The Wyvern is complete TRASH TIER! | Wyverns Unit Review | 10th Edition 

One of the coolest looking models in the army too.

Sorry to bother you dude. Is there anywhere I can download tournament maps?

Yup Player Placed Terrain makes Super Heavies good, and lists with them need to get rid of backfield chaff objective holders with no order support. For that niche case, Wyvern is pretty perfect. Order-less Heavy Weapon Squads and Psions are way worse alternatives.

It's super cool and fluffy

The flachette are AQUILLAS!? That's amazing

Well said!

I do like this view, although I’m not sure how many people are playing 500pt games. We usually look at data sheets in 2000pt armies. You’re right, certain things get better in lower point games. Given me a lot to think about as I Do tend to play sub 2k games.

lil bro playing Warhammer 500 years BC 💀💀💀

@@destroyersend5299 as I said, a new formation for every 500 points. You can do whatever after 1500.

Yeah seems like if you're not running Creed, Wyvern is better.

Player Placed Terrain...

Which is literally the superior way to play the game @@MordianGlory

@@untitled528 A bold statement sir!

Came here to say this

You have an odd definition of "Shreds". Assuming no order (who orders a Wyvern) and no Scout Sentinel you kill like 3.3 out of 20 Termagants (the ideal target really). Assuming you are just doing indirect fire of course (Although the other weapons won't add much. mb 1-2 more). That's pathetic for the cost. There's argument to be made that the -1 to hit can be potent, but that depends on the faction you are facing. For quite a few factions it's basically useless so the ability is mid tier at best. I'm not convinced the Wyvern is trash tier (it has a decent defensive profile for the cost after all and at least a hunter killer missile, which may do something), but it's still pretty bad against many factions and only alright against the best use scenarios.

@theStamax it kills light infantry the same as a basilisk which cost more points, but that isnt the point. The point of the unit is the debuff. If that isn't something you think is valuable, then you won't like it. I would love to tag chosen or centurions or terminators with -1 to hit before they closed on my lines.

@@Bobhope99 Oh I do value it, but it's value greatly depends on who you are fighting. Terminators? Sure sounds good until you realize that either they will demolish what they hit regardless or it'll have oath of the moment and the -1 to hit does nearly nothing. Same for CSM really, with all their access to hit rerolls. There are absolutely situations where it can be worth it, but as I said. It's not gonna be universally useful.

Half the armies in the game are Space Marine tier or better. There's comparatively few armies with light infantry.

I’ve used it a couple times and it’s not as bad as everyone makes it to be.

It's actually even worse than 4d6 fewer shots than the mortar teams, because the Wyvern only benefits from blast once. If you have 2 Mortar HWTs, you get Blast x6. Into a 20 man blob that's an extra 24 shots. For the Wyvern it's only 4 extra shots.

Basically it comes down to how much do you care about getting the benefit of a decent buff without having to paying a CP a turn to do it.

I think at that point you probably want a good artillery piece to shoot. The low strength of the attack is the problem. Something you stacked buffs on like this is a high priority targets that can probably resist the 2d6 (TL) of 4+ 5 0 1 the Wyvern spits out. It still has to wound on strength 5, the AP just helps for the armor save. If you want to fish for sixes on a budget two mortar HWS will outperform with triple (!) the amount of shots. Good arty like Earthshaker Battery (D6+3 of 5+ 8 -2 2) and Medusa (D6 of 5+ 10 -3 3) has AP to compensate for the lack of ignores cover and their higher strength and higher damage can actually threaten tanky targets on hit rolls other than 6. If you're worried about the ballistic skill bring the Basilisk for 150 instead of 110 points and get the earthshaker gun that hits on 4+.

