Guys, argentina just recently beat france and came close the game prior. The boks have 3 losses to argentina, the same as us. Just admit that argentina are up for it now like france used to be, generally useless, not exactly consistent, but ignore them at your peril. The fact that the most world cup winning boks and the all blacks who are the second most cups have both lost to argentina 3 times does not mean that suddenly we are weak as piss. Just take on the challenge and accept them as a genuine rival albeit not always consistent, aka...dangerous. We can still win the rugby championship, stop whinning, its getting pathetic. Also I feel this is against the backdrop of the boks destroying australia, but once again guys, remember, australia are ranked as good as Fiji. Dont underestimate argentina and dont over estimate australia. Relax.
Agree completely, Boks looked great against a very poor Australia, going to Argentina is tough and as always our arch rivals the all blacks will probably take at least one of the games in SA. Comp is far from over
Saffa here. Let's be honest and take emotion away. 1. The ABs could've won the WC final if one or two things went different. So you not as useless as the schadenfreude clan wants you to believe. I do, however think that it's obvious the All blacks have lost their "air" 2. Yes, you kicked us out of Superrugby, but the comp was dying, tbh. We used to miss meetings on a Friday morning to watch the Stormers and Hurricanes play (Jean de villiers v Nonu) and at the end no one was watching it. We actually got lucky. 3. As much as it is nice to be the big dog for a change (NZ has been the team to beat since Jonah lomu days) we need a very strong Nz and Oz teams for world rugby so it is in everybody's interest to get both back 3. Money needs to flow to keep players. Learn from the rest, pick your best regardless of where they play I hope we smash you, but only with a point.😊
The only thing the AB's have left is their reputation. Theoir dominance is gone weather you like it or not. Nothnig else. Not even theiur ANGER MANAGMENT DANCE HELPS.
@@frankvendetta9230anger management dance 😮😮 Go and watch something else...oh hang on...many New Zealand teams do that anger management dance. Good luck finding one that doesn't 🤷♂️🤔 Golf ummmm It's called The Haka and it's a challenge. Twat 😘
So much negativity that is unfounded. The ABs were a whisker away from being No 1 in the world last year in the final against us. The main problem this weekend against Argentina is the ABs lacked polish in all areas, whereas Argentina were up for it. With time, the ABs will get up again - remember this is the only team who could beat World Number 1 Ireland last year!!
Not sure about that, this AB's team has some weaknesses coming for a while - not least a pack without punch. Like a lion without teeth their fwds win by 'gumming' you to death, unheard of among historical AB's. Forget the hype of dazzling play, Rugby Union remains a game of hard wins up front despite what JK claims. Something the AB's were always very very good at.
Robertson in some ways now reminds me of the period when Heyneke Meyer took over Boks. He should've got the job earlier when his provincial players were in their prime. Now Razor is also without some of those guys that underpinned the Crusaders success. I think ABs bounce back quickly from here but there are questions...
Jake White used the rush defence against the ABS when he was the SA coach, 10 years before the 2017 Lions, or umbrella defence as what they used to call it.
The problem is they have the wrong Captain. Ardie is a great player but not a great strategist nor captain. When the team needed leadership and solutions to the present crisis and adaptation to their quandary, he went missing in that aspect.
Just watch when we opted for a penalty shot at goal compared to Argentina and how much quicker the kicking tee was getting to their kicker.....that is us mucking about hesitating and not being sure what the call is and putting extra pressure on our kicker. Pablo Matera was there next to the ref every time stalling until their waterboy was ready to run on to the field(could even argue he was already on with the tee). It was the same with the lineout calls towards the end when it got tight,we looked indecisive and lost. Its all those small things that will im sure get better with time but they add up now. Full credit to the argies though, they played really clinical rugby and beat us in every aspect of the game so cant argue at all.
