THE Y2K CURSE | How Nu Metal Killed 90's Alternative Music 

Well, “Live” did give themselves the least searchable band name of all time...

As someone who works in IT I just wanted to say: The Y2K bug was a SERIOUS issue. The only reason "nothing happened" was because there were millions of dollars and thousands of work hours put into upgrading systems so that nothing would happen. It's entirely a myth that the bug was blown out of proportion. The risks were very real and very dangerous and it was a world wide concerted effort that kept things functional going into the new millennium. This is a perfect case of "If you do your job well, people won't know you've done anything at all."

Day after Y2K: every station in KC played Prince's "1999" for a week straight, and when they finally stopped, all the stations had changed their formats. The weirdest part was that no one seemed to notice but me. I would ask people what they thought about, what was to me, this HUGE shift, and all I ever got as an answer were these heads cocked sideways like confused dogs. They simply hadn't noticed that the Flaming Lips etc had just been replaced by the Backstreet Boys etc, en masse and across the country. Like invasion of the body snatchers or something. Thanks for addressing these issues, Rick. I seriously felt alone in noticing these things. Your perspective and information are most appreciated.

The fact that a band like Cake got tons of radio play tells you just how crazy diverse the 90s music industry was

Rick's shirt really ties the room together.

I am forever telling everyone how the Telecommunications Act was the worst thing to ever happen to popular music.

The fact that the the major Media outlets in America went from being owned by 50 companies in 1983 to SIX(!) in 2011 should be absolutely bone-chilling. Everyone complains about the tech giants now, but they're just benefiting from the loosening of enforcement of competition standards over the the course of decades. I never thought to associate this with the increasing homogenization of music, but it certainly makes sense. It's happening right now with movies too.

I'm surprised REM wasn't mentioned among the casualties! Something we don't talk enough about 90's alt-rock is how wonderfully ORGANIC/roots-y it was. So much Hammond B3, maybe a little mandolin, etc. When that scene died, pop music lost those organic elements, besides maybe some John Mayer, and anything country-ish. That said, as a big fan of heavy music, it's fun now to reminisce about Nu-Metal decades later. I quickly got swept up in the craze in 1998 as a 12 year-old, but by 2001, "Nu-Metal" became quite the dirty-word/insult/punchline among metalheads until "emo" blew up ~2005-06. Looking back though, I can't deny the *massive* influence Nu-Metal had in shaping my taste in heavy music, even if I would never listen to it nowadays. Thanks, Rick!

Also important to note the split between Alternative and what would become Indie Rock around this time. Between 1999-2001, records like Modest Mouse's Moon and Antartica, Radiohead's Kid A, The Strokes This Is It were all coming out, and a few years later Arcade Fire, Yeah Yeah Yeahs and LCD Soundsystem would get big. But these bands were driven by music blog on the internet like Pitchfork and not radio play. I remember in 2002 the rock stations were still playing Papa Roach and Incubus, but all cool kids were listening to Interpol, Wilco and Spoon on their iPods - which were also released in 2001. Maybe it wasn't just consolidation in radio, but the end in relevance in radio?

Things got REAL corporate. Especially those Eddie Vedder clones.

I'd add Oasis survived the curse as well. They just couldn't survive each other.

I'm happily stuck in the 90s 🥰 I still make mixed CDs (lol) and every day on my commute to uni, I listen to my 90s playlists: Soundgarden, AIC, RATM, STP, Faith No More, Greenday, Offspring, Filter. Best era of music, hands down! 🎵

It wasn't a subgenre that killed "grunge". It was the record industry, itself. They didn't know when to quit. They signed everybody with facial hair and a sad song. They went for quantity over quality.

This is one of the only times I’ve ever heard anyone discuss Live. So huge when I was in college, and then nothing.

