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I hope we get some sort of acknowledgement of the fact that the Doctor destroyed Carla’s kitchen ceiling?? In RTD1 Rose and the Doctor breaking Jackie’s coffeetable was a big deal and seeing Carla just laugh off the giant hole in her ceiling was wild to me.
The cracks also disappeared in Space Babies I noticed. I think all these continuity "errors" are on purpose. Like 11 having his tweed jacket on in Flesh and Stone
we keep on forgetting how Ruby made such a big deal about going out in the past without proper clothes as if it was actually also her first time visiting the past. So it seems that in 6 months they haven't actually went on any adventures in the past at all, or only just to the earth's future, so I think this will be valid towards the finale as it seems like time and reality are in flux
I actually skipped episodes this time (one and only since watching in 2005) to see Bubble and Dot and I think that would have made a good second or third episode, with something other than The Devils Chord as the second. Bubble and Dot doesn't really add to much overarching story of Ruby and The Doctor until the end. That episode really adds to the idea that the worlds isn't how they think it is (when Lindy tricked them anf refused help) so it might be a bit early for the Doctor to break down like that, but it's pretty self contained and doesn't need much more explanation than the Doctor and Ruby go to help people. Although, it might have drawn negative comparisons to it being like Black Mirror, or Ricky Sundays death being honestly pretty PG brutal
That and Millie said "studio 2 where we're filming episode 2" during filming. I thought the same when watching though, that it had been moved, or something Timey-wimeyness.
@@ftumschkGood point! I think it's hard to say because of streaming on Disney Plus it is considered episode 1, and the others are all specials and separately considered mini films. I'm not living outside of the UK for the first time so Disney is how I'm watching
@@Aneurin_Huntprobably, I have the script books for series one and they have a lot of movement and changes talked about there that's corroborated in The Writers Tale. Also, I think they probably wanted an attention grabbing episode especially since it's been so long since the casting and costume for Maestro was released
The two episode drop definitely wasn't planned, in the Doctor Who unleased for Space Babies, Steffan Powell says here's a sneak peek for next week and they show a clip from Devil's Chord. Nobody must have told him they were releasing them together.
Honestly I think maybe it would've been better if The Devil's Chord and Rogue had swapped places, especially since Rogue airs on June 8th so had The Devil's Chord aired then instead it would've lined up with the mention of Ruby's time being June 2024. I wonder if this was the plan originally but they decided to make The Devil's Chord Episode 2 so it would fit perfectly before Eurovision, since well, music!
If you take away the tiresome to and fro discussions about culture wars and wokeness, is there anyone else who just thinks that the show has lost a level of engagement, interesting ideas and awesome narrative hooks and moments? I love Doctor Who and always have but other than "Wild Blue Yonder" (which was a minor classic in my eyes) I've just felt so unenthused by the show in recent years. It's like they think of some reasonably cool stuff but just cannot stick a landing. What they really need is a good freelance Sci-Fi writer who they can regularly commission for tight and interesting concepts and stories. Essentially a Nu-Who answer to Robert Holmes.
An interesting take. I sort of get where you're coming from too, I found stuff like the dance number being slightly too long in Devil's Cord, and I can safely say I absolutely love musical theatre itself. I feel like the dance number would have worked better if it was slightly shorter but don't shorten it too much otherwise it won't work at all!
Technically Ruby is right to be aware that The Doctor usually does not run away. In The Church on Ruby Road, The Doctor did not run away at all until he saved the day- Even going as far to run across the roof of a building and leap onto a ladder twice. In Space Babies, The Doctor may have ran away, but he himself drew attention to the fact that he usually doesn't.
It is true. Honestly, I can't think of many incidents when The Doctor has full on introduced himself to a monster twice his size without being at least a little nervous. The only incident that really comes to mind is one of the best Doctor Who cliffhangers ever, which is in the middle of Doctor Who & the Sillurians (The only story to literally start its own title with: "Doctor Who and"). The Cliffhanger isn't amazing because of the cliffhanger itself, but rather how it's resolved. The Third Doctor is in a room and a Sillurian enters with creepy music playing. That's literally the entire Cliffhanger. But how it's resolved is The Doctor just calmly holding out his hand for a handshake as he asks: "Hello. Are you a Sillurian?"
If The Devil's Cord was not meant to be episode 2, I wonder if they'll retroactively change the order of the episodes in the future. I mean, Disney+ is a streaming website and The Church on Ruby Road can be found there twice, once as a stand-alone special and as part of the new season.
