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To be perfectly fair Hera has every reason in the world to be super pissed off. I feel like she gets a bad rap when in reality we should be shaming Zeus considering he is constantly committing adultery and trying to hide it from Hera. I honestly don't think she would be as pissed if every fling Zeus had didn't result in a child of some sort.
@@Jsizzlet Fr, I think she’s seen this way because people mostly look at it from the child’s perspective (Hercules, Zagreus, Perseus) where they’re the ones being targeted just for existing. We never get to see Hera’s view point on how she feels and honestly it’s sort of sad.
Not sure how accurate it was to what the Greeks believed, but I remember reading one story where Hera basically forced Zeus into marrying her so she could be queen of the universe. So I don't have complete sympathy for her.
The 0roblem of course is she shouldn't target the children of Zeus rather just her husband. I don't care who you are the child is blameless and should not be killed for revenge on the father.
Hearing Zagreus was able to wield the lightning bolts reminds me of how according to some orphic cults, Dionysus was believed to be the child of prophecy who will take Zeus's throne.
Many stories and myths from different cultures around the world share the same type of theme: a prophecy is told about a child who would overthrow or kill an evil king or his own father. Another Greek myth is Perseus, where a prophecy said he would overthrow his own grandfather, King Acrisius of Argos, so the King had Perseus and his mother Danae put into a chest which was thrown into the sea in an attempt to drown them so that the prophecy would never come true. But like many heroes, Perseus and his mother survived and as an adult Perseus ended up killing his grandfather the King. I'll give a few more examples of these types of stories: Zeus was almost eaten by his father Cronus (Greek mythology). Heracles was almost killed by Hera as a baby, and after his death he ascended (Greek mythology). King Priam of Troy tries to kill his son Paris (Greek mythology). King Laius tries to kill his son Oedipus (Greek mythology). King Pelias tries to kill the child Jason (Greek mythology). King Athamas of Boeotia tries to kill his son Phrixus (Greek mythology). Atalanta was abandoned by her father as a baby but survived (Greek mythology). Asclepius was killed by his grandfather Zeus, but was resurrected (Greek mythology). Pelops was killed by his father Tantalus, and then resurrected (Greek mythology). Hippolytus was killed by his father Theseus, but was resurrected (Greek mythology). Abraham tries to kill his son Isaac (Jewish mythology). Pharaoh tries to kill baby Moses (Jewish mythology). King Saul tries to kill David (Jewish mythology). King Darius tries to kill Daniel by throwing him into the lions' den (Jewish mythology). Lucifer was kicked out of Heaven by God (Christian mythology). The King tries to kill the child Gilgamesh (Mesopotamian mythology). The king of Egypt/god Set tries to kill the baby Horus by disguising himself as a snake (Egyptian mythology). King Duransarun tries to kill the baby Zoroaster (Zoroastrian aka Persian mythology). King Kamsa tries to kill the baby Krishna (Hindu mythology). The baby hero Sigurd was separated from his mother and in a bottle which fell into a river (Norse mythology). Balor tries to kill his grandson Lugh, but he escapes and survives (Irish mythology). Chief Shemwindo tries to kill his son Mwindo (Nyanga mythology from the Democratic Republic of Congo in central Africa). The evil red Rainbow King Nkongolo tried to kill the hero Kalala Ilunga, but he survived (Luba mythology from the Democratic Republic of the Congo, central Africa). Nzame throws his son Bingo out of Heaven (Bantu of the Congo mythology). Ceridwen abandons her baby boy Taliesen but he survives (Welsh Arthurian mythology). King Gargoris abandoned his son Habis (Tartessian mythology from Spain). Princess Kunti abandoned her baby son Karna (Hindu mythology). The evil Untamo tries to kill the baby boy Kullervo three times (by drowning, fire, and hanging). But the baby Kullervo survives. (Finnish mythology). Vainamoinen tried to kill Marjatta's son (Finnish mythology). Shun's family tried to kill him (Chinese mythology). The King tries to kill Cumong while he is still inside an egg (Korean mythology). The King's brother, Todong, tried to kill the boy Gesar Khan (Tibetan and Mongol mythology). The Big Bad Wolf eats Little Red Riding Hood, but she survives (European fairy tale). The Queen aka Snow White's step mother tries to kill Snow White (German fairy tale). Maleficent curses Princess Aurora so that she may die on her 16th birthday, but she survives after the Prince kisses her (French fairy tale). Hansel and Gretel are abandoned by their father and