I adore the whole scene of Frank wanting to invite friends over and being like "well too late, I'm already doing it" and the hard cut from ". . . You WHAT?!" to Joel and Tess deadass having a lunch party on their lawn. And then Joel just being like "I get that you don't like this, I wouldn't like it either; but we can help each other and get that gun out of my face."
Yeah I really liked that! Was nice to show some of that conflict in their relationship. One man very active and eager to develop Bill's Town, the other very conservative and wanting things to stay the way they are
That was such a cool scene, just Frank and Tess sitting opposite each other loving every second and Bill & Joel sitting opposite each other looking like they want to shoot themselves in the face lol. Poor boys.
Every time I think about this episode, I find another aspect that I love. Throughout the episode it's hinted that Bill thinks he'll die before Frank, and that he's afraid Frank can't survive without him. Then in the end, he realizes that he can't survive without Frank. This episode was peak filmmaking. The editing was so elegant, you didn't how well it supported the story, and the acting was amazing! Offerman deserves an Emmy for this performance
I loved this episode, and I'm happy they didn't shy away from the intimate moments between Frank and Bill. I picked up on the dynamic from the start and my husband was like "what?" And then they kissed and I was like I KNEW IT! I'm happy there's representation and it was so sweet. It was brutally sad too, but I appreciated the end as my mother also chose to die once her MS became unbearable
So sorry about MS taking your mom. I have a dear friend who has struggled for decades with MS. Ironically, my wife and I met her on a bike training with her husband for the MS 150 here in Texas. MS is beyond exhausting for them both. Her husband loves her completely. They moved away to Chicago so we aren’t as in touch as we once were. But seeing first hand how MS plays out, I believe that we should have the choice to make our exit when life literally becomes unbearable.
Apart from all you said I think this episode reminds us of the daily life in a post-apocalyptic world. Using Bill and Frank to show how life goes on even in under these conditions was brilliant IMO. For Ellie this is the only world she has ever lived in. They do a great job of showing how alien some things from before are to her.
The latest episode is my favourite so far. Even though we know that Frank and Bill won't make it out alive, we still get to really know and connect with them.
Great insight. I played the game. Yes, at first I was a bit puzzled by the decision to move the focus to these two men. But once I decided to drop the expectations and just let the story be told I found this episode very moving. Yes, some of the more intimate moments made me a bit uncomfortable but that’s on me and my heterosexual preferences. Seeing these two people find their way, finding meaning in a shattered world, was a testament to the human need for love and connection and the ability to find that. The conclusion was sweet and rending. The lesson about life’s meaning being found in each other, and the protection we give each other, resonated deeply. This episode underscored Joel’s own pain and the path to meaning that he needs to recover. Just amazing.
I think (as a fellow hetero) the sex scenes were more uncomfortable not because you're hetero (although it may have contributed a little bit) but rather because they were filmed in a way to clearly show how clunky and uncomfortable Bill was. You could see he wanted it, but he was also very awkward and tense about acting upon it. You couldn't but empathize with that, hence the unease. Homosexual sex/kissing shown as fun (e.g. in the early episodes of It's a sin or in Sex Education) is likely far less uncomfortable to watch for heteros.
@@berlineczka Yeah, I think the "clunkiness" did feel awkward, especially for Bill. I would argue with the "couldn't empathize" bit though. Seeing him cross that threshold of discomfort was a moment of empathy *and* discomfort for me -- the discomfort most especially out of empathy.
@@DougAlexanderInTexas I wrote "couldn't but emphasize", also exactly what you wrote: the scene made you emphasize and thus gave you second-hand discomfort.
I don't normally comment on RU-vid but I wanted to say I love your scene analysis, especially the formal analysis of mise en scene and shot length and all that fun stuff. I'm a film student and I'm currently obsessed with TLOU so your analysis series is so up my alley, so thank you !
People who complain that this episode added nothing to the plot forget (or don't know) that the Bill section in the game added nothing to the plot either besides Joel and Ellie getting a car. The hostility between Ellie and Bill, with Joel stuck in the middle, was fun, but it didn't add to the plot. Bill by the end of that chapter just leaves, and that's that. He's never even mentioned other than one or two lines in the sequel, he just disappears from the story entirely. This episode felt like giving a happy send-off to a character who's fate was originally left completely blank, while also having it reflect on Joel. Both versions of Bill do; in the game he's a dark (darker) reflection of Joel, and in the show he's a light reflection.
