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There's NO such thing as 'Mass of the Ages'? 

Mass of the Ages
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Is the 'Mass of the Ages' a misleading title? A myth? Didn't the Mass change after Trent, too? What was different after Vatican II?
MASS CONFUSION - Ep 9: Featuring Timothy Flanders.
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21 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 135   
@jeannettetinio7098
@jeannettetinio7098 7 месяцев назад
Padre Pio referred to the Triditional rite, the Latin Mass. Pre Vatican II, as the " Mass Of All Time."
@littlerock5256
@littlerock5256 7 месяцев назад
When did Padre Pio say that? I would like to find the source.
@jeannettetinio7098
@jeannettetinio7098 7 месяцев назад
@littlerock5256 I'm out right now...but I read a beautiful book called the The last Mass of Padre Pio...this is where I found this info. This book brought new appreciation and depth to the beauty of the Latin rite. God bless.
@nealkriesterer
@nealkriesterer 7 месяцев назад
It's beside the point - Padre Pio would recognize the current missal and the 1962 missal as one and the same mass.
@littlerock5256
@littlerock5256 7 месяцев назад
@@nealkriesterer It is known that Padre Pio did not offer the 1967 interim mass nor the 1965 mass and it is unknown whether he ever accepted the 1962. There is every reason to fully expect that Padre Pio would have rejected the missal of Paul VI, nor would he have considered it the same mass as prior to 1962.
@nealkriesterer
@nealkriesterer 7 месяцев назад
That's another meaningless distinction - by the time those missals were published, St Pio was in his late 70s. Elderly priests weren't expected to learn the new rubrics. On the other hand, it's very telling that it's "unknown" what his opinion was on the 1962 missal and later changes. If it was such a terrible crisis, why didn't St Pio didn't say anything about it?
@finallythere100
@finallythere100 7 месяцев назад
Or the Novus Ordo could be called the Mass of Freemason “Cardinal” Bugnini.
@martineslava8642
@martineslava8642 7 месяцев назад
I highly highly recommend both of the books mentioned at the beginning. A lot of the misnomers and myths about the liturgy are quickly dispelled with a careful reading of these texts. For example, the neoscholastic reduction of saying “the only thing that matters is if the Eucharist is present” which is so often repeated.
@christopherus
@christopherus 7 месяцев назад
I have been advocating for calling it the “Traditional-Apostolic Roman Mass” because 1. It’s not merely Apostolic in the sense of being the exact same as the Apostles used, but it has developed with proper use of Tradition. 2. It’s not merely Traditional, which can be construed into mere ecclesiastical Tradition, but comes from the Apostles. 3. It’s not the Mass of all the various other churches, but it is the rite of the Roman Church that satisfies 1 and 2.
@katiedid8192
@katiedid8192 7 месяцев назад
Actually the Latin Mass was formed about 600AD. The Original Mass of the Apostles were in the vernacular and many of the Eastern rites are closer than the Mass of the ages. The important parts of the Mass are the word and the Consecration. Both Masses when said correctly and with reverence and respect are valid. We have so much division, which Satan is very pleased, let’s try to unite. Both Masses are of value. I am a cradle Catholic who grew up with the Latin Mass and I understand and pray much more recently at the Novus Ordo because I can understand it and partake in the prayer.
@littlerock5256
@littlerock5256 7 месяцев назад
The 1962 mass had the Canon altered.
@JamesMartinelli-jr9mh
@JamesMartinelli-jr9mh 6 месяцев назад
@@katiedid8192 Just because it's Eastern doesn't mean that it's older. Our Roman rite mass is so old that it doesn't have the calling down of the Holy Ghost. It was formed before that controversy.
@regandonohue3899
@regandonohue3899 5 месяцев назад
​@@JamesMartinelli-jr9mh The Easterns are much more conservative to additions, however. It shouldn't matter anyway. This sort of ****-measuring contest is not conducive and only fosters more division (where it isn't needed) in a time where we need unity.
@JamesMartinelli-jr9mh
@JamesMartinelli-jr9mh 5 месяцев назад
@@katiedid8192 "How Christ said the First Mass" by James Meagher. BTW, the Roman rite does not have a calling down of the Holy Ghost - as in the eastern liturgies - because it was formed before the controversies ' over the Holy Ghost. "Just because it's eastern does not mean that it is older."
