Threading a Barrel -Thread Protector Installation! Gunsmithing Remington 

+T Hall Thanks for your concern!

+T Hall Don't think rubber gloves are going to "pull you in". If you are so concerned, why not make a video on the absolute safest way to do this, then we can critique your methods sir.

+jason fazenbaker I am concerned that perhaps you are of the ilk that has to put your hand in the fire to see if it really will burn you. Stay as far from danger as possible and you greatly increase you chances of remaining whole for life. It only has to go wrong once.

T Hall I'm pretty sure a LaTeX glove won't pull your fingers off :)

Sure it won't, but it will jerk your hand VERY quickly into a fast moving part wedged against a sharp tool........I know I know, you are stronger than a latex glove, but when one is not expecting it your hand will move too fast in the wrong direction.

Sounds good. Thanks for the comments. I may do a better quality remake of this one in the future.

+Mike Dittman No problem, thanks for the comments! There are a few other ways I do these depending on the application, but this is just a basic demonstration.

Look at Joe Pieczinski (Advanced Innovations, Austin Texas)videos and especially his method of cutting threads AWAY from the headstock with the lathe tool upside down and the lathe in reverse. That's how to do it properly. The man is a brilliant engineer/toolmaker and designer. its a joy to watch his videos and to learn new things AND how to do it safely.

@@samrodian919 MD said it all, they learned to do this from a gunsmith. A machinist don't call himself a gunsmith for a damn good reason, he ain't. Every gunsmith I've ever met said they were machinists too.

Joe MacPherson didn't look like the cutter was square to the work either. You will definitely have a wonky thread if your 30 deg cutter is 5 degs off in the tool holder...

+Aaron M Sounds good! It's been a while since I've had a Sierra Nevada!

I am in the middle of getting my "new" shop put together and once that happens I'll start making more videos.

+Theren Boster hey, that is on my list of tools to get is a nice cut off tool. I do target barrels a little bit differently, but the cap is a little different too. Thanks for watching and commenting!

No problem, Thanks!

Yeah but jo pi does it so idk bout alp that.

Me too! I did this video several years ago on the fly with a junk barrel after just getting my first worn out lathe set up. Had a few issues but #1 was a poor (or dull) cutting tool. Before this I always did this work in other gunsmith shops with much nicer lathes and tooling. I've since upgraded all my equipment and always cut nice sharp threads and much smaller back cuts (if needed). Never thought this video would get that much attention, but it did. I should really make an updated video.

the site name really need to be rethought on the precision part

Not fun

Thanks

+Randal Surdyk Are you referring to the pin I used in the bore? I'm not sure exactly what it is without measuring, but usually I fit each one to each bore if I don't already have one that fits. When I make one they are usually within a few 10 thousands end to end, which in most cases better than the play you get from a range rod with a bushing.

It's sickening and happens everywhere on RU-vid

Kinda reminds me of a quote by Will Rogers" There are three kinds of men, one that learns by reading, ones that learn by observation, and others who must pee on the electric fence for themselves" If you have been advised several time by tradesmen with many years of experience, what could you know about safety that they don't? Why not take their advice to live a long and healthy life?

thanks. New and improved video turned out much better though.

Yeah, Tools were dull.

+J Rob Thanks!

That must be an ironic piss taking comment, coz surely you ain't serious

That's a lengthy answer. There are several good videos on youtube that talk about what to look for when purchasing a lathe. In general 10-14" lathes work good for gunsmithing as long as they are heavy and not an atlas/craftsman. US made machines are good, but usually have some wear. Short headstocks help when going through headstock, or a steady rest. Craigslist is usually your best bet. Do a bunch of research and when buying one if you know someone that knows a thing or two about them, that helps. It all comes down to a bunch of research or experience. A smaller machine at first would work too if you wanted to upgrade later and learn the basics, or take a machining class.