stepmother and attacked by a witch, but they survive (German fairy tale). Pryderi is separated from his parents when members of his mother Rhiannon's family steal him (Welsh mythology). "Daughter" (I couldn't find the character's actual name) is abandoned by her father and stepmother but survives (Russian fairy tale called "Father Frost"). Vassilisa was sent to the witch Baba Yaga by her stepmother, but she escaped and survived (Slavic mythology). Mariassa was sent by her stepmother to the witch Baba Yaga, but she escaped and survived (Slavic mythology). The boy Cuchulain was attacked by a guard dog, but he survived (Irish mythology). Momotaro didn't have human parents because he was born from a peach, and he was adopted by a childless couple (Japanese folklore). Nezha didn't have human parents because he was born from a ball of flesh (Chinese legend). The Monkey King Sun Wukong didn't have human parents because he was born from a stone (Chinese literature). Buddha’s mother died when he was still a child (Buddhist mythology). Maui was abandoned by his mother as a baby (Polynesian mythology). Tarzan was raised by animals (American literature). Mowgli was raised by animals (The Jungle Book, English literature). Lastly, the most obvious example of this type of story: Jesus, who as a baby survived being killed by King Herod in the episode called "The Massacre of the Innocents". Edit: The following are 3 more stories that I forgot to mention above: A legend about the historical figure Sargon of Akkad: Sargon is cast into a river by his mother (Akkadian legend). A legend about the historical figure Cyrus of Persia: A prophecy foretells Cyrus's destiny, and the hero baby Cyrus is ordered to be killed, but a herdsman saves him (Persian legend). The villain King Numitor has the hero baby Romulus and his twin brother Remus placed in an ark and left to drift away in the Tiber River in the hopes that they will drown (Roman mythology).
@@tothboy01 Your comment shoul've been pinned, and the fact you waist your time to actually write this much without much like, thx for so much reference i never even know existed. Edit: i know this comment has nothing to do with Zagreus in anything, but simply the amount of reference for mythology learning is fascinating
@@cuwumsatyr715 Yes, I remember the majority of them, some of them I have a bit more difficulty remembering though. I have been reading about comparative mythology and religion for a long time now.
Zagreus is never ever talked about and I’m so glad you covered him this week I can’t wait for the Egyptian gods and their introduction to the messed up origins fam
I took a Greek mythology class in college and I never once heard about this guy, I’m really surprised too because his creation is WILD. I think this is one of my new favorite creations haha
Lol. We got Greek Mythology in elementary school. It was our first contact with how fucked up some things were in it, but eventually we got it mostly covered.
I did know that Zagreus was real. When I was young, I was writing a book that included the greek gods in it and did a lot of research. A thing I did was that a lot of Gods took on different names as their roles changed and they gained power. The oldest name of Dionis was Zagreus and he was very much the son of Hades, being annoyed at how Zeus claimed to father everyone. I even included a note of "I am the god of fermentation, the process of destroying fruit to create something new and highly valued. Which sounds more like my father, the god of the sky and storms, or the god of Death and Wealth?"
In some accounts, Zagreus/Dionysus is refered to as "Zeus Cthonic", which literally means "Zeus of the Underworld"... Which means that he is HADES. So, another possible origin is that he is Hades himself, and son of Zeus, and inheritor of his throne. Zagreus/Dionysus may also be the son prophecized to take the throne of Zeus, just like Zeus took it from his father Chronus, and Chronus took it from Ouranus. In this version, he would be the twin brother of Athena, who were swallowed by Zeus when he swallowed their pregnant mother to prevent his birth. The truth is that Zagreus/Dionysus is a God that precedes the ancient Greece, probably a Micenean God (the civilization that existed BEFORE what we now understand as "Classic Greece"), and he is therefore older than the entire Greek pantheon, only later being incorporated to it, hence why there's so many discrepancies and incongruences. Whatever the case, Zagreus/Dionysus was one of, if not THE most powerful of all the Olympian Gods, even more so than Zeus himself - and he could dethrone Zeus if he wanted to. But my boy Dionysus here was just too chill to care about that
"I'm talking the worst thing Zeus and Hera have ever done" And I'm like 'wait! There is more? How long is that list and when will we reach the end of it?!'
