My wife, who never heard of Fire Emblem before this game, played Blue Lions completely blind. She loved it so much. My favorite reaction from her was when she saw Dimitri for the first time post time skip.
Minor spoilers for plot arcs on the 4 routes: Only 2 maps are truly never reused. Here’s a breakdown of how many times each map is reused: - Part 1 is part 1 so every map is the exact same with different personnel. The only difference is Edelgard’s Chapter 12, which starts from the opposite side on the same map. - Reunion at Dawn is used 3 times (this is the coolest and hardest chapter though) - Defending the monastery is used 4 times - Ailell is used 3 times - The Great Bridge is used 4 times, but on Edelgard’s route you start from the other end - Gronder in Part 2 (the second coolest map) is only used 2 times, but to be fair it is technically the same map as Chapter 7 - Fhirdiad is used twice, but Edelgard and Dimitri’s versions are completely different from one another - Deirdriu is used only twice somehow, and the scenarios are fairly different - Merceus is used three times, but Dimitri doesn’t have to chase down a death knight who refuses to let you play the chapter - Enbarr is used 3 times but Dimitri doesn’t get to start at the bottom right like those other cheating routes :/ - The Imperial Castle map is used 3 times, but on Dimitri’s route you start a room further back and there are more things wanting to nuke you into oblivion from range - Shambhala is used twice - BE Church endgame is technically just the same map as Chapter 12 but the scenario is wildly different - Arianrhod is also a paralogue on Dimitri’s route A bunch of paralogues recycle the same maps, but most don’t overlap with story chapters (a few do, though) And now for the only two maps that never get reused, ever: - GD Endgame - Tailtean Plains
Tailtean Plains is actually reused for grinding battles, though it seems to be rare. In my Blue Lions playthrough, I went to go kill some monsters, and the map that was used was the Tailtean Plains that you fight on in Crimson Flower. So really, only Claude's endgame map is the one that never gets reused.
I don't agree that Dimitri is necessarily completely "fixed" by a single event. You can still see the remnants of his illness and he explicitly mentions still hearing the voices. Rodrigue's death gives him a push, but overall his recovery is a slow road.
Doesn't Dimitri lose his eye when he nearly gets executed and has to fight to get out after his uncle's death is framed on him? That doesn't happen on CF, so no eyepatch there. Same reason Dedue has scars I think.
It's implied that he lost it then, especially with him not having experienced that in the Crimson flower path and having both eyes, but because it is never stated directly people get confused. Not helped at all by some guy making a headcanon up about how Dimitri himself gouged out his eye in a psychotic episode of trying to stop the voices (why would he not cut off an ear to stop the voices?), so now everyone online is confused.
That's exactly what happened. It only doesn't happen on crimson flower because dimitri was never prisoned in that route. He took in Rhea and the church of serios instead.
Dimitri is not about fixing a bad boy, he's a broken friend that you're trying to help. You see him as a good and nice person who breaks after suffering a bunch of trauma and your trying to help him.
Yeah completely agree, and he is someone that i suffering from mental health issues. He doesn't magically get better after Rodrigue's death, in his S support with Byleth he clearly states the voices are never going to go away, but he won't let them dictate his life. And I think Byleth is the most necessary to Dimitri even as a story beat, cause Byleth who is told that is emotionless, is surrounded by these very emotional individuals and growing with them along the way, and especially Dimitri.
People tend to forget that the only reason why Dimitri is so focused on vengeance in the first place is because of his father's last words to him, and he chooses the Flame Emperor because he wants a scapegoat. Which is a shame, because that's a really interesting part in his motivations and relationship with Edelgard.
Also, everyone who says Dimitri's redemption was too sudden has to remember that Byleth is definitely the catalyst for said redemption. Does Dimitri immediately start redeeming himself when Byleth shows up? No, but his behavior does change: he becomes more focused and tries to accomplish a specific goal rather than wandering aimlessly. We late see additional changes in his behavior when Dedue returns (we finally see him talking with someone in the monestary instead of shutting everyone out like he has been). Finally he's motivated to start helping people again when he sees the consequences of his actions as a cold hearted killer. At that point it makes sense to try and reconcile with his friends because that's part of being a better person. What he doesn't realize, and why he's so surprised that everything starts going well for him afterward, is that everyone remained his friends after everything he did and all they wanted was for their friend to start acting like the person that earned their friendship all that time ago
@@thepotato513 While I'm normally fairly critical of Fire Emblem writing, and would argue that the arc isn't perfect (at the very least I feel like students other than Felix should be a little more weirded out by Dimitri's change), I think this is a very good discussion on Dimitri's character arc, and does some justice to the writing.
@The Potato agreed. I never felt his change was too rushed because I can see that he's slowly recovered from 5-year-long isolation and madness as each month went by. He went from just "......" to being able to have a normal conversation. Then after Dedue's return, he even showed some hesitations and doubts about his behavior. The reunion with Byleth, Dedue, and the fact that all his friends stayed to support him really helped. I also think that Rodrigue's dying words about "we didn't die for you and we didn't want revenge, we die for what we believe in" were the final push we needed to snap Dimitri out of his delusion, because Dimitri could finally move on from father's final words in that Duscur scene about revenging the dead...so yeah I never had issues with that scene.
The thing about Dimitri's character arc is that he's a broken man when you saw post timeskip and even after Rodrigue's death he's not completely himself. Mangs overall goes above and beyond to state inaccurate stuff but his speech is nothing about honor or justice but about him finally letting go of his burden to avenge the dead. He has never completely turned around to being back to what he was before and even after the war he still suffers from the things he's done and all the lives he's taken and that he still hears voices of the dead which he will be haunted with till his death. The fact that he still has to live with his guilt and still struggles with it all is what makes him so endearing to people because he's working through his troubles the entire time in Blue Lions and even though he lets go of his anger it still returns from time to time as his voice changes between scenes and his words become ruthless whenever he faced Cornelia or Edelgard.
Mangs and mekkkah get so many things wrong it's not even funny I am especially tired of them complaining about decisions that don't really matter I mean alot of games do this hell its not even the first example in fire emblem. If they want each decision to matter they should play a visual novel instead of a video game.
@@Vandalieu a lot of games do it, but that don't means is a good mechanic. I agree with them on their opinion on pointless choices, I don't think they are saying is the only game doing it just for saying how it happens on FE 3 Houses.
@@kacklina I get what your saying but honestly complaining about a single choice on a fire emblem game is stupid in my opinion I mean the story has been set from the beginning in all of them. Really the only choices you get is who to recruit and give items to and train and who you should pair up together. The only other two games with branching paths are sacred stones and shadows of valentia and even then once you pick a route your railroaded into the story. The only fire emblem game where your given a choice and it actually effects the story is awakening and even that doesn't change much Just if grima comes back again or not. Mangs released a video called worst things about three house followed by the best things about three houses one of the thing list listed under worst things is that your choices don't matter which is honestly every single fire emblem game if anything three houses gives you even more choices than any other game in the series. Ps I agree Dimitri is the best character.
I love the fact that I fell out of Fire Emblem during the wait to three houses so I never saw any of the trailers and was not spoiled of the Dimitri's transformation. Imagine my shock when his behavior starts to change at the end of the monastery part and when the timeskip happened (which I also didn't know was going to happen at all) and I saw Dimitri crouched against the wall. I just shouted "Is that Dimitri!? What the hell happened!?" Also I didn't realise you could convert students from other houses to your house so it made the second half of the game much more interesting and heartbreaking because I had to kill almost all of students from the other classes. My first playthrough of three houses was an amazing experience and Blue Lions is my favorite route and has my favorite cast of characters.
Same the closest thing I had to a 3H experience before the game came out was pulling Edelgard and Claude in heroes, which is actually why I picked BL in the first place because I wasn't really feeling either character when I heard and read their dialogue in heroes so I figured "welp may as well go with the lord I know pretty much nothing about" and I fell in love with the Blue Lions from there, not just Dimitri but Felix, Sylvain, Ingrid, Annette, Ashe, and Dedue too (so pretty much everyone but Mercedes who I found super boring, plus her voice was annoying but she made up for it by being a stellar unit) the game does a great job of giving the houses a familial feel (except BE imo) to them since my brother felt the same thing about GD, as for post time skip I knew pretty much nothing so consider me surprised when I saw Dimitri sitting in the dark alone speaking Shakespearian his redemption arc is probably my favorite thing in the game writing wise.