+Dennis Varnau The more a guy thinks about it the more he second guesses everything! LOL.... The problem with relying on the lathes accuracy is that unless you have a brand new machine, or a newly rebuilt one (as I do) and you spend hours lining everything up, you can't rely on the lathe to be where you want it every time. That is the whole reason for indicating a barrel. If A lathe has been around for a while they usually need to have their tail stock aligned ether by a radial gauge, or a test bar which is usually 18-24" long. The problem with that to me is that it might line up next to the head stock with a radial micrometer, or at 18-24" with a test bar, but will it line up at 26+ inches if you are doing a longer barrel? How about a 12" barrel? I know my lathe would because everything has just been ground, but a 30-40 year old lathe that's been in use? Who knows? On top of that if you run between centers without first cutting a new bearing surface you are asking for run-out! Running on factory cut centers is not a reliable method. I know you can cut the face of ether end of the barrel, then run your centers on that, but some guys will argue that with the tiny amount of bearing surface in this case, you run the risk of having one side of the lands softer/harder than the other and when you tighten your barrel down, it will deviate to one side. When you cut centers with a piloted reamer, you will get much more (relatively not that much) error vs the tight rod, due to the clearance the bushing needs on the pilot. My rods only move on one axis, the X axis in and out of the bore. There is just enough clearance to get the rod in the bore and no more. Here were are talking about a few ten thousands. 0.0002-0.0004". Now the trick then becomes how close can I zero that out in my lathe with my indicators. When I was installing a lot of muzzle breaks for another gunsmith, most of the time, I would leave the action on, and run the barrel through the headstock and indicate the last 3-4"" of the barrel. You indicate close to the muzzle, then out on the end of the rod, which was usually about 3" out past the muzzle. I figure at that point, if I could zero everything out here, There would be a 6" straight path for the bullet to travel and would exit the muzzle at a concentric point to the bore of the muzzle. Most times the barrel ended up pretty straight in the lathe, but I also did a lot of Remington factory barrels, and they are horrible for being both "bent" and having horrible OD concentricity. The same gunsmith also would have me cut piloted centers, and turn the shank of the barrel so it has a concentric OD relative to the new center. He would then call these barrels "blue printed", which I guess technically is true, but using pins will get you closer to zero run-out. Don't get me wrong, these were all great shooting rifles, but like I mentioned before, my most accurate rifle, which has shot in the 0.2" range 5 shot group at 100 yards on several occasions, and consistently shoots in the 0.4-0.6 MOA range, is a 7mm Mag with a palma contour barrel which was done by chucking up in the three jaw, and out on the steady as I mentioned before! It's a hunting rifle too! Anyways, personally I would be a little scared to thread for a silencer by running between centers. Not because I would be afraid that the bullet would hit it, but I would want to make sure everything was dead concentric if I'm shelling out the cash for a silencer. It sticks out past the muzzle quite a bit further than a muzzle break which are usually no more the 2-3" out. There are better ways to do it in my opinion.

+Precision Machine Shed Thanks again. I'm going to have my brother read over these paragraphs first, before I give him my barrels to machine. He's been doing machining since high school (then Cincinnati Milling Machine [Milacron], Cincinnati), now 61. He has several patents dealing with workholding fixturing (PROHOLD Workholding). Problem was, he's more of an inventor than business man, and his shop was more of a hobby than business really. But when it comes to working up the best way to hold something to machine, I'd put him up against anyone in the business anywhere in the world. His three jaw chucks and hydraulic vises, used in tombstones, are the most versatile and operator friendly for production machining. The IRS put him out of business and now others are making his original products. Not only were they good for manual loading, but could also be completely automated into horizontal machining cells (one I remember most was for machining the finger holes in bowling balls). Anyway, I'm sure he will be able to thread my barrels well enough for use with these new Sig Sauer cans. Master machinists are a disappearing breed of skilled craftsmen, for sure, in the US of A. We knew Ross Perot was telling us the truth back in the 1990's while we watched manufacturing in Rochester, NY (where we did a lot of workholding business) literally dry up almost completely, and head for Mexico. "I love it" when Ohio Gov. John Kasich says he's bringing back jobs after he as a U.S. Congressman at the time voted for GATT and NAFTA. Typical politician - works both sides of the problem to benefit himself only.

if you want it done properly don't get this guy to do it! lol

This is an old video. There's an updated version of this video a few years back that is much better. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-S_dMUM-uUTo.html

This is an old video. There's an updated version of this video a few years back that is much better. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-S_dMUM-uUTo.html

Thanks

+RGRundeRGRound That lathe was 1 3/8". I could do just about everything I wanted to with it. Thanks for watching!

i have a set of threading kit, it includes 5/8--24 threading die, threading alignment tool and handle, i purchased it at more than $50 and sell it at 30 dollars. it works very well, i only have used once. email me at jbptla@gmail.com