I may be giving the writers too much credit, but it would be neat if since Doctor Who is a time travel show, some of the events after Space Babies are being shown out of order.
Ncuti also says he told Ruby about The Toymaker when they first met. Yeah....in the novel (and therefore original script) he did. Quite a lot of sloppiness coming in, sadly. Pairing Space Babies and Devil's Chord makes zero sense. It's set a narrative of the era being so....silly. It needed contrasting eps to show newbies it can be THIS or...THAT. Not this, or this XXL.
That is possible but thought that space babies may not be a solid season opener so they moved up devils chord like some American tv shows have done with changing an episodes order like an episode of full house in season one that was aired after the garage was converted into a room for Joey but had the garage intact saying this was meant to be earlier in the season but got held back for whatever reason
Yeah establishing normalcy if important, if for example in Fleabag, if hot priest revealed he could hear Fleabag's fourth wall breaks in episode 1, it would be so much of a less impactful reveal later on.
To me there is credence to the idea TDC was moved, but there’s also a lot that counters that. RTD mentioned that episode 2 was called the Devil’s Chord a long time ago now and is the article not just saying it’s Ruby’s first adventure on an alien planet from the audience’s perspective? Or that maybe it’s that the article was written by someone who wasn’t aware of the time jump or forgot about it and so thinks this is her first time?
I think it might just be a too big gap. It's ordered correctly, I just think they maybe went too far ahead. I don't think there's anything that shows the doctor with Carla was at Christmas. In fact isn't wearing the same outfit. He's wearing an orange top. Not the space babies outfit. We've blindly assumed the chat with Carla is directly after space babies.
It reminds me of "The Doctor's Wife" and "Night Terrors" from Series Six. "The Doctor's Wife" was supposed to be Episode Nine, and "Night Terrors" was supposed to be Episode Four. Which is why in "Night Terrors" when the Doctor meets Amy and Rory after the events of the episode, he says that it's nice to be together again, in the flesh. Because originally, this was supposed to take place before "The Rebel Flesh"/"The Almost People" and was supposed to foreshadow Amy being a Ganger. But due to tonal issues, the episodes were swapped around. In fact, if you look unbelievably closely at Amy, it seems that Karen Gillan's weight has indeed changed between the episodes, a remark that the Doctor makes in "The Impossible Astronaut". I think that means Amy was supposed to be a Ganger in "Night Terrors", and she was the real deal in "The Doctor's Wife".
Throughout this series I have continually thought that the arrangement of episodes was unusual, with odd ups and downs, and with the Doctor and companion “lite” episodes in the middle (which were the first episodes they filmed, even though, frankly they shouldn’t have had any “lite” episodes in a series of eight with Disney backing). It’s almost like they took one of Russel’s old 13 episode series, then removed the two, non-finale, two-parters. Basically, if I were to structure the series along the old lines, The Church on Ruby Road would be episode 1, Space Babies would be episode 2 (but with bigger stakes or a real monster), The Devil’s Chord and Boom would episodes 6 and 7 (or vice versa), and 73 Yards and Dot And Bubble would 10 and 11. The premiere is cross between a standard second episode of a series and the breather episode that goes before a finale, we only see snow in the two episodes immediately after the premiere, the Maestro is too much of a “boss” villain to have in episode two, the next episode is bottle episode without the bottle, and the following quarter of the series’s episodes barely have the Doctor at all. Weirdly the episode where the Doctor falls for, and snogs, a man is the most business-as-usual episode we’ve had this series. We need more typical episodes, with a more normal series structure, and with a proper episode count.
So many of these episodes feel out of place honestly, especially The Devil's Chord when Ruby is bigging up the Doctor, when in Space Babies he ran away from the Bogeyman and also was notable and oddly out of his depth.
Probably my only complaint from the first two episodes is the weird time gap. & the way Jynkx was marketed also suggests that this was meant to be a mid-season episode.
