't done-for yet, even if his companions didn't. If you don't know that he survives the fall, it doesn't make much sense.
@@GrunesGemuse Well... Have you heard of this guy in WW1 that captured tens of german soldiers with little fights and explained that "The german soldier is very disciplined. If you yell hard enough for it to be convincing, they will listen to you and obey". Guess orcs are very disciplined :p
@@MrUmakemelaff It still looks markedly different from the hand drawn animation cels they rotoscoped over the filmed footage that the majority of the movie uses. Calling them the same feels a bit reductive.
@@MrUmakemelaff I wouldnt say rotoscoping is the poor mans mocap, especially considering when this was made. Not to mention motion capture isnt used very often in 2d animation anyways, one of the many reasons most things are animated in 3D nowadays. Both methods have advantages and pull backs, making them both useful tools depending on what you're trying to make
Love how Aragorn tells the orcs to come no closer and they actually just stop and have an awkward stare down with him lol. Very polite orcs, they respect personal boundaries I suppose
Well, you certainly can’t aptly accuse those Orcs of not being frightening and grotesque enough. This flick did THEM right at least. The Black Riders in this movie are really creepy and well-done too, I’ll note (“Sniff! sniff!! .. . sniff!”).
In the book Frodo says nothing, how he reacted in that moment is not written about.Only a bit later when they are all weeping their hearts like they've forgotten that he is a fookin maia
Considering he's a maiar he probably knew he'd be back I mean he's been there since before the dawn of time and he's probably died multiple times already, most likely he's used to it
@@spencersinclair2239 That was his first time dying, and his last time dying. He was only brought back because of Iluvatar. So if he died before that he wouldn't have been brought back.
I just love how the 70's and 80's artists portrayed fantasy worlds. It is just so different and cool in its own way in comparison to the modern perspective.
I think it’s the colors. They have more of an autumn feel. It’s usually warmer and somehow that makes it feel cozy and vintage. I love the Jackson movies, but I definitely imagined it with a warmer pallet when reading the books, bc the story is old asf so my image had to feel old asf too lol
I like his horrid understanding of what avails him... Gandalf is like, "Oh F**k""! A Balrog. Gandalf knows here before him a foe equal to his power and strength and know less ancient than he.. He fights him from the very montaintop to Morias forgatten abyss
Aragorn: “Come no closer!! I warn you!” Orcs: *stop* Aragorn internally: Whoa…that worked? Aragorn: “Gandalf just tell the Balrog it can’t pass. It worked for me with the orcs.”
Really appreciate the effort to make this back in the day, they did a good job for their time. But this really makes you realize how much Jackson and McKellen knocked it out of the park
Ralph Bakshi is certainly, at least, the bigger pioneer and innovator over frigging Peter Jackson. For example, creators and fans of things like Heavy Metal, Ren and Stimpy, South Park, and Futurama all owe Bakshi a debt. Now, do tell us, WHAT exactly has Jackson pioneered and influenced? .. . zilch!
@@ColeSlaw-rg1gd If you can't see the brilliance of the LoTR trilogy compared to this then more fool you. Meshuggah influenced and pioneered basically an entire genre. And I'd argue Car Bomb is much more intricate and complex, does that mean simply because they came first Meshuggah are superior?
@@ColeSlaw-rg1gd Yes I know who he is. I'll do another analogy using Meshuggah, since they've influenced virtually all heavy music since, I still think Haken delivered an album on a quality Meshuggah have never reached, The Mountain (which is what I regard as the greatest album of all time actually), yet Haken have been nowhere near as influential or pioneering as Meshuggah. You don't have to break the wheel to give a good adaptation that pays homage to the source material whilst taking its own creative liberties. That's the vital and often so difficult task when making an adaptation of anything into anything not just books-films/cartoons. Additionally, the music, acting, direction, pacing, dialogue it's all utter TOP notch in Jacksons LoTR all the way through the trilogy. The standoff with the Balrog, the breaking of the Fellowship, the Battle of the Hornburg, lighting the beacons, gathering the Rohirrim, Aragon recruiting the dead Army, the battle at Pelenor Fields. Too many to count, how can you not be moved by those moments? When I first saw the charge of the Rohirrim over 20 years ago in cinema, I felt like I'd just taken 600mics of acid and was actually there (I was sober) but man the epicness literally overwhelmed me. If you can't see the brilliance, just because se guy did more for adult animation???? Are you ACTUALLY that salty or childish? Boy i bet your gf is loving life hahahahahaha Like me saying Einstein revolutionised the entire way we look at absolutely everything, shouldn't he get credit over everyone and everything else? Or does that not apply because the all-knowing Cole Slaw didn't know it lol
@@ColeSlaw-rg1gd And like Futurama and South Park bear the same entertainment content as LoTR, invent whatever silly cartoon you want and influence as many others as you want. I'll still take the greatest trilogy of all time cheers...
