It would actually make less sense if you DON'T go back in time again, because the entire reason Elidibus had the idea to send us back in the msq is because he REMEMBERED that he saw us there. "Wait... I saw you there. In Elpis. No... I did not... but I did. I did. A lingering trace of impossibility..." and we never saw him when we went back the first time, so this had to happen.
Add onto that the raids are optional content, that also adds onto the phrasing -- he both does and doesn't meet the WoL in Elpis, varying from each player's experience in starting the series or not.
@@wtfomghem The raids may be optional but they're all canonical, with the exception of the Nier alliance raids. Whether you do them or not has literally no effect on the MSQ.
@@TheLogan1156 The Omega raid series is extremely important imo as it fleshes out the dragons' backstory and establishes that yes, there is stuff happening in outer space (as well as why Midgardsormr doesn't say anything in Endwalker). It was great to see the pay off in Ultima Thule.
On elidibus voice take i just think it's a different elidibus, because there is many things that "our time" elidibus does that i can't see themis do, deep voice maybe, but i don't see him do an evil smirk like he did in arr or hw i don't remember exactly he seems way to wholesome. But hey i could be wrong
When Elidibus sends us back in time he says he can open a gateway and that it would consume every last mote of his essence, he never says that the gateway will close or that there is a time limit so seeing as no one has deactivated the gateway at the crystal tower my assumption is that is why you are still able to travel back.
Kind of what my thoughts were too. That or attuning to aetherytes transcends not only space but time as well. Maybe the act of attunement gives the aetheryte a part of you that ages with and links you with the aetheryte at a specific point that progresses free from the passage of time. I'll give Square this, they normally have very good lore explanations for things so I'm curious what their reason is.
Yeah. And when Venat/Hydaelin talks about a "conjunction" forming between our times, I think she's talking about how time is passing at a similar rate in both eras, like how it happens between The First and The Source in Shb. Which is why we go back and she, emet and hyth aren't there anymore - they're already back at Amaurot, at this point.
The time travel thing is very clean. it takes a what happens, already happened approach. you did not go back in time and change things. You went back in time because you had always gone back in time. Its very bootstrap paradox but it works out. Everything that happens in Elpis had always happened in Elpis. There are not multiple timelines, only one in which you were always present for those events in Elpis.
I think that one of the reasons they don't record VA for the raids- and have said this for other cutscenes as well- is that it gives them the freedom to edit them up to the last minute. With VA you'd have to lock down those lines way earlier.
@@PintVods Yeah I swear this was in an interview somewhere, I think maybe about 5.3 or Endwalker delay or something? If I come across it again, I'll link it.
That is very valid, but I would still appreciate if they had some lines that the bosses could shout during combat, and those could be easily more generic so that they don't have to be rewritten. Fights like e8, e11 and DSR stand out because they have boss lines. the alliance raids have battle voice lines now, even if it's just the main cast, and they are greatly elevated by it
Yep, she posited that whatever you do in the past can't affect your present because it's already happened. Whatever you do is canonical, no matter how many Fates you complete :)
I'm glad we get to see Elidibus again in this raid. 5.3 is still one of this game's best patches so I'm glad we get to spend more time with him except now he's working with us instead of against us. Really hope Pint sticks with this one. He definitely has a point in saying that the First Wing usually starts slow and requires a lot reading of the lore dump to get invested. It definitely gets better once we get to Abyssos. Also, I love the possibility of this raid has a small chance of being connected with the Alliance Raid series (really hoping that it does) considering the Title used by the P4 boss. I guess we just have to wait and see.
When Meteion escapes to the stars, she has yet to join the flock (which was apparently so far away we had to consume most of the mother crystal to reach). It must have taken Meteion awhile to get there and there was no mention of a "nest" at that point. The doomsday was triggered when Meteion read us her report so it makes sense that no souls had been captured by the flock yet in Ultima Thule. Thus it probably took some time and possibly years before the song of oblivion was started and traveled as far as the source. Plenty of time presumably would have been had for Hemes to join the convocation and many other events to transpire before the final days.
Pretty much this. The meteii had only recently formulated their consenus and plan at that point, so they had to hoard all that dynamis and all those souls first.
So Hydaelyn mentions a conjunction has formed from Present Day to Past Day Elpis; Also it might of been missed but before Elidibus sends you to the past he notes he knows you from fragmented memory. While Elidibus sent us to the past the first time; the Crystals that Claudien hands off to us are the trigger that allows us to return this time. So the Endwalker writer always intended us to return to Elpis. Elidibus prior to sending you to the past: "Your unsolicited act has restored to me some few memories of the Convocation. Such knowledge as I have, I will share." "Wait...I saw you there in Elpis. No...I did not...but I did. I did. A lingering trace of impossibility... and a truth...that fills my heart..." "My memories remain clouded, I fear. However...they have revealed to me one possible course." Venat (Hydaelyn) before sending us off as we return to the present: "You may find your world to be very different. Or perhaps the erasure of our friends' memories has sown the seeds of a conjunction between us. We cannot know until the moment is at hand. So shall I strive to do my best taking naught for granted as I walk my path." Hydaelyn to us the WoL and WoL to Hydaelyn: "Brave Travelers I welcome you." "We meet again, Venat." "I see...Thou didst journey unto Elpis. And now the rivers of time converge." Much like Hydaelyn knew who we were way prior to us knowing who she was (Venat) these events are forming the timey whimey loop of preordained moments in Elpis.