Hera is a B!…capital B at that! 😂 she’s done sooo much dirty shit to her sons And daughters, but honestly, I kind of empathize with her(not sympathize) because Zeus was a fucking THOT!!…Zeus would fuck anything!..he’d fuck a rock if it could talk. 😂 Zeus is kind of a dead beat father too. It’s ridiculous…imagine having to put up with all that cheating bro. Lmao and not only cheating, but basically incest!…he’s fucked his own sisters!…that should tell you what kind of person Zeus is….but…then again…almost all pantheons have Gods who have incest with their own sisters and brothers…I’m talking Hindu Gods, Egyptian Gods, Roman, Greek, Norse, idk much about Chinese Gods but if I recall correctly the Japanese pantheon have Gods that have had incest sex with their brothers/sisters. Smh. The only mythology/religion that I know of that doesn’t involve any incest is Christianity and the other newer religions/mythologies and the only reason I call Christianity a mythology is because I have no idea if it’s real or not, how do we REALLY know that Christianity/Jehovah’s Witness are the real Gods when every single culture in the world has God’s. 🤷🏾♂️ it makes it really hard which is why I kind of empathize with atheist too…except I actually believe that there is a God…idk his/her name, but someone had to create the world we live in…we didn’t just arrive here out of thin air. And seeing as Christianity is a new religion and every single story in the Bible can be compared to another story from another religion or a mythology that makes it hard to believe that it’s the right religion. And Christian’s are so quick to call other religions fake or call it a “mythology” and that’s so dismissive and yet they’re the youngest religions out of all of the religions!! 😳
Before watching: Wait, isn't Zagreus another name for Dionysus? After watching :Ah, see, I think you got a few points that OSP left out back in their video about Dionysus.
Something that is important to note about Zeus and Persephone's tryst is that a lot of those stories come from a time when Zeus and Hades would be combined into one god. That's why if you look up Melinoe's father, you'll get two different responses.
A lot of our information is incomplete. We don't think Hades existed in Mycenaean Greece as of current information from Linear B, so they might have been the same god once or he could have come from somewhere else. Poseidon was the chief deity back then and Persephone was his and Demeter's child. There was a whole dark age between then and Classical Greece where things were not recorded so we can't entirely be sure where Hades came from. Though few of Hades epithets do contain Zeus, including Zeus Cthonios meaning "Zeus of the underground."
Hades in general appears to be the result of the transition of king of the gods from Poseidon to Zeus and the general falling out of favor of chthonic gods that occurred at the same time. Given Hades' Zeus epithets, I'd guess that both Poseidon's position as king of the gods and his chthonic aspects got shunted onto Zeus first and only later did the chthonic aspects get splintered off to become Hades. Not exactly unheard of even in Greek mythology given that Pan and Hermes used to be one god and Aphrodite got splintered into 3 different versions of herself (the goddess herself evidently being the result of Astarte worshippers coming to Greece and Astarte evidently having splintered off of Ishtar).
@@clarehidalgo Let me clear this up. Years after Hades and Poseidon officially became different entitles, Orphism would start to combine Hades and Zeus. The epithets you refer to come from Orphist culture.
@@violeth2255 No. We know that Zeus was never originally an underworld god. We do know that in Orphism, years after Poseidon and Hades split, they treated Zeus and Hades to be the same god.
@@silverfoot6079 Calling it strictly untrue isn't right either since we don't know the right translation for the word cerberus and it might just be 'spotted' like Ogden suggests
Persephone is also known as Kore - which means "Maiden" (iirc). It's speculated that she was so fearsome that people back then refused to speak her real name, and only uses vague monikers for her like "maiden", or "daughter", to not get her attention.
I searched on google and it said that a cult that worshipped persephone took over anicent greece and because of this people began to worship her to the point hades was barely mentioned or forgotten
5:00 Actually there is a very explicitly stated reason for Zagreus's death. The Fates had cursed Hades to be unable to have an heir after he inherited the underworld. Thats it. He could not be born into a realm that was of the dead, much less to god who did not originate from the underworld. This is also why Nyx is the one who is able to revive him (albeit with some time and a lot of effort) Anyways thank you for this video I am addicted to this Game and all of its Lore and Stories
I had never heard of Zagreus before this game (the game I had heard of from a YTer). I didn't realize it was a real, err, ... myth. Although I do remember reading some stuff about Dionysus that felt like I was missing part of the story. Very cool to get (a version of) the full story, and a decent explanation of the Dionysian Mystery religion. And I'm impressed with how good a job the game did with incorporating real myths ('real myths' sounds so weird), as well as its own mythology. Fricking Zeus. Sets his own brother up with his own daughter, but that's not enough. Then he has to diddle with the bride. The bride who's his own daughter. You know that sickle Chronus used on Uranus? Anyone still have that?
jon I just wanted to comment as a long time fan, your uploads truly make my day, your videos are always entertaining, well researched, and make me laugh and give me the chills. you are a truly fantastic creator. have a good day!!!