"He staggered and fell, grasped vainly at the stone, and slid into the abyss. "Fly, you fools! ' he cried, and was gone.The fires went out, and blank darkness fell. The Company stood rooted with horror staring into the pit." Tolkien and his darn narrative decisions.
I mean he clearly had Feather Fall prepared because he didn't die. Not unreasonable to assume the DM would let him cast Misty Step, but maybe he forced him to roll a Dexterity save to cast it in time. I can only assume the player had some real life stuff to work out because he returned much later in the campaign and his level gain was explained with off screen shenanigans
You just told these nerds to fuck off and sacrificed your life in a feeble attempt to save theirs and as you plummit to your death you see their stupid faces pop up.
Of course it is! Heck, ROP even made me appreciate the Rankin/Bass-versions even more. (I haven't seen a single episode, but from the looks of it and the PC-obsessed team behind it, it already comes off as looking like a piece of garbage compared to the older animated ones).
HONESTLY, I find the Balrog in the 2000 version to be kind of stupid looking too. THAT one looks to me like a rip off of the Id monster in the 1957 movie Forbidden Planet, only with fire instead of laser energy
@@poplava9668 In the movies the first time Gandalf says 'cannot', and the second time says 'shall not'. Jackson changed it to this in the movies because it had a more profound effect and I think he was right to as it made it so much more iconic.
@@dominickilpatrick8575 bro. See cool thing about books, is that you have your own personal narrative tone playing in your head, that's unique to you. I read it with a sense of command, which is why I found this soft delivery funny. I don't equate a lack of an exclamation point with "simple". If this cartoon matches what you read, well ok then.
When I saw this as a very small child the whole thing (not just this scene) made me a little uneasy. I later realized this was because my young brain wasn't prepared for rotoscoping.
I love how Gandalf is just apparently mildly perturbed at being pulled down into the depths: “Fly you fools.” Gandalf uttered, seemingly for the 80th time that day.
@@tangerinetech5300 I am well aware it was a book long before it was a film not to worry. It's simply that I have never seen this strange 70s adaptation before. ;)
I think "Balrog" means "impulsive need to strike bare butt cheeks of unsuspecting colleagues within a 12 ft radius" in one of the ancient Elvin languages. I think Arwen whispered that to Aragorn in one of the erotic dreams he kept having.
yeah but i heard grandpa, cousin it, and gollum used to get high back in the day. and when thing came over, theres was always a slight of hand, a missing ring, a used razor, and concoctions in a lab.
HONESTLY, I find the Balrog in the more popular 2000 live action version to be kind of stupid looking too. THAT one looks to me like a rip off of the Id monster in the 1957 movie Forbidden Planet, only with fire instead of laser energy
Can valar get drunk ? I have to wonder because there was a crackpot theory that the men in Tolkien's word can't get drunk so I wonder if only certain species got drunk .
Doc Holliday oh my god right?? Some of the voice acting, like John Hurt as Aragorn, was well executed. But in this most important moment Gandalf's voice actor is just not into it at all. So yea, Tommy Wiseau is a good comparison lol
I love how Aragorn is just like “come no closer” and they don’t come any closer and he stands there for a second like “shit that actually worked who’d have thunk?”.
I'm surprised nobody mentioned how odd it is that one man told an army of evil creatures with weapons, "stay back, I'm warning you!", as if he was the definition of power and evil himself.