@MadMax31577
@MadMax31577 7 месяцев назад
Novus Ordites love to say the mass was invented in 1570
@MassoftheAges
@MassoftheAges 7 месяцев назад
😢
@spyroluver0951
@spyroluver0951 7 месяцев назад
I was brought up in a community of NO masses and have recently in the past two years joined Latin. Never in my whole city/ community networks of people that I know and have worked with (almost over 1000) have they ever said that. Even in schools. I think that is an unfair generalisation and leans towards a smaller community if people you know who are uneducated in masses. :(
@spyroluver0951
@spyroluver0951 7 месяцев назад
of* people
@MadMax31577
@MadMax31577 7 месяцев назад
@@spyroluver0951 I’m not making it up.
@KMF3
@KMF3 6 месяцев назад
I would like a video that does a deep dive into all the different Rites of the Church. That would be super interesting. I used to go to the Byzantine Divine Liturgy.
@thebeardedcatholic
@thebeardedcatholic 7 месяцев назад
We have been going exclusively to the TLM, for years now, it seems like schizophrenia trying to flip flop between the two. Jekyll/Hyde ish...the priests, laity, dress, music, vestments, rubrics, servers, on and on... See you in Canada, God willing
@kevinnickel7529
@kevinnickel7529 7 месяцев назад
It's one of those Hank meet Good Hank type deals. Like Michaelangelo's Pieta being compared to the macaroni owl on construction paper that you made and your mom put up on the fridge, so that people could see it. Which, is really actually quite sad. But, im quite over pretending that they are even remotely the same thing somehow.
@WT-Sherman
@WT-Sherman 7 месяцев назад
10 Million $ question: why did God let it happen ? Pope Paul VI would later express reservations, but he seemed powerless to halt the changes. He was able to save the Roman Canon, but not much else.
@MassoftheAges
@MassoftheAges 7 месяцев назад
It’s not over yet!
@bobtosi9346
@bobtosi9346 7 месяцев назад
Paul VI was a weak effeminate modernist, that's why he could not stop it. He allowed himself to be a pawn of Satan.
@WT-Sherman
@WT-Sherman 7 месяцев назад
Agreed. Even Ratzinger, who referred to the Modern Mass as a “banal fabrication “ when Cardinal, never publicly offered The Mass of the Ages as the Supreme Pontiff. Who or what was he afraid of ?
@craiglucci
@craiglucci 7 месяцев назад
@@WT-ShermanI would imagine he was afraid of the Jews. Jewish power was against the traditional liturgy.
@burtonspringer8327
@burtonspringer8327 7 месяцев назад
When and where did Pope Paul VI show regrets?
@bthemedia
@bthemedia 7 месяцев назад
18:00 Communion in the hand in early church… didn’t they receive with a cloth over their hands? Then raise cloth covered hand to mouth to eat?
@joannasynapse7457
@joannasynapse7457 7 месяцев назад
That is how I understood communion in the hand as well.
@thomasjorge4734
@thomasjorge4734 7 месяцев назад
Since Modern History begins Circa 1500, (1492), the TLM is the Ancient, Medieval and Modern Mass. The Circa 2000, (1970), Novus Ordo would best be referred to as the Contemporary Or Current Events Mass.
@littlerock5256
@littlerock5256 7 месяцев назад
The 1962 missal had the Canon altered.
@CatholicMailman
@CatholicMailman 7 месяцев назад
Traditional Latin Mass is the Mass of the Ages! The Traditional Latin Catholic Church could be the modern day Noah’s Ark?
@MassoftheAges
@MassoftheAges 7 месяцев назад
🙌
@littlerock5256
@littlerock5256 7 месяцев назад
The 1962 missal had the Canon altered.
@spyroluver0951
@spyroluver0951 7 месяцев назад
Hi, I love the hard-work and presentations you do on the channel and what you produce. Good Quality! If i am fortunate to give one feedback, can you please slow down your talking in pace and soothe the tone. You have passion which i love but sometimes the sentences were too quickly discussed and some emphasis on words were too harsh. Love your work and coming out with a supporting hand to you. ❤️
@nathaniellathy6559
@nathaniellathy6559 7 месяцев назад
Novus Ordo is Protestant Service. TLM is Catholic Mass
@WT-Sherman
@WT-Sherman 7 месяцев назад
Since the driving force of the Consilium was ecumenism, the Modern Mass was fabricated to be more welcoming to Protestants. They kept just elements intact to keep it valid.
@MassoftheAges
@MassoftheAges 7 месяцев назад
The Novus Ordo is Catholic. It may resemble Protestant services but it’s 💯 Catholic in what it is.
@CatholicMailman
@CatholicMailman 7 месяцев назад
The novus ordo mass is a Protestantized mass?