There's baby-faced ppl out there with deep voices, I dunno why everyone finds Themis's so weird tbh. I really like this raid series, it retroactively made Seat of Sacrifice even sadder! :,) They built narrative to keep access to Elpis veeeery limited. The portal is in the Crystal Tower of The First, meaning the only people that have access to it are you and the characters in that world, for the moment. And only you have a full body to interact with stuff in there, everyone else is just a little ghost. And yeah, sure, you could theoretically walk around, talk to the Ancients, maybe even go to other places besides Elpis, *but!* Everyone there thinks you're a familiar. Without people like Venat and Hades chaperoning you, your actual access to stuff would be super limited. You can't even leave Elpis without someone to use the neus for you. It's amazing that any of it is possible, but the practical application in the worldbuilding is basically what we see here - people asking you to go back there and do something for them. Just one guy (a very busy guy, too!)
"Isn't that a bit OP, like we can just go to the past?" We travelled to the edge of the universe and defeated a cosmic entity of universe-destroying power
Pint seems to only half pay attention to lore in cutscenes, and spins wild theories off fundamental misunderstandings of the dialogue (often based on one single word that happens to jump out).
I dont think I really agree with the idea that there are a lot of plot holes. We never convinced Venat to become hydolyn, all she knew was that it would be coming eventually. Being able to go back to elpis feeling like it needs some more explaining why we can do so, Elidibus did state when he sent us there that he remembered the first time that you had met was in elpis originally, and we never met him until the raid series. This is specualtion on my part, but we do know that the shattering caused time to work differently between the shards, which could explain why time travel is easier than you may think, as aetherytes are able to transfer you through the life stream to somewhere you have been before, which is why you are able to go back and forth between the first. So this could be applied to elpis perhaps because of the shattering essentially making it so that the world unsundered is a unique place separate from the shattered would, and perhaps even the the world unsundered no longer has a true place in time once it is shattered, basically making it like a pocket dimension rather than being truelly the past as we know it.
"Why can't we just go back and go to Amaurot?" In Vanilla WoW, why can't we go to Northrend? In ARR, why can't we go to Kugane, Radz-at-Han or other places we know exist like the New World? We suspend our disbelief for the sake of practicality and to enjoy the content that has been prepared for us.
I think the logic of the link to elpis is the same as the link between the source and the first, once the crystal tower establishes a link, the link is stable and persistent for those capable of traversing the rift (same reason unukalhai was able to go the first from the source despite not being summoned by g'raha). When we hold up the memory crystal, perhaps it fine tunes to the correct instance in time from the memory, but I don't think it is establishing a new link. But maybe I've missed some lore about this.
There's a spoilerish theory as to *why* it's sending us to the same "Elpis Time" Elidibus originally sent us. . . . . . Basically, Elidibus **barely** remembers the WoL from the Panadaraids, due to his refusal to refresh his memories, he retains **just** enough to know *when* to send us to help him in the past. The WoL will probably have to Bootstrap the creation of the blue crystal once the raid is finished.
When Endwalker came out I was doing a few things and realized that since I had only done Eden 1-4, Urianger and Thancred were technically both back on the Source AND still in the First. I did the next four raids on like day 3 of Endwalker, just to correct that continuity error. Elpis is going to be a can of worms for the rest of FFXIV...
I'm pretty sure the Exarch mentions that time flows at differing and variable rates between the reflections. Perhaps this is just a convenient bit of desync and slippage.
@@NTmatter I think there was supposed to be something to this 'conjunction' that Hydaelyn keeps talking about. But I also think those lines were added in during the delay because the volume mixing on them was TERRIBLE at launch they were WAY too loud.
Okay so I've only done the first wing so someone help me out here: Is that very first cutscene a massive continuity error or am I losing my mind? Dude says he was the one who learned of the Final Days from Hydaelin but Graha definitely made it sound like that was hundreds of years ago. And we're the first to traverse the Aetherial Sea and live? I figured we just had a difficult time because of the amount of enemies we've made. The beast tribes go in right after us don't they?
About Themis' age range: it's clearer in japanese that he's at least a young adult, as they use "seinen". The equivalent for boy would rather be "shounen", but seinen implies he's at least the equivalent of someone in their early 20s. Note that it's only english that uses this younger equivalent, as all the other languages use something similar to "young man". For a much clearer comparison, when you see emet-selch and hythlodaeus in elpis for the first time, they're also referred to as "seinen" before being named again, so Themis wouldn't be that much younger than them by our terms. Someone like Alphinaud however (who is now 16/17), is still called "shounen". He IS small though 😂 and yet hilariously, when you bring his model down to modern humanity's scale, even he's taller than G'raha Tia.
you travel back to the future after you leave elpis, you start seeing the events that happened after your leave, probably months or years later, you saw how Hermes became Fandaniel, you cant str8 go to the doomsday after that in 1 minute lol.
Bit disappointed to see them not doing it on min ilvl. Yeah Pint didn't fail a single mechanic on P2, but they also didn't SEE all the mechanics as they double up and the chaos gets more and more intense. It would have been much more fun to see them all panic and have to deal with the healing challenges there. ❤
Its not a plot whole when you traveled to the 1 you where summoned, and the same base magic was used to send you to the past. So because you know have a permanent connection to the first why would it not be the same for the past because both of the magic makes a permanent connection between you and where you are sent.