Important element: Napster and the internet. The rise of mp3s was a direct backlash to that corporate control of what people were hearing. Post-communications act, what people heard felt extremely controlled. A lot of the bands you listed were mid to late 90s bands, the waves of music after grunge that was largely middle of the road quality. Labels were making one hit bands and selling a ton of singles, while also tricking the public into the album sales. Not a great amount of quality albums in that period, but plenty of one hit wonders. Those bands may have had more than one single chart, but nobody can remember what those songs were. They were carefully released onto radio and then normally tied into movies or commercials. It was painfully obvious how controlled everything was. Just some examples, from working record stores at the time: Sugar Ray's first hit was a Sublime vibe song. The rest of the album was entirely Nu Metal. People kept returning the album. Sugar Ray changed their whole sound only to have the plug pulled on them when radio stations went all Nu Metal. Jewel has a great album, but it was not high production. They redproduced her album and put the new productions into films. She charted high largely after her release. They had to rerelease her album with the new production because the consumers wanted the movie versions. Basically making one album sell twice per consumer. And then mp3s get loose on the internet and you could find music for yourself. Changed a great many things.

Cake is still so f'ing good. A singular band. Nobody was like them or has been since.

i really liked that Days of the New album... Touch Peel & Stand, Shelf in the Room, Downtown... great 90's acoustic songs

I remember when the telecommunications act passed. It effectively killed radio with personality and character, and dispensed with whatever airs and aspirations to artistic and aesthetic credibility radio had left. Streaming finished the job. I worked at a rock station and an "alternative" rock station from 1996-2000. Got out just in time...

You forgot a big one: The Smashing Pumpkins! Pretty much the biggest band in the world in the mid 90s.. Sure they kept going after 2000 but never really hit those heights again

You forgot the curse of Silverchair and they said they would make it up to you in the year 2000

The "post grunge" mid90s of the listed bands in the vid were a more accessible, sunnier side of alternative rock, with the ska pop punk of No Doubt skating into things too. I guess they were marketed as more radio friendly, video appealing than Seattle's first half of the decade dominance. They had a shinier, happier image and a more marketable sound that filled the post Nirvana void, and the younger crowd lapped it up. It carves an interesting bridge in the mid90s, that then leads to Korn and nuMetal in general. This mid90s scene devides the decade in half in a way. You get Seattle, and Big Stadium rock of GnR, and in hip hop:Gangsta Rap, Boyz 2 Men RNB. Then, after the "mid90s Bridge", its still the angst that grunge got going, only boiled and burrowed further down with NuMetal's downtuned chug. Throw in more parental targeted angst in there, too. Goth and shock rock was industrialized with Marlyn Manson antics. Pop meanwhile, was the resurgence of boy bands and Britney. The excess of 80s indulgences was back in a way all the same, through the frat boy humour of Limp Bizkit and nuMetal's leanings back to rock an' roll lifestyles. This is a brilliant discussion, worthy of many more time to listen to RIck's excellent analysis. The 90s were a fascinating decade in its "Two Halves" like that.

Oasis were ignored by rock radio too because they didn't fit in with that new aggressive format. Meanwhile, they were huge in England. "Wonderwall" was all I ever heard from them until 2002, when a friend of mine introduced me to the album "What's the Story(Morning Glory)". I later discovered their first album "Definitely Maybe". Both of these albums are masterpieces that were completely ignored by the radio stations I listened to in the 90s.

I remember early 2000s when the only rock radio station in my city became a reggaeton station over night. No warning. It was devastating.

I also love the Throwing Copper album from live. I bought the CD back then and listened to it in the car. 25 years and few cars later, the CD is still in there. I still enjoy listening to it. Great album👍🏻

311 never stopped. They've been churning out great albums all along. Sure, they aren't mainstream anymore, but you could probably count on one hand the bands from that era that still are...

A big factor in Third Eye Blind's demise was when Kevin Cadogan was pushed out of the band following the recording of 'Blue'. His guitar parts made a MASSIVE difference for that band.

Surprised you didn't mention the affects of Napster and how that completely changed the game in the music industry. You had unsigned bands such as Dispatch with a huge following just from file sharing.

Blur "disappeared" mostly because Gorillaz took off in 2000, at least that's what I believe.

I think the last true "popular" rock movement that happened was in the early 2000s, with bands like the White Stripes, the Killers, the Strokes, Franz Ferdinand...groove driven retro rock. After that, rock officially died as a "popular" music genre, there hasn't been a pop rock movement since.