I think youd be mad to pick 2 wvyern over 3HWS + creed, but the comparison isn't exactly fair. The three HWS would need three orders to hit similarly to the wyverns and creed can only order two. The fairer comparison would be creed attached to an infantry squad with a mortar and 2 HWS (same 235pts compared to 220 wyverns), but you can actually manage the orders. With Creed's you get one free fields of fire on the unit she is leading plus a potential free CP because of the vox in the unit she is leading. If you roll 5+ you can get the resources for the suppression stratagem. You also still have her two orders (getting your mortars up to the same to hit) and you can throw out a second fields of fire of you have to. Fields of fire benefits all units in your army, so the additional -1 AP really goes a long way. On the damage side this setup still gives you 7D6 to fish for sixes. If you want to get even more flexible you can go with 1 HWS +3 mortars, creed, a platoon command squad +1 mortar and an infantry squad +1 mortar. You'd go down to 5D6 but you are able to project creeds orders forward into your front line infantry or your scout sentinels. If you are fishing for 6s anyway because of the 5 strength take aim isn't the best order.

@@saubohne I think the points have changed since I originally commented.

I'd generally rather have either two more mortar teams or an extra chimera with double flamers filled with catachan. Slightly more expensive, but vastly more lethal in both cases.

@@quincykunz3481 Mortar teams are interesting, but vastly easier to kill

Seems like it would be great in a list with no Creed, like one with a Super Heavy. Maybe try that out if you wanna use your model. 110 points to clear cultists from backfield objectives, no support needed. Way cheaper than most alternatives, and it stays on the board (unlike deep strikers).

Not really. The problem is the low strength for the wound roll, the AP just helps on the armor save. The wyvern statistically rolls 7 attacks they hit on a 4 -1(indirect) +1(heavy) = 4. Statistically we roll every number 1⅙ times so we get 3½ hits. On the wound roll you need a 4+ for toughness 5 a 5+ for 6-9 and a 6+ for 10+. Your sixes automatically wounded thanks to lethal hits, but you still have 2⅓ normal hits that realistically will only wound on a 5+. With twin linked you can either reroll everything that wasn't a six to get one of each roll, so one more guaranteed wound and two more hits or reroll just the 3½ misses. A tough choice. Two HWS with mortars throw 6d6 of attacks out. Thats a statistical average of 21 attacks. They hit on 5+ -1(indirect) +1(heavy). You roll every number 3½ times. That's more sixes than hits on the Wyvern. And they all autowound. Ap and ignores cover apply to the save roll that follows after you know how many wounds you would apply. The wyvern would make the save one step harder, but it didn't deliver on enough wounds for this to swing things in it's favor.

Unless all you're playing against is swarms of gaunts, that absolutely is not the case :P HWT suffer because they're less durable than tanks, require more screening, have a larger foot print do less damage and have less utility than basilisks/manticores

It's only 2d6 shots and even with blast, you get an average of like 9 shots and they have no ap. The ignoring cover is nice but hitting on 4s base and kind of relying on indirect fire means you need a scout sentinel constantly spotting for them. Even with that against marines you will about 8 shots, 4 hits, call it 4 wounds and then they save 3 out of 4 roughly. Against gargoyles and orks it probably does well against due to the low save but even so. A few dead gargoyles or ork boys from what used to be a squad delete button is basically the same outcome as a squad of guardsmen

Fortunately, gaurd has easy access to outside Ap, so into the kind of targets you want to shoot this at, it will have plenty of ap. It is also twinlinked, which is great.

let me clarify blast X (times 4)

To me it's the AP- that dooms it. Either significantly lower the price or up AP to 1 and lower price slightly.

@@jacob5700 With Guard indirect fire vehicles, there's always the hull premium tax you pay. You're likely only to take fire / be charged in one turn of a game so why pay points for the artillery vehicle unless ut has a very good gun (which basilisks and manticores have) therefore it has to be costed appropriately, and anti-infantry artillery needs to be lower on the costing curve than high strength artillery so I totally agree, whatever happens it just has to be cheaper

It doesn't have a machine spirit

@@orthanus emotional damage!