I'm so deep in the messed up mythos I was genuinely surprised when I saw this video just came out and then disappointed I already saw the newest video. In other words, your channel is more than worthy of a binge I am currently lost in 😂 please keep up the good work, stone cold sober or up in the clouds your videos always hit the spot 👌 one of the few I'll watch ads for
that's so kind of you to say! my friends and fam can't believe that anyone would voluntarily listen to me talk for that long 😂 I truly appreciate and am grateful for your support Jessica!
I really wish they made a Greek mythology movie with Hera as the main antagonist. So many adaptations choose Ares or Hades as villains, sometimes Zeus too. But Hera shows up in so many stories being particularly spiteful and cruel which would be really interesting to see in a movie or animated series.
there is the animated series "Blood of Zeus" in which hera is the villain, but the main character is from my knowladge not a real person in greek methology, it was still a nice watch tho 👌
@@lartts7483 Because a lot of Christian influenced society demonised various figures from other beliefs and mythology. Usually any sort of God of the Dead/Underworld was given similar evil conotations to Satan, so many depictions of Hades in stuff like Disney's Hercules or Justice League madd Hades evil.
You mean you haven't watch the series "Hercules: the legendary journeys" with Kevin Sorbo? It was a very popular series back in the 90s with something like 5 or 7 seasons. And the a agonist is... Hera.
Can I just say i really love the game's depiction of demeter? We're so used to associating her with green and plants and all it's easy to forget she caused winter when persephone disappeared. I like how the artist decided to really hone in on that bit of the story and actually make demeter look like some sort of frost queen, makes her look very unique
Its worth remembering that the myths evolved over the years, just like names of the gods. My professor said that originally many myths and stories could be about many other gods, but as the cult of Zeus/sky father grew more popular, other gods were being replaced by Zeus for the story sake. By this theory, Zagreus was possibly son of Hades and Persephone, but it was later changed for Zeus becuase he was more popular and less scary god. Its kinda the same as we do now with our superheroes stories.
My dad told me that myths and legends changed depending on the audience. So, perhaps the tale of Zagreus being Dionysus, was more popular because the audience wanted to hear about getting a different life?. Wish I knew of Zagreus before I wrote my own version of the Hades+Persephone myth, I named their son Hayden.
U had to dislike cause you decided to name the sin if hades and Persephone Hayden but honestly how that in typing it but doesn't seem that bad Hayden would have to be born in 19cen not ancient Greece tho.
same! I've clocked in 107 runs in 125 hours and I'm honestly not bored of it. they did such an amazing job making each run feel like you're making progress towards a goal
@@JonSolo I agree, and I think of several places that would fit nicely too. Xanadu, Shangri La, Tartarus, Asphodel, Helheim, Niflheim, Alfheim, the list goes on.
10:25 honestly why in the world do bad guys think that by killing the child the parent will be so inconsolable they're prime for take over. Any parent worth their salt would be PISSSED AT SOMEONE KILLING THEIR CHILD! Esp when u consider all the things parents do when their child is attacked! U mess with Mama and Papa Bear u get the claws!
Yes finally! I've been trying to figure out this myth myself but couldn't wrap my head around it. Thanks for clarifying. Can you do one about Persephone and Hades' daughters?
In some accounts, it's said that Hades and Persephone had two daughters, Makaria, goddess of blessed death and Melonië goddess of funeral rites and Makaria is also sometimes said to be the consort of Thanatos
What if Zagreus is still out there some where? Since he is called the Great Hunter, and Dionysus has a habit of tearing people limb from limb (see the play Bacchae, where the Maenads kill Dionysus's nephew) everytime I hear about a dismembered limb found in a forest I think about Zagreus😱💀
Thank you for covering this! I hadn't heard of Zagreus before, or of the Hades game, so it was all super interesting. I think I'll actually get the game now cause it looked really well done.
I have been showing your videos to my daughter. Now she is hooked on learning Greek Mythology. And my son is learning Nordic culture. Your videos have been wonderful for them! Thank you!!!