"They wish they were Korn, "I" wish they were Korn." That's hilarious. Consolidation and centralization kills everything. Back in the day a radio DJ could make a band successful. Just keep playing their records. But the 2000s was all about every station playing the same songs.

2:22 Blur was FAR more successful in their home country than they ever were here in the US. Damon Albarn formed the Gorillaz in 2001 and has had HUGE success with them for the 20 years since. I would say they don't necessarily fit in that category. Also, 311's biggest hits were after the year 2000, though I would agree their best stuff was before 2000.

Great video. Man, that took me down memory lane!

Collective Soul and LIVE are my two favorite bands ever. I love and am proud that Collective Soul has never gone away after all this time. In terms of charting and what not... yeah, I guess they don't really climb up there. But I'm looking forward to new stuff from them. And LIVE broke up but I hear are back together now

Amber was 311's biggest song, 2001. Love Song was pretty big as well, 2004.

Worth noting the relationship between Blur and Gorillaz here.

Third Eye Blind still one of my favorites that I listen to all their stuff up now I believe they're bass player not the original bass player.. but the bass players in the band on the past few records has recently passed..if this is the case my condolences anyways I just wanted to say props to Third Eye Blind

Respect for mentioning telecommunications act of 1996

There was a lot of great alternative rock in the mid/late 90s (The Catherine Wheel, Curve, Eels, Hum, Built To Spill, Spiritualized, Superchunk, Supergrass) but, like you said, radio wouldn't play them. Our local alternative station seemed to play that terrible Metallica cover 'Turn The Page' every hour but ignored a lot of great music.

Just for the sake of conversation, 311 is still alive and doing relatively well by carving out their own niche and by doing it all themselves. kinda like dave matthews band they have a loyal following and 311 releases very listenable albums every few years.

and Morphine. Mark Sandman died in 1999 and that ended 90's music for me.

You finally mentioned The Verve, probably my favourite band. What you missed in this analysis including them was that they broke up due to personal problems-namely, their wives not getting along if I remember correctly-rather than popularity issues; they were still popular in the United Kingdom after breaking up and later got a top spot at Glastonbury in 2008 during their brief reunion. That said, you should definitely do a video on one of their singles from _Urban Hymns_ or _A Northern Soul_ to dissect exactly what made them sound so good and unique.

Green Day had a pretty crazy comeback in 2004. I think they really did a good job capitalizing on pop punk being such a big thing at the time. Before then they were still around and releasing singles, but they were still mostly known for Dookie.

Deftones- did not disappear !! Don’t forget.

You need to write a book. You have such AWESOME stories. Or put out a DVD with some of your stories. I'd buy it!! I love listening to you and I'm sure other people would love this as well!!

I wouldn't have put 311 on that list. They had multiple albums after 2000, that generated quite a bit of success for the band. One of the biggest hits they've ever had is Love Song. And that was definitely in the early to mid-2000s.

You forgot Beck!!! He survived Y2K! His style is so eclectic and ever-evolving that you could do a whole episode on the unsung (until lately) musical genius and influencer.

What happened to Blur? Gorillaz happened.

You're mentioning a lot of great bands from the 90s. Thanks for the memories.

2:24 - Happy you mention Dada. An incredibly underrated Trio of great writers-instrumentalist-singers who unfortunately had too much 'roots' and 'tradition' in their high musicianship and as such were overlooked by the new and 'hip' thing called Gunge, which means they never made it big as I believe they deserved. Dada's 1992 debut 'Puzzle' is a must have record for anyone who enjoys uncompromising good songwriting, well crafted and very well executed. A gem of a record.

