That's why my boss refuses to let people that work for the property management companies to watch us install thermostats. They've tried to duplicate things and blown 24v transformers and then we have to take down ceiling panels and apartments to replace those things and it's not comfortable. And they always say well I saw you doing it so I thought I could do it too
property management and renters it always seems they try to look over your shoulder as if they are going to learn to diy it. some things you just cant youtube xD
This should not be the norm. Information should be shared. As long as it doesn't bother me i don't mind explaining everything. Of course if someone genius wants to go burn his house downd thats his problem.
@@azza-in_this_day_and_age I did learn everything I know from Chris here after watching the videos for years and now I fully understand how to diagnose problems and how systems work. You can use RU-vid to learn, but you do have to understand how to do that and research is still necessary. :)
@@TheCrystalGlow wow now you can apply for your liscense and start making the big bucks, should be a breeze being that you understand fully how systems work! best of luck
@@garousata4261 say that when you have 3 other calls to complete, that youre going to stop and teach somebody what took you months of training to learn
Eh. It's hard to know what you don't know. It seems obvious to us but for someone with no HVAC or electrical knowledge who has seen techs spray down gear? I don't blame them.
@@spencerryan2657 the things i know i dont know are sufficient to respect a system. unknown unknowns, if i knew what they were, would likely keep me up at night 😳
“ You thought wrong “. Lmao!!!! I retired last year and finally got my retirement dinner and watch last month. 31 years of service. I’m still watching these video’s even when I don’t plan on doing this ever again. I guess I’m a lifer
Ah yes as one of my teachers once said “monkey see monkey do” I have have come across that many times before, But I saw you do it so I figured I could do it too wrong! There is training and knowledge that keeps us safe and doesn’t cause further damage. Anyway enough ranting, another great video thanks for taking us along on the service call.
I was folding laundry in the other room when I heard the rapid contacting and silence, came running to see the smoke. Not this time! 😁 Diligent work. 👍🏻
dude I was having my headphones on and that contactor making that rapidly in and out movement scare also the heck out of me because I did not expect that coming!Nice video!😂😂👌
You couldn't duplicate problem with the new timer, I would have re installed faulty timer momenteraly just to be reassured. I love how you explain in detail thank you so much
I would like to caution about re-using the metal press in standoffs from the old time clock. A miss is not necessarily as good as a mile when it comes to electrical clearances, and products have to be designed to have minimum clearances (distance through air) and creepages (distance over a surface) between live conductors and ground. With the nylon standoffs provided in the kit, the nearest grounded part is the screw itself. By installing the metal standoff you have reduced the distance from the conductor to ground by about half. A little dirt and a little moisture on the back of the PCB and you could have an arc. I design PCBs for consumer electronics and I don't know what the spacing requirements are for industrial equipment are, but I would bet that if the manufacturer included nylon standoffs in the kit it is because those are necessary to maintain the minimum creepage. Best to use the parts they provide.
I would say (and check me) that the guy that was rinsing the coils made a safety error, he assumed. Never work on something you don't have control of, ie., he didn't have control of the breaker. LOTO is a skill.
@@kaptaintrips yeah thats true, but when you have fools like that around the job site, better safe than dead. this is pretty much a textbook reason for LOTO
Could be a neutral problem with the contactor pulling in and out while the clock was in defrost since it was faulty. Depends if neutral is run in series
@@uzlonewolf hmm alright, in my experience you need a neutral for contactors since they are single phase on the controls. Have encountered similar problems where the neutral had vibrated off
When you say that the fan cycling switches are wired in series, do you actually mean that they are daisy chained or in parallel? In my head when you said series, all the switches would have to be closed for the contactor to be pulled in for the CFM's. Good video, I about pooped myself when that contactor started chattering.
Yeah i also instinctly thought this was wrong, they must be in parallel. Came here to write a comment about it, but i was not the only one that picked up on that i see :)
I thought that contactor chattering was electrical arcing at first. Scared the crap out of me too. I thought that whole electrical section was about to go up in front of you. And that guy who hosed down the coils doesn't seem to appreciate how close he came to having 33amps at 200v looking for a path to ground through him. He's lucky he didn't short a heater or something. That's definitely enough to maim or kill someone.