As much as I like Claude, I still think that Dimitri is the best character in the game. If they had more time and resources to develop more this game, I'm sure that he would be known as one of the best video game characters.
Claude and Edelgard deserved better TBH Claude barley has any depth even in VW and CF Edelgard is an entirely different character from the other routes (but this could just be me thinking Edelgard just doesn't work as a protagonist)
@@josephpanno6816 I do think Edelgard's characterization isn't great (mainly because of how inconsistent she is), however Claude has quite a bit of depth if you read between the lines. Not in the fanfiction sense, simply picking up on context clues and the like. He is very guarded and sees his allies as means to an end and pawns to further himself to his end game. He is a coward who would not stake his life for the things he believes in (outside of VW) but would let his allies do the same. These traits may seem like headcanon due to how seemingly little they are touched upon, but they are very explicit with this in the Japanese version, and even in the english version you can see hints of his true face pre timeskip (willing to steal jeralt's journal/ sword of the creator, would have hoped rhea was dead if not for the information she carried, doesn't seem to show much emotion in the face of big character building moments for most characters, etc.).
Considering that Rodrigue's death happens after the Battle at Gronder, which is repeatedly stated in all routes to be a massacre for everyone involved, I really don't think it's a stretch to assume that Byleth was exhausted and incapable of divine pulse (out of charges). Same could potentially be said for Rodrigue's spell list, but him not being on the field during the map itself hurts that.
I think that explanation is okay actually! But I wish we as the players didn't have to write these excuses and instead the game gave us one. There isn't a single indication of Byleth even attempting to do it, and it would've been fairly easy to.
@@Mekkkah I'll agree that they should have showed an excuse for why Divine pulse couldn't save Rodrigue. But idk why people view this as such a plot point. I think Byleth learned from Jeralt that he simply can't always reverse death with Divine pulse, so he accepted that it must be fate. Not to intentionally punish Felix and Dimitri. But simply because Byleth accepted that it's not always possible to reverse death with time that way. We already know that he failed to save his own father; why would he expect Rodrigue death to go any differently?
@@l.n.3372 Because it was just the one time. Just because it failed once, that doesn't mean you never try again. And as far as the story goes, Byleth never uses Divine Pulse again. So it fails once, and they decide to just ditch it altogether? That's sounds like bullshit. It'd be like abandoning all guns because one failed to work a single time.
@@XIIIHearts I mean but here's the thing Divine pulse is only a few seconds back in time, in the same position they were in the very moment, most likely Byleth just couldn't alter what was going to happen. As well as that we have no idea where or what Thales could've been doing (considering he seems to be aware of Byleth's divine pulse as he has stopped it before), also if he did save Rodrigue another question is would then Dimitri have ever been saved from the state he is in?
@@JayTeeBeez You say that Divine Pulse is only a few seconds in time, but all Sothis stated was that this power is not infinite. Nowhere is it stated that it only kets you go back a few seconds in time (and then there's the gameplay use where we can go back to the beginning of the whole fight). Also, if Thales really was at the Battle of Gronder Field, wouldn't he want to ensure the Empire's victory to put himself in a better position? Also, no one other than Byleth in the story is aware of Divine Pulse and what it does. The only reason why Thales saved Monica was because he was there observing her work (in the cutscene with them and the Flame Emperor, he states that they must continue watching over her) and she still had some use to their plan.
I think the reason people love Dimitris “redemption” scene is because (at least how I viewed it) we see a man who is broken by the mental struggles he has faced throughout his life, someone who has isolated himself, refused help, believing the issues he has are caused by himself and himself alone, someone not deserving of help and happiness confront those feelings, realising that even though he will forever have those issues, he won’t let them bring him down, won’t be shackled by those problems and push on knowing that no matter what there are people who are there for him, people he can talk to, people he can rely on, and as someone who has felt similar to Dimitri in plenty of ways, it also made me realise a lot of what he did, and I think that’s why so many people love his character. He’s relatable, especially to our current generation of people who deal with constant mental issues and seeing those represented in such an incredible way connected with the people who played this game, and I think that’s why so many people love Dimitri (and also his “redemption” scene)
Flèche attacking Dimitri wasn’t supposed to be a plot twist. We see her talking to Randolph in an earlier cutscene. It’s the kind of situation where the tension comes not knowing when exactly it’s going to happen and what would result of it.
After finishing this route yesterday, for the most part the story was very enjoyable, dimitri didn't feel like an oh the edge character, he had geniune survivors guilt. It also helps that chris hackney put really good emphasis into dimitri's lines. Overall wo many spoilers enjoyable ride
I think you guys are missing the point of fleche. Her role as a plot device in the story is to teach dimitri a lesson and change his ways back to the way her was before. She isn't a walking talking plot twist like Anthony. They telegraph fleche's actions because what is important is her motivations rather than her actions. When fleche tries to join the army, she is denied by everyone including rodrigue. Dimitri personally lets her in because she wants revenge on the person who killed her brother. Dimitri identifies with fleche because his motivations are exactly the same as hers, revenge for the dead. When fleche kills rodrigue, part of what snaps dimitri out of his hate full state is his realization that his hate and drive for revenge had come full circle to strike the ones he cares about. That maybe if he had been compassionate and not filled with hate, rodrigue might not have died. That his actions don't just affect himself but those that matter to him in the present. If fleche had come out of the blue to kill dimitri you wouldn't have this dynamic and you could have had any generic kill rodrigue for the same effect. Without fleche's motivations being clear, Dimitri would probably be further absorbed by his desire for revenge and be nowhere near breaking out of his mental state.
@@josephpanno6816 honestly I think the game would be way better if silver snow didn't exist , say what you will about CF but silver snow was just completely unnecessary everything it does other routes does better it does nothing but robe edelgard of a quality route and robe Claude of a unique story
@@lucasness2 yea that's my point because of silver snow vivern wind is just the church route with Claude instead of being it's own thing if silver snow didn't exist vivern wind would have it's own story instead of just copy and pasting silver snow in to it
You know honestly while I see the whole reusing map criticism, I’m more so okay with it because while they use the same map, they redesign how it plays. It’s not just copy paste, the maps are designed differently. It also helps in GD and BL that even though they use some of the same maps, at least there’s a few exclusives and the later maps are completely rearranged in their order. I think it would have definitely been better to have more maps, but it’s not terrible what we got. Okay edit here. Dimitri’s eye is not explicitly stated, but we can very easily infer what happened. CF is the only Route where the Kingdom doesn’t collapse, and where Dimitri doesn’t go as insane. In all other routes the kingdom is overthrown and he goes batshit crazy. His kingdom being overthrown is what causes his eye to be lost, now wether that’s when he escaped or when he was hunting Imperial soldiers is up to you, but the eye loss is relevant to the events happening, it wasn’t just slapped on purely for the sole sake of design. Edit 2 Dimitri being EDGY is not really the most genuine portrayal of his character. First off it had much more of a negative connotation, but it also doesn’t really fit. I’d describe Dimitri more as broken than anything, he doesn’t fit the stereotype of EDGY. Felix is much more in line with being EDGY, but even then I’d still call that a mischaracterization as well. Edit 3: To be fair Mekkkah, the reason you didn’t see those interactions is because you skipped the monetary. Dedue and Dimitri did have some interaction in the monetary, granted more Dedue would have been better, but he wasn’t completely shafted. Also some characters did appose him, not to the extent of Felix, but they did voice some their thoughts. Honestly I think it came down to no one having the courage or the heart to really put their foot down like Felix did, Sylvain and Ingrid are pretty vocal about wanting to retake the Kingdom. Edit 4: Gotta say no to that Flèche argument, her attempting to kill Dimitri was not supposed to be a twist. It was set up that she was seeking revenge, not supposed to be a huge shock what she was going to do. Rodrigue’s death is pretty blatant from a meta sense, I mean no supports, probably gonna die, but from a plot standpoint it wasn’t foreshadowed at all. There was no massive hint dropped that Rodrigue was goons die, or that a death was needed to bring Dimitri back. It was simply an event in the story. Now you can conclude using deduction that Rodrigue will most likely die, and that Flèche will probably have a hand in it, and that Dimitri needs something pretty drastic for a push back into sanity. But that can happen so many ways, not specifically through Rodrigue dying, it’s just the most logical conclusions looking at the mechanics of the story. It is far better writing to have something where you can figure out where something is going, then having it come out of nowhere. Edit 5: Bloody hell Mangs will you get off your high horse claiming that it’s bad game design? Three Houses was never meant to be like Mass Effect and Kotor, in those games your choices completely shape the narrative and story. Your choices are the driving force of the narrative, and the story revolves around you. Three Houses was never built with this philosophy in mind, it has a linear story and as such can’t be having constant changes in plot if they’re trying to tell a singular story. This thing is very common to where no matter what you say events are still locked, the best you can hope for is changed dialogue depending on what you say, and 3Hs mostly delivers on that. Besides if Byleth is to be silent then this is the only way to interact, and branching dialogue is way of making it less boring only having to select one option to advance the text. What you propose would be worse, as everything would be revolving around Byleth making choices instead of your Lords, who are the driving force of their own stories. That’s exactly why Church Route is so bad, Byleth is a window for the game to tell us its story. He’s a window for the Lords that allows them to take their own shape instead of being bound by the typical FE role that is required of them. Byleth as a window should not be having constant drastic input in the plot, him being relevant for the story is fine, but this has never been Byleth’s story. The game is not trying to trick you, it provides some small interaction with story. At no point was the game telling you that your choices drove the plot, I don’t know where you pulled that from, but that was never an idea in 3H’s story telling. There is a legitimate reason as to why those choices are there, it was never meant to mislead you.