@bobtosi9346
@bobtosi9346 7 месяцев назад
​@@MassoftheAgesI must disagree. I lost my faith for a long time because of the NO and it's weakness to represent the true and living God. Instead of people being focused on God and His real presence, in the mass, the church focused on the world and it's desires.
@nathaniellathy6559
@nathaniellathy6559 7 месяцев назад
@@CatholicMailman yep. Just like what Luther and Cranmer wanted
@alicepavey974
@alicepavey974 7 месяцев назад
In England, we once had the Sarum Rite; sadly, it is completely obsolete.
@Braingrandchild
@Braingrandchild 7 месяцев назад
Interesting!
@deathstar2294
@deathstar2294 7 месяцев назад
Someone told me that the Personal Ordinariate rite is basically the Sarum rite. Is that true would you say? I genuinely have no idea. Not familiar with either
@JohnOsman-m4q
@JohnOsman-m4q 7 месяцев назад
The Sarum “Use” was not a rite. It was a local expression of the ancient Roman Mass.
@regandonohue3899
@regandonohue3899 5 месяцев назад
​@@deathstar2294 It's not the Sarum Use in and of itself. It draws from it, but also includes other source(s?) like the Roman missal. The Use of Sarum is indeed a local expression of the Latin rite, in actuality. Many who have attended (myself included) would loosely call it "TLM in English" and there's some truth to it
@Thor-Orion
@Thor-Orion 7 месяцев назад
1:48 this is why I refer to the Traditional Latin Mass as the Tridentine Mass, because there are other western rites.
@Thor-Orion
@Thor-Orion 7 месяцев назад
5:21 Codifying the Roman Rite, I believe is the correct terminology.
@thomasjorge4734
@thomasjorge4734 7 месяцев назад
Let the Mass of the Ages be called the Latin Rite; the Novus Ordo, the Vatican Rite; both Forms of the Western Rite and the pre-1970 Vatican 2 Mass, which I have seen this year in Mexico and in New York, the Roman Rite.
@speedygonzales9993
@speedygonzales9993 7 месяцев назад
Yeah, Mass of the Ages is the MORE ACCURATE term. It is what I attend.
@c.b.s.3495
@c.b.s.3495 7 месяцев назад
E-Knock has a song called Mass of the Ages.
@edschoenstein1893
@edschoenstein1893 5 месяцев назад
By using the terms placed upon us by the modernists (extrodinary form, mass of the ages, etc.) have we already conceded or played into the diabolic destruction of our prayer and faith?
@johngermain3076
@johngermain3076 7 месяцев назад
Note the two popes, the one on the left retains the authority of Christ the King, the one on the right has given up the crown (the Tierra) thus (spiritually) giving up the authority given from Christ to St. Peter. A new church is thus at it's beginning and developing (as we see today). It's a church of man, created by man, for man. It believes differently than the church established by Christ the King, which is why His crown has been set aside.
@KMF3
@KMF3 6 месяцев назад
What about a pope that said at the time no liturgy that wasn't at least 200 years old would be allowed? Not sure who or the exact wording.
@UnionSince452
@UnionSince452 5 месяцев назад
That was Pius V at Trent. That’s why the Mozarabic rite exists, for example, as it comes before that 200 year cut off. Whereas others may have been abrogated.
@ejcrispin
@ejcrispin 7 месяцев назад
Thanks!
@niemanns
@niemanns 7 месяцев назад
Hate to say it, but you spelled "concession" wrong.
@NathanMiller-p3o
@NathanMiller-p3o 7 месяцев назад
One has to wonder, like when I was a kid I grabbed an encyclopedia and went why did X happen, someday people will look back and go wonder why it changed for 75 - 100 years then went back it’s pretty mind blowing when you think about it
@spyroluver0951
@spyroluver0951 7 месяцев назад
it's great to be curious about life and history 🙌 keep growing in learning :D
@alfgand8040
@alfgand8040 7 месяцев назад
Consider that the papacy was located in Avignon instead of Rome for more time than the Novus Ordo has existed.
@ChrisEAdlay
@ChrisEAdlay 7 месяцев назад
Is it bad if i prefer attending divine liturgy of eastern catholic churches rather than latin mass?
@larryhicks4203
@larryhicks4203 7 месяцев назад
No
@PadraigTomas
@PadraigTomas 7 месяцев назад
Continue to attend your Eastern Catholic Church. The various Catholic Churches are all holy and apostolic. Together they are one holy catholic and apostolic.