Most humans can only handle at most 10 amps. It would've killed him without a doubt most likely. Either that or very severely burned him or whatever upon both point of contact to the path of conductivity. And yeah, the chattering of that contactor also kinda surprised me too.
First of all, there is no way the person could have got 200V into themselves, that's the line voltage between phases. N to L or PE to L it's still just 120V. Second, you cannot pass 33 amps (not sure where you got 33 from) through a person with just 120V. A person usually is about 1kOhms, more or less. At 120V that means 120/1000 amps which is 0.12 amps. While being lethal as a gunshot, it's not 33. Although it still surely would have made a nice show of fireworks or a human stew if the hose had like a metal wand or something
@@timteecvhn Humans cannot handle 10 amps. The number you are looking for is 10mA or 0.01A. above that it's basically lethal (after about the 0.05 seconds range, or 1 full cycle of the sine)
@@timteecvhn you don't know what you're talking about. There is no limit of current people "can handle", not in the amp range. Some start to cramp just been above 10mA. So please stop spreading your incorrect facts. Thank you.
@@B-M.B Uh... Sorry but your kinda in the wrong. There is a limit. also perhaps you should actually consider watching some of BigCliveDotCom's videos. He does actually mention in his most recent one that we do have a limit to how much current we can handle before severe injury or death even. And... second... Incorrect facts? No, That's a load of BS straight from your mouth. Especially given that the other dude who replied to me about it also knows about the limitations of the human body. Maybe you should consider not just responding randomly and saying some people are outright wrong when they aren't necessarily so.
It should be part of the NEC (National Electrical Code) that all circuit boards MUST be mounted on non-conductive surfaces, so with those brackets, a non-conductive (plastic, nylon etc.) spacer MUST be placed between the circuit board and metal bracket to prevent the bracket causing a dead short...
I bet, if he had someone clean and solder that bad solderjoint that defrost clock would work as advertised. Looked to be a bad solderjoint or maybe a solderjoint that had had a lot of vibration, breaking up the solder. When the solderjoint cracks it will just get progressivly worse, one arc at the time.
I agree with you in that they should never touch your stuff that your working on however it's very unlikely that just watering a coil that someone will get electrified due to the fact that 230v won't really jump a very big gap. You got to litterally hold on to a ground with one hand and then touch the live wire with the other. We have 230v here in sweden and I have quite allot of experience around that. But I know when something is live or not. That's the key of you don't know if it's live or not always treat it as life until you verified.
Guy was a genius and should have been reported to managed. Chris was right to exacerbated the potentially danger ( standings on a wet floor housing dound some electrical equipment is not the safest either. That being said i think education is primordial and that we should tell people more not less. Let random dude watch as long as they are not in the way an never feel responsible if someone genius does something that he should not have. Also yeah actual risk was very low for the guy. Damaging the coil was more likely.
That contactor sounded like there was a loose connection or short somewhere in the circuit. Did you check if all the screw terminals where tightened up?
High amperage on a slobber connection. To do that right and the replacement looks superior to the old one, which looks * poor you need multiple large layers in the board just to dissipate heat. The large solder pad you see on the back of the replacement is an indication of that. So you carry a much better defrost timer. I suspect the one you install will last longer than the original.
bro i se all these people that work on hvac stuff im a 12 year old kid thinking of my backup job if i dont want to be want i want to be now because of your videos!!
Hand him a 9v batt and get him to lick it, get a tingle off it on his tongue. Then tell him "now do that with your electric dryer at home". When he objects, tell him that that's practically what he just did.
I will discuss this on my livestream this evening 5/2/22 @ 5:PM (pacific) come over and check it out ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vDvOUUBF-vE.html
When that contactor started chattering it reminded me of working as an apprentice electrician 30+ years ago. We were installing transformers in an office complex. I leaned up against one and felt a strong vibration and instantly thought I was being electrocuted and leapt away (despite them not being wired up yet) only to find my pager going off and that was the buzz. Everybody got a good laugh off that one! 😂
Some peoples kids and thier caulk guns and hoses. (I touched the hot part of the stove when I was 4 years old to see if it was really hot. I did that once and only once. Some kids just need to stick the fork in the socket, and that's why we use 120, not 240, in our outlets.)(I know he was trying to help, but yeah, maybe explaining in detail what happens when anything bigger 3/4 of an amp hits your heart when one of the valves are closed. You'd think working on guitar amps is safer....Filter capacitors can store up to 500v DC.)