The multiple births of Zagreus remind me of the story of the Conception of Cú Chulainn. He took 3 goes before surviving in the mortal world, and in the second conception, it is suspected that his father was also his grandfather...
This story is even weirder when you consider the theory that some scholars believe, in which Hades, Dionysus and/or Zeus were the same deity. 😹 I highly doubt that Hades and Zeus were the same dude, but I wouldn't be surprised if Dionysus was just Hades, since people basically wanted to party with Dionysus but no one wanted attention from Hades.
There were cults that plmade hades and zeus in to one good. In ancient times there were so many cults and differences in stories that almost anything you can come up with, there would be someone who believed it. The myths we have now are the ones that survived all this time and rewriting, translation, mistakes and cultural shifts. It would be highly interesting to see one of the first 'proper' Greek react to the modern myths and just see them be confused and utterly lost.
@@Girlwithdragonchariot I recommend giving one of your nectars to Cerberus as soon as you can. His keepsake gives you some more max health to work with. In my experience, that made the difference against Meg.
I started playing Hades last year but it's been a long while since I touched that game. Also I never finished it. Awesome game indeed and I couldn't resist playing it when I heard of it the first time because not only I'm a Greek Mythology nerd (reason for why God of War is also one of my favorite videogame franchises), Hades is my favorite God and him and Persephone are my favorite mythological couple. I never looked much into Zagreus' origin and this video was fantastic. I love the story created for the game and the real myth is incredible. But what absolutely surprised me is that connection between Zag and Dionysus. I knew D was considered the God twice born, but I never knew or heard about Zag being the one born from Zeus' thigh. Excellent video man!
I first heard about Zagreus from Grimm Fairy Tales comics and their "Godstorm" storyline. Thank you for researching him. I looked him up on my own before, and all the sources I found didn't make much sense. This explains why.
If I remember correctly Persephone and Hades did have a few children together. One of them ended up becoming the goddess of nightmares and ended up marrying Morpheus.
Nope. Makaria is said to possibly be a daughter of Haides but no mother is given. Melinoe is a daughter of Zeus and Persephone. So Haides and Persephone have not actually had kids together.
@@christianjohnson5379 this is true for certain myths but not for melinoe and makaria. they were only mentioned once in ancient sources (in which what IceQueen said is accurate), but all other "versions" are just made up by the internet.
Holy smokes! That's how Dionysus came about? My memory wants to say that when I was a teenager I had heard of his mother taking a potion to help her conceive (which I now find odd since it had to do with Zeus), but never of Zagreus. I love when modern stories, movies, games, etc. add little twists to the mythologies that 'could' be possible. I do it all the time with my own stories. It's almost like a game in itself, in my opinion. "What could I put that'll make people think on things?" This was awesome! Thank you for this new bit of info. Much appreciated.
I think both are considered correct. Think the confusion comes from multiple religions to Dionysus conflating the two gods and not quite syncing up with each other. Either way the stories are amazing
It's still primarily just one version of the myths that seem to imply that Zagreus and Dionysus are one in the same. Personally I like the version where Zagreus is Hades and Persephone's son, studying the myth's enough shows that Persephone eventually grew to love Hades, therefore it would only be natural that they have children together.
@@christianjohnson5379 I agree. It would make a lot more sense, since he is considered the god of rebirth. Since Hades is for those who have died (of course) and Persephone is the one who comes and goes from the underworld to visit her mother, Demeter, on the surface, Zagreus represents that cyclical embodiment of them both. At least, that's what it seems to be for me.
I really like the idéa that the more ridiculous stories from mythologies are just the gods lying and making jokes to humans. There are so many stories that just weird from all myths, doesn't matter if it's greek, norse, shinto, hindu or egyptian.
I personally feel like the Zeus Zagreus could have just been the same name not person and maybe Hades named his son after his reborn nephew. Like maybe once he was reborn as dionysus Hades was like "cool name. Guess it's not being used anymore "
I'm so glad I stumbled upon your channel a year ago. I love ancient/old folklore and stories, and the way you tell the stories are entertaining AND so knowledgeable! You really do your research and it shows; and I always learn something. Thanks so much for all the great videos!