I don't think we are supposed to see the routes as different games like Fates was. Maybe they critisize it because of what we have gotten before, and the routes in Fates also reused stuff but I thought it was more bs CAUSE THEY ARE THREE DIFFERENT GAMES Three Houses feels like 1 game with 4 timelines and not 4 different games so I'm honestly fine with the repetition (except for them using the same map 3 times in SS, but at least each time it was different)
"Edit 3: To be fair Mekkkah, the reason you didn’t see those interactions is because you skipped the monetary." I didn't show it in my LP but I did do monastery off screen. I remember one instance of Dimitri and Dedue standing next to each other and talking there, and then their A support and that's about it. Maybe there was more but I would have liked waaaay more. Gilbert and Rodrigue basically replaced Dedue in part 2.
"You know honestly while I see the whole reusing map criticism, I’m more so okay with it because while they use the same map, they redesign how it plays." I mean, sometimes they do, sometimes they don't...a lot of maps shared between GD and BL play exactly the same. CF twists them a bit. I do agree that they can feel different at times, but at the same time, the maps in 3H have so little real design to them period that I don't think they change a whole lot. There's very little side objectives and even very little difference between main objectives. That's not a "map reuse" criticism as much as it is "map design"...but it doesn't help.
Mekkkah Oh no I agree that Dedue should have been more prevalent, and that his interactions were reduced, but you did miss at least 2 momentary dialogues that really helped flesh out Dimitri and Dedue’s relationship. Also across all GD and BL all pre Grondor maps are the same, after that though is when they split. GD and BL have different layouts for The Impregnable Fortress, Enbar, and the Royal Palace, as well as having 2 different maps entirely. Having mostly no reused maps would have been better, but considering how many chapters this game has across all routes, and especially because it’s all one game, I find it not very realistic to expect. But yeah no completely valid about SS, it definitely suffers the worst through cannibalizing other routes.
Regarding the lack of people not opposing Dimitri, thats not actually true, as you said one example is Felix, others are Ferdinand saying he should step down as a king if he lets his emotions get the better of him, Lysithea rather than opposing is worried about how Dimitri is leading the army and stuff like that
Dimitri's route is about a boy that has been completely broken and gone mad. He lost everything, has constant hallucinations and deals with ptsd. He is an amazing character that talks about mental health and overcoming your own demons.
thank you. Thank you for explainign how mediocre of a character dimitir is. He is broken and suffers, and yet he is executed awfully and his redemption is quick and lazy. Dimitri character wise is very shallow and mediocre. His main story is so awfully executed, but kids like you think edgy boys with tragic past are amazing characters, you must be 5 years old
While I absolutely adore this game and is one of my top entries to this series, if not my fav entry in the series, I do have one complaint about part 1. It's the fact that each route does not have missions exclusive to them. Even if it was only a couple, it would allow Black Eagles and Golden Deer to stand out more in Part 1. But it's mainly stuff happening in the kingdom for the couple of chapters, so its importance to the blue lions stand out more. It's part of the reason why blue lions is my fav route in the game. Not to mention they have the best story in the game. It is hard for me to decide between Dimitri and Claude as my fav lord in this game tho.
Not only do the Blue Lions have more connection to part 1, but the students simply have more connection to the ongoing story than most other students from the other houses. Half the Blue Lions relate to the tragedy of Duscur, which is obviously a major event in recent Fodlan history. Ashe has a connection to both Catherine and Lonato, Sylvain has Miklan, Mercedes obviously has the death knight. Annette and her relationship with Gilbert, who is introduced in part 1. Felix/Dimitri and their connection to Rodrigue, also introduced in part 1. It's just so clear how they related to the overarching plot building up within part 1. You'd almost have to rewrite the story to give every Black Eagles and Golden Deer an equal connection to the plot, because most of them don't feel like they're part of the plot at all, especially the Golden Deer students beyond Claude, Hilda, Lorenz and Lysithea.
@@l.n.3372 I'm gonna mention this when these guys eventually get to golden deer thoughts, but I wish we could've met Holst. He could've been the main tie in for GD to part 1.
@@silverfortune2205 Yeah not gonna lie, wish the DLC made him playable and not a bunch of random forgotten heroes that nobody cares about because they're already not part of the story.
Out of curiosity, which are your favorite entries in the series? My top 5 would be Three Houses, Awakening, Path of Radiance, Echoes, and Radiant Dawn. In that order I guess, but they're all up there for completely different reasons so it's not really a fair list.
TL;DR: in an ideal world, Dedue not actually being dead should have had way more impact than none, I wish this game wasn't as rushed in areas. Dedue gets slighted in terms of writing in the part 2 BL route. Because if you don't do his paralogue in part 1, then he stays dead. While I absolutely love this concept in theory, it's clear that with the rushed job of Crimson Flower, this ended up meaning that rather than having the potential for the player to miss out on alternate scenes where Dedue is there, because they didn't enable him to survive, the decision was made to really limit Dedue's presence in part two instead. The logic being "well if the player didn't do this one hard-to-miss side quest, they wouldn't see this anyway, so don't do this and put the effort elsewhere" I thought for sure that when Dedue came back, that would be the catalyst for Dimitri regaining his old self a bit. Sure I was 99% sure that Rodrigue was going to happen, but I was kinda amazed that Dedue being alive was given approximately 4 lines of dialogue and then just swept under the rug. I didn't even realise that "those duscar soldiers saved me" was even referring to the paralogue, because that was about 20-30 hours of gameplay and weeks ago.
I agree, my first impression was that Dedue return would be the catalyst for Dimitri's redemption arc. That is until I realized that not every player got Dedue back from the paralogue in part 1. If this was a FE game during the GBA era or earlier, and Byleth didn't exist as a concept, then I'm sure that Rodrigue and Dedue would be the full catalyst and more important to Dimitri's redemption arc. But instead, Byleth presence or absence seems to be the separation point between routes that determines whether or not Dimitri is able to escape his darkness and return to the light. But a part of me will always wish that it was Dedue that was more prominent because his relationship with Dimitri is among my favorite in the entire game, and their reunion on the bridge is truly touching, as is their A support and paired ending.
@@l.n.3372 tbf the most important change Blythe cased was the 5 year promise to meet at the monastery again. Without that Randolph's sister (can't remember her name >.>) wouldn't have tried to kill him after the battle of Gondor Field, which ironically saved his life since it seemed like he was going to make the same choice as the other routes and go after Edelguard, which is what gets him killed on the other routes.
Why would Dedue coming back change anything its not like Dimitri would suddenly stop going after Edelgard and Dedue wouldn't stop him in fact he's determined to help him kill her.