If I'm being honest I think the episode was better than the Bill section of the game. As a queer person that bit in the game left a bad taste in the mouth, and they seem to reference the issue with the game in the episode when Bill says to Frank "this isn't some tragic suicide at the end of the play", or at least that is how I took it. It was so nice to see a rather healthy *and* imperfect gay relationship on screen, and one where they both took healthy control over their own lives by marrying (important bc in this universe gay marriage would never have been legalized in the US) and by dying together on their own terms in a peaceful way. Great video and I look forward to seeing you cover the rest of the series.
I very much enjoyed your analysis of this episode. It may be a standalone story, but it’s deeply thematically linked to the rest of the series. Also, the writing and acting were both absolutely excellent. I felt like I watched a whole film by the time it was over. This, along with episode 8 of HotD, are the most moving episodes of TV that I’ve seen in a long time.
I enjoyed both the show’s episode and your episode about it! I completely missed how these two stories parallel each other and foreshadow the future events and dilemmas. I saw it as Joel’s darkest moment, leading to a start of connection with Ellie in the next episode. Also, I loved Bill’s thoughts vs. Joel thoughts at 10:02 Great video!
I remember a review of _TLOU 2_ by an army dad type guy, where he vehemently defended Joel's SPOILERS in the end of the first game, and his thing was "Walk away and live without baby-girl? Without baby-girl, THERE IS NO 'LIVING'. In my playthrough ALL those [SPOILERS] were dead." I felt like Bill's altered path here sets that up as Joel's mentality.
The lesson you got from this wonderful episode--that relinquishing control enriches your experience--is something I hope the Gamers™who froth at every single deviation from the game one day appreciate.
ADDITIONAL THINGS!!! 1) Use the code TREE for 40% off World Anvil with the link worldanvil.com/?c=mltt 2) Hope you enjoyed this video, I feel like I could've worded things a little better and gone further with it but hey! I did it all in one day. Interdependence is a beautiful thing. Often people see it as a weakness to sacrifice some of their control and independence but it doesn't have to be. It can be the very best of things. Watching this very independent, guarded, tough man so very quickly peel away into showing his vulnerability was an absolute delight. 3) I think the bit that affected me most was seeing this older Frank, who has clearly painted lots of pictures of Bill, suddenly unable to properly finish his painting. The frustration of that. Plus the complete helplessness it is for Bill to watch this man he's been devoted to protecting, slowly fading away to illness, and knowing there's nothing he can do to prevent it. Few things make you feel as powerless as that. It's always, always such a painful experience but their love shines through all of it. 4) Eagle-eyed viewers may have noticed some similarities here to my video on Guillermo Del Toro's Pinocchio...sort of similar anyway, it was a weird coincidence. You can watch that video if you're interested. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-plKG-IaOVjQ.html
This is good stuff. I’m new to the story, so I am able to take it in without worrying about the original narrative. I appreciate your thoughts on the emotional resonance created by this seeming tangent. I will say that rather than Control, I thought the central emotional theme was Fear, and how fear is modulated by purpose. Over and over, I found Bill presented as a deeply fearful person, and Frank fearlessly open and willingly vulnerable. Joel almost never seems fearful. But neither is he vulnerable.
Yeah that's a good point, certainly ties into it. The great conflict between Frank being so curious and Bill being so conservative is the root for a lot of what works here
Based on experience - there comes a day where you can't face being betrayed by your body one more day. There is no 'discussion' - something as banal as you can't face having your arse wiped by someone else one more day. It's not 'rational' to an outsider, but the loss of agency to oneself isn't gradual, it's falling off a cliff.
I loved this episode the never before seen kind of specific representation we got with a male gay couple surviving together in an apocalypse I just really loved this and representation was one of the reasons I loved both the games so this episode just brought me back to why I loved the games so much
I played the game and I loved this episode. If I just wanted the videogame I would play it again. I want an adaptation to be faithful but adding to it, giving me something more. And to have this love story in the midst of this post-apocalyptic nightmare is so faithful to the spirit of the game!! Besides, I felt they were teasing things from the game. In the game, we never meet Frank because they had a fight and he dies hating Bill... So the time they had a huge argument I was like "this is when that happens"... But they surprised me. And I'm happy for it.