What I find interesting: almost every band being put as an example for bands that didn‘t make it (except Bush, Alanis Morissette and Blur) weren‘t present on MTV Europe and were mostly unknown here. (I only know most of them because MTV aired the US Top 20 once per week, which I found very intersting and liked to watch.) Speaking of Germany, you had to order records from bands like Goo Goo Dolls or Mighty Bosstones in shops, they usually weren‘t on display in the shelves. Whereas bands that, according to your list, stayed successful, were, I wouldn‘t say „big“, but known in Europe. Green Day and Blink 182 were big. They had several singles being played on heavy rotation in commercial radio, Weezer and Creed at least were One Hit Wonders (With Arms Wide Open, Buddy Holly) But all of these mentioned examples were bands that Alternative music magazines would do stories about - and if you stayed up long enough, you could even see their videos on MTV‘s Headbangers Ball or Alternative Nation (Tool, Incubus, Korn)

Urban Hymns is an album I can listen to straight through and it takes me back to my College days. Loved that album

The 90’s were the most musically diverse decade in history and that made it great. There hasn’t been much musical innovation since then.

The growing monopolies of the world have done us no favors..

Nu Metal was apart of the Alternative music scene. Alternative music began in the late 80’s with bands like Faith No More, Jane’s Addiction, Beastie Boys, Melvins, RHCP, 24-7 Spyz, Living Colour, King’s X, Primus and then in the early 90’s you had bands like Pantera, Nine Inch Nails, Nirvana, Soundgarden, Alice In Chains, Pearl Jam, Tool, Rage Against The Machine, Smashing Pumpkins, Helmet, Biohazard, White Zombie, and many more joining the Alternative scene. Nu-Metal was like a love letter to all the previous bands I mentioned that came out in the late 80’s and early 90’s. In the mid 90’s with the death of Kurt Cobain, Pearl Jam going on hiatus, and Alice In Chains and Soundgarden pretty much splitting up, Grunge was seen as dead, apart from the Post Grunge bands in Bush, Silverchair, Tonic, Live, Days Of The New, Our Lady Peace, Collective Soul, Candlebox, and then Creed and Nickelback later on, that were heavily influenced by the Grunge acts. Nu Metal came from the underground that loved and was influenced by the late 80’s and early 90’s Alternative Rock/Metal acts, bands like KoRn, Deftones, Incubus, P.O.D and Snot that were apart of the early underground Nu-Metal scene was experimenting with different styles that they were influenced by, and most of those influence came from bands like Faith No More, RHCP, Pantera, White Zombie, Helmet, Nine Inch Nails, and others. Then you had Limp Bizkit that took the Nu Metal formula and took it to the US mainstream in 1998, Nu Metal worked so well in the mainstream because it wasn’t only aggressive and angry music, but it was also very groovy and danceable. What Nu-Metal did was take the baton from Grunge and ran with it, you could say Nu-Metal was just a more angry, urban, upbeat and danceable version of Grunge. Nu Metal didn’t kill any of the Alt/Post Grunge bands at the time, in fact it helped it. Not only that but Nu-Metal helped bring in heavier bands into the mainstream like Slipknot, Coal Chamber, and System Of A Down to MTV with the success of Limp Bizkit, mirroring what Nirvana did almost a decade earlier. What killed Alternative Rock/Metal music was music critics that hated the Rockstar behaviours of some of the Nu-Metal bands like Limp Bizkit, by 2004 Alternative Rock/Metal music was dying. Then what fully killed the Alternative Rock/Metal scene was the revival of PoP Punk and the arrival of Emo in the mid to late 2000’s, the Emo movement was basically saying that the 90’s and early 2000’s Alternative Rock/Metal scene was dead.

Have you listened to some of those bands recent albums? Toad the Wet Sprocket got back together and some of their new songs are better than their old stuff. Glen Phillips has a solo career and I love most of his songs. A lot of these bands didn't go away, they just weren't played as much.

Rick, love that you gave a shoutout to The Verve - I feel like A Storm In Heaven is a criminally underrated album... and holy cow Nick McCabe as a guitarist...!

311 needs to be on the second list. They’re still going strong and are always in the top ten charts when releasing albums. Maybe not big label big but definitely independent success for sure.

311 has continued to put out albums regularly with success and has a large fan base. Some of thier best stuff has been recently with Mosaic and Voyager, plus same line up for over 30 years.

I think bands like The Strokes, The Killers, Arctic Monkeys and all those indie guys were the nail in the coffin for 90s bands as these guys brought back a classic rock and new wave sound.