Kinda spoiler ish I think the implied time where he lost his eye is when he was captured and put on death row by cordelia since his has both eyes only on the routes where he was never captured
Personally, I think the reason why so many of the other Blue Lion students seemed to be so unaffected about Dimitri’s change, just show how they never really “knew” the real Dimitri. They’d say things like “Dimitri isn’t being himself anymore what happened” but viewing it as if someone just had a bad day, but will eventually come back to “himself”, but people like Felix and Dedue know that this vengeance side of him is a part of the “real” Dimitri, as well as his kinder side. So the lack of disturbance from other characters, at least to me, I interpret as them not knowing who Dimitri really is besides a Prince or or classmate. They don’t view his behavior as significant because they don’t know how this wasn’t a change, but more of a reveal of the other half of Dimitri. Because change implies a possibility to reverse it. But Dedue and Felix know that this is just a part of him he’s kept hidden, but must learn to actually control and not let his wild side take over his thinking. When he gets “redeemed” and becomes “normal” again, besides Dedue and Felix, everyone views it as if he actually changed, but it’s more that he learns to control his vengeance and think more rationally about his actions
"I think if you're bi, gay, or a girl, that scene has a lot more merit". Or we just have different opinions. I'm a straight dude, and Dimitri's post-Ch. 17 scene really moved me. Maybe if you do Blue Lions first? I was blown away when I went through Azure Moon.
The "fix a bad boy" trope follows a clear structure of meeting the bad boy, then for some reason deciding you can fix this stranger for flimsy reasons. Dimitri doesn't fall into this because you meet him as a friend before his untreated mental illness and years of isolation break him, and even then, he mainly isolates himself from the group and makes no violent moves towards Byleth or the rest of the Blue Lions. It's Byleth supporting an old friend struggling with mental illness, one who they've seen the good parts of. It's funny you bring up the criticism thing because Dimitri is by far the Lord who gets the most criticism from his companions. Not only Felix, the monastery lines make it clear that no one agrees with or even really respects him in that state. If anything, Edelgard is the Lord who doesn't get criticized in her route. It helps that Dimitri himself is self aware, so the game is able to actually point out his wrongs. As for the edginess thing, while I agree it could be a little much, it also kind of had to be. After everything he's been through, anything less wouldn't have been believable, and his crimes while in that state play a key role in who he becomes; his guilt and self deprecation after he begins to recover would feel artificial if he hadn't gone to the extremes he did while at his worse.
Completely agree. All of the Blue Lions have either criticized Dimitri or judged his decisions. Sylvain even says post Gronder that he can't forget what Dimitri has done but he will continue to support his friend's recovery because they are old friends and he wants the best for Dimitri. I also agree that crimson flower Edelgard doesn't make much sense in terms of criticism by her fellow peers. The Hubert/Ferdinand support is one of my favorite in the game. But it's mainly accessible on crimson flower, which is actually where it makes the least sense. Ferdinand claims that as future prime minister, he must always push Edelgard thru competition because he must steer her in the right direction if she's gone astray. Um hello Ferdinand!? What part of starting a war based on mistaken premises did you think made sense? Why didn't you do a better job as her advisor on crimson flower?
The issue with the criticisms is that despite how inane Dimitri is, and no matter how badly they repeatedly mention needing to free the kingdom capital, marshal more troops, and gather more rations, they still listen to him. Even Byleth, the player, who is essentially holding up the entire army (since the Knights of Seiros are on your side and multiple students mention they specifically believe in you, not Dimitri) is constantly being dragged around by Dimitri's whims. OF COURSE he gets the most criticisms, his goal is revenge, not some morally righteous goal like Edelgard and later Claude. But despite that, everyone still follows his whims. Its frustrating and maybe its intentional writing. The Kingdom is repeatedly mentioned to uphold knighthood and chivalry, a blind loyalty to their lord. Doesn't mean its not annoying to watch chapter after chapter.
@@reilie9115 That's completely nonsense. Edelgard is criticized to hell and back on the other 3 routes by her former teammates, yet on her own route, they never do a good enough job showing why they suddenly believe in her war/cause. Ferdinand and Hubert's entire support conversation is about how they're training to become advisors for her but need to balance their own thoughts while guiding her if she stray off the path. Yet in crimson flower, where is Ferdinand the advisor guiding her when she fucks up and makes bad choices? We know that Hubert supports her cause and war, but why on Earth would Ferdinand? Dorothea who is traumatized by the war on every single route in her monastery dialogue? Linhardt who hates bloodshed and doesn't want to be part of war? Hell, none of the Black Eagles really have much reason to join her cause because none of them really support the war for any good reason on that 1 specific route.
@@l.n.3372 Yeah I agree, 1 of the worst things about CF is how everyone was yes men to Edel's crimes, war & conquer. Even for peaceful anti war characters like Dorothea, Berny & Linhardt, not to mention reducing Ferdie to an idiot who is always obsessed with seeing Edel as this great person he needs to overcome when in fact she's nothing like that at all if we judge her by her actions in game lol. I won't forget how Petra, a literal hostage doesn't even has animosity towards Edel, why?? It just makes no sense other than "she's waifu we can't criticize". Hell even Byleth is reduced to his/her worst self with her, is a puppet & never challenge her commands, even though she had a hand indirectly in killing his father! Edel in front of Byleth says she's gonna lie about TWSITD's attack on Arienhold to her classmates & soldiers to serve her propaganda, ironically she is commiting the same deed that she says Rhea did, lying about a historical event to further her agenda! I mean what?! We're going to enable this warmonger on her crimes & lies without saying anything! I honestly hate CF mainly because of this, along with the horrible writing ofc.
@@shadowsquid1351 Are you my spirit animal? That's like looking into a mirror and saying everything that I feel about crimson flower! I hate when people say oh crimson flower is fine but it just needed 4 more chapters to defeat Arundel/Thales. Fucking wrong. That route was flawed from the start because it turns every Black Eagles into their worse versions of themselves. Why on Earth has Ferdinand become a yes man when his whole (amazingly written support locked to that route only) with Hubert insisted that Ferdinand strives to challenge Edelgard to ensure that she's never on the wrong path. Um when exactly did that happen? He also criticized Hubert for being a yes man but then Hubert proves that he keeps secrets from Edelgard as well to protect her while doing what's necessary for her cause. But Ferdinand on CF is his most shallow version of himself where he doesn't question or challenge Edelgard and Hubert enough. He just accepted that Edelgard is right which is a disservice to him and his arc. Dorothea is traumatized by this war; in what way does she join the aggressor? Linhardt is afraid of blood and can't stand the sight of death; yep, he's with the aggressor too. Bernadetta hides in her room on every route even post time skip; why is the shy, peaceful minded girl likely to join the aggressor? What good reason did they have to stay with Edelgard when they don't really support her actions or cause? Why does Petra not care that she's a hostage when it's such an important fact on silver snow and the other routes? Why does Caspar, who believes in justice and hates the death knight in the Mercedes paralogue and Solon, have no issues with joining their fucking team in the war and siding with those who slither? Why are the Black Eagles OOC to justify staying with Edelgard? Not gonna lie, even though it pains me to lose Hubert, my favorite Eagle, and all of his A support conversations which I love, I truly wish crimson flower hadn't existed in this game because it makes the rest of the Black Eagles such shallow versions of themselves. As if they no longer have their moral principles from silver snow. Or at least, give me a crimson flower where Ferdinand challenges Edelgard and some legitimate reason for the rest to willingly join the aggressor of the war despite how they hate war and death.
Why would the axe that never appears in the game be on the Heroes art and the regular flame emperor art? If you look closely you will see it's actually just a silver axe
The "no risk of armor break" thing about Edelgard wasn't that you couldn't break the armor, but rather that she wouldn't be afflicted with the status effect beasts usually are when they're broken, meaning that she doesn't skip a turn afterwards.
In defense of the "twist" and "foreshadowing" thing, the combination of the two is another literary device - it doesn't intend to 'ambush' the player with a surprise, they instead want to instill a feeling of dread or inevitability into the player. It's commonly used in Thrillers and Horrors - a scare is far more intense if it has a buildup telegraphed to the player instead of a sudden climax. To that end, I don't think Rodgrigue's death being foreshadowed by the various events which lead up to it ruins the event. Because the focus isn't Rodrigue dying. Sucks to be him, but the story focus of that scene is "the consequences of Dimitri's blind pursuit of revenge", which eventually leads to a consequence that pushes him over the brink and out of his hate-filled haze. To that end, him nearly torturing Randolph to death, the scenes with Fleche, and the clear foreshadowing to her assassination attempt don't ruin the moment - it builds up for the emotional impact of it.