+Dennis Varnau Well, first, most guys that builds high end benchrest and target rifle are currently cutting barrels similar to how I do it with there being several different variations. I am basically doing the same thing as running between centers, except I'm indicating off the lands on both ends of the barrel with a tight fitting rod and it leaves almost no room for error. When you run between centers, to do it right, you must first cut 60 degree relief cuts in each end. You can do this a few different ways. You can indicate each end as I did, then cut with your compound and cutter of choice. Second, you can chuck it up in a steady rest and then cut each end, third, you can buy a piloted 60 degree cutter, which I have also, and cut your centers there. Only problem with the last two is that in a steady, you are running off the OD, which can be bad even with a floating reamer holder, and using the tight fitting piloted reamer, you still have to have some clearance for that pilot to work correctly. Would the average guy notice this? No, but when you are shooting at 600-1,000 yards, every little bit helps. There is also the problem on many barrels are not straight! when you run between centers, and you cut your threads, that bullet could be coming out at a slight angle and your brake or whatever you have on there will be off. Again, most guys won't notice. Gordy Gritters a highly respected gunsmith and builder of some extremely accurate rifles only indicates his barrels with the first 4-8" of whatever side he is cutting. He mentioned that sometimes when he indicates his barrels on the chamber end, you can see noticeable run-out on the opposite end and these rifles are match winners! There are several different ways to go about indicating a barrel, and many of them work well. The guy I learned from was an accomplished BR shooter and traveled the US and Canada in the 60's, 70's and 80's winning a lot of matches. He chambered all of his barrels by chucking one end of the barrel in a 3 jaw chuck, then running out to a steady rest on the OD, threading, then reaming with the reamer held tight in a Jacobs chuck in the tail stock. I actually have a couple of these rifles and I built a few this way and they are all 1/2 MOA or better rifles out past 600 yards! He also had several targets that were 5 shots though one bullet diameter hole witnessed by several friends on his private range! Tell me how that works! I'm going to be doing a barrel in the next month hopefully if my reamer arrives from PTG, but I have yet to decide which way I will do it. I'm confident to do it any way I want, but just figuring out which one is the problem. Just saying there's several ways to do it and depending on who you talk to, I do what I do based on other peoples experience, a lot of research, and what I feel works best.

And still got runoutYour only measuring at one point, in effect can often swing eccentric towards breach and have same effect as cutting on the piss.

I saw the same thing. A fabricator polishing a shaft with gloves on. At least he had something to carry the fingers in when he went to the ER that day. Sick!

Thanks, I've got more gunsmithing videos coming up soon. I've got two barrels to install.

@@precisionmachineshed are you still doing this do you do work for anyone or just friends I'm located in Indiana where you located I have a Remington 700 I need some lathe work done on

It was the only parting tool I had at the time. I've since changed quite a few things and get much much better results.

yes dont use your hand and dont use any kind of gloves. even latex will pull you in. nice video.

Without purchasing a new barrel, no. You can screw on anything you want, but A) a true barrel extension would be very hard to accomplish, and B) unsafe. If your barrel is to short for your comp, then you will most likely need an aftermarket barrel. Based off your info, that's my opinion.

ABSOLUTELY!

+ericbc7 To a point, yes it will affect it the less threads you have the weaker it will be. You want as small of a relief cut as possible and as many threads as possible.

+Jason Keim about .020-0.030" per pass. When you know you need to take 0.150" off, you can take a few HEAVY cuts, remeasure, then decrease your cut depth the closer you get. On your final couple passes you should be taking 0.002-0.003" per pass to get to your final dimensions. Let me know if you have any other questions. Thanks for watching and commenting.

Great, thanks again for the info!!

Most prices I've seen are $75-$100 to thread plus any extra parts. Prices may vary depending on where you are. Most suppressors use a standard 0.600" long thread. The one in this video would work, but it's a little short.

Yeah, they are nice. No chamfer, but if you wanted to do a really nice one you would recess the threads and match a cap so it is all seamless and invisible.

Which god Bob? I don't think Thor gives a rats ass about your barrel =_)

+sea man In this case, I left the original crown. Another way to do it is to cut a concentric relief cut on the outside edge of the crown. I haven't seen an accuracy diffence so ether way works.

This is an old video, thanks

First time with my own old worn out lathe and minimal tooling. Other than the threads being very rough from a dull cutter the rest turned out as intended. Prior to this video I worked with newer lathes and carbide, switching over to hss was a little learning curve along with hand grinding cutters. You must not have watched the updated video of mine on the same exact topic.

