There's NO such thing as 'Mass of the Ages'? 

When did Padre Pio say that? I would like to find the source.

@littlerock5256 I'm out right now...but I read a beautiful book called the The last Mass of Padre Pio...this is where I found this info. This book brought new appreciation and depth to the beauty of the Latin rite. God bless.

It's beside the point - Padre Pio would recognize the current missal and the 1962 missal as one and the same mass.

@@nealkriesterer It is known that Padre Pio did not offer the 1967 interim mass nor the 1965 mass and it is unknown whether he ever accepted the 1962. There is every reason to fully expect that Padre Pio would have rejected the missal of Paul VI, nor would he have considered it the same mass as prior to 1962.

That's another meaningless distinction - by the time those missals were published, St Pio was in his late 70s. Elderly priests weren't expected to learn the new rubrics. On the other hand, it's very telling that it's "unknown" what his opinion was on the 1962 missal and later changes. If it was such a terrible crisis, why didn't St Pio didn't say anything about it?

Actually the Latin Mass was formed about 600AD. The Original Mass of the Apostles were in the vernacular and many of the Eastern rites are closer than the Mass of the ages. The important parts of the Mass are the word and the Consecration. Both Masses when said correctly and with reverence and respect are valid. We have so much division, which Satan is very pleased, let’s try to unite. Both Masses are of value. I am a cradle Catholic who grew up with the Latin Mass and I understand and pray much more recently at the Novus Ordo because I can understand it and partake in the prayer.

The 1962 mass had the Canon altered.

@@katiedid8192 Just because it's Eastern doesn't mean that it's older. Our Roman rite mass is so old that it doesn't have the calling down of the Holy Ghost. It was formed before that controversy.

​@@JamesMartinelli-jr9mh The Easterns are much more conservative to additions, however. It shouldn't matter anyway. This sort of ****-measuring contest is not conducive and only fosters more division (where it isn't needed) in a time where we need unity.

@@katiedid8192 "How Christ said the First Mass" by James Meagher. BTW, the Roman rite does not have a calling down of the Holy Ghost - as in the eastern liturgies - because it was formed before the controversies ' over the Holy Ghost. "Just because it's eastern does not mean that it is older."

😢

I was brought up in a community of NO masses and have recently in the past two years joined Latin. Never in my whole city/ community networks of people that I know and have worked with (almost over 1000) have they ever said that. Even in schools. I think that is an unfair generalisation and leans towards a smaller community if people you know who are uneducated in masses. :(

of* people

@@spyroluver0951 I’m not making it up.

It’s not over yet!

Paul VI was a weak effeminate modernist, that's why he could not stop it. He allowed himself to be a pawn of Satan.

Agreed. Even Ratzinger, who referred to the Modern Mass as a “banal fabrication “ when Cardinal, never publicly offered The Mass of the Ages as the Supreme Pontiff. Who or what was he afraid of ?

@@WT-ShermanI would imagine he was afraid of the Jews. Jewish power was against the traditional liturgy.

When and where did Pope Paul VI show regrets?

That is how I understood communion in the hand as well.

The 1962 missal had the Canon altered.

🙌

The 1962 missal had the Canon altered.

Since the driving force of the Consilium was ecumenism, the Modern Mass was fabricated to be more welcoming to Protestants. They kept just elements intact to keep it valid.

The Novus Ordo is Catholic. It may resemble Protestant services but it’s 💯 Catholic in what it is.

The novus ordo mass is a Protestantized mass?

​@@MassoftheAgesI must disagree. I lost my faith for a long time because of the NO and it's weakness to represent the true and living God. Instead of people being focused on God and His real presence, in the mass, the church focused on the world and it's desires.

@@CatholicMailman yep. Just like what Luther and Cranmer wanted

Interesting!

Someone told me that the Personal Ordinariate rite is basically the Sarum rite. Is that true would you say? I genuinely have no idea. Not familiar with either

The Sarum “Use” was not a rite. It was a local expression of the ancient Roman Mass.

​@@deathstar2294 It's not the Sarum Use in and of itself. It draws from it, but also includes other source(s?) like the Roman missal. The Use of Sarum is indeed a local expression of the Latin rite, in actuality. Many who have attended (myself included) would loosely call it "TLM in English" and there's some truth to it

5:21 Codifying the Roman Rite, I believe is the correct terminology.

That was Pius V at Trent. That’s why the Mozarabic rite exists, for example, as it comes before that 200 year cut off. Whereas others may have been abrogated.

it's great to be curious about life and history 🙌 keep growing in learning :D

Consider that the papacy was located in Avignon instead of Rome for more time than the Novus Ordo has existed.

No

Continue to attend your Eastern Catholic Church. The various Catholic Churches are all holy and apostolic. Together they are one holy catholic and apostolic.

Not specifically, his assertion, however, is common enough to be argued against.

Some of his assertions were comical. One of his few examples of “the Mass was always changing “. Was the addition of St Joseph in the Roman Canon.

@@WT-Sherman The 1962 altered the Canon, which hadn't been touched since Pope St. Gregory the Great. That's hardly traditional.