Mangs is right about the kingdom vs empire capital question, but the east vs west thing really is a geographic question with east making much more sense
Yeah, I agree. I will admit though, Gilbert asking and then saying no himself was badly executed. It should have been more like this: Gilbert: West or East? Byleth: West! Felix(or anyone else that makes sense, anyone other than Gilbert really): No that's a stupid idea, because enemy territory!
It's most prominent in the femleth S support, but Dimitri never fully "bounces back". It's not like you flip a switch and he's cured, he still hears and sees voices and ghosts, he finally figures out proper coping methods to deal with them. Likely he'll experience them most of his life, but importantly, he knows how to deal with them and he isn't dealing with them alone anymore.
Is true Dimitri doesnt get callout often for his bs but some of the dialogues in the monastery are like Hilda being only here for the profesor and Caspar being worried about his uncle being tortured, but I think is way worse in Crimson Flower, she tried to kill her class and never gets called out for that. And I disliked more Edelgard after some dialogues like the one when she talks about Dimitri not being unable to understand the common people when he has been walking and living in the slums, and in Verdant Wind about Claude dont understanding the history of Fodlan when she has also a wrong version of the story. And Dimitri is never fully healed, even in the S support talks about still seing ghost of the death, and I also agree than the point is more to try to reach an old friend more than fixing it.
I don't think it's fair to criticize edelgard on those things that's outside knowledge that edelgard doesn't have only we the viewers know those things there natural assimtions based on what she knows about them Dimitri is a prince Destined for the throne a royal , his family and his reign benefits from the current system so naturally she'd assume he wouldn't understand the issues of the lower classes , and Claude is an outsider he didn't find out more about fodlen until later on its not out of disrespect it's just misunderstanding of them , but yea the fact that they never bring up or question edelgard about her darker actions is a big negative on her and her route
@@thatoneblackdude3333 sounds fair, but I also just find a bit weird how she doesn't know a lot of things if she wants to rule them all (in not Crimson Flower routes) and her version of the story.. . Were did even came? The dubstep guys came with that fake tale? Because that would be even worse.
@@iwantmoney3598 well I mean knowing the full story isn't really necessary for being a good ruler Dimitri didn't know a lot if shit and turned out fine , her view point most likely came from twsitd manipulating her into turning on reha
@@thatoneblackdude3333 thats so true, I think IS doesn't went for that side of the story because doesn't wanted to be the same final as Golden Deer, but not even the Tragedy of Duscur got fully explained, what happened to Edelgard mom or maybe because the topic of the route was to move on or they just wanted to put in the DLC; maybe also Edelgard will reach the truth in a CF DLC
@@iwantmoney3598 She mentions that her knowledge is passed down from the first emperor of the empire since Wilhelm originally sided with Seiros and Rhea does end up proving a lot of her theories to be true.
My biggest complaint of this route is definitely Dedue’s “optional” death, and the way they executed Rodrigue’s death. The idea of making Dedue’s death optional meant that Dedue’s return could NOT be significant to Dimitri’s redemption, because honestly, I think Dedue would make a bit more logical sense as a catalyst for Dimitri’s redemption, sure Rodriguez is a father figure, but Dedue was much closer growing up together, it would even make more sense for Dedue to be the one to rush in and protect Dimitri from flèche, since he is his “Sword and Shield”, if anything Rodriguez and Lambert would be a parallel to Dimitri and Dedue. Now for Rodrigue, I’m in the boat that says the reason he should die is, like Sothis said before, he was meant to die. But they should have put it in a way that didn’t come across as, “Rodrigue Dead = Dimitri sudden redemption” I feel like what they were going for was for Dimitri to realize “My actions of murderous intent actually do have consequences and have led to someone close to me dying as retribution” as well as “Fleche’s thirst for revenge is similar to my own, now I see how much of a monster I have become”. That’s how I think the scene was meant to be interpreted, but it was executed so badly that people will think it means Dimitri is sad Rodrigue dead, so sad that he wants to change
Oh you have no idea how much I envy people get to play BL blind. I have so much complaints in the way the multi route worked and how the story and support flowed (i wanted a multi route btw). But BL is straight up good. It has so little actual problems writing wise, and the themes are way more coherent with the cast. If they just released the game with just BL, I actually would've been just as happy ,even when I wanted multi route. And I am someone who loved GD!
I'm surprised I haven't heard any FEtuber mention how the ending cinematic fits the line from Edge of Dawn: "Open the door And walk away Never give in To the call of yesterday"
15:00 Unfortunately in Crimson Flower Edelgard isn't called for her bs at all. At least Azure Moon has Felix which it was built up from the part 1 animosity from Felix.
Yea edelgard not getting called out and developing was what hurt her route badly Ferdinand should have been her Felix his character was all about making sure edelgard becomes a great leader but once the time comes it never happens
@@AndiTiucsart it's honestly a down grade for him instead of being this shining example of how a noble should be and helping edelgard down the right path along side bylith he's no better then Hubert just another yes man for edelgard but that the entire point of why she's so fucked up she was surrounded by yes men and was never challenged on her beliefs which resulted in her being a antagonist
@@thatoneblackdude3333 for sure, I was so disappointed by how their A supports with Edelgard played out, it felt like she was being talked to, and there was hardly any conflict that carried out from supports such as Linhardt etc
Much as I love Claude and the Golden Deer (first run), I barely enjoyed Blue Lions more (my second run). Not in a bad way but I think why Dimitri works a bit better is that Dimitri has like a “real” character arc. I can’t say Claude really changes from part one to two. Dimitri obviously does. I don’t see him really as an edgelord personally. The effectiveness his redemption arc is certainly worthy of discussion. It’s something I think needs more than an initial thought process. Like oh boy that happened but I’ve seen a lot of different discussions about it by now so I’ve of the mindset that while it could’ve been a bit better execution wise I can respect how Dimitri doesn’t go from super depressed to a ray of sunshine. That would be unrealistic af and irritating. I hate the set up for it, like Flèche being allowed to join and do her thing is bull crap but can’t change that. Not finished any black eagles routes yet but I’m positive neither of them are gonna top blue lions for me.
Claude's personality change is subtle and you have to be aware of how he was trying to use Byleth for information and power for his own dreams. Some of his C supports are unabashedly him trying to investigate other people's secrets and offering nothing in return. Not many people realize when they're being used until after the friendship/relationship is over lol After timeskip, he becomes more genuine and feels more guilty about asking Byleth to attend roundtables and became more compassionate about his friends. He gave the Golden Deer a way out if they were scared of dying on the battlefield and he wouldn't shame them for it, and that says a lot from a guy who uses others like pawns on a chessboard.
TBH Rodrigue's death was the most powerful moment for me across all routes. idk how I didn't see it, but I genuinely gasped and put down my switch. Lions is the best character driven, Deer is imo the most complete route tho.
Love this route, it's story is easily my favourite narrative in the FE games I've played so far. Hell I see this route as more canon than the Black Eagles route. While the game shouldn't have spoiled Dimitri's inner darkness so early when it comes out in Remire it was such an "oh damn here it comes" moment, and then the Flame Emperor reveal... damn, just damn, Dimitri easily became my second favourite Lord just then. Then the timeskip and he became one of my least favourites, I hate edgy characters and there was a few times where I regretted not picking Golden Deer. His redemption arc was perfect though, Rodrigue's death was almost perfect honestly, if they'd just written Byleth out of that scene and had Rodrigue fight off Fleche then that's a plot hole avoided. His death then going into his last conversation with Lambert was perfect. Byleth helping Dimitri's redemption was good but due to Byleth being a self insert it wasn't written as well as it could've been, 3H has a good plot despite having a ton of player worship but it made certain scenes suffer, I would've loved more characters to be involved in Dimitri's redemption with maybe Felix being the final catalyst towards him going towards his redemption. Once he is redeemed though it's wonderful to see, his paralogue really highlighted Dimitri's self loathing and how he still doesn't see himself as worthy, how the work he's neglected for a few months has built up and despite all of this he isn't shying away from it. Dimitri even shows how much he's grown during his talk with Edelgard before the final two chapters, 5ish months ago this guy would be charging at her and now here he is hearing her out. And that final cut scene man, I never cry at games but I came damn close to when I saw he not even hesitate to kill Edelgard after she threw the Dagger at him I felt legitimately proud of him, do you know how hard it is to feel proud of a fictional character? To feel proud of someone fictional requires a big suspension of disbelief to believe that this character is real. I think I've only been proud of a fictional character once or twice before this game.
yes, you took the words right out of my mouth! the only real difference is that tho i too hate overly edgy characters, i didnt really see dima is one despite all his edgy lines, im much more emotional & attached to him so pts-dimitri to me felt like a stab in the heart and instead of annoying i just felt bad whenever i saw him. but he WAS incredibly badass during battles so meh. rodrigue's death wouldve been perfect if byleth had been elsewhere. and completely agree on that final cutscene... wow. it was perfect.