Same here. Even though I love the main actors, I really just wasn't getting invested in yet another zombie apocalypse drama. This episode was one of the best single episodes of television that I've ever seen, and changed my decision to not watch the rest of the series. I hope there are more surprises like this to come.
Basically in the game, you only meet Bill - Frank has already left him, and has committed suicide after getting bitten by one of the infected. You find a suicide note that basically says "still better than putting up with you for another day, fuck you Bill." So I mean, really very different to the show, and there was never any real emphasis on Bill, he got maybe 10 minutes of screen time in cutscenes and stuff, and he was definitely portrayed more like pre-Frank Bill than end-of-life Bill. They re-wrote his story significantly and shifted a lot of the focus for the show, which is why a lot of people dislike it. That said, TLoU isn't Just Another Zombie Drama, the zombies are part of the setting, they're not the point of the story. The story is very much about "the world sucks, happiness is suffering, you gotta figure out how to make it worthwhile or you might as well just kill yourself now and safe yourself the longer, slower pain." In the game, Bill was another reminder of what Joel stood to lose, but in the show he became something of a beacon of what Joel could achieve. The reformation means a hell of a lot to me, personally.
I only checked these videos at a glance since I hadn't seen the series and wasn't really planning to. Now that I am watching, and playing the game concurrently, it's really nice to go back to these and to see you unpack them! I didn't know how the game portrayed Bill in the game and I thought this episode was just the most beautiful. I also realized as I watched it that never in my life have I seen a relationship between two men being depicted so whole heartedly and tenderly on TV or in cinema, either sexually or romantically. Not that they're the first to do it, but still it must be such a rarity :(.
I'd love you to focus on AMC's The Terror main leads, Crozier and Fitzjames. From Crozier's passive aggressive nature and feeling how the world owes him something and Fitzjames running from his birthright by simply hammering in his adventures to other colleagues, only to find out he is actually everything he set himself up to be.
Love your content and these TLOU reviews are a great addition. I’d love to hear your thoughts on the saturation of media with apocalypse-themed content and the impacts it might be having on the psychology of the audience.
Not sure if this matters but I talked to a set decorator for the show on Reddit and apparently the backstory the art department came up with was that Bill never knew his father who was a hunter who left him and his mother when he was a child (so must of Bill’s guns where Bill’s dad’s), and Bill grew up with his chain smoking Protestant mom, constantly trying to be like the father he always imagined he had
when i originally saw the episode I thought it was a really charming filler episode but now having seen episode 9 i absolutely agree that it directly goes in with larger themes of the show.
I was thrown off a bit by the focus on Bill and Frank, but I really appreciated it taking its own path from the game. I don't want a complete 1:1 copy of the game...I can just replay the game. The show is an adaptation and as long as it's adapted with care, as this episode is, then it could be its own thing while still firmly The Last of Us (the set design has been remarkably uncanny when compared to the game.) The episode was heartwarming and sad with fantastic performances. I was looking forward to Nick Offerman's appearance and while it's too bad it's only one episode, it was quite impactful. Thanks for the breakdown of it.
On the control element, I think there's a missing piece that people sometimes overlook - the difference between wanting to be in control of a situation, and not wanting to be controlled by someone else. I don't think Bill wants to be in control of his own life as much as he doesn't want others to have control of his life because that scares him, so he has to take on that control of self even if he's not always comfy or happy or fulfilled that way. Frank gives him the ability to let go of some of that control, to let someone else be in charge in some of the areas Bill needs it, and to feel safe in doing so. Also, it's implied that the house (which is clearly a very expensive house filled with very expensive things and very traditional values) is his mother's house. Bill is repressed, in the closet, hypermasculine, scared and resentful towards society, and has a habit of shrinking into himself like a scolded child when he doesn't know what to do in a situation. IDK maybe it's just me but I can almost see his mum standing over his shoulder criticizing him for being improper. The plating of the meal, the wine pairing, learning the piano, presentation, those are all fine-dining, and Bill's gun collection isn't just prepping, it's hoarding, it's at the level where his bunker doesn't just provide physical safety, it provides emotional security as well. Kinda makes the "leave me alone/I'm so lonely" dichotomy.
