pardon the clickbaity title but frankly it's kinda true it's just more comedic than it is dramatic Patreon - / punchystream Twitch - / punchy Twitter - / succinct_punchy Discord - / discord
FAQ: Q.) Couldn't you enforce an input display/handcam? A.) Not really, no. Beyond the invasiveness of this, It's a PC game that can accept keyboard, mouse and gamepad input simultaneously and Supply can be bound to literally any button you please. Also, with the exception of expensive uncommon speciality devices, there is no way to mandate this for console speedruns. Q.) Couldn't you force the timer to be displayed? A.) we actually already do this for PC runs, but for console runs this doesn't work. also staring at the timer for slight variations in timescale on a PC port that's already a bit unstable performance wise (one of the advantages of the IGT was not having to worry about occasional fluctuations in performance) is just not a very appealing solution. Q.) Couldn't you ban using the button when no item is equipped? A.) There's pretty much no way to tell if someone is doing this, it's a completely invisible input. Q.) Couldn't you just agree not to use this? A.) Speedrun leaderboards above a certain size can't really abide by gentlemen's agreements but also lmao no i will ruin everyone's lives immediately I have no honour and no mercy Q.) Could the community create a patch for the game that stops this behaviour? A.) Maybe? Not sure who'd do that though. Like unless someone actually manifests that, it's kind of just a nice idea, I'm generally operating under the assumption someone will not magically solve the problem for us. Q.) How fast can this be done? A.) Pretty much every other frame assuming perfect mashing speed, so you'd save 0.5s every full second. This gets very silly very fast.
I think this issue might even be worse than you made it out to be since there's a multitude of programs one could use to automatically press a key/button at truly inhuman speeds, for example joy2key or even Steam's built in controller remapping feature. Someone could conceivably have a setup where they have a pedal bound to auto-fire the supply key (either as a toggle or simply hold it down when they want to lag the timer), which would be trivial to hide even if they had a face/hand cam setup showing their controller and keyboard at all times.
What I don't understand is how the two timers got so desynced that the "Real Time" records two minutes when the "Game Time" records four, when Real Time is the one that would have to account for pauses and all that. If anything you would expect Real Tme to always be higher.
my immediate thoughts were requiring input overlay, some kind of theoretical community patch, requiring an external igt for PC runs, or banning use of the supplies button in “trips through rooms that have legitimate uses for the button” (ie, if you take two trips through a room, but only use the button in the second visit, you cant use it up save time in the first, and you can’t use it in the room before which has no use for the supplies button outside of the timer pause), though this last one seems rife for nasty semantics and exploitation
input overlay is basically impossible to enforce consistently for a PC game that can accept every keyboard input, some mouse input and gamepad input simultaneously like how do you mandate someone display every single input device connected to their computer. you can map Supplies to *anything*
@@PunchyYT yeah its all just way too messy. real time is def the cleanest solution unless someone is really willing to dive into the software of the game. i can think of a couple of options but i cant determine if the needed effort is worth it over just going to rta
Bless Punchy! I enjoy this as well, and pray for your enjoyment throughout the process of establishing fairness on the leaderboards. May you be supplied with joy!
Watching this, I suddenly remembered that older RU-vid video with Heather dressed in the Magical girl outfit and dancing. It's got that song "This is your Night" sung by Amber and has that hilarious dance in different parts of the game.
@@jayninja2747 Another question would be: How do you ensure that it's used, that it remains in use, and how do you ensure every variable input key is accounted for? You could (potentially) set the input to a foot pedal if you're clever enough.
@@DrakolfGrimm Maybe it could detect when there is a 1-frame pause on the timer rather than an input, and the timer changes color every time this 1-frame pause occurs
Maybe switch to RTA on PC, and just collectively agree to not do it on console? It's pretty hard to press R3 rapidly, since it makes the stick wobble all over the place (assuming it can't be rebound or coudn't be automated somehow, and assuming console runners are less common so it would be easier to moderate).
I'd say just leave it alone and see what happens. I'm under the impression that most people would get tired of spamming a single key for possibly several hours depending on attempts that day. I'm also under the impression that most people run for fun, so I'm possibly very naive.
Geez, hearing about it just now, that's both funny and frustratingly sad. On one hand, there are probably plenty of ways to counteract this. My immediate idea was to add a program that adds a frame count every time the supply option is activated. But on the other, they'd just make getting runs done for the game that much more of a hassle. Given this was 8 odd months ago, I'm going to guess a conclusion was reached at some point. Either way, my condolences.
So I know this video is months old now, but has someone actually done a run spamming the supplies key? It seems like pressing the key causes a slight stutter, which means the game is running slower as well; I even saw it when you were spamming it. Wouldn't that mean the game timer running slower doesn't actually mean anything?
well then, it's a perfect time to rename this silly little championship into the "slowrun". Rules are quite simple. The slower you are, the more chances that everyone believe you didn't in fact excessively smash inappropriate buttons.
Can you rebind it on consoles, because at least on consoles the trigger button is a bit hard to mash. I guess best result is someone making a patch for pc, but again that relies on someone making a patch.
Couldn't you simply just, run a timer when verifying runs and pause when it should be paused, and compare at the end? Because if its as serious as you say, it should be fairly noticeable even if you aren't the most accurate with manually pausing?
that's uh, asking a leaderboard mod to spend 30+ minutes on every run that is submitted to check for cheating before accepting, that's not really a reasonable ask
This is why im not bothered anymore about wr and such. Nothing is pure and always there are "cheat" methods, which there are purist defending, or not defending. This couldve been solved with camera, which you've could study throughy afterwards if there was a button "cheat" or not. I like Punchy, and Silent Hill. But Im done with this lol. 100% runs is more fun, and less cheaty.
Wow! Awful! Speedrunning is ruined FOREVER Real serious talk does this have like, an upper limit? Like it kind of reminds me of OMORI where mashing is faster for clearing dialogue so that's why I'm curious.
But does it actually pause the IGT? It could pause the execution of the entire program and run other code like this pseudocode: "do we have an item stored in memory? If so, do whatever that item does" Then resume game after the execution again because lazy coders. To be sure you'd have to speedrun the game with a macro spamming "H" and see if you save alot of time compared to RTA.
yes thanks we have already done this it does in fact pause the IGT in the manner I described I did in fact, make sure of this before uploading this lol
@@PunchyYT Glad to hear you did a deep dive! Shouldn't have doubted the research master Theoretically you could enforce a livesplit trigger on PC that adds a counter of how many times the code responsible for item usage is called and compare it to legit uses of items in the run.