Jas L My dislike of Dimitri wasn’t immediate, I thought for the first few chapters it was really well done even when he’s saying that he’ll drag everyone down with him. I thought Randolphs after battle scene was brilliant even if it’s used to show how edgy Dimitri is, it’s essentially unheard of an FE Lord torturing an enemy and pointing out their hypocrisy, he’s kinda right, Randolph is still an enemy who kills others even if he was following orders, I was even fine with Byleth coming in to stop him from torturing Randolph, it was really well done. His edginess wasn’t immediate to me it just started to annoy me after a while and how no one actually spoke up against him before them other than Felix, hell the scene on the Great Bridge could’ve been really good since Dimitri does point out that Byleth went for his revenge against Kronya, sure it was cliche to have a “we’re not so different” moment but it definitely made Dimitri’s revenge have more credit, then Felix comes in and I think he’s finally gonna go against Dimitri but all he does is say how Byleth and Dimitri aren’t the same and then goes off, like come back this was almost a great scene. That was the first time I found Dimitri insufferable. Like I said though he gets better, much better and he’s probably my favourite Lord in the series right now.
Thematically, I really like the idea of Edelgard throwing that dagger at the end as a statement towards Dimitri; showing him that she adopted the whole Faerghus idea of "cutting your own path" when he gave it to her and that she tried to follow through on that tradition.
I don't know man, I love the maps, zooming in to see the layout of Shambala, the monastery during the invasion and Edelgard castle shows how big and how much care was put into those maps, you gotta take it slow to appreciate it I guess, I wish we had more maps though or less kill the commander maps.
Not being spoiled by anything at all for three houses expect "there's a timeskip" and playing blue lions first was such a great experience and im glad i didn't choose edelgard at the beginning (original choice)
Regarding why Byleth didn't use Divine Pulse for Rodrigue... I think when the writers did that scene with Jeralt they were trying to say "Divine Pulse can't undo something that is written by fate". I do not agree with the whole thing either but I just /think/ that was their intention, precisely so that you would not question why Byleth didn't use DP for Rodrigue or why Byleth didn't use it with such and such.
My two cents on "criticizing you two for not paying attention" as you say: I will never take the "it was so blatant, they don't know how to be subtle" excuse seriously because if it's too subtle then players will miss it and blame the writing for not making sense. There's definitely a fine balance between being so cryptic that it just comes out of nowhere vs beating the twist in your face repeatedly, but after watching so many streamers and LPers miss the more subtle clues, there's a compromise the writers have to make so that people who are only somewhat paying attention will actually understand what's happening. The fact that angry RU-vid comments became supplementary reading material to understand the story is pretty telling. Usually the most blatant and in-your-face twists aren't subtle at all because it's too important for the story to miss. You will rarely hear about good subtle cues in writing because most people will just miss it anyway. People will need a RU-vid video / Liberal Arts Professor to be the blatant beating-into-your-face presenter explaining the subtleness to the point where it's not subtle anymore. The writers could have just done that in the first place to save everyone the trouble.
I dislike 3H's a lot but the criticism of Fleche having bad foreshadowing is unfair. They are clearly going for dramatic irony which is a technique used to create drama by providing the audience with information that the characters themselves do not know.
Dimitri's eye injury in think gets brought up in either tea time or monestary dialogue, it's just a injury he got when he was a murderous hobo for 5 years, which is why he didn't have it in CF
This might be stupid, but these are, like, my favorite Mangs+Mekkah videos. I know that everything these guys do is talk about Fire Emblem, but this format is so much better for me. This happens all the time in LPs (especially in ones with a lot of thinking/planning like FE4) when they get on an interesting FE topic, and then the game gets in the way of that good conversation. Hearing these two talk about their thoughts on the games is just super entertaining and interesting to me, so I love these videos. It'd be super cool if they did, like, a podcast type thing with these kinds of talks. Maybe I'm crazy and that'd be super redundant, but I dunno. I'd watch it.
Yes yesyes yes!!!! He was done so well! I constantly thought it was maybe Volke or Sothe because those would have been so obvious. Or Ma... Mar... ....Who's the orange armor pink hair only gambles? Marcia I think was his sister? Oh god it's been too long. Macalow? It could have been him too But Nasir? Never guessed
having played blue lions route first, can confirm, it's the best route to start with and probably the best route period also, yeah, the whole ashe/lonato chapter, sylvain/gautier chapter, mercedes/death knight recurrence, dimitri/sylvain/felix/ingrid storylines, the very prevalent dedue/dimitri relationship, etc. just shows how much time they spent on the blue lions route. it's just the best route with the best story and the most fleshed-out characters. the game was clearly made to be played as the blue lions.
@@musaab7260 I saw Felix say that during part 1. It has been a while since I played so I don't remember exactly who said what when. I just know I wanted Dedue to be more important in part 2.
Kinda wish you guys talked a bit about the childhood flashbacks with Edelgard, since you don't really get them in any other route and they give the story more personal stakes.
I think this is the best order to play the game. BL : To get the player emotionally invested into the game GD/SS : They are interchangeable. Both give a lot insight into the lore of the world and Byleth. BE : To give some final justice to the villain But GD can also be played last because its ending is super satisfying
...villain? Rhea definitely does some shady shit, and she definitely needs to be put down in the Crimson Flower route, but I don't think she's more evil than TWISTD, or even Edelgard. In fact BE was the most uncomfortable for me to play and I definitely didn't feel like I was dealing any sort of justice.
The best playthrough order is definitely BL -> CF -> VW -> and then silver snow, I guess. Expands the world slowly from personal to more encompassing that way, and you get the flame emperor reveal pure. That and most of part 1 is centered in the Kingdom
@@sigurd8382 yeah, but its just playthrough order, rather than anything else. For story purposes each one in this order expands on the others... and then the church route exists, I guess
Personally would switch around CF and VW (or just drop SS entirely and have them watch the unique cutscenes online). VW and SS are basically identical with only 1 different map and 1 map being dropped. Doing the two back to back is taking the gripes people have with WC being the same in all 4 routes and amping it up to 11.
12:43 Felix isn't an edgelord, he is a tsundere, just like Severa/Selena in Awakening/Fates. 16:27 I agree, especially in part 1 of the game where the Blue Lions characters like Sylvain and Ashe from what I remember had something to do with the story. 17:12/18:10 I agree with the argument that Byleth used Divine Pulse to try to save Jeralt but it didn't work, so Byleth accepted that certain things are just going to happen. I mean do you want to turn this into an Awakening situation, where there is no consequence to time travel powers? 31:00 Agreed, the three way battle should have been all three armies fighting each other, instead of the Kingdom and Alliance trying to "work together" to take down the Empire, but it didn't turn out so well. 33:09 Agree, Those Who Slither in the Dark should've been the main villains, especially for the Church route (I haven't played Church route yet, yeah, I know, but it makes sense since the Church follows Sothis, and Those Who Slither in the Dark are enemies of Sothis from how Solon and Thales reacted to Byleth after fusing with Sothis). 33:59 At least it wasn't another dragon, looks at Black Eagles route. Overall I feel Blue Lions is the best route, as in the pre-time skip of the story, each of the characters are involved in a way with the story (Ashe VS Lonato, Slyvain VS Miklan, Mercedes VS Death Knight, and Dimitri and Byleth VS the Flame Emperor ), and later on in post time skip as well, since the Blue Lions had their own goals they needed to accomplish.
Original Gameteer weren’t Those Who Slither suppose to be enemies of Sothis? Solon and Thales seemed to hate her. Then there is the church/Golden Deer route with the Agarthans.