Late to the party, but I have a theory that might be able to make sense of the time gap. In Space Babies, the Doctor notes that his memory of Ruby's mother actively changed, so what if time itself is changing around Ruby? Some of it things the Doctor notices, such as his memory of Ruby's mother, and some of it so small it blips past him, like Ruby's native date and time now being mid-2024 rather than December 2023/early 2024. The Doctor is not infallible, he does get things wrong and miss things, so maybe Ruby's conventional time changing to something a little in the future could be something he just missed. Now, why would time be changing around Ruby? Well, for that, I need to bring up something from 2011. In The Sarah Jane Adventures, in series 5, we are introduced to Sky Smith, the alien artifically grown child whom Sarah Jane adopts. Had it not been for the unfortunate passing of Elisabeth Sladen, series 5 would have ended with The Battle for Bannerman Road, a story where it would be revealed that Sky is a child of the Trickster, an immortal, transcendental being who feeds and thrives on chaos. The Trickster had part of his essence instilled in Sky when she was made, and manipulated events to lead her to Sarah Jane as part of his plan to take over the world with chaos. In other words, Sky would be 'half-Trickster'. So, what if Ruby is intended to be a spiritual successor to Sky, in a way? There are many mysteries around her, such as why her mother gave her up, why no one is able to find traces of her parents (yes, I know that does happen in real life, but just go with me here), and why her memories seem to bleed into reality (the snow). Maybe Ruby is connected in some way to The One Who Waits? Maestro notes that the Oldest One must have been present during the day the goblins nearly ate Ruby, and may be the reason Carol of the Bells is embedded in her soul, so what if Ruby, like with Sky and the Trickster, is a 'child' of the One Who Waits? Outwardly, she is human, to the point where even the TARDIS can only detect that she is human, yet some part of her, perhaps hidden away so deeply that even Time Lord technology cannot find it, could be related to the One Who Waits, as part of their plan to bring themselves into the universe. Perhaps she is a manifestation or aspect of the One Who Waits, and time is changing around her because the One Who Waits is looming closer and closer.
Wonder if the "reformatting" (Devils Chord as 1x02) might have also hurt my concerns that the episode actually starts in the 1920's instead of just a one off in 1963. Maybe had it been later in the season and they'd dropped hints that Maestro was coming... Maybe seeing Harbinger pop up unexpectedly across multiple times/places. Just like at the end of the episode... Was he actually in 1963? (Not just a bit of fun 4th wall break) His uniform is shown to not be a part of the character so was that his 1920's uniform or was 1963 Schoolboy uniforms still like that... Basically I'm saying Maestro/Harbinger could have worked better as an on coming threat. Vs a "one off"?
i was initially highly critical of this time jump bc it felt so messy but now im thinking it's like an eleventh doctor's jacket in flesh and stone situation and it'll all make sense at the end - maybe the episodes are in the order of events from susan twist's perspective? idk man im just holding out hope
@@MrTARDIS i want to ask your opinion on something Rtd is building up the toymaker to be one of the pantheon But the toymaker is already a guardian of time according to some novels And an elder god according to bigfinish What do you think?
@@Mohammedamine9. All the god-like beings in Doctor Who seem to exist in over-lapping affinities, and the lack of singular continuity adds to this confusion.
My best guess is that maybe it's like the dynamic in series 7a, or the dynamic with some of Clara's era, where the Doctor will leave the companions to live their lives for a while and drop in occasionally for an adventure. Either way though, its still an odd thing to mention for the second episode and only the third appearance of a companion.
I’m really glad this wasn’t just me, I feel a bit crazy with the move between the two eps where the devils cord felt a lot more like it should’ve been like the unquiet dead a period or Vincent and the doctor placement later in the season, I’m really hoping this finest fuck with the series overall structure, because I have loved so much of what’s in these episodes
The Devils chord was okay but i feel like the current tone is a bit too bombastic for me. The fourth wall breaks, theatrical performances and cartoonish delivery has made me feel a bit.. meh I don’t feel blown away by the current 3 episodes. I understand the direction and style, it suits Ncuti’s dr very well. Ncuti’s great, I’m warming to Millie but its still early days. Devils chord has been my favourite so far out of the 3 Ncuti lead episodes. The musical number made sense within the toymaker-like world, almost acting as the drs “prize” for defeating Jinx. I’m looking forward to BOOM as i do love Moffat but i’m worried he may fall back to a formula used before: Big catastrophe People die Big speech by the dr Big friendly reset button
I loved The Devil's Chord, significantly more than the space babies but aye the weird time issues are... An issue I remember saying to myself out loud "well we're only two episodes in so the one who waits can't be that near yet..."
Maybe you're right about the "push the button" thing. As it aired, it seemed like setup with no punchline. But maybe it's punchline with removed setup.
unless shes not a consistent companion who lives on the tardis and just one that gets picked up from time to time like clara in the 12th doctors first season.
Pacing has been one of my biggest issue with Doctor Who, it's something that's been holding the show back for almost a decade, but still they insist in giving episodes barely an hour. I admire the ambition of this era, but changes need to be made to make it work.