True - people conflate best captain with being the best player, that’s not the way to go. Sometimes they can be one and the same, but it’s often not the case. The captain has to be the best leader. Very different. I’m an England fan, and Dylan Hartley was that when we had a long streak in EJs first years - a great player for sure; but Jamie George was beginning to usurp him. He was on the field for three things - leading from the front (in whatever way that is for him - vocal or actions, or both), being gnarly, and set-piece stability at all times, doing the bare basics well at all times. In the NZ case now, I don’t see a spine of leadership anymore around Savea either - no Whitelock, B Barrett rarely starts, D Mack doesn’t boss and run a game as a Test 10 needs to .. it’s tough transition. Eden Park will be a different story though I think - a furious response is coming.
hu well if the dunderheads actually played people in their right positions then maybe the gameplan would fit better, savea is a 7 he has the body of a 7 isnt big, u got a 6/7 in paps and a proper 6 in blackadder. whos at 8? yeah see how they have tied themselves up. they dont have anyone decent there
@@CoolCoyote Savea at 7 hmmm, not sure really. Savea would be a good impact off the bench. Blackadder? Ill-disciplined and though he has a high work rate he doesn't really do anything. If Robertson had chosen on performance and not a piece of paper with figures We could have had Sotutu, Kirifi, and I would like to see how Sititi would go at 6. I think, after watching him at Super Rugby, he could be a 6. Good defense, Fast and able to get off the scrum quickly, has the ability as a 4th option in the lineout and good attacking strength. Makes ground over the game line. Boy could we do with that. I know he normally plays nos. 8 but so did Akira Ioane and he was the best 6 this year by a long way.
It's pretty simple how many All blacks would be in a world 23 one we just aren't that good anymore blame the people who kicked South Africa teams and the Arggies out of super rugby
He is with wallabies. No 2 words inside staff : wayne Smith..mastermind tactical. Great winning expérience. He wil pass head coach performance to assistant attack
We havent seen anything new from Razor. Even his selection. Still struggling to settle on a loose forward combo as well as midfield questions not answered. AB lineout is not world class. On defense they dont seem to be getting off their line quick enough. Their replacements off the bench make the team weaker not stronger.
Jones is spot on. TJ was ponderous. His distribution was labored and not out front, and his box kicking was average and not well protected. Barrett probably didn't call for the ball because it was DMac's game to run...and he is a poor starting first-five at this level and against a rush defense. The ABs need a game manager at starting first-five and not a magician. Magicians are best used off the bench against a tiring opposition. Jordie did nothing on attack but run straight all day. He barely made it over the gain line and could not get his offloads away. Leon MacDonald has done a crap job...no innovation and inside backs unable to execute a game plan. This week I'd play Ratima 9, Clark 11, Barrett 10, ALB 12 (better form and uses his skill set in tight spaces better than Jordie), Proctor 13 (Rieko is not an attacking center who puts his wingers into space and passes the ball...still a power winger), Reece 14 and Jordan 15 with Hotham and DMac on the bench in a 6:2 split. Reece should be used to feed the scrum to add punch off 8, put the defending flankers in two-minds, and create space for the pivot (like the Boks did this weekend). As for the loosies, there was no cohesion between the three on attack. They did not maraud as a unit but as individuals who were quickly cut down. They were way too narrow and not used well out wide in support of the centers. Papali'i was AWOL on the attacking side, Blackadder inconsistent, and Ardie well covered...he had to slog hard to make his yards. Razor and MacDonald need to look at the Boks and how Rassie and Brown are using their locks and loosies on the attacking side. Or take a look at highlights reels of McCaw, Reid and Kaino or Kronfeld, Brooke and Jones. This week I'd play Blackadder 6, Ardie 7 and Sititi 8 with Jacobson (if fit) and Cane coming off the bench. Would also like to see Williams and Tosi used as the propping subs.
@@johannesapril2590 Exactly. Everyone blames Ioane but they forget that center is only as good as the ball he gets. Hospital passes from Jordie will hamper any 13 and it won't matter if Procter can pass to his wings or not. He will end up putting them in the same position as he was. Through no fault of his own. Start on the insides. Get rid of Perenara for Ratima, Jordie for ALB and leave Ioane at center. Robertson can't throw Procter to the Lions when we go to South Africa. The pattern needs to be set so he can make a difference. Have him on the bench to replace Ioane in the second half. Loosies 8 Sititi, 7 Papali'i, 6 Jacobson. If Robertson had picked the best performing 8 this year in Sotutu, I would like to see Sititi at 6. I believe he could be a good one. Blackadder runs around like a chicken with his head cut off. Ill disciplined, inaccurate.