@myriamtothill909
@myriamtothill909 7 месяцев назад
When re-introducing old rites, surely it is vital to find out why they were dropped. Satanists love Communion in the hand because it makes it so easy to obtain Consecrated Hosts for their horrific rituals. The fact that so many of our bishops throughout the world actually insist on the practice brings into question their own beliefs and loyalties!!
@MaryCWeaver
@MaryCWeaver 7 месяцев назад
What about Usus Antiquior?
@WT-Sherman
@WT-Sherman 7 месяцев назад
Is this presentation a response to a recent George Weigel interview ?
@MassoftheAges
@MassoftheAges 7 месяцев назад
Not specifically, his assertion, however, is common enough to be argued against.
@WT-Sherman
@WT-Sherman 7 месяцев назад
Some of his assertions were comical. One of his few examples of “the Mass was always changing “. Was the addition of St Joseph in the Roman Canon.
@littlerock5256
@littlerock5256 7 месяцев назад
@@WT-Sherman The 1962 altered the Canon, which hadn't been touched since Pope St. Gregory the Great. That's hardly traditional.
@WT-Sherman
@WT-Sherman 7 месяцев назад
@@littlerock5256 Traditional or not, it’s minor compared to the demolition that occurred later in the decade.
@littlerock5256
@littlerock5256 7 месяцев назад
@@WT-Sherman Breaking open the Canon, which means unchangeable, is decidedly not minor. It is quite major. Bugnini was testing to see how radical he could be and if he could get away with it, and he did. Bugnini said, "The first principles guiding the formation of the 1962 Missal are the same principles that would give us the Novus Ordo."
@KMF3
@KMF3 6 месяцев назад
Yeah what happens when the new Mass is stale?
@tomthx5804
@tomthx5804 7 месяцев назад
If you were really Catholic, you would only refer to it as "The Latin Blessed Transubstantiation in Quiet" (LGBTQ)
@edukaeshn
@edukaeshn 7 месяцев назад
I call It the Gregorian Mass.
@littlerock5256
@littlerock5256 7 месяцев назад
The 1962 mass isn't Gregorian as it had the Canon altered, which had not been touched since Pope St. Gregory the Great.
@edukaeshn
@edukaeshn 7 месяцев назад
@@littlerock5256 So, a 1959 missal would not have that issue?
@littlerock5256
@littlerock5256 7 месяцев назад
@@edukaeshn Is there a 1959 missal? There is a 1958 missal and it has an intact Canon. All missals prior to 1962 will have an untouched Canon.
@edukaeshn
@edukaeshn 7 месяцев назад
@@littlerock5256 Yes, mine is a 1959 missal by Catholic Book Publishing Co., N.Y.
@littlerock5256
@littlerock5256 7 месяцев назад
@@edukaeshn I never heard of a 1959. Maybe that is the year it was printed, and it is the 1958 mass? Either way, prior to 1962 it is the traditional Canon.
@scottjoyner3700
@scottjoyner3700 7 месяцев назад
Man, about the last thing I (a traditionalist Catholic convert) need in my life is a guy yelling about these sacred matters in a voice better suited to calling high school football games.
@georgios3333
@georgios3333 7 месяцев назад
There are no eastern rite rather various eastern churches. The liturgy of St. John the Golden mouth was a mass of Saint Basil, the great which was an abridgment of the mass of Saint James the apostle.
@lorih9182
@lorih9182 7 месяцев назад
Incorrect. Byzantine, Syro Malabar and several others (I think there's 23) are Eastern Rite Catholic, not the same as eastern churches. They are in communion with Rome/ the papacy.
@georgios3333
@georgios3333 7 месяцев назад
Although some are In communion, with Rome, they historically are separate churches. I know, as I live between traditional Catholicism and the eastern churches, both orthodox and Uniate. I know that Latin refer to them as eastern rite Catholics, that is a common term and seen by many as pejorative. They remain individual churches, regardless, of where their communion lies
@KMF3
@KMF3 6 месяцев назад
The liturgy of St John Chrystosum is not the same liturgy of St Basil. I've been to both in the Byzantine Rite. And yes we did refer to it as the Byzantine Rite.
@georgios3333
@georgios3333 6 месяцев назад
First, there was the liturgy of St. James originating in Jerusalem. It was later amended or shorten by Saint Basil and later again by St. John Chris system. Have spent over 20 years in the eastern church, well catechized and studied. Again the eastern churches weathering communion with Rome, or not originate from different patriarch case.the so-called unique churches, their communion, with their apostolic patriarch in favor of communion, with Rome, partially due to Geo political situation at the time. I know a number of unique priest who would prefer to be in communion with their mother church.