@@LeRandomRayquaza2011 yeah, they tried to rebel against Sothis and the children of the goddess The thing is, in GD and SS, Those Who Slither dont become relevant until the last two chapters after edelgard falls. And in SS, the last chapter has nothing to do with them (unlike GD) so they still feel like an add-on at the very end
My only regret is we will probably never see a route where all three Lords work together. I honestly thought this would be a potential route, like maybe a hidden route or new game plus. I guess Edelgard is too much of an Arvis to have this happening.
I am hoping they released a 5th path as DLC, when Blue Lions and Golden Deer team up. Where both Claude and Dimitri have their differences but agree with each other just to sweep Eldelgard
Blue Lions just feels to me like the main route. I started out with Blue Lions and i just loved the story and character progression. The plottwist wasn't new to me, so that didn't matter. I just wanted to know what drove Dimitri mad. His character is one of the better written in the newer Fire Emblem games. The process from sanity into insanity and back was just so good. I also loved all the other Blue Lions characters. To put them into the classes, that i thought would suit them best was a pretty good experience. My second route was Golden Deers and i liked that it put another twist into the story. And now im playing Black Eagles... That two parted story does't pull me in enough. I really hope that the DLCs will bring us another route to experience, maybe something that expends the Golden Deer ending.
I kept saying that using turning back time as an actual story mechanic was idiotic, because so many plot holes can be created because of it. Milla's Turnwheel at least made sense. It had a story and gameplay mechanic separately. Story: Watching the memories. Gameplay: Turning back time. But in 3H basically uses going back to time as an actual plot. Imagine if they tried to do that for the remake of Genealogy, or Thracia 776. "Leif used Njorun's Turnwheel to go back in time to correct his decision of sending soldiers to Alster!" - or rather, NOT used it. The only "traitor among us" trope that was used well was a certain chad from Tearring Saga... which reminds me: You should play Tearring Saga.
Am i the only one that feels that dimitris "redemption" is not so much that his darkness is "gone" but like, he goes back to keeping it in check like in part 1, bc i remember that his crazyness comes up again at times, like when you fight cornelia. And also like, at the end when you kill edelgard and he wants to go back into the throne room, what i understood is he wanted to go in and do what he kept saying he wanted to do and behead her bc he was really angry idk
He also was reluctant to take up the reigns of leadership and be the king again. I like to think that was partially because he thinks he could easily snap again and doesn't want to force his subjects to deal with that later
No, he wanted to go back because he still wanted to save Edelgard, but Byleth knew it was impossible and stopped him. He was much more compassionate at the end, which is completely different from his part 1 self, who’s only pretending to be good (or rather to have good motivations). As Dedue said, when Dimitri redeems himself, he becomes sane for the first time in nine years. He is very different from his part 1 self. It’s true that he still has problems, like when he says he still hears voices in his S support.
Gambling Prince That’s interesting actually, I always thought he looked sad. I think it was just supposed to show that he still had hope, or that he still didn’t want to give up on her. It wouldn’t make sense for him to want to behead her, since he kept talking about avoiding a fight and resolving things peacefully before going to Enbarr. There was clearly no hatred left for Edelgard (he went from thinking she’s evil incarnate to understanding why she wanted to change the world).
You: I don't like the Jeralt argument. Me: I don't like that not many people understand the psyche of how a personal character (Byleth included) must act based on the player in a video game's story. But we can't all have what we want.
@@mihaimercenarul7467 There are worse examples of bad writing than what is seen with the whole Jeralt thing, and the thing about only choosing 1 of 3 paths already marketed it as a game is logically bad writing to begin with when it has an avatar in it that is supposed to be a teacher, which is logically where the main point of bad writing in Three Houses is.
I played blue lions first and I'm very happy. Best route, easily. Also for the ending, another thing you may have missed is that while you are correct that she was forcing Dimitri to kill her, she also wanted Dimitri to cut his own path now, since it's the same dagger he gave her in the past.
Personally Verdant Wind is my favorite route followed by Azure Moon because there are less plot holes in Claude’s route and the ending felt more complete whereas Dimitri’s ending has some potential loose ends. Agree with all of the points brought up but I feel like you and Mangs could’ve expanded a bit more on the supports consider that Blue Lion has some of the best supports in the game (better than BE supports at the very least imo). This route was definitely the most engaging one and the character supports played a big part for me.
My biggest problem overall with the game's writing now, is that IS clearly put so much effort and focus on Azure Moon (Blue Lions) that Verdant Wind and Crimson Flower suffered for it. And Silver Snow just didn't need to exist at all.
I wasn't a fire emblem fan before this game; I only got it cause my brother said i might be interested. I played the game w/ blue lions blind, and holy shit i wanted to cry when io beat it lol
Mangs, I feel like you are interpreting the ending scene wrong. Remember what the dagger means to Dimitri. This meaning is not lost on Edelgard. She has accepting defeat in the end and telling Dimitri to cut his own path. That's what Dimitri realized when he tried to turn around at the end.
lmao speaking of choices that don't matter, there's a particular choice in part 1 of golden deer that just loops until you pick the option the game wants you to
Good video, I will say I feel the battle of gronder triple threat gets a bit too much flak for the following reasons. 1) While the fog may seem like a poor excuse it is and was not an entierly uncomon occurance throughout history for soldiers to attack friendly or even their own regiments (Battle of germantown,Battle of fleurs etc) in instances where fog wasnt nescesairly even an issue. While it is true that the way FE presents its battles(both sides ware distinct colours and some of the combatants are aquaintances) it is still implied gronder was a confusing mess and it is not unreasonable to postulate that an attack on a presumably friendly force is unlikley. 2) Claude has no reason to wish to ally himself with Dimitri in this battle, a concrete alliance was never formed and a coordinated assault wasnt planed, this and the fact that Claude has his own agenda that differs from both Dimitris and Edelgards coupled with the fact that their millitary power is implied to be relativley equal means it is not a stretch to assume Claude would benefit from taking out both Edelgard and Dimitri. Seeing as Dimitri has demonstrated a clear unwillingness to cooperate, Claude has no reason to go out of his way to keep Dimitri alive (their battle dialogue somewhat contradicts this but Claude isnt exactly implied to always be honest about his feelings, yes he would prefer if Dimitri lived, but he also shouldnt have any qualms about him dying if it serves his desired end, plus he has to protect himself and his own people before trying to reconsile with an insane ghost seeing spear man) This is probably my least favourite explenation but seeing as Claude is shown to not be above dishonourable tactics, I dont think its unlike him to try to make the best of a bad situation and sieze on any oportunity which brings his dream closer to fruition, especially sience he isnt even technically betraying or backstabing anyone, hes just going with the flow. 3)Dimitri gives a very direct order at the start of the battle. In the video you do point out that only Dimitri wants to activley fight the alliance and you also say that not everyone in the Faerghus squad shares his sentiment. Still what are they gonna do? If they say they wont fight Dimitri will just charge to kill every last one of them on his own (not uncharacteristic of him see GD battle of gronder) and either succeed due to his prodigouss strength, relic and martial prowess, or dies. While the members of blues lions have grown disalusioned with Dimitri at this point, especially Felix, I dont think any of them want him dead/have it in their heart to betray him as that would only further perpetuate his insanity(Maybe hed try to kill every las one of THEM). In the end the BL squad is just sticking with their king whom some of them knew sience childhood rather than people they met at a boarding school and knew for a year, sure they still dont WANT to kill them but when push comes to shove, it is completley logical they chose Dimitri . They also have a very good reason to try to keep him aliveas his death means Faerghus stay under Cornelia forever sience with Dimitris passing there is no one to challange her claim and theyre all still hoping Dimitri snaps out of it once he kills Edelgard. In the end when considering all of these aspects I feel its totaly reasonable for the threeway battle to occur. You may dismiss this as just trying to justify plotholes but I feel that because this video spent a good deal of time talking about it that I felt compelled to add my two cents. Three houses is my favourite FE and I realy apreciate you guys opening up a forum for discussions with these kinds of videos. Will stay tuned for more to come!
I dno If I have this right but memory also serves me correct didn't they try to send a merchant to the alliance to mention about being allies but I think the empire caught that and they ended up dying before they could send the message if thats right that would also create some confusion as well.
If you look very closely at the first trailer for FE3H, you can see that Ashe was supposed to be in the Golden deer house. I guess it was first intended to have one character of each house play a more or less important role/ have a connection in part one of the story.
But yeah, two of the biggest issues with Three Houses were just endemic of things we already saw back in Fates. The next FE NEEDS to not have an Avatar, and it needs to not have a route split.