When I took my kids to see PJ's LOTR in theaters, my daughter was sobbing after she saw Gandalf seemingly plummet to his death. It crushed her little heart. I didn't make her feel better by letting her know he comes back in the Two Towers. Made her wait a year to experience it. We still argue about whether that made me the best dad in the world or the worst.
The worst, had to let her experience it normally. You mended a temporary pain that needed to heal on its own. How old was she when you showed it to her? I would love to show my kid these movies but not exactly sure when. Edit: I'm a rtard and read your comment wrong. You're the best for not spoiling it :)
@@AImighty_Loaf if you watch the movie with your kids, you could start at 12-14 yrs of age depending on how sensible you judge your children to be. After all, those are really dark movies with scary monsters, brutal battles, bloody skirmishes and lots of grief and desperation. that is nothing kids could process/handle easily if they are too young. it would just give them nightmares.
Screaming your lungs out doesn't come forward as confidence really. It's like the small dogs that feel the need to bark like crazy when a bigger dog appears. The loudest I've ever screamed was when someone scared the living shit out of me once. This guy casually stating that the monster can not pass is way more badass than the screaming one in my opinion.
Goes to show how far a good sense of style and directing can take a scene. This was the wild west days of animation so yeah it's kinda clunky but it has a weight and depth that come from the consistent quality of the shots, voice acting, editing etc.
Ralph Bakshi is certainly, at least, the bigger pioneer and innovator over frigging Peter Jackson. For example, creators and fans of things like Heavy Metal, Ren and Stimpy, South Park, and Futurama all owe Bakshi a debt. Now, do tell us, WHAT exactly has Jackson pioneered and influenced? .. . zilch!
While I have an appreciation for Bakshi's work, I feel this scene is very much a failure. It's not just the uncanny effect of the rotoscoping on the Balrog and the Orcs, which one may even choose to see as intentional, so as to make them see otherworldy when compared to the protagonists, but the voice acting is subpar if we have to be honest. Gandalf sounds mildly annoyed, and in regards to weight, both he and Aragorn swing their swords about like they were sticks. In fact, the scene is pretty much a perfect example of "When Rotoscoping goes Wrong": the characters all feel somewhat ethereal and weightless, detached from the background.
To be fair, it’s supposed to be the same type of creature as Gandalf, only corrupted and consumed by its own greed. It is described in the book to vaguely look like a man, not taller than than a man either. However, its form could not be plainly discerned, and it drew itself to a greater height when it stood at the bridge. It also says “it _felt_ larger than it looked”.
Actually... it is pretty much as same as in the book, balrog is actually twice the size of man , not that big as shown in the LOTR movie , so I guess bakshi got it right, but yes , he was more intimidating in the movie
@@JaylukKhan Mayte just put yourself in 1978 and imagine this coming at your face , yes it might look like a very funny rendition of balrog but hell if this monstrosity came in front of you, you’re probably gonna be scared shitless
@@TheLecherling-hu1vu 1. The Balrog's design is exceptionally well made in Jackson's films. From an art design perspective, it's the obvious winner. 2. The Balrog is a mythical creature. How the fuck are you supposed to make it look good AND believable? CGI was the best route they could take and they did it well. I'd choose that over rotoscoping a guy in a Halloween costume. Either way, I don't vehemently hate the 1978 version, and it's very understandable why they had their limits and such. BUT FOR YOU TO SAY "LOL CGI BAD" is just stupid. Grow up.
Honestly, I think both versions look pretty stupid. The one in the 2000 live action film looks to me like a rip off of the Id monster in Forbidden Planet, only with fire replacing laser energy.
@@kylecarracappa2312 I think he means the tone of the voice. It sounds like he's just casually telling to somebody he's standing beside, not shouting it urgently up a crevice.
@@gurvmlk He's trying to lower the self esteem of that Balrog. He knows they can only fly when they glitter and sparkle with confidence. You have to admit she was fantastic when she first came out.
The Balrog, hearing Gandalf's flat, uninspired delivery of his line, just ran out of f***s to give, and stepped off into the yawning chasm, plunging to his doom...
