I find it hard to believe he never held pride for jaime who was one of the best swordsmen in westeros. Maybe he lost some level of pride after banging his sister or other things he did as an adult.. but growing up i find it hard he didnt have immense pride for his son
The only reason he didnt value Tyrions intelligence more is because Tyrion was a dwarf, a blemish on the family name, and less than perfect. He HATED that he saw so much of himself in Tyrion, and also resented that Tyrions birth caused the death of the Woman he loved. Tywin is still a vile person, but such a complex character.
Given Charles Dance's experience, it would be a waste to not have him interacting with the younger actors. And it's learning by doing. There are obviously other actors, but Brother Numpsie is likely the best one for this part of the story
Except did he? His son is one of the smartest character in the books yet he treats him like a monster that killed his mother. It's meant to show Tywin has the capacity to be a good person/role model/father figure. He simply chooses not to with his own kids. It actually paints him in an even worse light than someone who is just incapable of that kind of attachment to someone. He is capable yet chooses the opposite when it comes to the people closest to him.
Sure, he admired her intelligence, but the moment she said "my lord" he knew she was noble-born. Notice only noble-born people say "my lord" in GOT/ASOIAF. Low-born say "milord." Keeping her around was beneficial as he could collect ransom once he figured out to which house she belonged. He had no reason to believe she'd escape with a mythical assassin.
This was when GOT was still at the top of its game. The dynamic between Tywin and Arya was fascinating. Intellect, recognizing intellect. They’re both ruthless, they’re both clever, though only one is cruel. One irony is that they are very much alike, even though they are diametrically opposed . The second irony is, if fate had allowed them to be related, since she was born, a girl he would’ve crushed her spirit long ago and she would never have developed into the person he admires.
@@khaelamensha3624no, she SHOULD have said "m'lord" if she was actually smallfolk. Her "my lord" was a giveaway that she was a member of a great house, not just some random peasant.
Tywin wouldn't expect anything special from some random girl, presumably a runaway from a minor noble house traveling in disguise. He immediately recognized Arya's cleverness and resourcefulness, traits he values. Of course he'd be pleasantly surprised to have a potentially useful servant fall right into his hands. It's just pragmatism from a softer angle, because that's where Tywin's virtue begins and ends.
He values intellect above all and is pleased not everyone out there is a complete buffon. He probably thinks he would've done the same in her shoes hence why he's impressed.
@@oscarvozzi7548 Man you must feel stupider than the guard for saying this huh? If I recall correctly George even commented on how clever it was to have them meet at Harranhal and how he wished he’d have done it himself.
The scenes of Tywin and Arya really are some of the greatest in the whole show. It’s the only time the audience gets to see a bit behind the mask of Tywin Lannister
If tyrion hadnt been a dwarf he wouldve been Tywins favorite He wasnt nice to any of his family cuz they were all insane selfish spoiled morons Tywin pulled his family from the brink due his own fathers stupidity as a young man. He expected people to pull their weight in the family, and lets face it, they rarely ever did Tywin reminds me of a tiger mom or a stage parent
Seeing a girl disguised as a boy got Tywin's curiosity, but then hearing the girl speak in a manner unlike the common folk got his attention. He made Arya his cupbearer because he needed to make sure she wasn't *just* pretending to be a boy, on the off chance she's someone important posing as a commoner.
In the novels it is Roose Bolton in lieu of Tywin Lannister. If I recall it correctly, he openly states she is highborn posing as a commoner, and this little mystery entertains him. She tries to denny it but he calls atention to the fact that only those raised in the nobility call each other "my lady" or "my lord", like she does when she talks to him. Peasants call noblemen "milady" or "milord" and think that is the only way to say it.
part of a generation of actors to fade into the wind.Such a fantastic actor. I still remember him in last action hero... need more actors like him. Pure gold.