Zagreus sits inside your head Zagreus lives among the dead Zagreus sees you in your bed And eats you when you're sleeping Zagreus at the end of days Zagreus lies all other ways Zagreus comes when time's a maze And all of history's weeping Zagreus taking time apart. Zagreus fears the hero heart. Zagreus seeks the final part. The reward that he is reaping. Zagreus sings when all is lost Zagreus takes all those he's crossed Zagreus wins and all is cost The hero's hearts he's keeping. Zagreus seeks the hero's ship Zagreus needs the web to rip Zagreus sups time at a drip And life aside, he's sweeping. The hero abandons his people. He builds a vast and mighty cosmic ship and goes in search of the land of Zagreus, a land he knows only to exist in dreams. And he set then his course To a scar on the face of Creation Where the stars lived and died in the churn of one night Where the mountains might move in the blink of an eye And decay was the only true constant After many, many years, he is ready to give up his quest - when he imagines a huge gate in the clouds. And the gate of Zagreus opened before him And all of the Antiverse was releaved to him And its terrible beauty ached in his hearts So through them he ventured There to do battle with Zagreus, the Beast Never resting as long as history is lasting Until either or both are laid to waste. Zagreus waits at the end of the world For Zagreus is the end of the world His time is the end of time And his moment Time's undoing
Jon told me to make a blood sacrifice to the like & subscribe gods…then the thumbs up icon growled red when I clicked it on my phone & confetti exploded on my screen… Have I just made a blood pact with Jon solo’s channel???🫣 Also Jon is honoring Dionysus in his videos.. yeah he’s right in the edge of becoming a reconstructionist pagan. Someone call Ocean Keltoi.
I absolutely love these videos I’ve always loved greek mythology and just mythology in general and I’ve learned so much more watching your channel. Keep doing what your doing I love it every time
I am actually super surprised you barely got to this game. It is amazing. Made me change my mind about rogue lite games. Always thought I knew most of the Greek and Roman myths. But this game introduced a whole bunch of new concepts and gods to me, Nyx being the stand out, and I have replayed that game 4 times. The dialogue, voice acting, and art style keep bringing me back. Great video, keep up the amazing work.
Then you should check out the other games made by the same people. Bastion, Transistor, and I think a few others. I am really happy that Hades ended up getting as popular as it has because their other games are awesome too
Greek mythology mainly focuses around the 12 Gods of Olympus and their shenanigans so it's no surprise that you are unfamiliar with lesser deities (even though most of em were extremely powerful and influential). Even different regions within Ancient Greece had different mythos for the same gods...
So many things in the Hades game makes sense now and makes me appreciate the game even more. Also, love your videos, I learn so much about these mythological figures.
only just got round to watching this video (been binging a fair few of your vids as of late - great work, love the content!) and was wondering if you could analyse the other myths/legends portrayed in this game too? honestly i know i would be asking too much for a full game analysis, but i would be lying if i said that's not what i truly wanted
So, watched some other greek lore videos about Zagreus (probably sparked by the game Hades as well) and when I got to the point of the game where Zagreus told the tall tale to Orpheus about him and Dionysus being the same person, I chuckled, then I heard the song Orpheus wrote (Hymn to Zagreus on the soundtrack) and I broke down laughing. Also Hades himself in game said it perfectly, to paraphrase "Garbage in, garbage out."
When Hades came out I was so happy to have listened to OSTs Dionysus Video because it mentioned his connection to Zagreus. OST Videos in general made this game so much more fun to me
Interesting that this shows up before we get lore Olympus season 2 part 2! Honestly it sounds like zagreus wasn’t actually Zeus’s son and just happened to hold the lightning bolt, I mean it’s not like there’s some forbidden Magic’s that only let Zeus use them so really it feels like it’s just coincidence. Just my opinion though. Honestly him being the child of Persephone also makes sense since she is the goddess of spring and when it’s winter shit dies and in spring things grow back and live again. Hmm I like the idea if there’s a piece of zagreus left if he’s killed or destroyed then he can comeback in turn being a perfect example of life, death and rebirth all in one. Immortality!
Wow, seeing Zeus being a good father actually makes me even more sad that Zagreus died. Also damn, His wife was so bitter as that she had a baby killed? I'm surprised Zues didn't kill her.
The Orphic version of the birth of Zagreus is so disturbing that I really don't like thinking about it, I mean, I know the Greek gods didn't care about blood relations but even so, Zeus straight up raped his own DAUGHTER!! that's crossing a very thick line, it totally baffles me to think the king of the Gods in Greek Mythology was such a messed up monster and that people actually worshipped that monster... That's one of the many reasons I really Hate Zeus, he's just so gross and disturbing, Poor Persephone, she didn't deserved that.