Well they could have, if they were at theiir full power. Read the Silmarillion and/or the Appendix for "The Lord of the Rings". The five maiar had to give up their power, because they were supposed to mobilise the people of middleearth, so humans, elves and dwarves would defeat Sauron by themselves. If Manwe and the other valar truly wanted to destroy Sauron, they would defeated him like they did with Saurons Master, Morgoth. That is why the istari appeared as old men, who were capable of some cool tricks, but they were not even close their former powerlevel.
In the Silmarillion, Balrogs were described as the "generals" of Morgoth's armies of orcs. So, they may very well have communicated "I got this" to a bunch of orcs, who would have in turn recognized a balrog as a kind of mythic hero. The PJ balrog is more monster than a general. Sure, facing Godzilla would be scary, and that's what PJ's balrog is: an oversized, rampaging monster, except Godzilla can actually lead other monsters in a fight. PJ's balrog doesn't seem to know how to do even that or even recognize Gandalf as a special kind of enemy (a Maiar, the same sort of being as the balrog). The Bakshi balrog at least appears to have a kind of intelligence and deep malice to it, which is why I found it freaky as a kid an even today.
My favorite part of all this Gandalf expressing how much weaker everyone truly is compared to him. Blantly telling them "you cannot help me here". Just amazing scene.
Where there's a whip whoo cha there's a way we don't wanna go to war today but the lord of lashes says nay nay nay we'll be marching all day all day all day where there's a whip there's a way
I think he held a speech to Orcs in Two Towers book at Helms Deep before the fight for survival (before Gandalf came with Rohirrim forces) to save them. So gonna assume the budget, and this was best thing they could do with what they had.
@@matrix91234 yep, just before dawn on the fifth day aragorn goes onto the walls to parley with the Uruk Hai, who wish for theoden to come and fight them. eventually they breach the door of the hornburg, but theoden and his surviving rohirrim ride forth (900 out of the approx 2000 starting defenders, causing the Uruks to retreat, as Gandalf arrives with Erkenbrand's (a nonexistant character in the films) infantry to back them up. the Uruks flee into a newly created "wood" of Huorns, which are basically lesser ents, and more treelike than ents. In this wood almost all the uruks are killed trying to escape, and many others die to the infantry and cavalry of Rohan
@@trumpsextratesticle8590 Ralph Bakshi's film was not made with any STUDIO involvement. It was an INDEPENDANT production made by HIS OWN COMPANY and distributed by United Artists Pictures. I actually like that it doesn't have a big Hollywood type mega-budget. I don't think it required one. I think it turned out alright without it. And I think the more modest budget was adequate and suitable for it. Just my point of view.
@@viceversar-do1cn NOTHING you said proves anything I said wrong. Matter of fact, YOUR statement is contradictory. YOU say "No production company was involved", then turn around and say his "OWN COMPANY" , "an independent production company" was involved.... LMFAO Man your generation has really been dumbed down. I feel sorry for you. SMH.
@@trumpsextratesticle8590 I said no "STUDIO" (same word you used) as in a MAJOR studio like MGM, Warner Brothers, 29th Century Fox, Universal, Paramount, or Columbia Pictures. WHAT did YOU have in mind when you used the word?
Balrogs dont have real wings. None of the books actually say that they are wings. They are only a cloke of shadow. The Silmarillion goes into vague detail but its pretty explicit that they dont fly. Blah. blah. Blah.....I love this cartoon.
Well, you certainly can’t aptly accuse those Orcs of not being frightening and grotesque enough. This flick did THEM right at least. The Black Riders in this movie are really creepy and well-done too, I’ll note (“Sniff! sniff!! .. . sniff!”).
I once met the guy who designed the Balrog. It was Paul Smith of X-Men fame. He said he had been criticized of beautifying everything - even sewers. I think the "unscary balrog" proves the point.