@@vincentgarzoli3197 I feel like it killed Tywin inside a little bit to admit that Tyrion was the only one he could trust with the position at that time. He knows Tyrion can do the job, but would rather he not get any glory or rewards for doing the job well if it can be helped. He made Tyrion Master of Coin because either Tyrion would fail at it and have just cause for Tywin to punish him further or he will do well and help the kingdom's financials (I would add "and learned how to handle money" but I think that is only useful to Tywin if he planned on making Tyrion his heir. He would rather see the realm burn than let Tyrion run the west though. Even his position as Hand was always meant to be temporary.)
@@Devlerbat I agree with nearly all of that. My point was more along the lines of Tywin, being nobody’s fool, is well aware of his children’s strengths and weaknesses, and being a master manipulator himself, he knows which of them to deploy and for what to obtain the best result. For that reason, Tywin does not hesitate, to set aside his instinctual disgust with Tyrion’s existence over the death of Johanna while giving birth to Tyrion and his suspicions that Aerys fathered Tyrion, never mind his prideful self-image that he could not possibly sire a freakish-looking issue such as The Imp. Moving Tyrion to Master of Coin, though potentially a hazard given his disfavored Son’s personally liberal relationship with spending, was a further power move by Tywin to maintain control over the Kingdom’s levers of authority, because he knew that he could count on Tyrion’s one-way loyalty to the Lannister Family to beget an honest effort and discreet, faithful reporting to his Lord Hand. This enabled him to maneuver Littlefinger out of King’s Landing, and keep additional leverage over Joffrey and Cersei, lest they forget their place in the pecking order of House Lannister. Tyrion may not have been loved, even liked by Tywin, but as with all persons in the elder Lannister’s perspective, he was a tool to be used when and where applicable.
This is another example of Tywin being absolutely razor sharp when it comes to anything but his kids. He saw right through Arya's disguise the same way he saw right through Pycelle's cripple act.
See? I don't know about that. I often wondered how Tywin could tell that it was a girl disguised as a boy, and then I remembered how in the books, it was mentioned that Cersai would sometimes dress herself up in Jaime's clothes when they were kids just to see what would happen. They were identical twins, so she could easily get away with it. So Tywin has experience with girls masquerading as boys. So actually Tywin did pay attention to his kids, it's just as adults they disappointed him.
Yes. Arya probably reminded him of how Cersei used to be. Rebellious, clever, and Vicious. All traits that Tywin respects. Didn't Cersei herself say that she was the most like her father of the siblings?
@@mariabasile9961I'm sure Cersei said it and believed it, but she was no where near as intelligent as he was and completely lacked any and all patience and discipline which were some of Tywin's chief traits that allowed him to advance his plans in the way he did.
@@mariabasile9961 Cersei did say that, but Tywin's own sister Genna said that Tyrion is the one that is truly Tywin's son - both to Jaime and Tywin himself. Cersei is not the best authority on herself, narcissistic and self-centred that she is.
Tywin is one of my favorite characters. Couldn't have picked a better guy to play him either. I wish game of thrones finished as strongly as it started because the early seasons were pure gold.
If you like Charles Dance, then watch his performance in The Phantom of the Opera, the TV movie he did in 1990. He was my first Phantom, and he was wonderful.. ❤❤❤
Even without armor: his eco terrorist/mercenary Jonah in KotM was no less commanding. It's just too bad we didn't get to see him again after that movie. Maybe the one next year.
Honestly Arya ending up as Tywin's cupbearer actually makes more sense than her being Bolton's in the books. Realistically it would make sense that Tywin wouldn't recognize her; Bolton was her father's bannerman and a close advisor - he should have recognized her pretty damn quickly.
I don’t know if Bolton would recognise her to be honest. Second daughter of his Lord who already has four other children and who he probably hasn’t seen in at least a year or two by this point. Even then, he will have seen a young girl of aristocratic birth and heritage. At Harrenhal, he will have seen a bedraggled peasant girl.
@@cobbler9113 Even if it had been awhile, Arya in the books was described as looking the most like her father. A haircut and some dirt isn't going to make her dark hair, grey eyes, and long face any less memorable. It just seems like a big plot hole that George left in.