Two tries were conceded by throwing the ball back wildly, or tapping it back wildly. Our forwards were not dominant, and our backs were like headless chooks. Shocking
I remember 98 when NZ lost 5 in a row. I myself heard all this before and thought no way back for them and at other stages in their history. They rebuilt pretty well from that so let's not knock them to soon.
As a South African, you are too critical of the AB. Teams around the world have gotten much better. The margins are much smaller, and one decision can change the whole dynamics of the game.
I think we can all agree - The Mighty All Blacks dominance for an era has come to an end. They 'were' dominant. The power struggle is up North now. The Tri Nations dominated World Rugby 1995-2019. Its over now. Except the Boks have also moved north. It is another era we witnessing now of rugby.
Well, there were 3 SH teams at the WC semis and 2 in the final. At the Olympics, there were again 3 SHZ teams but it was won by a NH side. It ebbs and flows.
I think SA playing in URC and EPCR is a huge development for NH rugby. We have been soft, but now there are no soft periods in tournaments or in the League. SA teams front up physically every single time and that us forcing NH teams to do the same.
Spot on mate 100% correct. For the AB's its only going to get worst. The only thing the AB's have left is their reputation. Their dominance is gone weather you like it or not. Nothing else. Not even their ANGER MANAGMENT DANCE HELPS. Teams use to have a psychological fear of them, thats gone now. No one fears them at all anymore. The Springboks made a 100% correct decision to go North for various reasons of which the time zone and money was only two of the reasons. I couldn't wait for that day and there you have it. That is why Aust and NZ rugby is in trouble. S/Rugby in NZ is a joke.
@@frankvendetta9230just shows how highly you rate the ABs that they made the world cup final and wouldve won if SA weren't gifted a card and have won every RC since 2019 yet you still say that they are poor just shows what high standards the ABs are expected to perform to as for going to the NH you werent any good in SR anyway 😂.
Devlin, still think Rieko is the issue when ALB missed 2 tackles which led to tries, and passed to the opposition almost leading to a 3rd try? The defence was solid against England - no-one was getting through the centre. Hmm, I wonder what changed....... "Pass the ball!!!" Not the wisest thing to do when you pass it to the opposite per ALB. There is a reason you don't pass under such defensive pressure which England bring as there is a high risk of being turned over. Razor chose too many Crusaders thinking he could turn back the clock and pick up where he left off with them. Unfortunately, there has been 12 months+ of rugby since those days and the Blues showed the way to play. The best eligible ball carriers in Super Rugby were not chosen - Akira Ioane, Lakai, Sotutu, and Clarke. Don't talk to me about having to be good on both sides of the ball when someone like Will Jordan is being picked who can only do one thing well. He also lacks any respect for cohesion. Kicking was not the way the Blues won Super Rugby - which is why they smashed the Chiefs in the final. Also, Antoine DuPont got shown up in the WC. He is taking this squad down the wrong path. A Christie and Plummer combination would be far more consistent and effective over 80 minutes which is how you win test rugby.
💯% .Akira,Talai,Sotutu are the calibre of players needed to add power in the contact & collision down the middle of the park to countering the aggressive Pumas.
I'm a bok fan.i don't care what the "pundits"say.the ABS are brilliant.you haven't suddenly become crap.some teams have just caught up.cant wait for the ABS BOKS tests coming up
You can have the best coach in rugby history but it will all be for nothing if the player can't preform. We currently DO NOT have the cattle to get the job done. Probably the weakest side both mentally and physically in All Blacks history.