Deftones they not change , since 90s they are constantly improving our world of music

Rick, I would love to hear your take on the Brit Pop/Manchester scene that gained traction in the early early 90's. Stone Roses era. Like what you thought of the music, your favorite bands, who the main producers/production teams were behind it, and what happened to it.

I find it kind of odd that you never mention post punk revival bands, in this video or your other videos. The strokes, killers, Interpol, arctic monkeys, franz ferdinand. All massive bands with huge followings and incredible records.

Anyone remember when Alternative used to be called “College Rock”? Haha. Always thought that was an apt description at the time.

Love all these bands from 90's. Listen to them all still. Pearl jam, AIC, Soundgarden, Foo fighters, Incubus, RHCP, Smashing Pumpkins, RATM, Linkin Park......soooo many that I will continue to listen to as long as I'm alive ♥

Amazing how U2 navigated since 1980 outside of any fashionable genre , and they came out clean into the 2020 's already , millions of followers still waiting for their next album with the same passionate feeling of their finest years , my respects for that Band.

Music history is seriously something I'd like to see more of on this channel. This is such a service to musicians to gain perspective from

Sorry, I couldn’t pay attention to the message because you weren’t wearing a black T-shirt. LOL

Thanks for the kind words for Counting Crows, one of my favorite bands ever.

311 kept going hard. Cruises, festivals, 311 DAY and some real banger albums

Rick, what about the influence of indie rock in the 2000's?! I think you're ignoring an important era of music. An era with a lot of variety: alternative rock roots: the Strokes, Interpol, Libertines, White Stripes etc. Radiohead influence: My Morning Jacket, Grizzly Bear etc. Neutral Milk Hotel influenced folk rock: Decemberists, Okkervil River etc and some original/combination of the above: Death Cab for Cutie, Arcade Fire, Deerhunter etc. This indie push (and this is just a small sampling off the top of my head) was huge and very influential for its time. I am curious to know what you think of this genre. Thanks.

311 is no longer commercially "successful", but continues to put out music. They also have one of the largest and most fervent fan bases next to the Dead and Phish, and tour every year

Hey Rick, why don't you ever talk about Blind Melon? They were a stand out guitar band with a great singer and very interesting in the way the 2 guitars interweaved their parts together over the progression. I think Soup is one of the most underrated albums of the 90's.

Man, I never thought I'd hear you talk about The Verve, Urban Hymns is a classic. Would love to see a WMTSG on them.

"Third Eye Blind" was one of my favorite 90'd bands. They had the catchiest damn songs.

I love that you put 'A storm in heaven in there', a record that definetly deserves more spotlight in the public. But the story of the Verve is very sad, it comes down to Ashcrofts ego, not admitting to the importance of Nick McCabe. I don't think they directly fall into your category, it's just a timing overlapse. Awesome awesome topic Rick. As a huge music lover who owns about 3000 discs, you made me really happy, by sprinkling some life into this publically conceived dead fish topic :D

The strokes man!!! Give em a go Rick. Never heard you mention them. I feel like they had a hand in making some 90’s band sound somewhat redundant. Did for me anyway.

You could probably say this of just about any decade though, no? I mean The Beatles didn’t put out any new music after the 60s and Howard Jones didn’t have any hits after the 80s, but that doesn’t mean they were cursed. Fashion is fashion, even when it’s musical. I’d venture to say that artists with mainstream success lasting beyond a 5-10 year period are by far the exception, not the rule.

311 still around, original lineup since late 80s, still releasing tunes.

"The music of rebellion makes you want to rage. But It's made by millionaires who are nearly twice your age". -Steve Wilson

Throwing Cooper was such a good album

To be fair to 311, arguably their biggest hit, "Amber", came out in 2001 and they also had a big hit in their cover of "Love Song" in 2004 in the movie Fifty First Dates. "Don't Tread on Me" also came out in 2005.

In this age of Auto Tune, I can't wait for the next "purge."

311 should be moved to the 2nd list. Their concerts are still pretty massive and they had album success and big singles after 2000.

Damon Albarn of Blur went on to arguably greater success in the 2Ks with Gorillaz.