Not that close of an advisor, he had his own castle to rule. Arguably Rob was closer to his bannette because he actually rode into battle with them and had them sit at his war councils. Last time ned did that was 9 years ago, arya would have been a toddler.
@@jowolf2187i doubt roose was that invested in looking at or interacting with the stark children or even eddard himself. if im not mistaken eddard never like roose and thought something was off about him so i dont see how they couldve have a close enough relationship to know eachother’s children by name and look.
@@popmmog-7 children grow up, and become politically relevant, fast. in these insular noble circles everyone had an interest in knowing as much as possible about everyone else, just in case a scenario like this might arise.
I like how Tywin keeps his soldiers in check. He’s an effective and brilliant military leader. I also loved when he complimented Arya disguised as a boy smart. He takes notice for potentials. He’s one of the best players in Game of Thrones.
He keeps everyone in check. It's when he's not there that everything falls apart. Hes basically the only competent leader in the books with the exception of Khal Drogo.
@@twelvecatsinatrenchcoat Tywin is a competent leader. And the reason why he learned how to be one is because his father was a horrible leader who nearly destroyed his own family’s reputation.
I think that made it better. The constant tension every time Arya made a sly remark in his presence. I was always terrified he would figure her out lol
@@lotstodo I think so too. Tywin was a very wise individual so I'm glad he didn't get a ton of time to figure her out but the little bit we got between them was great
@@Steamboat2016he figured her out pretty early on, he knew she was part of one of the great families of westeros, he just didn't know she was a stark, otherwise he would've imprisoned her to be used as a bargaining chip.
@Mariateresa Di Mauro I mean we can't be 100% sure, but I doubt he did. No matter how much he liked her, he was ruthless when it came to securing his family's position. If he knew who Arya was, he would have no remorse using her against her brother (imo)
@@mariateresadimauro9089 I don't think he could recognize her, but I'm almost sure he knew she was from northern house and a high born girl he just didn't know she was a stark
@@mariateresadimauro9089 they never actually met as arya and Tywin to be fair so he would only have a vague discription in his mind and bc she was dressed as a boy he wouldn’t tell
I appreciate how literally everyone agrees that adding the "Twyin and Aria" relationship to the show is a good and wonderful thing. For all the shows faults (many of which I do blame on Martin for taking longer to put out books since the show began than in all the time prior combined, the show producers and creators couldn't have possibly forseen that he wouod practically REFUSE to continue writing), and for all the faults found in turning written works into filmed works, it is likely the one "that wasnt in the book" change that is universally loved by everyone in all of "film/TV adaptation" history.
The dialogue between Tywin Lannister and Arya Stark is some of the best television ever. Ever! Perfect writing, perfect casting, perfect acting. A joy to watch.
I kind of get the sense that Tywin saw Arya was a girl and thought she'd be best as a cupbearer, but somehow I also want to believe that because he saw she was smart enough to dress like a boy it made him want to keep her away from these people after exposing her as a girl, so he puts her to work in proximity to him. Not saying he's empathetic or anything, perhaps more briefly and spontaneously conscious of this person's interests that he likes.
Tywin has shown countless time that besides Jamie and Cercei, and sometimes Tyrion (mostly when Tyrion acted as his representative), he doesn't care. The most logical reason is that he saw she was smart enough to go as a boy, which means she was smart enough to be at his side and refrain from gossiping what she saw/heard
I'd take it a step further, and say that after he deduced she was a Highborn girl from the North, while Knowing Arya stark was missing, as one of the smartest characters in the series he made a subconscious choice to ignore the possibility that she was Arya stark, because he liked her, and respected what it took for her to be there surviving, and didn't wanna be obligated to recapture her
@@agentchaos9332 I’m a little unsure about that, there are more noble houses than Tywin could name and Arya Stark would have been a crucial hostage for the Lannisters after Joffrey fucked things up with Ned. “Madness and stupidity” as he put it.