The relay on that defrost clock was pretty charred as well, not sure if you saw it later (haven't fully watched yet.) My bets are that it pulled high current for a while and welded the relay shut. Shall continue to see how this develops. Edit: Yeah you found the burnt contact on the back of the clock. Toasty little thing. As for the chattering..., that guy was down there spraying off the coil, it could have temporarily shorted defrost termination and caused the chattering.
@@richardbartlett6932 Defrost puts the compressor into pump down on a system like this, which raises the pressure somewhat, enough to turn on the fan. When the short appears, it goes into defrost for a moment and derps out the pressure switch. Then the short goes way and resets. Granted that's a theory, and a more likely option is that the wet electronics were causing a power derp on the rack.
Question: Isn't there a lockout contact to prevent the defrost contactor from pulling in until the refrigeration contractor dropped out? Meaning even if the clock trying to cool and defrost at the same time, the lockout would have kept the heaters off? What am I overlooking?
Fan cycle is probably a Parallel circuit. (if it was a Series circuit, They would need to be wire NC then there would need to be a Relay (NC) that powers the contactor if any switch opened.) Chatter could also be caused by something overloading the coil supply, or a loose wire/bad contact to that coil.
I will discuss this on my livestream this evening 5/2/22 @ 5:PM (pacific) come over and check it out ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vDvOUUBF-vE.html
This may not be how the system is set up, but if the power going to that fan control pressure switch comes from the defrost clock for the system the switch is on, perhaps that was the system currently engaging the fan relay when it flipped out. If the voltage was going wonky or it was shorting internally it could have rapidly supplied enough power to pull in the contactor and then dropped back below that when it kicked on, kicking it back off. If the other systems weren't sending power to that contactor because they were satisfied or at a low enough head pressure maybe that was just the only system pulling it in at that moment. But that's assuming that's how the system is wired up, if the power for those fan switches doesn't come from the defrost clock then who knows.
Totally agree..customer employees can be nuts.. 3yrs ago, an idiot pulled 3ph equipment out to clean and sprayed the back wall under a hood exhaust (3 bay, 3ph fryer) and got hit with 3phase..lucky to be alive, but spent months in the hospital..come to find out, cameras showed him doing it on purpose 🤯
I'm the guy who sets up monitoring systems for websites and email. A device to record audio that would last at least 6 months remotely is do-able. I imagine once or twice a week a person downloads the recording for evaluation. The evaluation would be mostly looking at image representations of the sound and shouldn't take more than 10 minutes. A device like this would be in the $70 to $200 range.
Since the defrost timer had a burnt connection on the pc board, it easily could have been arcing which could have caused the chattering contactors. Also, I wouldn't worry about scolding someone doing something stupid, won't listen to proper reasoning and then defends their poor judgement - If they die, they remove their "stupid genes" from the gene pool and mankind benefits.
While I agree up to a point, I just wish when people want to be friendly and helpful they would ask first. It's just to easy to kill yourself when dealing with electrical.
use a screw driver handle to tap on the fan cycle switches while they're on, that helps find vibration related issues. isn't the timer circuit independent of the fan control, since there's multiple units on same fan? I guess the timer could have been lightly chattering the compressor contactor also, if power goes from there to switch and fan contactor that could do it too.
5:07: I think the relay- pin making occasionally contact within the burnt PCB- track is the cause of the freaking 😱- chattering contactor on the left side.
About that genius rincing coils, I would say on the contrary that's a lack of information not too much. That is why I will share any technical knowledge to anyone interested. Also i think it's a dangerous slope to thin that because you told someone something you are responsible for their actions.
I will discuss this on my livestream this evening 5/2/22 @ 5:PM (pacific) come over and check it out ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vDvOUUBF-vE.html
I see this a lot in the automotive world too. People know just enough to think they know what they are doing, but not enough to do it correctly or even safely. I’ve seen so many RU-vid mechanics who nearly destroy their vehicle and/or kill themselves and their families because they thought they knew what they were doing. They thought wrong.