Building on that with Joel... I mean, yeah, especially in light of episode 6 (light spoilers btw). He feels like he doesn't have as much control of himself as he should have and thus he needs more more always more, same as Bill in his paranoid hoarder stage of life. Speculative spoilers though, that's kind of the point of the franchise, to an extent. We only have so much control over the world and the world sucks, we need to be open to suffering because it's going to happen no matter what we do. He tries to demand control over Ellie, but ultimately she's the one who leads the relationship, he actually has virtually no control over her and seeing how he is with Tess and others, you can see he needs to fulfil that protector role, but he needs to "protect and serve" - he answers to Tess, but, just like Bill, he needs to feel safe to admit that, even to himself. In short, they're both shit-scared of being vulnerable, being weak, being hurt. Bill has learned over the last 20 years that it's worth it (within certain parameters), Joel's gotta spend the next 5 years figuring that out.
I've spoken to you directly on Patreon, but never commented on your channel before. I like this series. I barely watch any TV. And I've never played the game this is based on. But I really like the show. And I want to hear your take on it.
Absolutely love all of your videos. This is a great analysis and definitely brings out the many things I'd missed while watching! I thought the story line with Bill and Frank was lovely, and I'm so excited to see what you have to say about the coming episodes!!!
0:16 and I’m sure those people are the same ones who talk during the film then ask you what’s going on lol I’ve been “paranoid” like Bill. I had toilet paper, ammo, and food the whole pandemic. It’s just preparing for a rainy day. Homesteading. Making sure you can help a friend.
Objectively, the show scene was more emotional imo. Pedro & Bella played the scene to perfection, with more desperation and vulnerability in their lines. It’s my favorite scene in the game, and it was naturally more impactful as it was basically the first time we ever got such an emotional scene in video games
I loved this episode. I don't know how it matters much outside getting Joel and Ellie what they need to move on. Did they need to do that? No. It was an amazing story that helped build the world more.
I've weirdly seen a lot of people call this episode a waste of time or destruction of Bill's character, and I have a very hard time seeing it as either of those. This whole story serves as a foil for joel. It shows a relationship where someone who is very much like joel learned to let someone else in and care for them up to and including letting him die in the way he wanted. (game 1 veterans will know why this is important) It is to show us that there is still something to fight for. A story that is 100% tragedy without any good points is exhausting to viewers. It is called The Last of Us because it is a story about humanity and whether we even deserve to survive, or whether survival in a world like this CAN be worth it. Think of it in game terms - the game version was Bill's "bad end." This is the good one. We accept these things all the time in videogames - the same character takes a different path and we don't call it out as the characterization being destroyed. Change to this story does not mean it will change Joel and Ellie's story. The same lessons were learned, just in a different way, and I think retooling it to be presented like this is a lot better for a TV adaptation. Constant hopeless tragedy is exhausting and will leave viewers (especially those unfamiliar with the games) thinking there's no reason to invest in these side characters because they're just going to die. But this episode was something more than that, because we got to see that (flawed, difficult) happiness is possible, and maybe there is a hope for the world to return to normal in some places with hard work. Joel sees a few things here. He sees vulnerability he never wants to experience again because it hurts. He sees his own failures to protect Tess. There's the obvious foreshadowing that Ellie will become his person to protect. I think there is something to say about the inevitability of death in this world(via old age, sickness, murder, or infection) which may make some people hopeless, but it is still worth trying to live a good life rather than closing yourself off. The fact that Bill was a(n extreme) version of how Joel has closed himself off and still managed to let someone in and find happiness has some impact.
Thank you! I thought it was really shitty to spring a last day on Bill like that. Surely something's could've been enjoyed one last time with more than a day suddenly definitively being dropped like a bomb.