HONESTLY, I find the Balrog in the 2000 version to be kind of stupid looking too. THAT one looks to me like a rip off of the Id monster in the 1957 movie Forbidden Planet, only with fire instead of laser energy
I remember when this came out. Every one of us was excited as most of my school had read LOTR. They got the first part out and never did 2 or 3 of the book. We were all depressed. Then 1981 radio 4 brought out a full length 13 hour radio play. Every week it was a go to thing. Fun fact -- Ian Holm was Frodo Baggins in the radio play 1981. He was Bilbo Baggins in the 2001 Full movie! Love it.
I remember seeing this at the cinema when it came out. The orcs and ringwraiths scared the life out of me. Even now I think the wraiths in the animated film are more disturbing .I think it is the rotoscoping technique adding to the effectiveness of how the orcs and Ringwraith looked like humans but not quite human. I also noticed the PJ LOTR scene in Bree where the wraiths are about to bring their swords down onto the beds is very similar to the animated version. Particularly The camera angles etc. in the animated film they seem to appear out of no where which again is creepy. Shame the other books were never made by baski . I know PJ LOTR are excellent but at the time I was desperate to see more.
Well, you certainly can’t aptly accuse those Orcs of not being frightening and grotesque enough. This flick did THEM right at least. The Black Riders in this movie are really creepy and well-done too, I’ll note (“Sniff! sniff!! .. . sniff!”).
I very much enjoy Gandalf gently tumbling into the abyss and snapping at the fellowship with all of the energy of an impatiently miffed dad who's realized his kids are still sitting around the breakfast table instead of getting ready for school...
@@TolkienGeek. INCORRECT!!! The description of the Balrog in Moria from "The Bridge of Khazad-dûm", in the fifth chapter of The Fellowship of the Ring raised the question of whether Balrogs were winged. There are two references in this chapter: His enemy halted again, facing him, and the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings. ...suddenly it drew itself up to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall...
@@sgtpaloogoo2811 idk the wraiths did a fantastic job if being overly terrifying when I was a kid. And I LOVE the witch king and how hrs not some arrogant nasely loser
@@Velanestar Oh yeah, that Witch King sounded like Cobra Commander through an industrial fan. Hurts to listen to and not in a good way. Definitely prefer the Jackson version. His voice is like cold venom. A breath of malice with enough depth to sink your stomach and enough of a hiss to send shivers. And I don’t mind the direction they took, keeping the design relatively consistent with the Black Riders that the entire trilogy had been using.
@@rustkarl and you can tell a lot of villains took inspiration from his voice later on. The Litchking is the best example I can think of- with how commanding and "broken" it sounds
Ralph Bakshi is certainly, at least, the bigger pioneer and innovator over frigging Peter Jackson. For example, creators and fans of things like Heavy Metal, Ren and Stimpy, South Park, and Futurama all owe Bakshi a debt. Now, do tell us, WHAT exactly has Jackson influenced? .. . zilch!
@@IanFindly-iv1nl Heavy Metal was awful, like Boba Fett in the Holiday Special bad. Jackson influenced millions of kids who had never read the books to go read them; introducing LOTR to a whole new generation. Is Bakshi your dad or something? Don't get so butt hurt over that.
I read this chapter a few days ago and skimming over, the only description I saw was that it looked like it was made of fire and shadow, had a mane, and I think horns. Even the wings weren't mentioned for several paragraphs.
Melkor "see about thousands of years from now a fellowship to kill my lieutenant is gonna start and they will expect good ol' Gothmogs friends but NO! I'll actually tell his deformed brother to go instead cause they wont expect it" Melkor- first age
I for one think this balrog is fairly creepy, especially the way it moves and waves the sword around like that. But watching the movie on a headful of acid definitely aided my suspension of disbelief.
Gandalf: That's the most foul, cruel, and bad-tempered Balrog you ever set eyes on! Boromir: You tit! I soiled my armor I was so scared! Gandalf: Look, that Balrog's got a vicious streak a mile wide! It's a killer! Aragorn: Get stuffed! Gandalf: He'll do you up a treat, mate. Boromir: Oh, yeah? Aragorn: You manky git! Gandalf: I'm warning you! Bilbo: What's he do? Nibble your bum? Gandalf: He's got huge, sharp... er... He can leap about. Look at the bones!