If you’re worried about this discrepancy don’t lose sleep over Ace’s wearing Flowerchild’s earring in Silver Nemesis….before she visited Segonax…..or UNIT continuity……or the varying length of Troughton or Davison’s hair sometimes within the same story. Business as usual!
Once the full episode is out, I'm definitely gonna rewatch it but watch The Devils Chord as like, episode 6 or smth, and see if it flows better like that. Cos yeah "The one who waits is almost here" and Ruby being from June 2024, it's either sloppy or there's something a bit more weird and timey wimey going on
The same reason _love_ saves the day in Closing Time. That said, one could reason that some social function that music serves is so important that without it the world _would_ be worse. It's not so ubelievable. Like, playing games facitlitates certain kinds of collaboration. There's lots of aspects of human culture that facilitate collaboration over conflict... such that a world without music could be literally worse, is some substantial way, even if nuclear war is a hyperbolic outcome.
We came so close to nuclear fallout in the Cold War, it’s not that much of a stretch to imagine that a world without music could have pushed tensions even just a little bit higher and led to the end of the world.
It's the butterfly effect, as the Doctor explained in Space Babies. If music didn't have its influence at any point during the time periods shown in The Devil's Chord, that one small change could make a huge difference for human history.
@@joevictor53 Yep, you hit the nail on the head. If there were a few cords leading in it would have worked better. It's just bam we're off, and makes absolutely no sense because there is no clarification as to why, and yes you can read between the lines and say it's Maestro still but the trouble is for something so jarring, an explanation is needed.
@@jukesy1992 I hope it comes back later in the series and they say that this was someone messing with reality and these guys didn't even realise they were singing and dancing
@@joevictor53 That's apparently exactly what it's meant to be. Someone called Ben Foster says that the actual script directions mention that it's due to Maestro.
Something is majorly wrong with the Tardis too 🤔 little subtle things but something is wrong in general, everything seems off but I think there is a reason that it’s all building to
I was really disappointed with Devil's Chord. Specifically RTD not fully rmbracing some of the logic in the Dada art movement (which did include music and performance arts). If you want to go down the no music = Earth dying route, the very least RTD could do is have the Doctor reference at least on Dada artist and explain that their art movement feared humanity becoming too logical that they would eventualky lose their emotions and cause a srcond World War. Hell, the episode started in 1925 when the art movement was in full swing. How can RTD come up with an analogy fir how corrupt Republicans have been in regards to abortion but in this episode it's literally only "no music is sad." It's like seeing Moffat write Silver Nemesis. The missed potential is infuriating.
Diegetic music means the music actually exists in the media's universe and the characters can hear it. For example, in 'Shaun of the Dead' Queen's "Don't Stop Me Now" is Diegetic because it's playing on the Jukebox and the characters are reacting and responding to it. Non-Diegetic means the music can't he heard by the characters, like a musical score or licensed music that the characters don't know about but the audience can hear. So when the Doctor reacts to Ruby being carried away by Murray Gold's soundtrack, he's surprised because he thought the music he could hear was "non Diegetic". A.k.a. the Doctor might be away of Murray Gold's music in the episodes he's in.
Is it sloppy or is it just normal. Thers always been stories in between episodes that are alluded to that we never see. Now I don't know about the Chib's era because I tapped out early but jumps in time from one episode to another is not unheard of.
Normally that would be fine but it's so weird to include a 6 month time jump right after we see Ruby's first adventure in the Tardis. Any gaps for expanded media should have been in between this season and the next one, or at the very least halfway through the season.
I'm sure I remember Russell saying, way back, that the second episode would be "proper, hard, science fiction". I call shenanigans. I smell a rat. Well. A mouse.
I'm not hopeful for this One Who Waits denouement. He'll be another overblown damp squib as easily defeated as every other Davies Ex Machina villain in every one of his stories. I hope I'm wrong but I said the same about the Toymaker. He missed a ball? FFS.
@@LauraGS564 Presumably the same person who hurt you so much that a fair point about RTD's inability to deliver in a finale made you respond in such a way.
Disney interfered it it’s why they cut all the Cilla black scenes because Americans don’t know her. Also the sugar babes because Americans don’t know them. Prove me wrong . 😢
Thankfully this Doctor Poo will finally put this show out of it's misery. The BBC / Disney can't justify the money they are wasting on this show with regard to the totally abysmal viewing figures which are only going to get worse. 😂✌
Episode 1 was awful episode two was so much better but still not great :( I’ve heard a rumour that the bbc and Disney aren’t happy with the viewing figures and reactions and rtd might be going after series 2