I liked the episode I thought it did a lot of world building that we couldn't get in the game while also making a cheeky reference at the notes from the game
I've seen people calling it tragic or sad, but I think it was a happy story. They got to pass in old age, after a long life where they were loved, with agency and dignity. This is something neither queer nor disabled/terminal characters are usually granted in media. The apocalypse happened in 2003. That is the societal framework they are coming from. One where gay marriage wasn't legal. One where initial meetings were often conducted through coding because being too open, too out, was dangerous. Especially in a small town. Bill probably had more genuine social interaction after the outbreak than beforehand. Because of small-town stigma and pre-2003 socially acceptable homophobia. From this perspective, the apocalypse gave them a chance at life they may not have gotten otherwise. Bill likely never would have known love. Frank brought beauty to Bill's life. As I have seen others say, Bill and Frank won the apocalypse. Your take was interesting, slightly different to others I have seen thus far. I have found the number of reactors very suspect of Frank really interesting. I get it to a point, but at a certain point I wonder if there are some biases in play. I think a lot of Bill's isolation is probably due to necessity rather than preference. Again, small town in pre-2023. He attempted playing his societally accepted part and failed. So found the next best expectation/role that society offered. Bill didn't want to be this person. But as much as you may want to change, you can only change so much of yourself. And Bill and Joel became friends. Even if they didn't want to call it that. Mutual respect. Mutual trust. Mutual care for the other. And Joel had the code. Watching Bill's arc was a great way to externalise Joel's internal arc, they are so similar. The show's story is exploring how love and relationships can be toxic. And this was a beautiful juxtaposition to that. I know it is different from the game, but I don't think it took anything away from the game. You still got to meet Bill - just Bill ending in a better place than the game's Bill. You got to meet Frank at all. Joel's and Ellie still got resources. And it was changed in a way to enhance the story. And game players get to experience something new. In the context of queer representation in media, including the "kill your gays" trope, I really appreciated this change. And the lack of bodies was really respectful of the story being told - it wasn't a story about their death. It was a story about their life and love. A comment on the game story I have seen is that due to the medium, a video game, and the inherent player interaction involved, the story and background often wasn't given a chance to hit. Because, with this game's mechanics you needed to get back to taking down the infected. Here the writers are taking advantage of this new medium. There will be plenty of fighting infected. But it really doesn't need to be as prevalent as it is in the game, because this is a show. Another change made due to the medium was the lack of need for masks, because faces are a really valuable resource in visual storytelling. Sometimes in apocalypse stories you can end up in a place wondering if the world is worth saving. The love story topped off with a sprinkling of Ellie's delight at the world showed what they are fighting for. Fun fact, Nick Offerman didn't have time in his schedule when he was sent the script. But his wife read it and informed him he was taking a role so they made it work.
This is such a beautiful analysis, but I think you're wrong about the lesson Joel took away. For me, it was NOT "I shouldn't let people in" but the opposite. I felt it was clear here instead, ironically, that Joel's heart cracked open when he read Bill's letter. At long last, he realized Bill was right. He let himself feel. He finally grieved for Tess -- so strongly he had to leave the room to silently get himself together. When he returned, he had decided to take Ellie himself, and gave her the rules, but almost right away, he was giving small smiles afterward at her jokes, and again in the car. He is allowing himself to care again. For me, this gorgeous episode is worth it not only for the beauty of Bill and Frank's story, but also for the way it opens Joel up to loving another person again. This is the point, to me, where Joel silently says, "Okay, I will try to care," in answer to Bill's challenge. And he succeeds (oh boy does he).
I think the thing that annoyed me so much about the change to Bill's story is that in the game he presents completely the opposite viewpoint on the central theme of loneliness and survival. In the game he's bitter and shut off from everyone, and acts as a kind of ghost-of-christmasses-yet-to-come for Joel by demonstrating both the pros and cons of isolating yourself emotionally - you might end up alone, but you survive as a result. It's a unique perspective within the story of the game, and it kind of makes sense for Joel to see it at that moment in his character arc, when he's that much more inclined to shut himself off from developing a relationship with Ellie. The show version of Bill and Frank is a cute enough little tale in its own right (if a bit saccharine for my tastes) but it ditches the 'this is what you could become' lesson in favour of a direct handwritten instruction to protect and love. It just struck me as a bit shallow in comparison, and I think Bill's impact on Joel's emotional journey is lessened as a result.
I actually think it gives the same message for Joel, just from the opposite angle Instead of "this is what you could become if you dont open yourself up to people" it's "this is what you cant become/have if you dont open yourself up to people"
@@thecatmangaming5503 well yeah, that's my point. The side characters in a story often embody different perspectives on the central theme. The perspective Bill offers in the game is the extreme example of the ultimate outcome of walling yourself off emotionally. Bill's town - in which he lives completely alone defended by booby traps - is the physical manifestation of that outlook. It's a unique viewpoint within the story of the game, and for my money a more interesting and emotionally affecting one.