If the next FE game is a remake of an older one, whether a Geneology or a Binding Blade one, then I think we can rest easy on not having any of those things for one game at least (Binding Blade does have a route split but it's hardly important).
I experienced the Flame Emperor reveal via Blue Lions and it was fantastic. Honestly, Blue Lions is what I'd recommend anybody play first purely for that.
RU-vidr videos on early trailers: Ugh Dimitri is gonna be a boring Eliwood kind of lord, it's gonna be disappointing, this game is disappointing. RU-vidr videos after KILL EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM trailer: Wowowow Dimitri cool, this game cool
Overall I'd still stay Golden Deer has the more complete narrative and that's why I like it more, in the end everything feels truly resolved. But I have to say Blue Lions has a much more complex and interesting story character wise. In character development alone I believe Dimitri is basically the best Fire Emblem character ever written.
Playing Blue Lions first made me kind of disappointed in the other routes, because I thought that the pre-timeskip chapters actually were unique, at least to a small degree. I figured the story was following the same beats, but when so much of the cast is directly involved in the villains in those early chapters, such as Ashe and Lonato, Sylvain and Miklan, I really expected a different but equivalent scenario to take place during the other routes.
I disagree. It doesnt feel rushed. It feels to jam packed of content. The should have cut out one route at least. Most likely SS as to not fuck with the whole pick your lord dynamic. Maybe just cut it down to two very different unique campaigns intead of 4 highly reused ones. Dunno. I wouldnt describe the game rushed tho
@@johnathanera5863 I wouldn't call it rush BUT I think it's clear the creators were very ambitious. They WANTED to make 4+ routes with a deep story but had to compromise their perfect plan and thus ended up reusing maps. I don't think that's a bad thing. (Also to take away SS might actually be bad, because hear me out, some people can't actually stand Edelgard for her actions and might have quit the game then and there and never played it again. It sucks that suck people exist but what can you do?)
nah Dimitri is just as nuts, Claude doesn't have his VW growth either. His dialogue involving shock and care for Dimitri at Gronder in VW isn't there in AM
With the divine pulse Rodrigue thing, the way I always interpreted Divine Pulse is that if someone's 'fated' to die, you can't change their death. Which is why Jeralt is destined to died and he can't save him. Whose fated to die? Uhhh, cutscene deaths I guess. That being said , I think it's dumb that he didn't even try. Byleth should have tried over and over and failed.
My biggest issue with three houses is that certain characters probably shouldn't be recruitable to certain routes or stay with their house leader. In what world would Ingrid side with Edelgard, or Dorothea would stay with Edelgard? It just seems forced Still love the game despite its flaws
Ingrid siding with Edelgard feels like a betrayal to her whole character. Half her supports revolve around her dedication to Dimitri and the Kingdom, and being the ideal knight. I see Dorothea siding with Edelgard just because she hates the crest system & nobility too, though it's hard to believe she'd side with the war initiators bc she debatably is the one most emotionally exhausted by war. And though arguments can be made that it makes perfect sense for Felix and Sylvain to join Edelgard... it kinda hurts me as a Blue Lions fan, because these childhood friends are so tight. Felix/Dimitri's relationship is complicated, but I think it's very telling that Felix is the ONLY character in the game who has all completely different endings depending on his route. In each of his paired endings, he has a variation for AM or other routes. His fate is completely tied to the Kingdom/Dimitri's. He hates the beast he sees in Dimi, but misses his old friend who "died in duscur". He sticks by him this whole time, and in the first month after timeskip, Felix tells Byleth (with a sad portrait!) to do something about Dimitri and that they spent 5 years tracking him. He also says Rodrigue would be proud of what his sacrifice did for Dimitri (then says not to tell anyone he said that.) In other routes, especially VW, he expresses grief and regret in monastery dialogue for not being with Dimitri. It makes sense in VW, because Felix is in the neutral party and is at least regretful. But him abandoning BL to fight on Edelgard's side... doesn't feel right to me? Sylvain honestly is the easiest one I see defecting out of the childhood friends quartet, especially bc of his hatred for Crests, but him betraying all his childhood friends seem so out of character because one vital part about him is his distrust and inability to get close to anyone. His only A+ supports being Felix & Ingrid are very telling, and it's hard for me to believe he'd leave the only people he KNOWS he can trust.
Jas L Edelgard's actions has caused many innocent people to die because she believes it's a just cause. Dorothea doesn't like when people in power treat others with disdain and/or abuse said power. She cares about the common folk and her friends and the war that Edelgard started directly hurts both of those things. How I interpreted it at least. I think her hatred of nobility is overstated considering how easily she makes friends with many of her classmates that happen to be nobles. Sylvain is disliked for being fake at first and Ferdie was over a misunderstanding. Petra, Edelgard, Lindhardt, Hubert, Bernadetta, Felix, Caspar, etc are all treated fairly by her regardless of them being of different class. The blue lions have a good amount of people that any attempts to justify them joining Edelgard are far reaching at best. Crimson Flower is really the only route where it feels downright wrong to have certain characters stay. She may be relatively okay in crimson flower compared to her behavior in the other routes but it's still hard to believe some would support her. (Ingrid, Dorothea, Lindhardt, Leonie, and Mercedes being characters that I think would immediately turn on her) With all that said, I wish there were ways to capture some POVs (students) that weren't recruited earlier by defeating them with characters that have unique battle dialogue. It's just crazy to think that certain characters would actually be able to kill each other and some would probably refuse to even fight
You: Byleth can do anything when the story requires it. Like knowing the main character before siding with the house. Me: Or maybe Byleth has some experience about how peopl act. Isn't that exactly how you would think that? If not... Why?
@@mihaimercenarul7467 I’m not defending bad writing. I’m defending the logic based on how Byleth progressed (although very poorly based on the logic of writing a teacher character, avatar or not)
I though Rodrigues death was pretty stupid too, but now that I think about it was after the battle of the Battle at Gronder and the player can exhaust all of their Dp causing byleth to not have any left to save Rodrigue. However the map where Jeralt die the same can happen. Mabe the game justifican was that Gronder was a lot more tiring? Byleth also has no one to reflect with to explain the reason why because Sothis is gone and no one even knows he can use Dp. But overall I just think they didn't want to mess with it to much and come up with a stupid excuse that ruin the players immersion further.
My first playthrough was Blue Lions and I really didn't have any clue about Edelgard being the Flame Emperor. When I found out, I was freaking out in excitement because at that time so much stuff about the story was revealed and I still remember telling my mum on a walk with our dog (the only time I left the house during my first playthrough days because it was so addicting) about all the twists and how amazing the game was. Having BL be the first experience with the story and the twists was really good, it was brought to the player in an amazing way.
Well fuck me, I chose Crimson Flower first. Black Eagles for life though, no regrets here. Edelgard is a 10/10 for me. I’m probably gonna play GD next and then BL.
@@kittycatty8336 GD are my favourite of the 3 houses and BL are my least favourite (character and personality wise, not how good they are as units). Despite this though, Azure Moon (BL) is my favourite route in the game and was the most engaging story wise.
I think one reason Byleth may not have used divine pulse would be that maybe after turning back time to save Jeralt, they are maybe worried about using it and not being able to change anything.
I wouldn't say TH lowest points were below Fates quality (at least narrative wise). Completing a route and coming back immediately to do another would only fatigue you, letting some time pass between sessions would help digest it more easily. Personally I wonder what the game would've been if the resources and experience could've been used in making a definitive route or a story that switches perspectives like Radiant Dawn. Either way, I feel BL will be the route that most connect with and remember.
around 26:36 one of them starts snipping or cutting something and its really loud and distracting and does not stop for the rest of the entire video maybe dont do that dudes
Conspiracy theory time. Three houses was originaly supposed to be a BL only game where the BL were the main house, Dimitri was the main lord, El was the antagonist and the GD might or might have not existed. I don't have evidence to support this, but looking at part 1 of 3, you see how it's heavely BL focused, also IMO a lot of the missions in part 2 seem to fit them the most (probably why they have no unique maps). My theory is that during development they decided to make all the houses playable, but didn't have enough time to make complete routes for other houses so they mostly reused the BL maps. This would explain why Edelgard's route, which couldn't reuse so many maps is the shortest. Really this is all sounds a bit silly, but I don't know any other way to explain the gaps in quality between all the routes