Just can’t fathom why we don’t make our own defence a weapon like everyone else has. We seem to be astonished that the rest of the world won’t let us play the 2010s style of open space play we want. AND… it didn’t win Super Rugby this year… Vern Cotter must be watching all this with a wry smile on his face. Used a truckload of the same players to dominate their way to a final.
I hear what you are saying, but if we can't win in style, do we really want to watch? I remember as a kid, we all wanted to be Campo and do the goose step. Can you remember who were the All Black wingers at that time? Because I can't.
@@stevenbissett John Kirwan, Terry Wright, Craig Green, Inga the Winger, just so you know. I am sure the rugby public would prefer to win than lose with style.
@stevenbissett good idea. But just because you score less tries doesn't mean you have to lose. Tell Sth Africa and Ireland. Both have gone through those times and look at them now.
Robertson has served no apprenticeship at International 1st XV level as a coach under a Head Coach. NZR wasted time having Schmidt on the staff. Robertson should've been there .
He talks about problem solving. Yet we have one of the greatest rugby minds ever in Beauden . And the throw him at the back. He's the greatest 10 we've had for the past 10 years.
Get real. He used to be the best but teams have worked Beauden out. He was removed from the position because he couldn’t create pressure or create gaps. In the end he resorted to kicking and his passing was woeful allowing the opposition to read what he was doing. Remember everyone was blaming Sonny Bill first then Aaron Smith for the ineffectiveness of the backs. He’s good at fullback, there’s plenty of space for him to take opportunities. After all that’s what he is an opportunist.
@@2ztala Richie did nothing apart from a great 2023 season and DMAC has never accomplished anything at 10 against mediocre opposition. I agree he ended up being less effective but the other 2 never really did any better. The thing about BB is his skill set is even better now, his pace is still high and his rugby IQ is even higher plus he has more experience than most international backs. Yet a lot of kiwis like yourself can't see it while the rest of the world would envy having him at 10. But I would rather have Richie back, BB at 15 and Jordan at 14. Mainly because Richie became an incredible 10 so having those 3 on the field at the same time made us nearly unbeatable.
@@kanecampbell3145BB never for first five now. Couldn’t secure the spot for the Blues, which tells us that if he couldn’t make it in the Blues, he ain’t gonna make it for the ABs. He’s too stationary at ten when he receives the ball. Not now not ever. It’s fullback or nothing for BB.
Problem is the new breed of players in New Zealand want to play a rugby league style game, particularly Maori players. Rugby union has become much more like American football, where set plays, tactics, and systems win matches aligned to power and graft.
Yeah I've been wondering how long before it starts falling apart. Been scratching my head at JK's comments on 'boring' scrums & the like. Dazzle rugby is often at expense of hard@rsed forwards play (which the AB's historically excelled at - but not anymore). There's a reason why there's 8 fwds on the field, & its more than just linking plays for the backs. Back to basics boys.
The ABs have come off the back of a golden period which stretched for a very long time. During that period losing a game was a rare event. We were looking at maybe one loss a year tops. Other teams have. Certainly got better and the ABs have dropped off a bit from the absolute golden days. That said they are and always will be there or thereabouts in the big tournaments. The big difference now is they seem to shipping a few losses in between that would have seemed unthinkable in the past. Once that aura is shattered it’s very hard to get it back but could they win the rugby championship most years and the next World Cup. They could as they have that much talent. They probably just won’t have things their own way as much as they used to.
Give it a rest, nothing went their way, some uncharacteristic fumbles but hardly the end of the AB's. Lets give them the opportunity to put it right in a week !
Everyone has a game plan until they receive a punch in the face. -Mike Tyson Maybe AB had a game plan but Arg neutralized it? Maybe the englishphere is not the center of the universe?
Ardie isnt captaincy material either. Him and TJ were terrible their heads werent in it. They were both helping argentine players up off the deck at stoppages of play. Blackadder was fine but he's a 7 not a 6. I reckon he's better than dalton at 7. He creates a better link to the backs and is destructive in the middfield and carrying for Talea's try. He was also our top tackler and got the crucial steal in the lineout just before Ardie and co threw the game away for us.