@@thecatmangaming5503 Suppose you have somebody who is going through a hard time and is very tempted to drink away their problems. Let's call him Jack. In Universe 1, one of Jack's friends--who has never had a drinking problem and dislikes alcohol--says to Jack, "Now, don't you go drinking away your problems! You are better off staying sober! Take it from me, I've never been drunk and look how great my life has turned out!" In Universe 2, one of Jack's friends is an alcoholic who has basically destroyed his entire life: lost his family, lost his career, lives in the gutter, and still uses every bit of spare change to get another drink. In which Universe do you think Jack will be convinced not to drink? I would say it's Universe 2. Mere preaching is rarely very impactful for people. But when people see firsthand the consequences of bad decisions, that is MUCH more impactful in driving behavior and willingness to change. So I disagree. Having Bill's character act as a warning, rather than a role model, is more impactful, imo.
I'm quite the opposite, it was a welcome change from the stereotype of gay tragedy in relationships. Whose to say we won't see negative arcs for other characters based on the theme? I much preferred this to unrelenting tragedy, hell the ending is still bitter sweet.
You make some good points and interesting observations. I can appreciate what the writers were going for, and I can appreciate what they did manage to achieve in the episode. However, I still think the changes they made were not worth the problems they caused. I am willing to bet they could have done better with a few more rewrites. Firstly, let's not forget the purpose Bill as a character had in the original story. He was a cautionary tale there to show Joel and Ellie the logical conclusion of the most extreme end of the philosophy: "I won't ever let anyone get close enough to hurt me. I am better off alone." This is a philosophy that both Joel and Ellie share at the beginning of the game, and it's this philosophy they have to overcome. And Bill practically embodies that philosophy. Frank leaves because Bill is too selfish and unbearable to be around, resulting in Bill not being there for Frank when he needed it the most. As a direct consequence of his own choices, Bill ends up an isolated, bitter, and miserable man who failed to protect the people he loved due to his own desperate need for control. And that was on purpose. Likewise, Henry and Sam's story is meant to demonstrate a similar cautionary tale, but on the opposite end of the spectrum: "This person is my entire purpose for living. Without them, I am nothing." Showing both sides of the coin was important for the balance of the message. But these writers sacrificed that balance, probably without even considering what was being lost. So now, assuming that Henry/Sam's story plays out the same as in the game, we will be getting redundant stories about people who loved someone else so much that they killed themselves in order to not live without them. Aside from those thematic problems, this episode also had other problems. 1) The setting: Bill's Town. It totally undermines the tension/anxiety/brutality of the show's world. Bill and Frank basically live as if the apocalypse never happened. They spend their days enjoying a peaceful domestic lifestyle complete with nearly every modern comfort. The entire segment not only sabotages the tone of the series, but it also makes little sense logically. Not only do Joel/Tess choose to leave Bill's paradise to return to the Nazi-like regime of the QZ. But also, this town was there for 20 years with only 2 people there to protect their massive treasure trove, and the writers are wanting us to believe that huge armies of raiders would not have come busting in to steal it all for themselves? Yeah, sorry. It's too far fetched. I don't care how well fortified the location is, where there's a will there's a way. Especially with superior numbers against only 2 guys. Not to mention, it entirely undermines the significance of Tommy's community we see later in the story. Tommy had banded together with a large group of people to fortify and protect a town, and they had even barely managed to get electricity going. Yes, it took a lot of effort and manpower to maintain the town's security and provisions, but they managed it by working together. (Unlike Bill's place, which seems to have no problems with food/water/security at all with only one guy keeping up with literally everything) In the original story, the location felt like an oasis in a desert. Now, it will just feel like a dime a dozen. People will imagine that there's probably great places like that all over the country. Nothing special. 2) The creepiness/OOC factors. Let's pretend for a moment that Frank was a woman. Let's call her Francesca. Francesca stumbles upon some crazy guy's fortified town. She convinces him to invite her inside. He makes her dinner and pours her wine. She realizes that this guy is basically living in the lap of luxury and safety, but he's all alone. Probably lonely. So what does she do? Why, try to seduce him, of course. What else? She can't possibly leave now that she's found the ultimate jackpot. Yeah, sure, she's going to have to sleep with a complete stranger who could be a psychotic lunatic or cannibal for all she knows, but what other choice does she have? If this story sounds creepy to you with Frank as a woman, then I'm here to tell you that it's just as creepy when he's a man. Just saying. Also, why did Bill let this stranger into his hideout? He's an excessively paranoid man who built a literal secret shelter in his house before the apocalypse ever happened. These are not the actions of someone who is very trusting. And yet, he is totally happy to risk his life on this man he has never met? Either this is EXTREMELY OOC for no good reason, or the only reason Bill let Frank in was because he was attracted to Frank and was secretly hoping to get Frank in bed with him. Which highly ups the creepiness factor, imo. 3) The show expects us to believe that Bill and Frank are good people. In the game, there is no expectation. Bill is a total asshole, and the audience was fully intended to see him as one. But in this show, we are meant to see both Bill and Frank as generally good people just trying to get by. However, it's clear they are not. They are selfish people who decide to essentially horde a literal paradise all to themselves while the rest of the world burns. They don't even offer to allow their so-called "friends" Tess and Joel to live in the town with them. Bill kills people without a second thought, despite him not really having experienced any of the brutality of the apocalypse. Who knows how many regular people, not zombies, got caught in his traps and killed? Frank happened to fall into a non-lethal trap, but you really think that happened for every non-zombie person who happened to wander by? Doubt it.