@MrMarcvus
@MrMarcvus 7 месяцев назад
So effectively, you believe that the All-Holy Spirit has stopped inspiring new rites? This seems a very spurious argument meant to protect your museum piece Liturgy!
@markrome9702
@markrome9702 7 месяцев назад
Early Church Fathers didn't celebrate the Latin Mass. Another reason the Latin Mass isn't the "Mass of the Ages".
@alisa4124
@alisa4124 7 месяцев назад
Nor did they celebrate the Novus Ordo or something similar to it. Your point?
@JamesMartinelli-jr9mh
@JamesMartinelli-jr9mh 6 месяцев назад
How do you know?
@rosschizzoniti906
@rosschizzoniti906 6 месяцев назад
The early CHURCH fathers did celebrate the LATIN MASS as the APOSTLES are the CHURCH fathers and LATIN WAS USED IN THE ROMAN EMPIRE . It was CHRIST who HAD CHOSEN THE 12 to spread the Gospel and under The EMPEROR CONSTANTINE officially recognised CHRISTIANITY and so the CATHOLIC CHURCH was founded upon the APOSTOLIC TRADITIONS with ST PETER being the HEAD CHOSEN by CHRIST to lead the Church from there on !! until later approximately 3OO years later in the time of ST JEROME he was a highly educated in GREEK and HEBREW and so was CHOSEN to TRANSLATE the ANCIENT SCROLLS INTO THE LATIN VULGATE the FIRST And ORIGINAL BIBLE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH and this is where the FAITH is KEPT IN PERPETUATE.,Even unto TODAY it is the REFERENCE to which the MISSALE ROMANUM was FORMULATED . ‼️. DOMINUS EST VERITAS VERBUM PER OMNIA SAECULAR SAECULORUM
@paulnebeling2068
@paulnebeling2068 7 месяцев назад
I find it interesting that while you acknowledge that the Holy See has the RIGHT to change the Liturgy, yet ignore the massive rupture that has been promulgated by the rejection of the Novus Ordo and Vatican II. It shows a lack of faith in the power of the Holy Spirit because the same Holy Spirit that guided the authors of the Novus Ordo has guided the Magisterium that "preserved" what you refer to as "The Mass of the Ages".
@WT-Sherman
@WT-Sherman 7 месяцев назад
I did not hear him advocate for the rejection of the Modern Mass. or Vatican II. Nobody has the “right” to abrogate a liturgy that was in use for more than a millennium. That was the real rupture. Minor changes to the Mass could have been implemented after Vatican II. But, that’s not what happened.
@paulnebeling2068
@paulnebeling2068 7 месяцев назад
@@WT-Sherman You are correct that HE did not, but there are many, MANY advocates of the TLM that do. Some of the graphics and statements he used and made during the video do *seem to imply* that the Novus Ordo is inferior in some way. As far as your other assertion that the Magisterium does not have the authority to "retire", that is to say that it may no longer be celebrated, any particular right or Liturgy is presuming that you have more authority than they do. God guides the Magisterium thru the Holy Spirit and it is upon us, as good Catholics, to accept their teachings in a spirit of docility, humility, AND HARMONY (emphasis mine).
@marccrotty8447
@marccrotty8447 7 месяцев назад
​@@paulnebeling2068People advocate for the NO for being "easy to understand", "welcoming" or "updated." The Latin Mass takes effort and contains better and more wholesome prayers. High Mass music comes from renounced composers. The Priest faces God along with the people. There is silence and reverence. Holy Eucharist is distributed to the faithful kneeling at the altar rail. Prayers after Low Mass are recited. One Mass is of God the other from corrupt men. Attend the Latin Mass.
@62peppe62
@62peppe62 6 месяцев назад
​​​@@paulnebeling2068 Actually , while all the priests who celebrate the vetus ordo mass are loyal to the catholic doctrine ( you will never find a VO priest blessing same sex couples) , you can find only priests who celebrate novus ordo mass that are against the catholic doctrine (even if not all of them), not because of how the n.o. mass is structured, but because of what it was meant to represent by the modernists , a new church different from the original Catholic Church in its content and appearance, with the same name. It's not just a liturgical problem, it's also a doctrinal problem.
@paulnebeling2068
@paulnebeling2068 6 месяцев назад
I feel like you are just confirming what I said. To paraphrase, "Our" priests are the good priests and priests that celebrate the Novus Ordo are bad priests. Did I get that right? Don't bother replying because I'm not following this channel any more.
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