Think of it as a parable of the vegetation cycle. Zeus is a sky and weather god, his "semen" is rain. Demeter is the fertile, cultivated land. She receives Zeus's rain and produces vegetation - Persephone (actually, in her "above ground" form she was called Kore, meaning "maiden"). But rain falls again on that new vegetation and makes it bear fruit - a.i. Zeus gets Kore pregnant. This is cultivated land... So people harvest the fruit, tear it apart and eat it - just like the Titans tear Zagreus apart and eat him. The "heart" of the fruit (the pit or seed) is saved, burried (a.i. put back into the womb of the Goddess) and is reborn... And the cycle goes on and on. People may have made the gods look and act like humans, but the underlying story is rarely human in nature. Hence the weirdness :)
@@ioanav5920 I'm sorry, but that doesn't make it any better, at least not to me, it doesn't make the story any less f*cked up, there are other ways to represent all those things that doesn't envolve something as messed up as straight up raping Your freaking daughter, at least that's my humble opinion, maybe I'm biased by my modern set of values, but honestly I don't care, I'd rather forget that this f*cked up story even exist.
I loved the hades game, and i thought the "its just a prank bro" angle was brilliant. I also like him as the god of blood, as he is the driving force in reconciliation between the olympians and the cthonic gods (cthonics?). the only part that seemed really tortured was the hoops they went through to make sure no one ever slept with one of their relatives, because that was all over greek myths.
If you're looking for a video topic I suggest looking into the Norse myth about Sigurd and the dragon, I believe it's very similar to the story of Achilles but I don't remember all the details
I've yet to play hades and only heard good things but I'm happy its got a lot of the original mythology weaved into the game. I would love to see Leshy from inscription covered.
Hey Jon!! How are ya? I know you haven't done a Disney Messed Up Origins video in awhile, but can you do one on Oliver and Company? And how it connects to Oliver Twist?
Hey, you might not read this, but I am really curious about the Greek reincarnation. I heard there’s five rivers, and Lethe (forgetfulness) is the one you have to drink out of before being reincarnated. If not, then you figure out where the Mnemosyne (memory) river is to retain your memories. However, Gods like forgetfulness, sloth, quiet, drowsiness, etc. all stand on guard.
Mnemosyne isn't the river; Rather, she's the Titaness of Memories. She can either give you water from Lethe to make you forget, or she can make you remember what you forgot. There is also the option to make you have the memories of another person, so that you can better understand them. That could also be a punishment of sorts, because it could make you go insane.
I finished the game, and being Greek, i know that it is very faithful to mythology, the only character i didnt know about was Zagreus so i though he has made up for the game, a 99% accuracy was still much better than the 10% most other media have, thanks for the clarification, it makes me love this game even more.
I think that Zagreus inspired the character of Nico (the son of Hades) in the Percy Jackson and the Olympians and The Heroes of Olympus book series by Rick Riordan. 📚🤔📚☠👻
I recently enountered that part in the story where Dionysus convinced Zagreus to make Orpheus believe that he and Dionysus are one and the same. Zag later apologized to Orpheus saying that it was just a prank by the God of Wine. To think that all of these were actual Greek Myths. Supergiant games did their homework and more when making this game.