He’s the sort of man that solves as many problems at once. Teaching a guard to stop being an ass also to assume nothing recognising after her reasoning that he’d left her very vulnerable once he’d outed her as a girl because she was smart he saw someone he might have a use for and so he placed her out of the reach of lecherous soldiers and somewhere he could possibly fashion her into something useful. The man has the mind of an emperor not a general. I’d pay ready money to see him cast as Emperor Gaius Sextus in a Codex Alera adaptation.
@@agentchaos9332 Oh if Tywin knew she was Arya, he'd have used her as a hostage immediately. Not saying he would be needlessly cruel to her, but he wouldn't have let such a massive tactical advantage pass him by. He acknowledged Robb's intelligence and capability after his victories in the war, then had him butchered at a wedding.
What made tywin's character so scary is that he's not some belligerent monster out to destroy the world. He truly believes in the system that he serves and uses his honed focused tyranny to commit the most heinous acts for the betterment of that system. Someone with those kinds of convictions is more horrifying than any raging homicidal lunatic.
The interaction between the two of them is so brilliantly written. While he's her mortal enemy be still becomes one of the many to tutor her, and help her grow. Would have loved to see a coming together between the two of them much later over swords, with him realizing who he had, and then realizing who she had become....
Tywin and Arya made such interesting pair, imagine if he took her on as his steward for multiple seasons and just at the very end let tyrion in to kill him. She had a good story but I found this castle scene her best
At some point Cersei would have seen her. Other people at King's Landing also know what she looks like. Having her be with Tywin for that long would get pretty silly.
@Commanderziff yeah I see how it wouldn't have worked I just kinda wanted to see them interact more. He proably would have figured it out on his own, feel like he was starting to put it together.
Tywin had her pegged the second he laid eyes on her. He didn't know she was Arya Stark of course, but he knew she was a highborn girl. She didn't kneel when everyone else did. The lowborn are conditioned to do this, whereas a highborn girl wouldn't be because there are very few circumstances where she would have to kneel, like before the King himself is basically the only one. She looked right at him instead of being afraid to make eye contact. She spoke to him as an equal. Said "my lord" instead of "m'lord". Gave a clever response to his question, and he respected her intelligence. He straight up made her his cupbearer to save her. He only confronted her about knowing she was highborn later, but he knew immediately because she was not blending in very well, at least not to someone who is intelligent.
Made so much sense for someone like tywin to like arya, if she was his kid he would of stamped out that little "doing what you enjoy" thing but as a person to meet she's effectively his dream person. Smart , efficient and covered in plot armor so his plans always look good
Tywin and Arya were my favorite. He was almost proud of her cleverness, even when he knew she was lying. And she kept poking at him, the last man you want to mess with as a Stark. Their scenes made those episodes.
Tywin was a prime Machiavellian. He knew when to be cruel but he also knew not to waste people away that can be resourceful. That’s why he told the idiots to stop torturing prisoners and instead get them to work manning the castle
The rewatching scenes with Arya and Tywin make me want to see Maisie Willaims and Charles Dance work on a project together again. They played off each other really well, and who knows seeing Charles play Maisie's character's mentor or grandfather or something could be neat.
I love the irony that Tywin is normally the smartest person in the room and regularly points out his subordinates’ incompetence, but he’d probably have egg all over his face if someone pointed out that his cupbearer this whole time was literally Arya Stark of Winterfell 😅 a rare blunder by Tywin
He loved them all. Sometimes love makes cruelty and loathing even stronger. He could've been rid of Tyrion decades ago if he really didn't see him as a son.
And he took full avantage of that! lol He dated Sophia Myles in her prime and they had quite a large difference in age. Although I don't remember which show or movie they met on.
Apparently they never met in the books so all their interactions were a show only thing and I think it worked out real well. I liked the dynamic and it showed the stern but fatherly side of tywin and helped humanize him. Their whole exchange made him my favorite Lanister