Ah, yes...... how things have changed.

Hey, I would throw a 5/8"x24 brake on there. Should be plenty of barrel after threading.

You can email me at precisionmachineshed@gmail.com or check out my facebook page and message me. Thanks

You must not have seen the new video.

Wow just terrible. “And to finish off the project, I order the customer a new barrel”

I agree! Just the gloves alone make me cringe.

@appleantennasystems instead of issuing a blanket statement of criticism, how about you help educate us on each problem? This type of machining doesn't require much precision.

@@martycat437 Maybe in his day job he's a hand model, and he's protecting his money maker.

It was my barrel. Other than too long of an undercut and some tear on the threads, it worked fine and the thread was still in spec. There are tolerances for barrel diameter that need to be followed when making those undercuts. This was the first one I did in about 3 years after I had purchased a cheap lathe, and not the best tooling. I upgraded my equipment and made the second video. I've again upgraded my tooling since that second video. Top notch stuff now.

Possible, maybe but your barrel might not have enough meat to put a thread on.

I can't remember what I used here. I now use a Copper #4 gauge wire. The rod used is a PTG indicating rod. I think I used a home made rod in this video though. There are also several other ways to indicate including using a long stem test indicator, and Grizzly Rods.

Why would you want to try open up the bolt face for a 98 Mauser what are your Wylie Coyote

Thanks, I've thought about that, but I just got rid of the lathe, got a better one, and learned to sharpen HSS. Life is good now. The new video I did on this subject shows the results. thanks!

Chrisjan0 Hey thanks. As far as the gloves, they are tight fitting nitrile gloves that would tear away if they ever got caught, so I'm not worried about it.

well, if I did it, it would look much better than tthe one in the video. Usually around $100. Takes time to set it up and indicate everything before actually cutting it.

@@precisionmachineshed thanks for the reply. Good to know. I wish you were in Phoenix, Arizona!

There are a few ways to go about learning. The easiest would be to find a local gunsmith that would be willing to teach you. You might have to work for little to nothing at first. Another option is to take a local machining course at a technical school to learn how to run those machines. Finally you could enroll in a gunsmithing program. I'm sure there are a few around but a couple of the more popular ones are Trinidad Tech in Colorado, and Pine City CC in Minnesota. I was fortunate enough to have a few guys teach me and I read and practiced a lot. Most of gunsmithing is doing repairs. If you want to become a builder, that's another game. I'm into building and don't really do repairs anymore. I also am not currently doing work for other people.

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain that. Can you make a good living doing repairs and custom jobs? I looked at a few schools around me..it seems the better ones are several months long. And I will contact all the local gunsmiths to see if they can take me on...maybe even have a place to setup my machines. Im willing to work for free a couple days a week for a few months to get started so I'll shop that idea around. I meant to ask.. I have an Acer dynamic 1740g 17" engine lathe will that do gun work? Again, thank you very much.

That's a large lathe. It will definitely do barrel work, but you may run into a few hurdles with the length or your head stock if you want to go through the head stock. You can always work around that though. As far as making a living, everyone I know started doing it as a hobby and eventually went full time into it and made a decent living.

Yep, keeps it from getting dirty when it falls on the floor.

I think the rubber glovers are fine man he looks strong enough that the glove would probably give way before his fingers fell of haha

apexcustomrifles@gmail.com

no, everything was measured.

the use of protective gloves while working metals is always correct and mandatory ... but there are people who like to put their hand in the Chuck while is turning, that is the problem ...

Yes, that's correct.

Thanks man.

Yeah, was a couple things, but mainly a dull cutting tool, and deep cuts instead of taking more lighter cuts. Having a really sharp cutter, correct height, and a solid setup helps. This was a bad thread, but the video got popular quick, so I just let it fly. Your first couple cuts can be 5 thou on the compound, then usually drop down to 3 thou until you get close, then 1-2 thou per cut when you are getting close.

I’m not a machinist so forgive the lack of vocabulary please. I think the thread cutting tool should be advanced at an angle (maybe 60 degrees?) . This keeps the chatter down because you’re not balanced between the left and right thread faces equally. I think there’s a good book called something like “the machinists handbook” If that’s too thick for you try YouTubing “this old tony” for some seriously entertaining machining.

+jason fazenbaker Thanks, I appreciate it!