@@austingtir Blackadder isn't an international 6 or 7. Dalton is. Ardie needs to be on bench as he creates great impact. As Robertson hasn't picked the best 8, Sititi should be there. I would have liked to see Dalton 7, Sititi 6, Sotutu 8.
The problem is players out of position. Dont have the best players cause of injury and need to change the run on players. But looks like the coaches wont change the players so its gonna be a rough ride.
No innovation in the backline. Second man back door plays are predictable. Pods are predictable. Trying to play the speed game is not going to make it less predictable.
@@DrissZyanisorrybutyourtimeisfi Grace a good 6. Sotutu best 8 all SR season but not selected in a performance based team. All the players you mentioned performed and Robertson chose Blackadder rather than one of the others. Got to wonder.
Martin uouve been around as long as me. Please help have the word “learnings” cut from NZ rugby. Its a bs word anyway and we never used it until we started losing. I want to hear “doing”.
Ag jeez, the New Zealand media is just horrible!! The ABs beat a great England, and let’s not forget you made the semi final and lost with one point! Just stop thinking it’s the end up the world and the players are the worst ever after dropping one game
The AB's fumbled their way to beat England. Can't say they were dominant in any facet. Can't count Fiji as Fiji just didn't turn up. I was looking forward to seeing them. Now they show they aren't learning. Performance based sport was what SR said. So why is Dmac, Jordi, and Reece there. Why is Blackadder, he has no performance to speak off. Match against Fiji he was just passable, maybe.
Haha have to laugh at an Englishman criticism of the AB’s when they couldn’t beat such a poor team. We all bagged Fozzie yet lost a WC by 1 point to a nation that has 4 or 5 times the playing resources to pick from. AB’s will bounce back, just look at the experienced players who aren’t there anymore.
Yeah time for TJ and Jordie to go to the bench at least never been a fan of Papalii and Blackadder isnt the same.I hope Razor doesn't do what fozzie did pick their favorites and play guys out of position
Blackadder was good in this match and was the only reason we were even in it with a chance until ardie and co threw the match away. He got a crucial steal in the lineout and way key in multiple carries up the field for Talea's try.
@@austingtir Does lots of work but he lacks discipline. Gives away penalty's at crucial times and showing up for one try and the lineout doesn't make a good player. When Jacobson is fit Blackadder shouldn't be in the 23.
@@markreilly105 Just LMFAO, dalton is a poor mans cane and Jacobson shouldnt even be in the squad. Sututu should be at 8 with blackadder at 7 and ardie or whoever at 6.
@@austingtir Blackadder shouldn't be in the squad. Funny that Dalton is rated by people, coaches and ex players, overseas but Blackadder isn't. Dalton was form 7 in SR and made a difference to the Auckland loosies every time he played. Blackadder is ill disciplined. 6 Finau or Jacobson, 7 Dalton, 8 Sotutu. We agree on the number 8 😀 Would have like Akira Ioane to be available. Again the form nos 6.
@@markreilly105 Dalton is just another one dimensional guy that can tackle like Cane. Thats it. He's not an AB level 7 Cane should of been gone in 2021 when blackadder emerged and played out of his skin against the boks. Cane only performed in one or two games in his entire career. Blackadder offers a real link to the backs which none of our other loosies do including Savea (which in itself is crazy), He's the best lineout loose forward next to S Barrett (sotutu should be in the squad for that ability alone). As long as guys like Tuungafasi, TJ, J Barrett, Ioane, Dmac, Dalton, Jacobson and an out of form Savea are viewed as undroppable starters this team is going to loose alot of games. I would of also had Akira Ioane and Sotutu in the squad (because then he'd have options to replace Ardie who's clearly out of form and satiti isnt anywhere near ready) thats about the only thing I agree with you on. But that horse has already bolted and Razor has goofed bigtime there.
and yet with all of that trouble, if only robertson had played Jordan on the right wing instead of slow rece we would have gone a long way to winning the game . also robertson is a bit too cuddly and cute for me. playing the horrible woke mullet at 9 was a joke, if he had played hotham from the start and ratimer off bench then we would have won it. but the wins over england could have been losses. NZRU are as dumb as shit letting go of tony brown. dmac isnt as good as bb at ten. bb and darry on thr night played well. lastly total arrogance at deciding to go for corner instead of tasking the 3s on offer. typical big headedness in a game now that is so close anyone of 7 teams in the world can beat each other on the day/night. bring back fozzy , remember roberston has to at least make the final of the next world cup otherwise he will go down as worse than fozzy.