It's hard to think that the directors just happily threw out Bill's story of the game like it was garbage. All of your points are valid, but I would bet anything that these directors tried everything they could to properly transfer that story to cinema. Bill's story in the game works for the game. Bill's story in the show works for the show so far. I think we can agree that Bill's story in the show could NEVER be in the game. Not only is your point about Henry and Sam spot on, but there would be no gameplay if the show's story was in the game. It's hard to say this because I truly wanted to see the game's story in the show, but I think the game's story is just not good cinema for a show. I'd rather the show go this route than ruin yet another game adaptation.
@@josephcarreon2341 I see your point. And I don't disagree that the sequence with Bill needed drastic changes for a TV adaptation, no denying that at all. I don't think it needed to match the game exactly, adaptations require changes for a reason. But those changes need to be well thought out to avoid damaging the core themes of the story they are trying to adapt. And I just don't think this sequence was as high quality as it could have been. After a bunch of rewrites, it could have been absolutely excellent. But as it is now, at least in my opinion, it primarily feels like a sudden departure into a different TV show for 45 minutes, before going back to Joel and Ellie. But also with it having potential to harm the story in the future (though no guarantees. For all we know, the writers may have totally rewritten the Henry/Sam sequence, meaning that my arguments are moot. And maybe the Tommy sequence has big changes, too. So we'll just have to wait and see.)
@@Lady_de_Lis I think the opposite. This story fills in an important question I had in the game. How did Joel and Frank get Bill's trust to begin with? We both know in the game this man is not people friendly enough to let anyone in his life. It just doesn't make sense. This new story really has no holes in the story imo. I can agree with your first point that this should've been a more awkward meet between Frank and Bill, but there's no real reason it really couldn't go the way it did in the show as Bill was alone for 4 years. That is a long time to have conversations with yourself. Idk. Different stories for different audiences. Both are still good, but the show knocked it out of the park for me.
@@josephcarreon2341 Tbh, I always believed that Bill and Frank had been together before the apocalypse and stuck together for as long as they could. But then, as they grew into different people (especially Bill) they just clashed too much and eventually split up. As for Joel and Bill, I always assumed that was entirely a matter of convenience and mutual need. Joel had something Bill needed, and Bill had something Joel needed. The end. No trust, just a purely transactional relationship. Joel had never even met or known about Frank in the game, and so it's clear Bill never trusted Joel enough to talk to him about his personal life. I'm glad you were satisfied with the episode's explanation, but to me, Bill's trust in Frank, Joel, and Tess still didn't make any sense. It felt a lot like a plot convenience, tbh. But that in itself was not the worst flaws this episode, for me. Not even close. I could forgive Bill's motivations being somewhat illogical if the rest of the episode was well written. Sadly, it was not. At least to me, for all the reasons I already stated in the first post.