If someone is charging that much I would recommend looking elsewhere for the service. Removing a barrel and putting it back on in 98% of the cases is a pretty quick and easy job with the correct tools which if they are a good gunsmith they should have. I think we used to knock barrels off and on for $20 a few years ago. If they needed to be headspaced (like a Savage) maybe $40 to do that. That doesn't take long ether. If they were old military actions (Enfields, 1903's, or Mosins) there is a potential for an extra charge because they are a higher risk of pulling a barrel and usually require more effort than say a modern 700 Rem. Then again, sometimes they just screw off without a hitch! There is really no need to pull the receiver off the barrel to do this. You can, but it can also be done with the action on. I've done a lot of Muzzle brakes with the receiver still on the barrel. You just need to indicate the muzzle end properly which should be done regardless of what's hanging off the other end. Many barrels other than the Savage type lock nut barrels can be marked with a witness mark to indicate the barrel on the receiver. When it is put back on, then eliminating the need to headspace it again. This job minus the muzzle brake work if needed, was like an $80-$100 job when I was doing it. Installing a muzzle brake was usually around $200-$250 with a brake.

Thank you for your time in explaining that.

Oxpho-Blue www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/metal-bluing/paste-cold-bluing-chemicals/counter-displays-prod41612.aspx

Dear god they looked like they were cut with a garden rake. Oh I would have been fired 48 years ago when I started training in tooling, for turning in work like that. 30degree thread form tool, compound set at 30degrees(some guys swear by 29degrees), clearanced across the cutting edge 10 degrees on the front edge and about 15degrees across the top. The trailing edge(back edge) should not cut but I have been known to do a wipe at near 0 by moving the saddle (not the compound) about .0002"-.0005" with a well lubed up tool. This has been beneficial on some ornery stainless steel that just resisted finishing nicely. Honestly I have used the same tool for decades so precision of those angle numbers isn't that critical, other than the thread form itself. Tool height EXACTLY on center, Above will rub and tear, below will scrape rather than cut. Good cutting oil or specialty fluid helps. Nice easy slow speed, based on the material you are cutting. Cratex (rubber impregnated with abrasive) type abrasive to polish and remove the wire edge points on the threads. There are many other thread forms used in the world. I am speaking about standard UNC/UNF threading. ACME is quite a bit different as is British Associated, and forget Whitworth which is close to UNC/UNF but not exactly. Proper use of thread wires or if you've got the bucks, a thread measuring micrometer is needed to do threads correctly to size. Just fitting to someone else's work might get this one job done, but might not fit someone else's work you might want to use at a later time. This was for those who said they wanted some constructive advice and not just critiquing the OP's work. And the gloves are a recipe for disaster on any machining process or machine tool. But that's a talk for another time as it involves a lot of detailed discussion. And thanks for the video anyway.

This is an old video. There's an updated version of this video a few years back that is much better. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-S_dMUM-uUTo.html

+James 51 This is just a quick example to show the general process on a junk barrel. Thread protectors are cheap and if you want one sticking out 1/4" past your crown that's fine, that's not the way they are suppose to be. Only purpose of a thread protector is to protect the threads when your brake or a suppressor isn't on there. The depth is set by the brake not the protector. With the amount of threads, I didn't have the correct cutter to make a smaller cut at the time, that being said, one or one and a half more threads on a brake is not going to make a difference as far as strength, and this one was a demo anyways. I do admit the threads were not perfect, but for this demo they were OK. I would never send anything out like this to a paying customer! I've won enough matches with my own rifles to know I'm a much better builder than 95% of the people out there, and although you point out some obvious flaws, it's not correct to make a general assumption off a quick 20 minute demo which only includes 1/2 of the actual time and effort and measuring involved. I've also replaced just about every machine in my shop since I made this and my machines are much tighter than this old POS I was using here. Guess I'll have to make an updated video and do everything as I normally do! Here's a quick video on a brake I did a few years ago when I was still working in a very busy shop building a lot of high end hunting and target rifles for a lot of high end picky customers which expected nothing but the best! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-NO9nHPSMDZs.html

I guess you cant thread to a shoulder with out a relief grove to stop you threading tool in yes hack job for sure.

Too fucking right James!

I didn't want the crown recessed into a threaded protector, which would then cause the inside of the thread protector to become part of the muzzle. Not good for accuracy.

Pin and weld, or cut if off and crown it.

Red loctite?