Its just about being clinical. Perenara box kicks being charged down a few times or he gets them away but they go straight up, 2 miss passes that lead to the ARG try, losing lineouts. Was like watching NZ trying to play a mix of a few strategies that just was not working. I am sorry to say McKenzie is not your 10, a great player and excellent impact player but you need someone like Mo'unga. (From SA supporter, felt bad for the ABs, since we have been there... a lot)
From England it looks like NZ doesnt have the same cattle it did, SA and france have better and more consistent forwards and your half's are good but not special. Aside from Ardie, not many ABs would get in a world 15 now. And abandon the misconception that SR is at the same level as the European leagues, watch highlights from the later stages of the European champions cup, its chocked full of test match animals and monsters playing high skilled aggressive rugby. NZ will recover but the dominant days are over. If NZ lose less than five games this season thats not a bad return, i personally expect them to lose twice to SA and atleast two of England France and Ireland. Give razor time, hes not a magician.
NZ since year 2020 lost 12 tests; SA 4, Ire 3, Argies 3, France 2. So many NZ fans said Razor will be the saviour. Time will tell. NZ threw all they had at the Argies including their scandalous cheating rugby. Mainly consisting of a multetude of side entries, dive-ins, not support own weight and sealing off ! Yet they still lost ! We predicted Razor will re- intrduce it and also seen against England ! Earlier we were informed 10 from Samoa in the group. How many from Fiji and Tonga. Is it a Oseanic team ? Eddie Jones told The Breakdown that NZ has the best Academie on the planet !!! Kirwin was against scrums. This weekend he points out hardly any scrums to launch attacks from or put pressure on. Become the laughing stock of the rugby world. All over it is highlighted !!!
The only thing the AB's have left is their reputation. Their dominance is gone weather you like it or not. Nothing else. Not even their ANGER MANAGEMENT DANCE helps. Take note - they will lose more in the 2024 RC.
NZ rugby is in decline and unlikely to change. They don't have the class of players anymore. The so called development plan for new talent has produced negligible returns. Half of super rugby players have been selected and many just disappear back into obscurity quicker than the season's come and go.
A lot of players go missing in action. I am afraid that the ABs wont be able to bridge the gap for the Eden Park game. History will be created for the Pumas in the next game.
As a european kiwi i hate to admit but i think were not as good because we have too many of our boys in there and less of our rugged brown boys who are much more athletic and run hard and straight.
You’re not wrong. We need a scary Jerry Collins, a scary Jonah Lomu and a Scary Ma’a Nonu. We don’t have that intimidating factor anymore. We look soft therefore our opponents are more confident
This is not the All Black team we as Springboks have respected. Remember John Mitchell's 52 16 drubbing of us in our own back yard? Springboks need those All Blacks to keep us honest.
Oh my god it's the end of the world I don't know how the New Zealanders will get over this blah blah blah I'm pretty sure the ABs will smash the Argentinians this weekend..whatever.
I think really now that Razor was bad appointment. He discovers the test international ! Yeah guy..it is not super rugby. Razor has international expérience to coach the all blacks. Best solution : jamie Joseph vern cotter. I dont believe that Razor will stay long time, overall if he loses in the fortress eden park. For his ego, he can resign and admit that he is not the man for the job.
@@philliproberts7294vern cotter jamie Joseph are guys which want to be head coach and not assistant. Solution inside : wayne Smith becomes assistant attack
With the worry about brain damage you are not going to have the same quality of players coming through the grades smart ones don’t play and others give up as it’s not worth the risk. So less players means low quality players a that means the All Blacks become the Average Blacks.