There's a lot you say I somewhat agree with. I do have concerns that could become a problem later down the line. It's hard to say though when other changes further on may make it all work in ways we can't predict. We'll have to see. I'm hoping the peace we've had this episode is about to get massively rocked by the hunters. Done right, the stark contrast could make it more powerful. I'm hoping they adapt Henry and Sam's story a little different to align with the changes here. As for Bill taking in Frank despite his paranoia, I really liked that. The man's been entirely on his own for 4 years. The sheer loneliness of that, even when it goes against his own judgement. And as the point ultimately was: what the hell even is the purpose of surviving for the sheer sake of it? As for the creepiness of it. I've heard a lot of people say they found some of those scenes with Frank super tense for that exact reason. "Is this a man just trying to manipulate Bill?" I personally didn't feel that but that might just have been because I already knew who Frank was. The whole how they trust Tess and Joel thing as well. I get that being slightly annoying but I think it does mostly work. It's Frank ultimately who trusts them. I really liked the idea of bringing conflict into their relationship with the idea of Frank wanting to socialise with other people, and Bill not liking it. Honestly, I wanted them to make more out of that conflict and was a little disappointed when they didn't
its just the pure homophobes who are not happy with the episode. It's always in the game that Bill and Frank are "partners" in the game, which indicates they are more than friends. I also admit, im a slight homophobe specially when the concept of LGBTQ is being too forced in the story., but I still understand the beauty of such conecpts and story telling like this episode., its about love, companionship and finding a reson or purpose to live, specially in a dystopian world like the last of us. Its beautifully written and excellently acted., it also gave Joel another purpose to protect Ellie and later on love Ellie like his daughter. Last of Us is about the good and bad brought about by love., and if you are too homophobe to see the beauty of their love story., does the love for your father also gay? I guess not, cause love is LOVE.
I'm calling it now. They are going to write Joel as a villain who dooms the world. Episode 3 centers around a lovely gay couple, and while that is nice, it tells Mme the writers are probably more amenable to Druckman's interpretation of the first game's ambiguous ending. Ergo, Joel is the secret villain, and I think The Little Thought Tree hit the nail on the head as to his motivation; *control.*
@@recoveringintrovert717 when I watch a zombie show I don't want to see a soft porn romance akin to game of thrones. I spent the episode massively uncomfortable and it even looked like the actors were uncomfortable filming it.
@@sarahuher8358 soft porn? There was some kissing and there was no gratuitous nudity or anything. You saw no sex act at all in those scenes. I saw more on Ginny and Georgia. I saw more on the show Suits. On The Walking Dead, there was more explicit scenes where you actually saw sex depicted, and that was a zombie show. You just don't like that it was gay, is what I'm hearing. Gay people exist, so why wouldn't they be in your zombie show? This is a you problem. You're cringe. Oh, also the actor who plays Frank did waaaayyy more explicit gay sex in the White Lotus, so I think he was comfortable doing "soft porn"
@@recoveringintrovert717 two men in bed and they had the blowjob noises = soft porn. Game of thrones did the same thing with the gay baratheon dude. And bill looked uncomfortable as fuck in all those scenes to me. And in a zombie show I expect to see the characters navigate problems of finding what they need and dealing with zombies. The way the game did that part was massively more tasteful and you only knew bill was gay if you paid attention. Joel and Ellie needed a car battery and they had to work for it and the banter between Ellie and Bill was amusing.
@@sarahuher8358 the show is an adaptation. It won't be 100% like the game. A good adaptation expands on themes and character. This episode did a good job fleshing out the world. And yeah, we've come a long way since the first game was released. Things have progressed where Bill's homosexuality doesn't have to be subtextual. Noises don't equate to soft porn, but even if it did, that scene was nowhere near game of thrones where you actually see sex depicted and naked bodies. Like I said, The Walking Dead was a zombie show that had all the elements you are saying you want in a zombie show, but it also had even more explicit sex scenes. Lots of shows have the same level of "soft porn" scenes in them. So why is this one a problem? Because its two men? Bill the character had never been with a man before and was only with a girl once as a teen. Of course he was uncomfortable. That scene was very human. The actors were fine, otherwise they wouldn't have agreed to the role. You're projecting your own feelings onto the actors. And that, in 2023, is cringe. You have to evolve, or society is going to leave you behind. Either way, I know why you don't like this episode, and it's not because it's cringe. It's a beautiful story. You're just homophobic, and that's your misfortune.
"The gay agenda". I think we all know why you disliked this episode, and it isn't because it was unnecessary. The episode expands on the game's content. That's what good adaptations do. Flesh out themes and the world. And I hate to tell you this, but gay people exist and would survive alongside heteros in an apocalypse. The "gay agenda" is just the human agenda. They are allowed to exist, and not representing them is dishonest to the human experience.
Bill was gay in the game. The games center around a lesbian protagonist. I think if you're convinced the "gay agenda" is really a thing (the only agenda here is wanting to be seen as people with an equal value in having our stories told) then I really don't think you're as big a fan of the game as you think you are.