No I didn't know Zagreus was real because I didn't even know of his existence in game. But You telling the story really makes me want to play the game. And the fact that the real myth was supposed to be a joke between the gods Dionysus and Zagreus is actually really funny. Edit: I just bought the game😁
Hold up hold up hold up… so you mean to tell me that oh boy Zagreus never got torn limb by limb nor got himself barbecued, flame broiled, or even at least s’mored or microwaved?!?!?! It was just an illusion to my ears!?!? April Fool’s done pass bro; my feelings are betrayed, the whole cookout after taking him apart sounded pretty messed up but it never happened… I got got 🤦🏽♂️🤣🤦🏽♂️… good video but I don’t know what’s more messed up: the fact that it never happened OR the fact that you kept your composure, shared this messed up origin, only to come around and with same composure say: it was a prank…? Awesome work though awesome work
Also I heard that they're planning to do a remake of the original God of wars so we might get got to war one two three chains of Olympus Ghost of Sparta and then the very last one which was Ascension I think it was hopefully we'll get all those again in the newer consoles
Zeus creeping on Persephone happens a couple of times. She also has a daughter Melinoe who was conceived on Persephone by Zeus IN THE GUISE OF HADES. Melinoe was born of her fury at having been taken advantage of. But Greek mythology is really tricky. It presents as incest, but gods aren't humans. Their connections to one another are thematic and theological. For example, Persephone's marriage to Hades seems icky because he's her uncle, but the reality is that Hades is actually a MUCH younger god than Persephone. Persephone and Demeter come from very old and strongly established religious sects that worshipped them as goddesses of life and death. Persephone is married to Hades to legitimise a newer god by linking him to an older one. Eros and Aphrodite are another excellent example of this. Aphrodite is an imported goddess that made her way into Greek culture, she's not actually originally Greek she's Mesopotamian. She's literally Ishtar I'm pretty sure. But she was imported and well liked and eventually she was linked up with the Greek god Eros who was the established god of love to lend her legitimacy and spread her worship. Now to readdress that "IN THE GUISE OF HADES" bit: Hades and Zeus are conflated. One of Hades' titles IS Zeus of the Underworld. This might simply be an epithet in order to avoid invoking Hades' true name, as stating the names of death gods was a bit of a taboo back in the days. But it's also entirely possible that it's literal. That Hades is or was Zeus' cthonic persona, the face he takes in his role as the god of death, and Hades as his own entity standing apart from Zeus is actually a very young concept. We know that there were secret mysteries, sects devoted to the worship of Persephone, Demeter, Poseidon, and Dionysus as cthonic gods, gods of the underworld, terrifying gods whose worship was shrouded in mystery. But none of that really exists for Hades, who is supposed to have been chief among such gods. He's a itty bitty baby god, that was barely around long enough for those cults to properly form around him. Sooooo yeah. TLDR Hades isn't real, everything you think you know is a lie.
When this game comes up, I am in the comment section. Most annoyingly. Aeschylus could have sourced his Zagreus (in the Sisyphus fragment) on the Alcmaionis, where a line invokes Gaia and Zagreus as highest of all gods. Possibly based on the first thre layered structure of the world, as in the sky with Ouranos, the earth with Gaia, and the underworld, or hades (the place) and it's master, the greatest hunter who always catches his prey, Zagreus. And that is why I like the Narrator in the game. A theory of mine is that he is Aeschylus. The Game already has the mark of a Greek epic. And also a nice wink to the Dionysus festivities where playwrights write 3 tragedies and a satyr play. Now Aeschylus wrote Sisyphus, dabbled in the Orpheus tragedy, and Myrmidons. You actually resolve 3 tragedies in the game. (Warning: here be spoilers in in this sea of text) The tragedy of Sisyphus. You free him from his anguish, but he truly becomes content with his place in the afterlife in Tartarus. The tragedy Of Orpheus, where you manage to reunite Orpheus with Eurydice in Asphodel. And the Tragedy of the two myrmidons, your mentor Achilles, and Patroclus in the Elysium. Three tragedies, an then you arrive at Styx where you fight Satyrs (connected to Dionysus again), who call you Hades when they spot you, and you have to fight your own father, quasi repeating history, meet Persephone, just to die anyway and go back to square one... the laughable tragedy, the satire of the heroic character. The game leans into the epic standards by referencing epics with some weapon aspects. The romance of the three kingdoms with Guan Yu, the Arthurian epics with Excalibur, the Gilgamesh epic with the claws of Enkidu, The Ramayana with the bow of Rama, and next to these a fairly recent one, the aspect of Lucifer from Paradise lost. Also like how every Olympian laughs off the human gullibility. For example Zeus is definitely not everyone's father in this. But he doesn't correct it, since he loves the fame. But he is still as brash as in the myths, as his idea of doing good to his older brother is playing wingman. Good intentions, bad execution. Or how they made fun of the Orphic myth. Clever. Or the story of Asterius and the other guy. Even how the other guy (okay, Theseus) is angry when Heracles is mentioned. Bet it's because Herc made him the butt of all jokes (wink wink nudge nudge). Anyway. Thanks for the video.
I figure Zeus had to have gotten together with Persephone before her relationship with Hades I figure Zeus would be willing to piss off either just Demeter or just Hades but I don't think he'd be willing to piss off both of them I don't think Zeus is that dumb.
9:05 The picture isn't actully the Titans it's meant to be the giants. It's from the netflix serie Blood of Zeus (Vey good serie, i recommend it). I just rememberd that when i saw the picture. You can see the picture in the trailer.
Ohhhh ! thats why Zagreus likes Dionysus so much in the game because i found it odd that you can buy a Dionysus poster and the only Olympian poster on the contractor out of all Olympians.