Damn i got to admit i have defrosted a freezer just last week as it was plugged in 😬 Im 1 month into this after school and already working on my own from day 1. I saw a guy do it while on my practice when i went to school. A ton of things to learn from your videos even when things i sweden looks way diffrent than US.
I will discuss this on my livestream this evening 5/2/22 @ 5:PM (pacific) come over and check it out ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vDvOUUBF-vE.html
I'm a garage door and gate tech, and even I won't fool with anything over 120V while it's powered up ESPECIALLY if it's 3 phase. Yeah, 208V isn't that far above 120V, but 208 on 3 legs is just more power to fry your ass. I love my job, but customers man... customers. LOL
Why do lot of techs say my when it is not yours its the customer system not yours you are servicing it thats all. Someone told me that once a long time ago so I never call it mine anymore it’s annoying
I know im kinda late to the party but are you sure these controls are wired in series bc if they are on a closing circuit (NO) youd have to wire them parallel in order to be an OR-Gate. The only way it would work in series is an opening circuit (NC) but that would mean if your wire breaks, your fans would run non stop. Not trying to be a smart ass btw, my small, german electrician brain just tryes to understand whats going on with that circuit.
Yea, that is the issue with techs... it makes it hard to stop people from thinking they can open and do their own things... sadly some are not anywhere close to knowing what they need to do.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned about electricity in my years of working with lipo batteries. Always have one hand behind the back when your working with voltages over 24v. You will be electrocuted if both your hands are nearby. Also. Electrical tape is your best friend.
Contactor coil is 208v. I'd like to know what voltage is passing through the coil. it could be low enough to the point its right at the minimum threshold for engagement.
That little exchange warrants a mention to their boss regarding employee safety. Watering a 3-phase kit while it's live is pretty much a death sentence.
Just wanted to clarify, you say the fan cycle switches are ran in series but that would mean that the fans dont turn on untill all the switches are closed. I'm assuming that you mean they are ran in parallel right?
I will discuss this on my livestream this evening 5/2/22 @ 5:PM (pacific) come over and check it out ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vDvOUUBF-vE.html
the intermatic box with the diagram, do you know where I can get a couple of those boxes at? I've got a project and that's exactly what I'm looking for.
Fault with your defrost: .. those style relays are used in a lot of automotive stuff (my area) they are really bad for contacts welding closed. I bet that relay with the burnt pin is closed, so it would obv always power up the circuit it controlled. not that it matters, youd be mad to fix a consumable like that at the component level.
Start of video: You are serious about someone water hosing electrical equipment? Watched the rest of your video; Hopefully a breaker will trip quick enough and the hose and possible nozzle, are made of non-conductive material. But you are correct, de-energize all electrical equipment and verify zero reading with a volt meter. (Water use is not a recommended action for non trained people). Training materials *may* instill voltage respect when you get to the arc-gap circle when working above 480 VAC. Flame suit training… Imagine you are well aware.
I will discuss this on my livestream this evening 5/2/22 @ 5:PM (pacific) come over and check it out ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vDvOUUBF-vE.html
12:20 “They are wired in SERIES so if any one closes” - you mean wired in PARALLEL. With series switches, they all have to be closed for something to happen. Switches in parallel - if any switch closes it completes the circuit.
I will discuss this on my livestream this evening 5/2/22 @ 5:PM (pacific) come over and check it out ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vDvOUUBF-vE.html
You know, you talking about that guy hosing off the coils with the defroster hot reminds me of something my dad used to say (he was a mechanic): "Stupid should be painful." That guy will continue to eff around and one day, his luck will run out and he will find out. Props to you for trying to tell him, but he sounds like he was too stupid to learn.
I'm a little bothered that he keeps saying "the pressure switches for the fans are wired in series". If they were wired in series then ALL of them would have to switch on before the fans would turn on. He really means they're wired in parallel.
I will discuss this on my livestream this evening 5/2/22 @ 5:PM (pacific) come over and check it out ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vDvOUUBF-vE.html