This makes me really think back about Edwin McCain. He was huge for about 2 years and then just disappeared. So much talent and amazing song writing skills. I was a kid that grew up on Metal but for some reason Edwin really reverberated with me.

Dang! I've been buying 311 music for the last 20 years and didn't know. :)

I remember seeing Hootie & the Blowfish in concert promoting their final album. They pleaded with the audience to call their local radio stations and ask them to play the NEW songs from their latest album. They complained about how radio stations would only play their early hits. Such a shame radio has become so homogenized.

I don't understand any of this. Yet I am terribly fascinated.

Corporate consolidation certainly led to fewer options and less risk taking, but what made it truly more devastating (culturally) was the novel Mp3 virus, from which we have not and may never recover. The best songs of the last 20 years are sitting on hard drives, gathering pixel dust.

great video Rick! I loved the late 90's of rock that seemed to disappear overnight with the new millenium

I think ur reverence for the '90s is very well placed. As a HS grad in '93, my music was/is Grunge & Alternative, but for me, the '90s was the greatest decade for music because of the diversity. It's the only period of time, that I can think of, where so many different generas shared the common consciousness.

311 wasn't part of the Y2K curse. "I'll be here awhile" 2001, "Amber" 2002 (US GOLD), "Love Song" 2004 (#1 on alt charts), "Sunset in july" 2007, All doing well on the charts and those are just a few singles to name a few.

311 may not get a lot of radio play these days, but they are putting out new albums every couple years and touring to big crowds every summer. 🤷🏻‍♂️

As a 2002 born, I can’t speak on this lol, but I do think the year 2000 and on, I noticed a lot less alternative music on the charts. A lot of which my dad introduced me to, he’s around the same age as Rick.

It wasn't so much that 'the people' wanted more nu-metal, but the new gatekeepers of radio decided that this was what 'the people' were going to have. 'Let them eat bizkit!'

Rick seems to have a massive blind spot for Indie Rock and Post-Punk Revival/Garage Rock. If you ask me, these are the albums that killed 90’s Alternative: 1) The Strokes “Is This It” 2) The White Stripes “White Blood Cells” 3) Interpol “Turn On The Bright Lights” 4) The Killers “Hot Fuss” 5) Spoon “Girls Can Tell” 6) Death Cab For Cutie “Transalanticism” 7) The Shins “Oh, Inverted World” 8) Yeah Yeah Yeahs “Fever To Tell” and there were suddenly dozens of other bands that solidified the scene more toward ‘04 and ‘05. (Franz Ferdinand, Arctic Monkeys, Arcade Fire, The National, Vampire Weekend) Alternative radio got even further splintered by the emo bands that got big in the early 2000s as well as Lo-Fi Punk and Punk Pop. The rise of music blogging made everything exponentially more niche, whereas guitar driven music in the 80’s and 90’s was almost exclusively hair bands and grunge. Broadband Internet became available to way more people and people were eager to explore different sounds.

It makes me think of the story of how the Swedish band Roxette broke into USA. The band was a succes in Sweden, but the record company didn't have faith in the for a big promotion in USA. Then one day an american kid, who had been an exchange student in Sweden, insisted that the local radio played the record he had brought all the way from Sweden. When the radio played it, the lines blew up. Everybody wanted to hear that track again and so Roxette's international career was born. Think about it, one kid and one radio station. This is the sort of thing that doesn't happen today.

Since the beginning of charted music, there have been “one-hit-wonders”. That’s just the music business. There are a myriad of reasons why bands that were once hot are now not; like personalities, ego, drugs, managers/handlers, work effort , talent, another band becomes more popular, and luck/timing. It is what it is. You can stick a pin in any decade and ask the same question. There might be some merit to your media consolidation theory. It will be interesting to see how streaming music services affect which bands make it past the 2020’s.

Could you do a video on the mystery of Nickelback? Why does everyone hate them but they’re so successful? Is there anything good about them from your perspective? Why do they have the public perception they have? I’m interesting in how you’d weigh in on this! Also, any options on the music of Fuel? I feel like their first to records were genuinely good. I’m so curious what you’d think.

Tonic is highly underrated. Even their acoustical stuff is strong and they have some outstanding lyrics.