@@littlerock5256 Traditional or not, it’s minor compared to the demolition that occurred later in the decade.

@@WT-Sherman Breaking open the Canon, which means unchangeable, is decidedly not minor. It is quite major. Bugnini was testing to see how radical he could be and if he could get away with it, and he did. Bugnini said, "The first principles guiding the formation of the 1962 Missal are the same principles that would give us the Novus Ordo."

The 1962 mass isn't Gregorian as it had the Canon altered, which had not been touched since Pope St. Gregory the Great.

@@littlerock5256 So, a 1959 missal would not have that issue?

@@edukaeshn Is there a 1959 missal? There is a 1958 missal and it has an intact Canon. All missals prior to 1962 will have an untouched Canon.

@@littlerock5256 Yes, mine is a 1959 missal by Catholic Book Publishing Co., N.Y.

@@edukaeshn I never heard of a 1959. Maybe that is the year it was printed, and it is the 1958 mass? Either way, prior to 1962 it is the traditional Canon.

Incorrect. Byzantine, Syro Malabar and several others (I think there's 23) are Eastern Rite Catholic, not the same as eastern churches. They are in communion with Rome/ the papacy.

Although some are In communion, with Rome, they historically are separate churches. I know, as I live between traditional Catholicism and the eastern churches, both orthodox and Uniate. I know that Latin refer to them as eastern rite Catholics, that is a common term and seen by many as pejorative. They remain individual churches, regardless, of where their communion lies

The liturgy of St John Chrystosum is not the same liturgy of St Basil. I've been to both in the Byzantine Rite. And yes we did refer to it as the Byzantine Rite.

First, there was the liturgy of St. James originating in Jerusalem. It was later amended or shorten by Saint Basil and later again by St. John Chris system. Have spent over 20 years in the eastern church, well catechized and studied. Again the eastern churches weathering communion with Rome, or not originate from different patriarch case.the so-called unique churches, their communion, with their apostolic patriarch in favor of communion, with Rome, partially due to Geo political situation at the time. I know a number of unique priest who would prefer to be in communion with their mother church.

Nor did they celebrate the Novus Ordo or something similar to it. Your point?

How do you know?

The early CHURCH fathers did celebrate the LATIN MASS as the APOSTLES are the CHURCH fathers and LATIN WAS USED IN THE ROMAN EMPIRE . It was CHRIST who HAD CHOSEN THE 12 to spread the Gospel and under The EMPEROR CONSTANTINE officially recognised CHRISTIANITY and so the CATHOLIC CHURCH was founded upon the APOSTOLIC TRADITIONS with ST PETER being the HEAD CHOSEN by CHRIST to lead the Church from there on !! until later approximately 3OO years later in the time of ST JEROME he was a highly educated in GREEK and HEBREW and so was CHOSEN to TRANSLATE the ANCIENT SCROLLS INTO THE LATIN VULGATE the FIRST And ORIGINAL BIBLE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH and this is where the FAITH is KEPT IN PERPETUATE.,Even unto TODAY it is the REFERENCE to which the MISSALE ROMANUM was FORMULATED . ‼️. DOMINUS EST VERITAS VERBUM PER OMNIA SAECULAR SAECULORUM

I did not hear him advocate for the rejection of the Modern Mass. or Vatican II. Nobody has the “right” to abrogate a liturgy that was in use for more than a millennium. That was the real rupture. Minor changes to the Mass could have been implemented after Vatican II. But, that’s not what happened.

@@WT-Sherman You are correct that HE did not, but there are many, MANY advocates of the TLM that do. Some of the graphics and statements he used and made during the video do *seem to imply* that the Novus Ordo is inferior in some way. As far as your other assertion that the Magisterium does not have the authority to "retire", that is to say that it may no longer be celebrated, any particular right or Liturgy is presuming that you have more authority than they do. God guides the Magisterium thru the Holy Spirit and it is upon us, as good Catholics, to accept their teachings in a spirit of docility, humility, AND HARMONY (emphasis mine).

​@@paulnebeling2068People advocate for the NO for being "easy to understand", "welcoming" or "updated." The Latin Mass takes effort and contains better and more wholesome prayers. High Mass music comes from renounced composers. The Priest faces God along with the people. There is silence and reverence. Holy Eucharist is distributed to the faithful kneeling at the altar rail. Prayers after Low Mass are recited. One Mass is of God the other from corrupt men. Attend the Latin Mass.

​​​@@paulnebeling2068 Actually , while all the priests who celebrate the vetus ordo mass are loyal to the catholic doctrine ( you will never find a VO priest blessing same sex couples) , you can find only priests who celebrate novus ordo mass that are against the catholic doctrine (even if not all of them), not because of how the n.o. mass is structured, but because of what it was meant to represent by the modernists , a new church different from the original Catholic Church in its content and appearance, with the same name. It's not just a liturgical problem, it's also a doctrinal problem.

I feel like you are just confirming what I said. To paraphrase, "Our" priests are the good priests and priests that celebrate the Novus Ordo are bad priests. Did I get that right? Don't bother replying because I'm not following this channel any more.